Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Tuesday, October 14th. Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. Have you taken steps you need to take to protect your marriage against possible infidelity? Stay tuned.
And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us. You know, it could happen to anyone, couldn't it?
Dennis: It could.
Bob: The temptation, the lure, to be unfaithful, to step away from your marriage vows, to sail off into the sunset, to visit Fantasy Island, to …
Dennis: … whether emotionally or sexually.
Bob: Well, once we realize that we're vulnerable then maybe we can begin to take some steps to reduce our vulnerability.
Dennis: And, you know, I'm grateful for our guest on today's broadcast. She has shown tremendous courage in coming forth and telling this story. In fact, I have to tell you, Judy – first of all, I'll welcome you to the broadcast. Judy Starr joins us on FamilyLife Today.
Judy: Thank you.
Dennis: But I have to tell you, Judy, when I first heard this story, I said, "She did what?" She's a fellow Campus Crusade for Christ staff member.
Bob: You've known her husband for years.
Dennis: I have, and I've known of Judy for a number of years. She's worked in the Jesus film project and has had a great ministry in various locations around the world, more than 40 countries, showing the Jesus film, and I just have to say to you, Judy, I really applaud your courage in writing this book, "The Enticement of the Forbidden," because in it you share the story of how, in the midst of a ministry project, of showing the Jesus film throughout the Caribbean, you developed an emotional attraction for a sea captain of a small boat, a sailboat. So you're sailing in that blue water of the Caribbean, there are sunsets, there are sunsets, there are ocean breezes …
Bob: I can hear the steel drums in the background. It's the whole scene, isn't it?
Judy: It was a setup.
Dennis: And here she is on a spiritual mission, and the puppies representing puppy love were trampling all over your heart and your marriage to you husband, Stottler.
Bob: In fact, it came to a point where you actually confessed to the captain your feelings for him. You were seriously considering abandoning your marriage, your ministry, and remaining in the Caribbean and being with this man, right?
Judy: That's right. I had come to the point where I was considering giving up everything and staying in the Caribbean.
Bob: But a phone call to a friend kind of provided a spiritual shock treatment to reengage your hard heart. You hung up from that phone call with that friend after she'd reminded you of what the Scriptures say and what's true. What did you think at that point?
Judy: Well, I call it a "transfusion of reality," because she hit me broadside with the truth, and I really needed to hear it at that point. When I hung up, I still wasn't sure what I was going to do, but by the time morning came around, I decided to get on a plane and head home. And I had already told Stottler a little bit of my feelings at that point, but when I arrived home …
Dennis: Now, wait a second – you told him a little bit of your feelings about what?
Judy: I had told him a little bit about feeling attracted to the captain, but he had no idea that I was considering possibly even leaving him and staying in the Caribbean.
Dennis: What did he say when you told him you were attracted to the sea captain?
Judy: I think – he, of course, was very surprised, but he trusted me so much that he assumed that I would handle it well and not do anything stupid.
Dennis: But you were in the process of doing something stupid.
Judy: I was very much in the process. I was galloping toward stupidity, absolutely.
Bob: You flew back to California, you arrived there, and you sat down with your husband, and you told the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Judy: I did. I decided that I needed to tell him everything that had transpired in my heart; all the things that I had been considering, and he, of course, was upset, angry, a little bit. We cried a lot, and we began to pray a lot and determined to work through the damage that I had so quickly done in tearing down our marriage in these four months in the Caribbean.
Dennis: I need to ask you this question – this is backtracking just a bit – but as this relationship with the sea captain unfolded, did you, at any point, reflect back on your marriage vows that you had made, before God, to Stottler?
Judy: That is such a great question – I didn't and, in fact, the one question that Holly asked me that got me the most was when she reminded me of my vows. She saved that for the very last thing.
Dennis: Now, Holly is who you called, the accountability partner who set you straight on that phone that day?
Judy: That's right, and when she reminded me that I had a vow, a promise before the Lord and before Stottler, it was really at that point that I pretty much came to the decision this is a done deal. The decision has already been made five-and-a-half years ago, and I don't have a choice.
Bob: Were you broken by the depth of what your heart had entertained? Did you see it for the sin it was?
Judy: I think that unfolded a little bit at a time. I made a choice by my will to come back. It had nothing to do with my feelings. My heart was still in the Caribbean with the captain at that point, and my emotions towards my husband were fairly dead at that point. But when I came back by a choice of my will to walk in obedience with the Lord, as we began working through this, over time, and I determined, every day, to come back before the Lord to restore that fellowship and to have God soften my hardened heart then, over time, He began revealing the depth of my fallen nature and showing me that I am capable of any sin in the book, and that's when it really hit me of how desperately I needed the Lord every single day.
Bob: So you began, at that point, a process of rebuilding a marriage that had gone into the ditch, that's how you like to describe it, isn't it?
Dennis: Right, all four wheels.
Judy: That's right.
Dennis: No, I'll correct that. She is describing a marriage where there are three wheels in the ditch. The final wheel is sexual, it's when that relationship moves from just being emotional to being consummated sexually, and that's when all four wheels are in the ditch and, generally, you need a wrecker to pull you out.
Bob: And I need to say something here, too, because, Judy, I think there are some people that if it's only three wheels in the ditch, if nothing has happened sexually, they'll pull back and go, "Well, okay, yeah, it was bad, but at least we weren't physical." It's almost like "I didn't really sin, because we never were sexual together." You look back on this, and you say, "Oh, I sinned, I sinned big time."
Judy: Oh, absolutely, because an emotional affair is as damaging to a marriage relationship as a physical one, because it hits the core of the relationship, which is the soul and spirit of your marriage.
Dennis: You promised to be faithful to each other.
Judy: That's right.
Dennis: And it wasn't just a physical faithfulness, it was an emotional faithfulness.
Judy: That's right.
Dennis: And it wasn't just a physical faithfulness, it was an emotional faithfulness
Judy: That's right.
Dennis: Now, I know there is something that you believe in strongly that I also – and so does Bob – so all three of us here are going to preach this for a few moments. People who are listening need to back up, because you are about to hear something that you may not agree with, and it's pretty controversial. You have actually had some people push back about your idea of having no secrets in a marriage relationship.
Judy: That's right, I have, and the longer I think about this, and it's actually tested in my life, the more strongly I believe in it. I call it the "no secrets" policy, and it's anything in my marriage that would affect that marriage, anything that my husband needs to know that would cause potential damage in the marriage – feelings toward somebody else, past sins with somebody else, past affairs, anything like that, because I believe that if the marriage is not based on honesty, even for situations in the past, then it won't be based on honesty in the future. If I think I've gotten away with something in the past, I am far more likely to try something when I'm tempted in the future.
Bob: You know the objections of people who would disagree who would say, "Why dredge up – this is under the blood, this is covered, let's just let it be."
Judy: But it's so potentially damaging for a marriage for something to be found out that's been hidden in a closet, rather than for me to come forward, and God intends the intimacy in marriage that can only happen when we are honest and transparent with one another. That can't happen if we're keeping secrets and living in deception and lies to keep things covered from our past.
Dennis: And, generally, if there are secrets kept from your spouse, your spouse may not know what the secret is, but they will know that an area of their spouse's life is hidden. They'll sense it. They'll know that there is something that's off limits. And in the Scriptures, Genesis, chapter 2:24 and 25, it's clear He calls us to become one so that we can be "naked and unashamed." There is the idea of complete transparency without any fear. And what we long for in marriage is to be known and to know another person at that level of intimacy and to have no hiding.
What was the first thing that Adam and Eve did after they sinned? They hid themselves from God and then from one another, and we've been hiding from God ever since, and we've been hiding from one another ever since. And so the real challenge in a marriage relationship is to ultimately come clean.
Judy: That's right, and the future ramifications in the marriage are enormous, because, to me, when you're committed to the no secrets policy, then you're allowing God to have your husband be the protector that He intended him to be, because your husband then knows your predisposition toward certain sins, toward certain things that are temptations to you. He is able to pray for you, to help you to be aware when those situations come up.
For instance, in my life, now Stottler knows that I have had this attraction to another man, and so if he senses that now with my reactions toward someone else, his antennae are up. He is there to help me with that and to protect our marriage, whereas, if I had never told him and just come back and acted like everything had been fine, I would think I'd gotten away with something, and the next time that came up it would be so much easier for me to pursue it again.
Bob: Now, let me say something – let me say something to those people anxious to tell the truth; those folks who want to unburden their own hearts or souls at this point; those who might rush in and dump truth on their mate – you need to make sure that you've been prayerful before you go to speak to your husband …
Judy: Absolutely.
Bob: … that you look for the right time, the right setting, the right words, the right occasion, and it may take a process of time for all of this to happen. I just don't want any of our listeners to think, "Boy, you're right. Tonight when my husband gets home, I'm calling him in the living room; I'm going to tell him every dark sin I've ever committed." It may happen over a period of time; it may happen through a process of becoming known by another person.
Dennis: And you may need to have some spiritual protections built into your marriage such as another couple who might go through the process with you of processing what's been shared because, as you just said, Bob, the person who shares the failure can feel relief, but what is now your relief from your shame becomes the other person's to forgive, and you can turn your marriage into a toxic waste dump of sin and of mistakes and overwhelm the other person. And I think you really need to seek godly, wise counsel before backing the dump truck up and unleashing a load of this stuff that could overwhelm your spouse.
Judy: I agree, and it's also really important that when we do share, we share from a heart of brokenness over our sin; that it's not just for my relief, but it's really for the purpose of protecting my marriage, as well, with a real sense of brokenness.
Bob: That's a great point. Once you'd come clean with your husband; you'd had that day where you'd told the truth about everything that had gone on – a lot of people would look at a time like that and say, "Well, that's good. We've taken care of that, we can move on." The process was just beginning. It wasn't over, right?
Judy: That's right. It really starts from there in learning how to protect our marriage from that point on, and how to build walls of protection around our marriage for the rest of our married life.
Bob: So what did you do after that? You began a process – what were the next steps in the process?
Judy: Well, the first thing was to cut off all contact with the captain. There couldn't be any continuing contact. Then also I began making our marriage the priority that God intended it to be in the first place. I had allowed work to overshadow that, so I really focused on our marriage.
Dennis: Even though it was Christian work?
Judy: Absolutely.
Dennis: That's the real danger.
Judy: And it happens all the time.
Dennis: It does. What else did you do?
Judy: I also really worked on rebuilding trust. Anytime I felt like there was something that Stottler would want to know or needed to know or wanted to ask, I would give him that opportunity, or I would share with him things that I felt like were important for him to know, so that he really sensed that I wasn't trying to hide anything, that I really wanted to rebuild trust in our relationship.
Bob: What would be an example of something you might have shared with him?
Judy: If he came in, for instance, and I had just hung up the phone, he might wonder who I was talking with, so I would always be sure and tell him, "Oh, I was just talking with Holly," for instance, so that he would know that there wasn't any continuing contact with the captain, I wasn't hiding anything.
Bob: That's good.
Dennis: Did he become overly suspicious or jealous after all this occurred?
Judy: He didn't. He's an amazing man, but I imagine that easily happens in a marriage.
Bob: And I'm sure, and I don't want to interrupt what you were going through, but I'm sure he had his own process that he had to go through in terms of pressing ahead for your marriage to be back where both of you wanted it to be, right?
Judy: He did. He's so committed to the marriage, though, that he did whatever it took as well.
Bob: Okay, what else were you doing?
Judy: Well, there are basic things that I think any marriage needs to do to really build walls of protection around them, not only to reestablish trust but for the future of that marriage. The very first thing is, of course, our times with the Lord individually. I don't believe there is anything more important that protects our marriage than our individual time with the Lord, making sure that we're yielded to Him and willing to do anything that He tells us to every day. That is absolutely the most important thing that we can do daily.
And then also is the whole issue of learning to protect our relationship with other men, how we respond to other men, because in this society, it's such a lax situation between men and women and the friendships that grow, it's very easy for a friendship to grow quickly beyond the bounds that God intends for a friendship with another man, for instance, to be.
Bob: How can you tell now, as you look at friendships with men you know from church or men who are involved in ministry with you – where are the walls that keep it at an appropriate friendship versus an inappropriate friendship?
Judy: Well, I call it building an "invisible wall," and certainly one of the first things is not sharing personal, private information – anything that should be kept exclusively for my husband and for that relationship. And also if I find myself looking forward to sharing something with another man rather than my husband, that's definitely a red flag. I need to focus on sharing all the things that are important in my life with my husband, first and foremost, so those needs for intimacy are met in that relationship.
Bob: And if you had a situation where you were thinking, "I'm kind of looking forward to sharing this with somebody," and the red flag popped up, what would you do with that?
Judy: At this point, if it continued several times, and I'd dealt with it, but those emotions continued in my heart, I would pray about it and wait for the right time and then tell Stottler.
Dennis: You also believe that you have to build some protective walls in the workplace?
Judy: Absolutely. The workplace is one of the first places that women now are being drawn to men, because there are so many women in the workforce these days, and it's so easy for us, as women – now we go to lunch with the men we work with, you're in contact with your boss, you're dressed your best, you're working with other men on the same important projects, the same driving kind of thing all day – by the time you come home, you've already shared your heart with everybody else. You have nothing that you need to share with your husband anymore. And we need to be so careful, again, of saving those kinds of intimacies and those things that are exciting in our lives to be able to share with our husband.
Dennis: Judy, you seem like a very modest person, all right? This next protection says you should dress modestly as you interact with the opposite sex. When you were in this relationship with the sea captain, did you begin to change the way you dressed?
Judy: Oh, I'm caught, I did, and it's amazing, because I never, ever in my life dressed like I did on the boat. I bought blouses that were much lower, skirts that were much higher, solely with the intent of attracting the captain, and I never dress like that.
Dennis: Again, I have to wonder – where was Stottler in all this? Did he not see the transformation before his very eyes?
Judy: I think he's so trusting and such a loving husband, and I've found, too, that husbands, a lot of times, don't want to admit that this is going on before them, and I think that's another reason why it's so important for us to tell them our tendencies towards things like this so that they will realize this is a serious issue in my life. I'm tempted this way, and this happens sometimes. So when these things happen, be aware – this is something you need to ask me about, because I think, a lot of times, husbands are just very trusting.
Dennis: I think what you're uncovering here is that at the core of an emotional affair is the desire for attention. It meets a need in a woman's life unlike anything else, and clothing is a way of getting attention toward yourself.
Judy: Absolutely. And, too, if we allow those needs to be met outside our marriage then, of course, we're going to be attracted to somebody. That's why it's so important for us to talk with our husbands about the needs that we have – for attention, for time with him, for making our marriage the priority it's supposed to be, because those needs need to be met within the marriage.
Dennis: Judy, I really appreciate your transparency. Bob and I have really put you on the spot not more than half a dozen times this week on FamilyLife Today.
Judy: That's true.
Dennis: But I also really am encouraged by what you've written in your book here. Unfortunately, we're not going to be able to finish this list of how to protect your marriage and how to protect that relationship into the future. We are going to put the full list of eight habits that build walls of protection around your marriage on the Internet at FamilyLife.com.
I just need to say to listeners who are caught or who find themselves entertaining this idea – get a copy of Judy's book, because some of these chapters, Bob, are so important. I look at Chapter 20, "How to Respond to Marital Temptations," we didn't even get to that. There are some who need to get that right now. And as you exhorted people earlier this week, you need to call 1-800-FLTODAY, get a copy of this book overnighted, because you can't afford to play with the fire that can – well, it can destroy your marriage, your family, and your life.
Judy, again, we introduced you by saying this – I just appreciate your transparency, your openness, and your courage and sharing your story with our listeners, and I also appreciate your work with the Jesus film and you and Stottler.
Judy: Thank you, Dennis.
Bob: You know, we have already heard from hundreds of listeners who have responded to what they have heard us talking about this week with Judy, and I think your story is connecting with folks – either folks who find themselves being pulled emotionally like you found yourself, or those who have experienced the reality of adultery in a marriage relationship and are trying to find a way to patch the wounds that come when a spouse is unfaithful.
And I hope our listeners will consider getting a copy of your book, which is called "The Enticement of the Forbidden." Whether they are in that situation where their heart is being tempted or not, this is a helpful book for any man or woman to read to recognize the warning signs and see how you guard your heart to keep from getting there.
We have the book in our FamilyLife Resource Center, and if listeners would like a copy, theycan go to our website, which is FamilyLife.com. On the right side of the home page, you'll see a box that says "Today's Broadcast." Click where it says "Learn More," and that will take you to the part of the site where there is information about Judy's book and about other resources we have on this subject.
Again, the website is FamilyLife.com, and you can order Judy's book online, if you'd like, or you can call 1-800-FLTODAY – 1-800-368-6329. That's 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY, and when you get in touch with us, we'll make arrangements to have a copy of Judy's book sent to you.
And then for those of our listeners who may have experienced the pain of adultery or where there has been any kind of a broken relationship where forgiveness is needed, we had an opportunity not long ago to sit down with Nancy Leigh DeMoss who has written a book called "Choosing Forgiveness," and we explored this whole subject with her, and we want to make the CD of that conversation available to listeners this week. All you have to do is call and request it, and we're happy to send it to you at no cost. You simply call 1-800-FLTODAY, 1-800-358-6329, ask for the CD on forgiveness, and we'll get it out to you, and we hope God will use it to help you walk along what can be a very challenging path for any of us – the journey toward forgiving another person.
Again, just call 1-800-FLTODAY, ask for the free CD on forgiveness, and we'd be delighted to send it to you.
Now, tomorrow we're going to talk to a pastor who awakened one morning to find that his son in his 20s was dead unexpectedly. We'll talk to Pastor Dennis Apple about that experience on tomorrow's program. I hope you can be with us for that.
I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We'll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.
FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas – help for today; hope for tomorrow.
