Bob: In the early days of his marriage, Chip Ingram says he and his wife had a lot of things they were still trying to figure out about their relationship with each other. Here is Chip.

Chip: We didn't know how to express anger, we didn't know how to communicate, and it was like I love you, you love me, you're the most committed person I've ever met to God. I'm as committed as I know how to be. So why do we make each other crazy? Why do you stuff your feelings? Why, when you're upset, I can't tell, you withdraw from me? And how do we express this and get this on the table where we can have the kind of intimacy we both want? We simply didn't know how.[ Read Full Transcript ]

Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Monday, May 14th. Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. What do you do when both of you want to make things work, but you just seem to drive each other crazy sometimes?

And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Monday edition. Let me tell you a story – this happened a number of years ago, but I've never forgotten it.

Our family got caught up in watching a summertime show called "American Juniors." It was the "American Idol" thing, but it was for kids who were, I think, 8 to 15 years old or something, and it was fun, and we enjoyed watching it. It only lasted one season.

But there was one guy on the show that we were really cheering for, and one week he came out and sang the old Frankie Limon and the Teenagers song, "Why Do Fools Fall in Love?" And my son, David, who was, I think, 8 at the time, was walking around the house all summer long singing it. You know, (sings) "Why do birds sing so gay, lovers await the break of day, why do they fall in love?"

You know, and I remember watching him do this, and I thought, "Okay, is this really the thing that I want him to grow up thinking, you know, that falling in love is for fools." I mean, do I really want him to be 18 years old and thinking, "I'm no fool. I'm never going to fall in love with anybody," you know?

Dennis: Everybody knows music has no impact on how we think about things.

Bob: Yeah, you're talking tongue-in-cheek, I know.

Dennis: Well, we have someone here who has spent a good bit of time researching how the culture is creating our view of romantic love.

Bob: And he's no fool, either.

Dennis: He isn't. Chip Ingram joins us on FamilyLife Today. Chip, you're no fool, are you?

Chip: I'm trying not to be. I have a track record where others could argue it in places.

Dennis: And Chip's wondering why am I in this studio doing this right now? Well, Chip is the CEO and President of Walk Through the Bible in Atlanta, Georgia. He has undoubtedly has a voice that many of our listeners recognize. He has his own radio program, "Living on the Edge."

He has just written a book called "Love, Sex and Lasting Relationships." I like that title, because I think that's what people are looking for. He and his wife, Theresa, have a lasting relationship of more than 25 years. They have four children and having read about the story in your book, Chip, I have to ask you to tell our listeners how you met Theresa and, just, God's great story of redemption. I just enjoyed this story. It's a great story.

Chip: Well, we met – I was leading a campus ministry, teaching, coaching, there was a bricklayer trained by the Navigators who put me under his wing for about seven or eight years, and we just believed that everyone is to make disciples. I never dreamed of vocational ministry, so I was getting up early, coaching, teaching, and Theresa came to one of our – we called them "rallies." We'd open up this guy's living room and have, literally, 150 college kids take out all the furniture.

And she came, and we met, and the first time she came, she had these two little boys with blue pajamas with the feet in them, you know, like two years old, and I thought, "This is unusual that this girl babysitting, obviously, is bringing these kids here."

And soon I found out that she wasn't babysitting. They were her kids, and I was attracted to her, and since I was leading the ministry I didn't get romantically involved and in – with any relationships. And she got in a Bible study, we became friends, and I started to really pray God would bring a man into her life. I saw the needs of those kids.

She was abandoned, was married to someone that was drug dealing on the side and eventually got involved in another relationship that went on for a year, and she didn't know about it, and back in those days, his friends actually came and testified on the grounds of adultery.

Pretty stiff laws back then, and she cried out to God and was in the midst of that. Then some twins were born, and then he left. So they never knew their dad and in that crisis she came to Christ. And so I met here – I guess the boys were two and a half, so she was about three years old in the Lord, and she knew God like few people that I knew.

