Program: FamilyLife Today

Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Thursday, February 10th. Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. We'll have suggestions today on improving intimacy in your marriage that have nothing to do with the bedroom.

And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Thursday edition. You know, some of what we're going to talk about today, Moms or Dads may decide it's not appropriate for younger listeners. You may want to exclude them from today's conversation as we talk with Danny Akin about love and marriage and intimacy in marriage.

You know, back, I don't know, five years ago I think it was when we teamed up with the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood to do a conference in Dallas called "Building Strong Families in Your Church."

Dennis: That's correct.

Bob: We had leaders from all across the country who flew in. I think there were about 800 people that came to the conference.

Dennis: The most number of speakers we've ever had at any event.

Bob: We had about 50 speakers, is that right?

Dennis: Fifty professional godly men and women from all over the country.

Bob: Well, and one of them was a seminary professor from Southern Seminary, right?

Dennis: Right, Danny Akin joined us and spoke at that time. We got to know each other. We've since been a part of quite a few things and including Danny standing on behalf of the Scriptures, you and I stood along with more than 130 other Christian leaders on behalf of the Word of God and standing against the TNIV. Remember that?

Danny: Yes, we believe that having a gender-inclusive agenda is not the wisest approach to translating the Word of God. We should translate it as God gave it. The interpretation issues are the responsibility of the pastor not the ? and the Bible teacher ? not the translator.

Dennis: And what the Bible teaches is very important, and I know that's a part of your life, Danny. You are now the president of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, is that right?

Danny: That's correct.

Dennis: He and his wife Charlotte were married in 1978 and have four sons. This has to be interesting ? to write a book, as you have, called "God On Sex," which is ? well, it's the book of Song of Solomon with a little bit of commentary on it. It has to be interesting to write this book with four sons. Did you think about that as you wrote this?

Danny: Actually, I did, and it was especially interesting to have one of my sons sitting through 14 Wednesday nights when I taught through this at our church when we were in Louisville, Kentucky.

Dennis: As a single young man or as a married?

Danny: As a single young man who said, "Here is my dad up there talking about himself and my mother. I'm having all sorts of" ? let's just say it was struggle for him in parts. But since that time he has met a young lady that he is getting quite close to, and he has shared with me, as have my others that ? "Dad, we're trying to take what you taught in that book and even as those who are looking toward marriage think through what it means to be a godly man, to be a godly husband, and to be prepared to be the kind of man I know that God wants me to be and that my wife needs me to be," and that makes it all worthwhile.

Bob: You pointed out already this week as we've talked about this subject that Song of Solomon does delve into the intimate relationship between a husband and a wife, and yet there's a lot in the book that's not about physical intimacy. There's a lot about just how to do a relationship right, isn't there?

Danny: Absolutely, in fact, I am convinced that this book teaches us that the key to physical intimacy in the bedroom is what takes place outside the bedroom. And one of the things you come across as you work your way through these eight chapters is how competent and how diligent these two were at praising each other and complimenting each other and building each other up and meeting each other where they had needs. And so much of the book is dealing with those types of things. In fact, one of my friends said, "You really should not have called it 'God On Sex,' because the book has a lot more to say about the relationships than it even does sex." And I have to be honest, that's probably true.

Dennis: So if you're going to fan the flames of the passion in your marriage and experience what God intended romantically for a married couple, you believe the place we start is in the words that we use toward our spouse?

Danny: Absolutely. I came across nothing more crucial in this book than the incredible power of praising, building up, complimenting, and honoring your mate. When you do that, there is something that happens on the inside of that other person that just soars and frees them up to give themselves to you in passionate intimacy that they could not do without that confidence that you hold them in the highest ? you think that they are absolutely one of your heroes.

Dennis: You came about learning some of these lessons not merely by just reading from the Song of Solomon but also through your own experience. Early in your marriage, there was a Tupperware container with some potato chips in it. Now, this is ? I want to remind our audience, this is ...

Danny: You didn't tell me you were going to bring this one up.

Dennis: This is the president of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. This is a man whose name is on a book called "God On Sex," and this is a story that every husband and wife, I believe, can identify with, and I just appreciate you being honest and not being fluffy. Because you know what? We've all made mistakes like this.

Danny: Well, I made a huge one in our first year of marriage when one Saturday evening we were having sandwiches she brought out in this Tupperware container of potato chips that were as stale as chewing gum and as microscopic as anything I've ever seen, and I said, "Honey, I don't want these. I would like some nice, fresh, crisp potato chips," and being the frugal lady that she was, she said, "Well, honey, when these are gone, you can have some others." That was not the answer I was looking for, so I made a stab at it again and said, "Well, sweetheart, these are just not very good." And she said, "Well, when this container is empty, you can get some new ones," and so I did what a man would only do, probably, in his first year of marriage. I stood up, as a 21-year-old, took that Tupperware container and dumped those potato chips on the floor and said, "This one's empty now, sweetheart. You can go and get the other ones."

Bob: Ooo.

Danny: Well, she didn't go get the other ones and, in fact, as I share in the book, she didn't do a lot of things for several days, and I learned a very valuable lesson right out of the chute in my married life.

Dennis: You experienced what America and the former Soviet Union did for a number of years.

Bob: A little Cold War going on there?

Danny: Cold ? Anarctica had nothing on us during those days.

Dennis: But we laugh about it, and, you know, it's through making some of those mistakes that a man can learn how to repent and say, "You know what, sweetheart? I'm sorry that I said what I said and did ? what I just did. Will you forgive me?" And then what a man has to do is he has to not only ask for forgiveness, but he has to prove ? I'm sorry, guys, but this is the reality of how relationships work ? he has to prove that he's genuine, and he's not asking for cheap forgiveness.

Danny: And that meant getting a dustpan and a broom, as we've talked about, when there is that commitment to see it through and realize that on the other end God will be faithful, and He will honor our obedience to His Word. You can take the steps that you need to take, and I have no regrets. I can look back like you guys over the many years of marriage, and am I regretful for any time, I admitted that I made a mistake, said I was sorry, did something to demonstrate that I was sorry, no. My only regret is that I haven't done it more often than I have.

Bob: You know, when I was growing up, I remember that I'd come to the breakfast table one morning, and my mom would look at me, and she'd go, "Oh, you've got ? it looks like a sore pimple right there on your nose." You know, "Does that hurt?" she'd say, and I'd go, "Yeah, it does kind of hurt," and I wouldn't think anything of it. Well, when I got married, I remember one time when Mary Ann came in, I said, "Honey, you've got kind of a big zit right there on your cheek," or something like that.

Dennis: You said this to your wife?

Bob: Yes, I mean, it was just kind of how we talked, you know. When I was growing up, you just kind of said, "Ooh," and I was asking, "Does that hurt? Does that" ...

Dennis: Oh, you're empathizing? You're being compassionate.

Bob: I was trying to be compassionate. Well, it made my wife cry, I think, when I pointed out the fact that she had a pimple on her cheek or on her nose or wherever it was, and it surprised me that it made her cry, because I wasn't trying to say anything mean about her. I mean, any of us can get pimples, but one of the things I learned real quick with that is most women, Danny, are not real confident and real comfortable with their own appearance, are they?

Danny: No.

Bob: And part of our job as a husband is to express our admiration for their beauty.

Danny: Well, one of the things is, in the Song of Solomon, in the very first chapter, you've got Shulamite saying that she is beautiful, but then she says she's dark, and what she goes on to say is that she'd been forced to work out in the fields. Long story short, a tan was not grand in that day. A tan meant that you worked out in the fields; that you were probably a common person. It was the person with the white, soft skin or at least the soft skin in the palace and in the upper echelon of life that were to be admired. Solomon immediately comes behind that and begins to praise her.

Now, he does it in a way that we would not do today. He says she's as beautiful as a mare among a bunch of stallions. If you do that with your wife, I doubt you're going to get the response that Solomon did. But if you look at it in its context, he is saying, "Look, like a world full of men, you're the only woman. I see you as the only woman. That's how valuable, that's how priceless, that's how beautiful you are." And suddenly her whole sense of who she is turns in that first chapter toward the end, and it's because he steps up to the plate and recognizes exactly what you're saying, Bob. She was insecure about her own appearance, her physical features. He comes along and, in essence, says, "To me no one on this planet is more beautiful or radiant than are you," and she just soars after that.

Dennis: He understood the power of words.

Danny: Yes, he did.

Dennis: The power of praise. Are there other things that a man can praise his wife for besides her beauty?

Danny: Oh, absolutely. He praises her as a friend; he praises her for her being there. In fact, sometimes he refers to her as his sister. We, again, would find that to be a little bit interesting or unusual today but in that context it was a way of saying, "I don't have a friend who is any closer to me than you. You're almost like a blood relative when it comes to that friendship that we share that's in addition to the lovemaking and intimacy that we have."

And so throughout the book he does and, of course, in our day and age, praising your wife not only for how she looks but for who she is, the many things that she does ? I often say, Dennis, that most men do appreciate their wives, but that's not the issue. The issue is does your wife feel appreciated? Are you saying things and doing things that let her know you appreciate the meal she cooked, you appreciate the godly mother that she's been, you appreciate the fact that when you act like a first-class jerk she stays in there with you and still expresses her love to you. Oh, there are so many ways we, as men, can do this and should be doing it.

Bob: And there's another side to it in addition to being free with our praise, we've got to guard our tongue from criticism, because that can tear things down real quick, can't it?

Dennis: And not just criticism, Bob, but from damaging words, and I'm talking about well-crafted evil words.

Danny: Contempt.

Dennis: Yes, where a man is brutalizing his wife not with his fist but with his heart being expressed through his words. Speak to the man right now who may be listening to us and who is abusive. I don't know of any other way to put it, Danny, but he's abusive with his wife in terms of how he speaks with her. He speaks with anger in the tone of his voice repeatedly. He perhaps cusses his wife out, cuts her down, and repeatedly chips away at her. What would you say to him?

Danny: He could do no greater damage if he punched her in the face with his fist, as you alluded to a moment ago. What those types of things do to the heart of a woman cannot really be put into words. It does tear it down, it pulls it apart, it makes it virtually impossible for her to give herself to him without fear that it's going to be abused and mistreated and taken advantage of. Men don't realize that words really are, in many ways, more powerful in our relationship with our wife than virtually any other thing we have. It can either be a great blessing or a terrible arsenal that just rips them apart. And, again, I did not know that when I first got married, but as I watched my wife respond both positively and negatively to the things that I've said, suddenly it hit me, "Boy, words from my mouth sent in her direction carry a lot more weight than her words back to me."

Certainly, I can have my feelings hurt, and I can be bruised by what someone says, but the sensitivity with which God has built into a woman is a wonderful thing, it's a remarkable thing, but it's also a very fragile thing, and you're exactly right. Too many men talk to their wives in a way they would not even talk to their best friend.

I had a friend one time tell me, "You talk to your wife like you would talk to your best friend, and you'll probably do real well in your relationship with your wife." That's probably very good counsel.

Bob: You know, when we get together with couples at our Weekend to Remember conference, before we ever open up the subject of physical intimacy, we talk about this ? we talk about commitment ? but we also talk about communication. I've said to couples on occasion as we've gone through a session on the power of our words with one another ? I've said, "What we're really talking about here, guys, is the prelude to physical intimacy. If this isn't working, don't expect much in the next session. Don't expect much when we talk about physical intimacy. But if this is working, you're laying a foundation for physical intimacy."

And, Danny, as you've said, we have power in our words. If those words are expressed publicly, either praise or criticism, you can just compound the power. If it's public criticism, you have just sown seeds of great destruction into your relationship. If it's public praise, well, that's even better than private praise.

Danny: Absolutely, absolutely.

Dennis: Last night there was a young man who came up to me at a meeting I was attending, and he said, "Dennis, would you pray for my marriage?" And I said, "Sure, but what's going on?" He said, "We're stuck." He said, "All I can focus on in my wife are the negative things, and she's not responding, and she's hateful to me," and he went on and listed the whole litany of issues that are taking place in his marriage, and I know a little bit of what's going on there, and he's got some challenges cut out for him. I put my arm around him before I prayed, and I said, "You know what? For the next couple of weeks, I want you, on a daily basis, to find something about your wife you like. What attracted you to her in the first place, and I want you to praise her for that. In spite of her response after you say that, I want you to keep doing it, and I want you to get on her team and to be on her team and to praise her and encourage her."

Now, we'll see what happens in that marriage, but I think what happens in a lot of marriages ? they both get in a rut, and they start turning against one another rather than turning to one another, and they miss the power of praise. They don't build each other up and as a result passion doesn't have a chance to ever reside in that relationship.

Bob: Well, and don't you think that sometimes a husband will say something affirming to his wife, and his wife will say, "Oh, I don't think that's true," or she'll downplay the praise. And the husband will think to himself, "I'm not going to mess around saying stupid stuff like that if she's just going to act that way."

Danny: And he throws in the towel too soon.

Bob: And she's going, "Do you really believe that? Say it again sometime, because I doubt it, and I'm not sure I really believe it." He really does have to ? even if she says, "Don't say those kinds of things." He needs to persevere and say, "But, honey, it's true."

Danny: Right.

Bob: And just stay after it, doesn't he?

Danny: Absolutely, absolutely.

Dennis: And if there's a guy listening right now who is not convinced at the end of what we just said here, just try it with your wife. Just try a little extra, a little extra layer of icing, a little sweetness to the relationship. I know, with Barbara, that she doesn't seem to ever get tired of hearing the words, "I love you," "I appreciate you for folding my laundry," for doing the household duties that she does so faithfully, for running errands, for helping me be able to do what I'm able to do. She never gets tired. She's never once said, "You know, sweetheart, I wish you'd stop doing that."

Now, she has said this ? she has said, "You know, I wish you wouldn't brag on me so much publicly." But, honest, Danny, and you can comment on this, if you would, I'm not sure I really believe her.

Danny: Barbara is like Charlotte, because I brag on her, too, because I'm proud of her, like you are with Barbara. Charlotte is a hero to me like Barbara is to you, and so even though she says that, I do think on another level she is so thrilled to know that the number-one man in her life thinks that about her.

Bob: Well, you know what? Charlotte is like Mary Ann, because Mary Ann would say the same thing, and we've talked about it. She said, "I just don't want the attention drawn to me in public." And so there is part of her saying I love being praised but just don't keep me in the spotlight too long.

Dennis: Too long ? you can let it kind of glance by there. And I want to say here, we've just bragged on all three of our wives publicly before several hundred thousand people here on our radio program. I want you to know that we're not talking about three women who are perfect.

Danny: No, but they're great women.

Dennis: They are great women, and I think it's a matter of perspective of the husband that's so important here. A godly husband is not focused on his wife's flaws, failures, or weaknesses. I promise you, with all three of the women we've talked about around this table, there isn't a man at this table who couldn't find enough flaws in his own wife to focus on for a few minutes, all right? But we've decided, you know what? We're going to focus on what's right not what's wrong. We're going to praise for what she does right not what she does wrong. And what person today in fighting the good fight of faith and trying to live their lives out and raise a family today doesn't need another person to be on their team today. It's like a law of gravity ? who doesn't need it, you know? You need someone to be for you.

Danny: Absolutely.

Bob: Well, and the truth is, your wives are great women but mine exceeds them all, I'm sorry.

Danny: Oh, now we're going to have a debate here.

Bob: You know, I imagine there may be some guys listening who they know you wrote the book, "God On Sex," and they think this doesn't sound like we're talking much about sex, but we've got to understand how the sexual dimension of marriage is really wrapped up in the whole relationship. You can't isolate it. You can't take the act and separate it from the souls of two people, and I think you point that out so well in your book.

We have copies of it in the FamilyLife Resource Center, and I would encourage our listeners to get a copy. Maybe a husband and wife would want to read through this book together ? a book from a seminary president on intimacy in marriage. Contact us and ask about Danny Akin's book, "God On Sex." You can go to our website at FamilyLife.com. Down at the bottom of the screen there should be a little button there that says, "Go." You click that button, it will take you right to the page where you can get more information about the book, where you can order online.

And when you get a copy of Danny's book, and you add to it the "Simply Romantic Nights" collection, a year's worth of romantic dates for a husband and a wife, we'll include with both of those resources at no additional cost a romantic inventory that we've developed called, "Do You Have the Heart of a Lover," and either the cassettes or the CDs of our conversation with Danny Akin. You can keep those or pass them on to somebody you know, if you'd like. Get all the information about these resources, again, on our website at FamilyLife.com or call 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY, and someone on our team can let you know how you can have the resources sent to you.

Let me speak for just a minute to those of you who are regular listeners to FamilyLife Today. If this program has been an encouragement in your marriage and in your family, if God has used it in some way to help strengthen your relationship as a husband or a wife to help build a stronger relationship with your children, can we ask you to help support the ministry of FamilyLife with a contribution, with a donation. We're listener-supported, and those donations keep us on the air in this city and in cities all across the country. So we're hoping that many of our listeners who are long-time listeners but who have maybe never made a donation to FamilyLife will consider going to the website or calling 1-800-FLTODAY. You can donate online or donate over the phone, but we'd love to hear from you. In fact, we need to hear from you. We need your ongoing financial support to keep FamilyLife Today going strong.

So, again, if you can make a donation online at FamilyLife.com, click on the left side of the screen where it says, "Donate," and it will take you right to the screen where you can go through that. Or you can call 1-800-FLTODAY and make a donation over the phone, and we do hope to hear from you, especially if you're a long-time listener, and you have never contacted us to help support the ministry of FamilyLife Today. We'd love to add you to the growing team of folks who help keep this program on their air in their city.

Well, tomorrow Danny Akin is going to be back with us. We're going to talk more about cultivating romance and passion in your marriage. I hope you can be with us for that.

I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We'll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ.