Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Monday, July 20. Our host is the President of FamilyLife Dennis Rainey and I’m Bob Lepine. You may have heard Ron Blue offer that kind of financial counsel before, but odds are you need to hear him remind you again! Right? Stay tuned!
Welcome to FamilyLife Today thanks for joining us. We’re going to talk about money today. You and Barbara ever have any money fights in your marriage?
Dennis: Now, what kind of question is that?
Bob: You know we all have fights! I’m just wondering if there were ever…
Dennis: Of course! Of course!
(laughter)
A clash of values in savings and spending and you name it, we’ve had the discussion about it.
Bob: Do you lean in one direction or another?
Dennis: Do you want me to declare this publicly?
Bob: I want to know who’s the thriftier among you?
Dennis: You know honestly I would have to say Barbara really has done a pretty good job over the years, but as we’ve moved into this new season of life, I’m a little thriftier than she is. I’m kind of squeezing George and he’s weaving – you know?
(laughter)
She believes – she wants to put a smile on George’s face. You know, she wants to spend him!
Bob: We were out to eat the other night, and I left a generous tip for our waiter. In fact it was an extremely generous tip. In this particular situation, I tipped 40 percent!
Dennis: Oh my goodness!
Bob: Yes I did.
Dennis: Wow!
Bob: My wife looked at me, and she said, “40 percent?” I said, “Well honey, the waiter was our son”!
(laughter)
Dennis: I was waiting for the rest of the story!
Bob: She’s going, I know but it’s still 40 percent!
Dennis: Yes!
Bob: Make him earn it!
Dennis: In fact I remember a story our guest on today’s program – Ron Blue. Ron joins us on FamilyLife Today. Ron, didn’t you give a guy or a young lady a tip at Chick-Fil-A one time?
Bob: Oh, I remember this story: it’s a great one!
Ron: Yes! I used to have breakfast at Chick-Fil- A with my son and would always order the same thing. This Hispanic lady always waited on us, and when we would walk in she would serve us with a smile, she’d have our breakfast ready, and I was walking out of the restaurant one day and I said, “You know you tip people in restaurants, why don’t we tip fast food people?” I couldn’t think of a good reason so I reached in my billfold and pulled out a 20. The Lord said, “Almost verbally – audibly said, “You cheapskate”!
(laugh)
I had a lot of 20’s in my billfold. So, I folded up five 20’s, and went back in and said, “Can you accept tips?” She said, “Sure”! So, I gave her a hundred dollars.
A week or so later, I was back in and she thanked me for the gift, and she said, “You know when you gave that to me I needed a new set of tires, and so I was feeling very blessed that you did that”, but she said, “When my daughter got home from high school and found out there had been an apartment fire and somebody had lost everything in their apartment,” she said “ I thought they needed the hundred dollars worse than I did.”
Bob: Wow!
Ron: So she said, “We gave it to them.”
Dennis: Yes.
Ron: I learned a lot of lessons!
Bob: Yes.
Ron: You know I gave out of my abundance.
Dennis: Yes – really!
Ron: She gave out of her poverty.
Bob: Yes.
Dennis: I think that’s a message for today frankly.
Ron: Oh my goodness.
Dennis: For our generation… I wonder how much truly sacrificial giving occurs even within the Christian community: the community of faith. Which ought to demonstrate sacrificial giving if anybody should.
Ron Blue for those who do not know is the founder and president of Kingdom Advisors, which is really a ministry of financial planners that are better equipped to divert God’s money to kingdom work instead of other endeavors. That’s kind of my definition of what you do.
You like it?
Ron: It’s my definition too! It’s symptomatic of the real thing.
Dennis: He’s all about giving!
Bob: Your staff is working with folks who have their assets that are trying to figure out what do we do with our money, and you’re trying to help them think through not just where’s the smartest place to get the best return on investment, but what are the value decisions that guide those choices, right?
Ron: Yes, I think what I have found is the key to financial freedom is not an amount of money ever; it’s a heart attitude and belief. God’s word speaks to this: the only way really to achieve financial freedom is to give – we force our hands open, and then God has an opportunity to use that money. Just like that lady I gave $100 dollars to.
I have been ministered to more by that gift than I can imagine. I’ve shared that story with a lot of people. That was multiplied. That’s a real sense of freedom when you learn how to give and nobody that I know that has accumulated wealth can experience financial freedom apart from giving.
Bob: Ron we talk about giving in this current economic environment
Ron: Right!
Bob: With everything that we’ve been going through, and then there are young couples who are listening who are going well, we hope someday to be at a place where we can give, but we’ve got to get student loans taken care of, we’ve got to get the credit cards paid off. This is a time where giving seems like one of those noble goals that is way out there in the future, and someday we hope to get there.
Ron: Well, it’s true! I think one of the things that everybody needs to have is a sense of perspective. The first economic meltdown was Joseph. That’s recorded in the Bible – the famine: seven years of plenty, and seven years of famine. That’s an economic meltdown. That was their currency that was their wealth. You find famine and wars, economic turmoil all throughout scripture. So, what we’re going through is difficult for the time, but it’s nothing like what has been experienced over the last two, three, four thousand years.
Dennis: Yet, for a young couple starting out their marriage who may have started their family in the midst of a lot of debt
Ron: Yes.
Dennis: And not having the advantage of the perspective you are talking about where they’ve talked about an overall game plan for their money: how they are going to approach debt, how they’re going to approach savings. You really talk about this in your book Surviving Financial Meltdown. This is really where couples are today though, where should they start? What’s the beginning for them?
Ron: Well, I know that you know my message is that there is four Biblical principles: spend less than you earn, avoid the use of debt, save for the long term and the unexpected, and set long term goals. Then, I would add a fifth, and that is that God owns it all, and to understand that.
That was testimony that I gave to a congressional sub-committee back in the early 90’s, and Senator Dodd was the one that asked me the question. I gave him that answer, and he said to me “It seems like that would work in any income level?” I said, “You’re right Senator, including the United States Government.”
Dennis: Yes!
Ron: Those are four Biblical principles, and as we’ve been going through this economic turmoil this is what typically happens. The interviewer will say, “How would you avoid this?” I’d say, “Well, spend less than you earn, avoid the use of debt, and so forth. He’d say, “Yes, yes, but I didn’t do that- now what do I do?”
Well, spend less than you earn, you’ve got to get on a budget, you’ve got to get out of debt, you’ve got to set some savings aside, and you’ve got to set some long term goals, and I would say, “Increase your giving.” The principles don’t change! Just because I’m in financial difficulty doesn’t mean that there are different principles. They’re the same principles to avoid the problems, to get out of the problems, and when I have a surplus, or when I have a deficit those are the four Biblical principles.
Dennis: When do you tell a couple to cut up their credit cards? If they are in debt starting out their family and maybe this meltdown has impacted them negatively at what point should they pull out a pair of shears or scissors and cut them and whack them in half?
Ron: Right now! I mean if they are in debt trouble. Incidentally though credit cards never got anybody into problems. It’s the person holding their credit card that got them into problems.
Dennis: Yes.
Ron: I look at credit card debt as symptomatic. It’s symptomatic of a violation of a Biblical principle someplace. For example, it may be greed: I want something that I really can’t afford.
It may be poor communication between a husband and a wife: I’ll show him, or I’ll show her! It may be fear: fear of the economy or whatever, and I feel better when I spend. It may be poor communication between a husband and wife – there are a lot of things that cause the credit card debt. It may be a lack of self-discipline. All of those are spiritual issues.
So debt is just symptomatic of something else that is going on, which is why FamilyLife Ministries is such a critical ministry. You are dealing with husband and wife communication at its very core. I found out generally that’s why people are in trouble.
Dennis: Generally we are trying to practice what we are preaching to the couples. FamilyLife doesn’t have any debt.
Ron: Right!
Dennis: We pay our bills off as they become due.
Bob: If we don’t have the money, we don’t go out and spend it.
Dennis: Yes!
Ron: Well, and I happen to know also, that when you got started, when we saw what was happening economically that you cut your expenses.
Dennis: Oh, Yes!
Ron: Which was a very prudent, practical, wise thing to do.
Dennis: So, a young couple like we are talking about here. Where would you encourage them to look at cutting expenses? It seems like this whole culture is an entitlement generation, where we feel like we deserve all the electronic media, we deserve all the access to all the fun and games, and it’s difficult to know where to start to cut.
Ron: Well, you know back in October of ’08 when we saw this economy starting to go south, Judy and I took a look at our budget, and we said, “Is there a place we can cut – do we need all this telephone service?” We looked at our cell phones, we looked at cable TV: do we really need what we are buying on cable TV? We cut that! We cut our clothes budget; we cut our eating out budget. We cut our vacation and entertainment budget; these were all nice things, but they were really discretionary when you got down to it. We cut our budget 25 percent. Which means that we were overspending probably 25 percent at least before we started cutting.
Bob: That’s a good exercise for a couple to do!
Ron: Anybody!
Bob: Once a year, not in the middle of an economic downturn or challenge.
Dennis: Right- right!
Bob: Just stop and ask the question: are we using this, do we need this? It’s easy for that stuff to just kind of creep in and become a part of your monthly expenses without any scrutiny going on.
Ron: You get sloppy on it, and with credit cards it’s so easy to buy things. Earlier on in my career professionally I had counseled people to pay cash. It makes a lot of difference when you put out 30 or 40 dollars for gasoline for example. You think a little differently when you turn on the air-conditioning when you drive, and so forth.
Bob: Rather than just swiping the card!
Ron: Just rather than swiping the card, and pay cash when you eat out. Pay cash at the grocery store. Now that sounds impractical in today’s credit card society, and I think you need to do that until you establish some boundaries!
Dennis: Yes!
Ron: That’s a good thing to practice!
Dennis: I think of the book of Ecclesiastes. Solomon said, “He liked the vineyard, so he went and bought it. He liked the palace so he got a palace. He liked horses so he got a whole stable full.” He accumulated more wealth than any person who’d ever lived before him.
I think this culture that is full of advertisements, always trying to convince us that what we have is not enough, and that we need these services, this entertainment, or this possession – I can be gullible! It’s amazing how in my mind I can be walking down an aisle and say, “You know I’d like to have that!”
(laugh)
You know, I can justify that.
Ron: That’s right!
Dennis: Then you can always find someone to compare yourself to who has it.
(laughter)
I’m just amazed at my rational thinking on this thing, and before long if I’m impulsive and not disciplined I’ll go get it, and then I’ll regret it!
Ron: Yes.
Dennis: Especially if it’s paid for with a credit card which I pay off of course. But, nonetheless the impulsive purchase can easily be made at that point.
Bob: Let me ask you though, there’s some folks Ron, who would look at what you are recommending and saying if Americans did what Ron Blue wants us to do, you want to talk about an economic meltdown? Our whole economic system is built on Dennis getting out the credit card, buying what he wants.
Dennis: Yes.
Bob: This is how we have what we have in this country and if we go to the four Biblical principles Ron Blue is suggesting we’re going to be in a world of hurt!
Ron: Absolutely – that is true! If we went to a saving and investing economy eventually we’d be better off, but it would take a long time to get there, and there would be a lot of pain in getting there.
I tell people this; I know that most of the people that hear me or read my books are not going to practice those four principles. But, enough are that they are then prepared for any type of meltdown or any type of adversity. You don’t know when you are going to lose your job! If you have three to six months in your savings, and you have no debt other than maybe a mortgage you are prepared as you can possibly be. That is a good position to be in!
I would rather be on the lending side than the borrowing side. If I overspend a thousand dollars a year that’s 40,000 over a working life: ages 25 to 65, the lender if he makes 12 percent on that 1,000 dollars a year has made a million dollars off of me.
If I take a 2,000 dollar credit card bill and pay the minimum payments: 2,000 dollar credit card bill is not that much: it will take me 32 years to pay it off, and I will have paid 10,000 dollars back: 8,000 dollars in interest in order to borrow 2,000. See that just rationally doesn’t make any sense. So, yes our economy might collapse, but I’d rather be on that side of running my life according to Biblical principles, because I will have done all that I can to provide for my self and my family.
Bob: I think it’s Proverbs 6 where it talks about the ant and how the ant is doing what Ron Blue says an ant ought to do. He’s making sure that there is some set aside, and he’s being prudent. He’s being thoughtful. You’re saying if we all became ants we’d have some hardship for a while and then things would work out. The reality is we aren’t all going to become ants are we?
Ron: No, and the reason is that we live in a world that’s fallen, and there is a sin nature out there. I’ve read the book of Revelation, and it’s not a pretty site until you get to Revelation 21 and 22. So, I know the end of the story and I think what Jesus said to the church at Laodecea: he said, “You know you think you are rich, and you’re not. You think you see, and you’re not.”
Then he says, “Behold I stand at the door and knock, and if any man hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him.” We use it as an evangelistic verse, which is appropriate, but it’s really written to Christian’s, and Jesus is saying, “I’m all you need, none of this other stuff is going to provide anything you are looking for:” contentment, joy, peace, any security, none of that comes from your possessions.
Dennis: So, if you were sitting down with a young couple who were just starting out as we talked about here, what would be your advice to them other than very clearly stay out of debt, and don’t get in over your head, and avoid consumer debt like the plague. Where else would you suggest that they focus their efforts as they begin their marriage and family?
Ron: I would say, “They should be living off of a budget, I’ll call it a spending plan.” “They should plan their expenses before they spend them. So that if they have 1,000 dollars for a vacation in their budget – spending plan, they are free to spend the 1,000. They don’t have to feel guilty about that and they’ve planned for it.”
So, they should have a budget, they should be saving money: a little bit anyway out of money that comes in, so that they have some margin for error: the car repair, the medical expense, the accident, whatever it may be, they have some money set aside. If they have a budget, and they are committed to paying off their credit cards every month on time, and if they are saving some, they are doing all that they can do, and they are doing it well.
Dennis: Ron, you said something in there that I want to underline. You talked about if there is a car that breaks down, or an accident, or a health issue, you didn’t mention job loss, but that could occur in there as well. Most people aren’t prepared to handle these unexpected crises, and as a result their financial experience over a lifetime just moves from one crisis to another.
Ron: Absolutely!
Dennis: They are constantly playing defense and don’t ever go on the offense. I can’t imagine what that would feel like!
Ron: That’s one of the reasons that money is listed as a prime cause of divorce. It’s really not money, but it’s the lack of self-discipline, it’s the lack of communication, because you eventually get to a point of absolute being terrified. You don’t want to open the mail; you don’t want to talk to your spouse, or your family. It is a devastating thing to be financially…
Dennis: On the brink!
Ron: On the brink! Now some people are going to live on the brink by their vocational choice, or whatever, but they can still follow the principles, and that’s all that they can do, and they can do all that they can do.
Dennis: I started today out by sending I Timothy chapter 6, verse 6 through 10 to a friend. It’s all about not falling in love with money, but pursuing godliness and being content. That’s a hard choice for all of us to make on an ongoing basis, but it really is good to revisit the scripture frequently to find out what does the Bible have to say about money, about pursuing wealth and riches?
There are a lot of cautions in the Bible about this, and I think we need to pay heed to that. There are also some great authors like Ron Blue, and his book Surviving Financial Meltdown that can also help us in making good decisions in an economic crisis.
Bob: It doesn’t have to be a global economic crisis; it can be a personal financial meltdown that you are facing because of the loss of a job, or because of unexpected expenses. This book can help guide you through any financial challenge you are facing as a family by bringing you back to the core principles that will help you survive whatever financial challenge you are facing personally.
We have copies of the book in our FamilyLife Today Resource Center along with Larry Burkett’s Family Financial Workbook. I know Ron, this is a book you’ve recommended to a lot of couples with a lot of worksheets in it to help couples get their spending plan put together, to help them figure out just exactly how they are going to deal with their financial challenges.
Again, we have both books in our FamilyLife Today Resource Center, and you can get more information about how to receive these books when you go to our website FamilyLifeToday.com, again, it’s FamilyLifeToday.com. You can also call for more information about these resources at 1-800-FLTODAY, 1-800-358-6329, and when you get in touch with us we’ll let you know how you can have either or both of these books sent to you.
This issue of money in a marriage, and in a family is one of the things that causes a lot of conflict between husbands and wives. Just because a man and woman have their financial situation worked out doesn’t mean they are not going to experience challenges in other areas of their marriage.
We have recently printed a laminated card that you can tuck away in your Bible or in a book that you are reading; keep it in your briefcase or in your purse, where we list Dennis and Barbara Rainey’s Five Essentials for a Thriving Marriage. Our thought was to have this card available on an ongoing basis, will help keep you focused on what is essential for a marriage to really grow and thrive and to be all that God wants for it to be.
This month we are sending out the five essentials for a thriving marriage card to those of you who are able to help support the ministry of FamilyLife Today with a donation of any amount. Your support of this ministry is critical to keep us on the air in this city and in other cities all across the country. You help provide for the production and the syndication costs of this daily radio program, and we couldn’t do it without you.
If you are able to help with a donation of any amount this month, we want to invite you to request a copy of the Five Essentials for a Thriving Marriage card. If you are donating on-line at FamilyLifeToday.com you will see a key code box on the on-line donation form, just type the word “thrive” in that key code box so we will know to send you a copy of this card when you make your donation.
Or, call 1-800-FLTODAY, 1-800-358-6329. You can make a donation over the phone and just mention that you would like the five essentials card, or the card for a thriving marriage. Again we are happy to send that out to you as our way of saying thank you for your support of this ministry. We so much appreciate your partnership with us, and it’s always great to hear from you.
Tomorrow Ron Blue is going to join us back here. We are going to continue talking about what we need to do as husbands and wives to keep our budget balanced at home, and we are going to talk about what we do if we find ourselves in real financial trouble. I hope you can join us for that.
I want to thank our engineer today Keith Lynch and our entire broadcast production team on behalf of our host Dennis Rainey I’m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.
FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.
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