Dennis: When did you first – well, realize that there was more than just an attraction to pray for her that a man would care for her and you began to think, "You know what? I'd like to go out on a date with her?"

Chip: Well, actually, I was in Caracas, Venezuela, and I was on a ministry basketball team sharing Christ, 23, 24, praying about the future and asking God, "Lord, I'm tired of cooking suppers, and I'm discipling people, and I want to meet someone to do life with."

Dennis: Bob's not a good cook, either.

Chip: That's right, and I just meant I wanted a family, and I began to pray, and I asked God, "Would you please show me?" And, literally, the spirit of God prompted, "What about Theresa?" I said, "Well, not Theresa, she's got kids." "Well, okay. So what about Theresa, don't they need a dad?" "Well, yeah, I've asked you about it." "Would you be willing to sign up for that?" And it was, like, "No."

And then my heart just turned, and I just realized all the qualities I was looking for in a woman – she was very pretty and very attractive, but by God's grace, I put all that on hold. I said, "No way, I'm not going there." And it was in Caracas, Venezuela, something happened.

I wrote her a letter the next day and then all during that trip something – I actually "fell in love" while we were apart. Got on a plane, I landed, drove directly from the airport to her house, and then we started dating in a very – she would say dating. We never dated. All we did was read the Bible and sing songs, and I came from a background where we probably were a little – we pushed it to the extreme at times in not getting romantically involved, and so I moved very slowly.

But God really honored it, and we did an amazing thing.

Bob: You had some counselors, some folks who said to you, "Chip, God's marked your life. He's going to use you in ministry. This wouldn't be good for you to do."

Chip: Yeah, especially, think back 25 years ago what divorce in any circles – now, was she abandoned? Yes. Was it by an unbeliever? Yes. Was it on the ground of adultery? Yes. And yet it was – I had people say, "Well, yes, the Bible does say that, but He'll never use your life. I mean, there are certain mission organizations that will never take you, and He's got His hand on your life. You can't go there.

And so I really prayed. You talk about studying a passage – I read every book on the issue, and I came to the point where I realized, you know, I've got to stand before the judgment seat of Christ, and I have to decide before God what's right regardless of what people say.

And we had a pure relationship, so I didn't have any sense of if I backed out it would be guilt, or I hadn't defiled her or defrauded anyone, and I asked God for the courage to make the right decision, and He very clearly led us together, and I think now we can look back and say God did not choose, did not use our life together, and I have two grown kids. Those two little boys are now 28, almost 29. One is in full-time music in Nashville touring the country and writing songs for Christian artists; the other is leading a ministry in Santa Cruz and works full time as a physical therapist, and God added two more – a third son and a daughter.

So it's been – I'm not going to tell you it's been easy. Those people that have blended families, those people that have been through hurts, within a couple of years – while I was in seminary, actually, we both had so much baggage that, you know, when you're making $1,200 a month, and you spend 90 bucks a week during one season of seminary for counseling, you recognize you have a need. But it's the best 10 or 12 sessions ever. I didn't know.

And there are lots of issues, but Christ being the center was number one; realizing there are no Plan Bs, number two, it's a covenant; and then, number three, realizing, you know, God specializes in redeeming. And we're teaching on love, sex, and lasting relationships, and, you know, it's almost, really, Dennis, like, if God can do this for us, I don't know where you're at, but you're a candidate. You know, if he can produce kids who love God out of this baggage –

Dennis: You know, that was what hit me as I read your story in your book. God is all about redemption, and there are a lot of listeners right now who have just heard your story, longing for a life that is marked by the Redeemer. That redemption that says "You are useful. I do have a plan. I can use you." That really is the story of the Scriptures. I mean, it's about sinners who are made right with God through Jesus Christ, and because of our faith we place in Him, He makes us new people. It's all about Him, it's not about us, but He begins to use us for His purposes.

When did you realize in your marriage with Theresa that He really had something special for you to accomplish? Was it right after seminary or was it later on in your pastorate?

Chip: I think it was watching going through the process and realizing we had a lot of – we didn't know how to express anger, we didn't know how to communicate, and by express anger, we weren't yellers and screamers, we didn't have some big marriage problem, it was like I love you, you love me, you're the most committed person I've ever met to God. I'm as committed as I know how to be. So why do we make each other crazy? Why do you stuff your feelings? Why, when you're upset, I can't tell you withdraw from me? And how do we express this and get this on the table where we can have the kind of intimacy we both want? We simply didn't know how.

And one thing we are, we're teachable, and we set aside a day a week for a date, and I don't know how many books we've read together, and I can't tell you how many of those get away for a weekend that you all talk about, that we do. I can't tell you how many tapes we've listened to in the car.

And we worked – and to tell you the truth, right now, we still work. Friday mornings, I still eat breakfast every week with my wife, we still date. And this book is a picture of maybe learning things the hard way, and then my wife has such compassion for people who struggle. She has such mercy because she's been through such pain, and because of that, we've been involved with scores and scores of couples who I watch believe lies, try and do life apart from God, suffer immeasurable pain and consequences, and I just – it breaks my heart.

And even believers – as believers, if you buy that, and you're not feeling very fulfilled, guess what comes to your mind? "I guess I made the wrong decision."

Dennis: It's the wrong person.

Chip: It's the wrong person.

Dennis: So I'll make a better choice next time.

Chip: Right, exactly.

Dennis: I'm smarter now.

Chip: And God will understand. He's a God of grace, right? He doesn't take this covenant stuff really seriously.

Dennis: Yes, I'll select a better person. This time there will be a better plan. There's no different plan – same plan, wrong person, divorce them. That's why we're meeting more and more people in the culture who have been divorced three, four, or more times.

Bob: I was talking with a single mom, a woman who had been abandoned by her husband, and she said to me – I'd been teaching on divorce and remarriage out of Matthew, chapter 5, and she came up afterwards, and she said, "Here is my circumstance." She said, "Do you think I'm free to remarry?" And I said, "I don't think that's really the issue at this point." I said, "The issue at this point is all of the hurt, all that you've been through, have you dealt with that? Have you approached the subject of reconciliation with your former mate?"

I said, "I'm not necessarily talking about the two of you getting back together as a married couple, but have you dealt with forgiveness? Have you dealt with trying to repair?" I said, "If you don't deal with those things, then the next relationship is just going to be a new soil bed for all of those weeds to reemerge. It's not going to fix anything until you deal with those issues."

That was hard because there's loneliness in her voice. She's asking the question because she's longing for companionship and yet, Chip, if you don't deal with those issues, you're not going to find the fulfillment you're looking for even if you find another person.

Chip: I've got a great story to tell you, if you want to hear it, right along this line, because some people were asking, "Love, Sex, Lasting Relationships" how do I really get it, and, you know, what I've learned is there's a lot of "unbelievers" and people not going to church that are listening to us right now.

And, you know, is this going to be that religious stuff where they'll just say "Jesus plus something," and I'm going to have this great relationship. Do these people understand me?

And one of the chapters I actually teach through exactly what you were doing. We ended up with a tremendous divorce recovery program. So sometimes 60 percent, 70 percent of the people were unbelievers because a judge in town told all the people, a divorce judge, "If you want to get real help, that Santa Cruz Bible Church is the best place to go. That's all I know. I can't recommend it, church and state, but I'm telling you, if you want help, I don't know what they're doing over there, but people get straightened up."

And so we have this flood of people twice a year. So they did a lot of great stuff and then about week number 6 they asked me to come in. Well, you can imagine, I'm an unbeliever, now the pastor's coming, and so I asked him, "What and how did you learn to build relationships, I mean, romantic relationships?" And they kind of looked at each other. I mean, "Where did you do it? How does it work? And, by the way, is it working for you?"

And the looks on their faces were, you know, their arms are crossed and where is this going to come from? I said, "Could I just be candid, a little earthy with you and tell you how you've done it? This is how I learned." And I said, "It starts out with the physical, doesn't it? You go to a bar, or you go around a corner, or it's in the office cubicle, and the physical is, 'Hey, I'm a guy. I'm looking for that tight skirt, the tight this, a little cleavage here, the real tight sweater, little chemicals go off and say I want to meet her."

Or if you're a gal, it used to be the strong chin and the deep voice and now it's the tight jeans and so what do you do? You start the dance, and it's totally around the physical issues.

Well, then, if you can hook up a little bit, you move to the emotional, and something starts to buzz inside, and you have these feelings, and if you can get that moving a little bit, you may sleep together, in our culture, that night, you might wait a couple of days, or you might take a couple of weeks or so, but it goes from physical to emotional lock and then your brain cells go dead.

You have these feelings you haven't had, you spend money you don't have, your friends and people say you've lost your mind, what are you doing, and you say, "It's love." You know, and so if that continues then what do you do? Then you start to move into each other's social circles. So it's physical, emotional, social, and then some of your friends and family say, "That guy is bad for you." And you say, "Oh, no, couldn't be," you know, these great feelings. Or you might listen a little bit.

So it's sort of a quantifying factor, and if enough of you friends and family say, "Hm, maybe this will work," then and only then do you move to the really psychological character issues – start to get to know one another, family background, and if it still clicks then, by this time, the majority of people in America are living with each other, and they're testing driving this out.

They don't know the stats that now all the – you know, this is not a good thing for your marriage, it's not a good thing for your sex life, on and on and on, and then they say, "Well, you know something? Everybody, no matter what they say, they want a sense of permanence. And so let's make it spiritual. So let's find a rabbi or a priest or a minister, a pastor, whatever you call them, and let's get" – and then when they have the wedding, it's amazing.

They want church, want the organ, want the white dress, want the – you know? And as I'm saying this, I've got the whole room nodding with me, going – I said, "Now, is that how you do relationships?" And they all said, "Exactly." I said, "That's exactly how I learned, too." And as I wrote them, I wrote them in a way backwards, and I made a little pyramid. And it was an upside-down pyramid.

Then what I did is I took that pyramid, and I flipped it right side up, and I said, "Now that's one way to do relationships." And, excuse me, the name of this is "Divorce Recovery," and my goal is how to grow through divorce. That way doesn't work. Would you be open to me talking to you about a way that really works? Because what do you want? And I mean, these people, there are some tears now.

I said, "Don't you want to look into someone's eyes and have acceptance and love and intimacy? And then don't you want to know, with a sense of, I mean, this person is only for you and freedom and no guilt and no baggage where you express the physically, and it's great, and then if that ever occurs, don't you want it to just last forever?"

And everyone is nodding their head going, "Yes." And so then I said, "Okay." And so now they gave me permission as the pastor, and I talked about what you guys, the heart of your ministry is – spiritually, how do you connect and look for character? How do you become the right person? And our dream is to help people do it differently.

Bob: That's really what you've tried to point folks to in this book.

Chip: It really is.

Bob: You wrote this for unbelievers.

Chip: You know what? It really is. But, you know, to be honest, maybe I shouldn't say this, but I will. You guys are laughing and singing songs, I guess I can say whatever I want, is I don't mean this critically, but the average unbeliever and the average believer think exactly the same way. And what they're not going to get is a long finger-pointing, bad boy, bad girl, you really messed up in the past. They're going to hear a God whose heart is broken saying, "I know you want lasting love and great sex and real intimacy, and you know something? You're going about it all wrong. Would you please listen to me?"

And so it really is written, in many ways, for unbelievers, but there are so many believers who are living the same way. The unfortunate fact is, it will probably be as much or greater help to them.

Dennis: The interesting thing is we, as Christians, have the answers. Our God created marriage. He is the one who lays out that pyramid, like you talked about, Chip, of, first of all, becoming the right person, rightly related to Him, growing as a Christian, learning how to grow spiritually, then learning how to help another person grow spiritually in an intimate relationship called marriage.

The problem is the Christian community just doesn't get it that we have one of the greatest opportunities today to lead people to Christ around failed marriages and families, perhaps in our nation's history – the family next door, the guy at work or the gal at work that you know who is about to split because they have no hope.

And, you know, a book like this provides a great way to put some quality solutions and literature in the hands of people who are hopeless, who didn't get married to destroy another person. They got married for intimacy, just like all of us did. But they didn't know the God who created it and don't know how to make it work.

And they just need someone coming alongside them, Bob, who will explain it to them in very clear, crisp language that's not religious.

Bob: Well, and I think that's where we can help, rather than just sitting quietly by and thinking, "Boy, isn't that a shame? It's too bad this is happening," and then going on with your life and ignoring the situation. You can do something.

You can get a copy of the book that Chip has written, which is called "Love, Sex and Lasting Relationships, God's Prescription for Enhancing Your Love Life," and it's exactly that kind of a book, Dennis, that you can give to someone who is not a believer, and, I mean, who wouldn't want to read God's prescription for enhancing your life? For that matter, which believer wouldn't want to read that as well?

Got to our website, FamilyLife.com, and click the red button that says "Go" in the middle of the screen. That will take you right to an area of the website where you can get more information about the book by Chip Ingram, "Love, Sex and Lasting Relationships." Other resources that are available from us here at FamilyLife including the classic book from Elisabeth Elliott, "Passion and Purity."

You think about both of these books, they'd be great for singles to read either before they begin dating relationships or at a point where they're ready to make some adjustments in maybe how they've been doing it. Again, we've got both books in our FamilyLife Resource Center.

You can go online at FamilyLife.com, you click the red button the home page that says "Go." It's right in the middle of the home page, and that will take you to the area of the site where you can order copies of either one of those or both of these books, and if you're interested in both books, we'll send along at no additional cost the CD audio that features our conversation this week with Chip Ingram.

Again, the website is FamilyLife.com. If it's easier, call us at 1-800-FLTODAY. That's 1-800-358-6329, 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY, and we'll make arrangements to get the resources you need sent out to you.

You know, there is something that we are excited about here at FamilyLife that I wanted to make sure our listeners are aware of, Dennis. We've had a group of friends of our ministry who have come together this year to encourage FamilyLife Today listeners to join with them and help support the ministry. They have agreed that during the month of May, they are going to match any donations we receive on a dollar-for-dollar basis.

So if a listener sends us $25, that's going to be matched with their donation of $25. If you send $50, they'll match it with a $50 contribution and so on, and they'll do that all the way up to a total of $475,000, which means that we need as many of our listeners as possible, during the month of May, to make as generous a donation as you can for the ministry of FamilyLife Today. If you can do that, that donation will be doubled, and we'll be able to take full advantage of this matching gift opportunity.

You can donate online at FamilyLife.com, click the "Donate" button and fill out the form there, or call 1-800-FLTODAY to make your donation and, in either case, again, it will be matched on a dollar-for-dollar basis and, of course, any donation you make to FamilyLife Today is tax deductible.

So we hope to hear from you this month, and we hope you won't wait until the end of the month to make your donation. I hope you can go online today and donate at FamilyLife.com or give us a call again – 1-800-FLTODAY.

And I want to make sure to say thank you to those of you who are able to help support the ministry. We appreciate your partnership with us.

Well, tomorrow, Chip Ingram is going to be back with us. We're going to continue to talk about real relationships and what needs to be at the foundation of a healthy relationship. In fact, I want to find out what Chip's definition of love is. So we'll talk about that tomorrow, I hope you can be with us for that.

I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We'll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ.