Bob: And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us on the Monday edition, Monday, October 13th. Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine and, Dennis, this is a difficult subject to wade into. I remember back when this program was first getting started, we did a series on the subject of emotional affairs, emotional adultery, and I think it was because of an article you had just read, wasn't it?
Dennis: Well, I'd read an article, but I'd talked to a number of both men and women who had been trapped, first of all, in an emotional affair before they ever experienced a full-blown affair with the opposite sex.
Bob: And it's something that, frankly, all of us are vulnerable to.
Dennis: It is, and we have a guest on FamilyLife Today who – well, as you welcomed her earlier, Bob, before we came on the air, you told her thanks for writing her book, "The Enticement of the Forbidden," and she said, "Oh, I just was being obedient." And you said, "Yes, but it takes courage to be obedient." The author of that book, "Enticement of the Forbidden," is Judy Starr, and she is a fellow staff member along with me with Campus Crusade for Christ. Judy, welcome to FamilyLife Today.
Judy: Thank you, it's great to be here.
Dennis: Judy and her husband, Stottler, have served on Campus Crusade for Christ's staff – well, I guess, you, since 1986; Stottler goes way back.
Judy: Way back.
Dennis: Further than that, huh?
Judy: Quite a ways – 33 years, I believe.
Dennis: About the same number of years that I've been on Crusade's staff. But you currently serve with the Jesus film. Now, for those who aren't aware of this outreach of Campus Crusade for Christ, this is where the video of the story of the life of Christ is being shown either on film or by video around the world making it the most-viewed film in history.
Bob: This has been an invaluable tool for missionaries in every culture from a variety of missions organizations but, Judy, you and your husband travel with teams that go into cities or into rural areas and show this to folks, is that right?
Judy: We do some of that as well as working with the national directors, helping them strategize in how best to reach their countries.
Dennis: And you were showing this film in the Caribbean?
Judy: That's right.
Dennis: On a spiritual mission with your husband, evangelizing the lost, when you had the enticement of the forbidden?
Judy: That's right. The unthinkable happened in our marriage.
Bob: Take us back, when was this, how long ago?
Judy: This was about six years ago now.
Bob: And you were going for a couple of weeks to the Caribbean, not a bad assignment, right?
Judy: Actually, it was a four-month project, where we began from the lower part of the Caribbean in Granada, all the way through the top islands, through the Bahamas, showing the Jesus film by boat from island-to-island, stopping along the way.
Bob: This sounds like a four-month-long honeymoon with your husband.
Judy: Well, it should have been, but it didn't quite turn out that way.
Bob: What happened?
Judy: When I actually was preparing for the project, we had just come back from a very difficult translation project in India, and I came back exhausted. It was a challenge doing that project – and had to turn right around and immediately begin preparing for this boat project, which, logistically, was quite difficult to put together. So I was working very long hours, working late at night, and I would get up in the morning, and to maximize my time, I started skipping time with the Lord, because we were on this deadline to get this thing done.
So when I arrived at the project in the Caribbean, I arrived with somewhat of a hardened heart spiritually, because I just had not kept my relationship with the Lord current, and when I arrived there, it didn't take long to realize that there was a real draw and an enticement between the captain of this boat and myself. It was very obvious that we had quite a connection. He was athletic, I'm athletic; he was a former professional musician, so am I; and so forth. So we just began spending a lot of time talking personally, and there were things that I should have done that I know now in hindsight are great protectors for our marriage, but I chose not to do that.
Dennis: What did you do? Did you go out of your way to try to find times to spend with him?
Judy: I did. We needed to work one-on-one a lot on the project, anyway, just on the sailing itinerary and so forth, but I would spend all my extra time just sitting and talking with him about our background in music. We went scuba diving together, we would swim together, do just a lot of individual things together, and I would sometimes send Stottler off with the film team at night saying, "I'm too tired, I've been working so hard, why don't you take them," and then I would just spend the time on the boat with the captain.
Dennis: You were plotting all that time?
Judy: Plotting – I guess …
Dennis: … now, seriously, Judy, it sounded like you said, "I would send Stottler off with the film team to show the Jesus film, to lead people to Christ," so you could kind of set up your relationship at that point.
Judy: You know, to be honest, that's true, and when you're doing those kinds of things, you make excuses right and left in your spirit. One of the things I talk about in the book is being honest with ourselves, because I chose not to be honest with myself. I was coming up with all the excuses of, "Oh, I'm tired, I don't want to go, and so I'll just rest on the boat and, oh, the captain happens to be on the boat, too, my, my." But internally I knew what I was doing, and I knew I was trying to further this relationship.
Bob: Was the captain a believer?
Judy: He was but not a real strong believer.
Bob: So he must have sensed, early on, the same kind of connection that you sensed.
Judy: He did. When I made my feelings known, he told me that he felt like I was untouchable because of my husband. He had a great respect for Stottler, and rightly so. But when I let him know that the doors were potentially open, then he responded more favorably.
Dennis: How did you let him know your doors were open?
Judy: Well, somewhere towards the end of the project, I was in the Caribbean by myself. We had actually traveled back and forth quite a bit from California. Sometimes I would return by myself, sometimes Stottler and I would both come. This particular trip, I came on my own, and I waited until a time when no one was on the boat and thought through all the ways that I could tell him how I felt and revealed that to him, he was really surprised, because here I was, a missionary in full-time Christian work, I shouldn't be pursuing something like this. But then as we continued to talk, he said he couldn't pursue something like this unless I was single, essentially, and so that got my mind going into what the possibilities of that were; whether Stottler would die, or whether I would divorce or whatever.
Dennis: Well, now, wait a second, I want to back you up to the conversation. You plotted about how you were going to be able to talk with him on the boat when no one was there?
Judy: Correct.
Dennis: So where were you and what did you say?
Judy: We were in a beautiful port in Guadalupe, a charming little port.
Dennis: So it was romantic.
Judy: Oh, it was absolutely romantic. The whole project was romantic. You're in the middle of sun and sand and sin, and it's a perfect place for a setup like this. And we were on the deck of the boat, and the boat was rocking gently on the waves, and the sun was absolutely gorgeous, and I just revealed to him how I had been feeling and wanted to know if he felt anything the same.
Dennis: How had you been feeling?
Judy: I told him I was incredibly attracted to him and that I was really interested in possibly pursuing something with him and wanted to know how he felt.
Dennis: And what did you mean, "pursue something with him?"
Judy: I just was leaving the door open for his response, but in my own heart, at that point, I was really potentially considering not returning home to my husband.
Dennis: So bagging your marriage …
Judy: … that's right …
Dennis: … bagging the ministry, and running off with …
Judy: … with a sailor in the Caribbean.
Dennis: With a sailor in the Caribbean – what led you to that point? I mean …
Judy: Yes, it's amazing that someone could get to that point, who is in full-time work and has devoted their whole life to seeing the Gospel furthered and so forth. It really comes down to just a hardened heart spiritually. And once – I believe, once a woman or a man, but I know, for a woman, once we begin pursuing that kind of relationship, spiritually we just become harder and harder, and the emotions are so incredibly strong, and the desire to be with this person – it's like you're in love all over again – like what you experienced when you first met your husband. But those emotions are so incredibly powerful, you will do almost anything to be with that person and reason is gone. You become like an addict, in one sense. You will do anything that it takes to be with that individual, and the sanity of what you're doing – it doesn't make any sense to anyone else, but you are willing to do whatever it takes.
Dennis: You know, your description of that really is a good one, because I'm reflecting back on a number of conversations I'd had with people who found themselves in the same situation. And you're really describing puppy love.
Judy: That's true.
Dennis: The puppies are just running to and fro, it's a rush, it's addictive, you want to feed it, you're alive again emotionally in ways you haven't experienced in a long time, and I've looked into the eyes of both men and women who never, ever, in all their lifetimes, ever expected to find themselves in that situation.
Judy: Oh, absolutely, and that's the last thing I expected. I have an incredible husband. One of the most godly men I've ever met in my life, and I was the person that would stand up first and say, "I would never be involved with anyone else."
Bob: As you look back on it, Judy, how much of what you were feeling toward this other person – how much of it had to do with who he was, and how much of it was just the fantasy of the forbidden? I mean, here you are in a boat in the Caribbean for four months. I could fall in love with a lot of people on a boat in the Caribbean for four months. It doesn't matter who the person is, it's just that life seems so wonderful, it's not like you're really drawn to the real person.
Judy: That's true. I was partly drawn to him and the connection that we had being similar backgrounds and similar interests, but it is a fantasy situation. I had a friend tell me, "This is not a temptation, this is a Molotov cocktail, just from the setup of the Caribbean and sun and sand and so forth, and it is a fantasy, too, because when we don't expose these kinds of things, essentially, to the light, and I talk about telling your husband as a great way to nip this in the bud, but when I didn't expose it, I could just internally fantasize all I wanted and create a whole scenario that I thought would be perfect, whether it's reality or not.
Dennis: Was the captain married?
Judy: He was divorced.
Dennis: He's the same age as you?
Judy: He's about five years older.
Dennis: So you're thinking, "What am I going to be, second mate on the boat?" Because Bob's right, I mean, you're in the midst of sun and sand and sin, as you said, were you thinking that you would just sail off into the horizon together?
Judy: That's essentially true, because his goal for life was just to sail around as a captain, and a lot of times captains have someone with them that will be hired with them as well, that does the cooking and is like a first mate, essentially, on the boat. And I loved sailing, I loved the ocean, I have all my life, so that seemed like a perfect thing for me.
Bob: You said that as you arrived to begin this four-month trip in the Caribbean you were spiritually depleted, you were physically tired. Once the ministry got started, were you back trying to spend time in the Word? Was that happening simultaneous to your entertaining these feelings for this other man?
Judy: I would periodically spend time in the Word, but it wasn't the kind of heart-opening time that I would really be vulnerable before the Lord. It wasn't a time that I would come and yield my life to the Lord and say, "I'll do anything You tell me to do," it was more perfunctory, out of habit, that this is what I'm supposed to do, but I'm not really going to listen to the Lord.
Bob: When you'd go out with the team before you were cutting your missionary assignment to stay back on the boat, you'd go out with the team, and you'd see people respond to the Jesus film, and you'd all get together, and you'd pray, and you'd thank the Lord for these new people who had come to faith in Christ.
Judy: That's right, and initially I would be just as thrilled as everyone else when people would come to Christ, and at the first, it was a real struggle for me. It was back and forth. You'd feel like you had one foot in heaven and one foot in hell with the desires going on internally, but the longer I didn't respond correctly to that and cut off the relationship; do the things that the Lord was telling me to do, the further my foot got away from heaven, and the harder my heart became.
Bob: And there had to be some point in the midst of all of this when your husband said, "Are you okay?"
Judy: He asked me, and he knew that there was a real connection between the captain and I. He's so trusting that he figured I would handle it okay.
Bob: But was there not, at the same time, an emotional distance growing between the two of you – you and your husband?
Judy: There was. I think that we probably, neither one, addressed it because of the difficulty of the work just being so time-consuming, and we were also separated some during that time where he would remain in California, and I would come back to the project to set up times with the churches that we were going to, and so forth.
Dennis: Now, how many people were on the team that was showing the Jesus film in the Caribbean – that was on the boat?
Judy: It varied. Most of the teams would be about three people on the boat.
Dennis: So it was you, Stottler …
Judy: … three other people and the captain.
Bob: And did any of those three other people have antennae go up – what's going on with Judy and the captain?
Dennis: Right.
Judy: I'm sure they probably did. No one said anything.
Dennis: No one said anything?
Judy: No one.
Dennis: Later on, after this was revealed, did any of them come back to you and say, "You know, I watched a twinkle in your eye, and I wanted to say something, but I didn't."
Judy: I've only seen one other person since then that was on the boat with us, and he never said anything about it.
Dennis: Judy, we left that conversation with the sea captain, with you throwing open the door. You sent the signal, "I'm available." What did he do at that point?
Judy: He was very surprised, and it took him a while to process, but I called him back a few days later when I had gone on to another city, and I was at the point then of deciding whether I would stay in the Caribbean and not return home or to return home, and really laid that before him. And he pretty much left it up to me.
Dennis: At that point, and it's clear in your book that the relationship had been purely emotional in connection.
Judy: That's right.
Dennis: You'd enjoyed a lot of great communication, but there hadn't been anything sexual.
Judy: Nothing physical whatsoever.
Dennis: At that point, when you threw open the door, was there anything physical that took place on his behalf toward you?
Judy: No, nothing.
Dennis: Did you want there to be?
Judy: Absolutely. I believe an emotional affair certainly incites the ideas of what you desire physically but, by God's grace, nothing happened physically.
Bob: When you called him and said, "I'm either staying or going. What's it going to be?" And he said, "It's up to you."
Judy: I think I was really trying to convince him to be more open to this. He kept talking about what an incredible husband I had, and he's right. Again, I believe I was just so protected by the Lord, because this could have gone so easily the other way.
Dennis: So he was trying to talk you out of it.
Judy: Yes, I would say he was, in one sense, and leaving the door open in another.
Dennis: Both trolling for you as well as pushing you back toward your husband at the same time?
Judy: Yeah, you know, I think both of us really knew what we should do, but it was just a real internal battle for both of us. And he said, too, he said the rest of this project would just be a disaster if we pursued this, and what would that do with my ministry and all those things as well, so he's very honorable man in that respect, that he with held his feelings as well.
Bob: So you hung up and what?
Judy: I hung up and, again, by God's grace, called an accountability partner that I had had for years, set up many years back in my young Christian life and told her what was going on.
Dennis: Why in the world did you do that?
Judy: I have no idea. I believe, again, it was just God's grace.
Dennis: I mean, at that point, you're deceived.
Judy: That's true.
Dennis: You're sending your husband off on spiritual missions …
Bob: … and you know what your accountability partner is going to tell you when you called her, didn't you? She's not going to call and say, "Oh, well, Judy, it sounds perfect."
Judy: She said she has no idea why I called and asked her to beat me up, but I did.
Bob: Tell me about that conversation. You get your friend, Holly, on the phone, and you say, "Holly, I need to talk to you."
Judy: That's right, and I had told her, actually, a little bit before. So she already knew that I had an interest in this man but had no idea how far I had allowed my heart to go. She really gave me a dose of reality in big form and talked to me about my vows before the Lord, about my ministry, about my husband, just everything I needed to hear.
Bob: But she wasn't telling you anything you didn't already know.
Judy: No, it's true, Bob, but when you get to that point, you really need somebody to awaken in you again the reality, because you are deceiving yourself. You're closing your heart to what God wants to tell you.
Dennis: Both Bob and I know Holly. Holly is Holly Elliff. She is not just – well, she's just not any Christian.
Bob: She speaks the truth in love, doesn't she?
Dennis: Holly has eight children, she's married to a man who is committed to the Scripture, and we've interviewed Holly here on FamilyLife Today, and Holly is a God-fearing woman of God who doesn't play games. You could have called a lot of people …
Bob: … who would have been a lot easier on you.
Dennis: … that would have been a whole lot easier to have called, but you went right into the holy of holies. You called a woman of God.
Judy: That's the truth, and that's what I needed. Holly has been a phenomenal accountability person for me my whole Christian life, essentially, and so we had established that relationship from long before. So it was really God's grace that had me call.
Bob: How long were you on the phone with Holly?
Judy: Probably and hour, hour-and-a-half.
Bob: And when you hung up from that conversation …
Judy: When I hung up, Holly told me later that she actually had no idea the direction I was going to go, because she said my heart was so far gone at that point she really didn't know what I was going to do.
Dennis: Well, Bob, my kids used to hate this when I did this to them, but you're going to have to wait for the next edition of FamilyLife Today to hear the rest of the story. But I just want to review a couple of things that occurred here. First of all, we had a woman who admitted her heart was growing cold for Christ. She was on a spiritual mission, but she was neglecting to guard her heart.
Secondly, she never thought she would ever find herself in a situation like this, and I have to believe there are literally hundreds of thousands of listeners, both single and married right now who go, "Not me, I would never find myself there." That's not the message of Scripture – "Let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall."
Third, she kept moving in toward the heat that would burn her, but it was, number four, a relationship with a godly woman that she could trust that ultimately became a life preserver, not only of her marriage but I think, probably, more importantly, of your faith and of the legacy that you're going to leave.
Bob: Yeah, and you look today at what Judy has shared with our listeners and what, Judy, you share in the book, "The Enticement of the Forbidden," and in a very real way, you are trying to reach out and be that mentor to other women who may find themselves in the same kind of temptation that you faced and say, "Look, don't go there, and here is how to walk away or how to walk back and how to restore intimacy in your marriage when your heart has wandered."
We have copies of the book that you've written in our FamilyLife Resource Center. It's called "The Enticement of the Forbidden." And you can contact us here at FamilyLife for more information on how to get a copy of Judy's book. Again, the title is "The Enticement of the Forbidden," and if you're interested in a copy, go to FamilyLife.com. When you get to the home page, on the right side of the screen you'll see a box that says "Today's Broadcast." If you click where it says "Learn More," you'll go right to the areaof the site where there's more information about Judy's book. You can order it online, if you'd like. Again, the website is FamilyLife.com or call 1-800-FLTODAY, 1-800-358-6329. Someone on our team can make arrangements to have copies of Judy's book sent out to you, and we trust God will use it in a lot of situations, Dennis, to steer men and women away from the temptation to wander from your marriage.
And, you know, this subject, Dennis, for many of our listeners, brings up a painful past because there are some who are listening who did not turn around in time, as Judy described today, and there are some who are listening who had a spouse who did not turn around in time, and they've experienced the pain of adultery in a marriage relationship.
You and I had the opportunity not long ago to sit down with Nancy Leigh DeMoss, who has written a book called "Choosing Forgiveness," and we talked with her about the very real challenge that people face in forgiving others who have wronged them. This week we want to make that CD of our conversation with Nancy Leigh DeMoss available to any listener who calls and requests it. All you have to do is call 1-800-FLTODAY and say, "I'd like a copy of the CD on forgiveness," and we'll be happy to send it to you.
Again, the toll-free number is 1-800-358-6329 – 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY. Ask for a copy of the CD on forgiveness, and, again, we're happy to send it out to you, and we trust God will use that in a powerful way in your life as you seek to be reconciled with anyone with whom you have a broken relationship where forgiveness needs to happen.
And tomorrow we're going to be back to talk about how that reconciliation process took place in your marriage, Judy, and I hope our listeners can be back with us for that.
I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We'll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.
FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas – help for today; hope for tomorrow.
