Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Thursday, October 15th. Our host is the President of FamilyLife Dennis Rainey. I’m Bob Lepine. The way we parent will change as our children become teenagers, but we can’t hang up the gone fishing sign and just unplug.
Welcome to FamilyLife Today thanks for joining us.
Dennis: Bob, you’ve had some fun with your daughters as you’ve raised a pair of them.
Bob: Well sure, yes.
Dennis: What would you say are some of your, well a couple of your favorite memories with you and your daughters. Because I know you have to have some, I mean you’ve shared too many of them with me.
Bob: I’ve probably as you bring that up, I’m thinking about the times we get the video camera out and I would video tape and maybe its favorite memories because I still have them on video tape and I can go back and watch some of these.
Dennis: And you don’t forget them that way.
Bob: That’s right, I haven’t forgotten them over the years, but I enjoyed seeing my daughters thrive in whatever environment they were in. I remember when Amy was in high school and she decided that she wanted to be in the play, Little Women, at school. So Amy was Amy in Little Women and it was just a joy to go and watch her and then they did Father of the Bride, she was the bride. Now it was not such a joy to see my fifteen-year old daughter
Dennis: Be the bride.
Bob: Yes, and wearing a wedding gown, and I’m going no, no, no this
Dennis: This is way too soon.
Bob: Yes, so it was things like that or seeing my daughter, Katie, excel. She loved being a counselor at summer camp. In fact, I remember one of the great memories that MaryAnn and I have we drove up to pick up Katie at summer camp this was when she was still a camper, before she had become a counselor.
So we arrive at the camp and we pull up and the counselor meets us and goes, “You’re Katie’s mom and dad”? And we go, yes. “Katie is such a wonderful girl. Oh, she’s been the best camper this week.” MaryAnn and I are thinking no, no, our daughter is Katie Lepine. You must be thinking of a different Katie.
(Laughter)
Honest to goodness we’re looking at each other and going could they be talking about our Katie? And then she gets the honor camper award, she is the camper out of all of the kids and we’re going well then could we just move up here and have her be the honor camper at home, because you know there is a disconnect from what we were used to in the teen years there.
Dennis: Yes, and it really illustrates what we are talking about today, a strong daughter. Katie, I know Katie and Amy, too. Both are strong daughters and I’ve got four of them as well. We have the author of Strong Fathers/Strong Daughters, and it’s talking about the power of a father in a daughter’s life and Dr. Meg Meeker joins us again on FamilyLife Today. Meg, welcome back.
Dr. Meeker: Well, thank you Dennis, great to be here.
Dennis: Meg is the author of six books, she has appeared on 60 Minutes, Dateline, The Today Show, The O’Reilly Factor, and this book is just chalk full of all kinds of practical pointers that really cheer fathers on in terms of what they need to be doing best with their daughters and one of the things you teach in your book is the need for fathers to provide fences for your daughters? Explain what you mean by fences.
Dr. Meeker: Really fences are boundaries, they’re rules. I try to describe to parents that when your child is little you need a fence that is short, but that covers a lot of territory. As kids get older, as daughter’s get older, one of the things that we parents, and particularly dads forget is that daughters still need those rules and the fences and they will test you on that and we know that.
They need taller fences that don’t cover as much area. Fewer rules, but those rules are big and they must stick and they are non-negotiable. Curfews are one. Dating rules are another big one in our house, and many times the trend I see in parents over the past 15 years is that daughters during their teen years, parents think well, you know, she’s grown up, and she’s mature and she’s responsible and she’s a good kid.
Dennis: And she’s pushing back against the rules so they begin to do what?
Dr. Meeker: They just tend to sort of back off.
Dennis: Exactly.
Dr. Meeker: They shrug their shoulders and back off, particularly dad. Mom is tired because she’s been sort of implementing these rules year after year after year and so she’s getting kind of tired, throws up her hands. And dad says, well I’m not exactly sure what to do so he backs off.
Bob: He doesn’t want the emotional pain of trying to keep the rules in place.
Dr. Meeker: Exactly.
Dennis: These teenage girls can punish you for that. Your father stepped into your life when you were dating.
Bob: He did not mind the emotional pain, did he?
Dr. Meeker: No, I don’t know that he really felt it; he was just very cut and dry about it.
Bob: But you turned it up on him, didn’t you?
(Laughter)
Dr. Meeker: Yes, I did.
Dennis: And he actually turned some emotional pain back on the young man who took you out, too didn’t he?
Dr. Meeker: Yes, he did and that. I was beyond the teen years, then. I was in college.
Dennis: Oh, really?
Dr. Meeker: I was in college so my
Bob: Tell our listeners the story of what happened.
Dr. Meeker: Ok, I had gone out on a date with a fellow that my dad didn’t know very well, but wasn’t, what he did know, he didn’t like. Now my dad didn’t have to say that, I could see it in his face that he didn’t like it. So the gentleman came over and picked me up and I had gone to an all-women’s college and I wasn’t dating a whole lot, but my dad just kind of knew something smelled kind of funny.
I got home very late and my dad was waiting up and that gentleman dropped me off and my dad ran out and just said to him that he was in no uncertain terms not allowed back near our home.
Bob: Because he brought you home late?
Dr. Meeker: Because he brought me home late and…
Bob: Now weren’t you a college student?
Dr. Meeker: Yes, I was a college student, but here’s what my parents said and we do this with our college students. And that is, this is our home, now I know and we say this to our kids this is what my dad said to me. I know you’re off at college doing whatever you want to do, and you’re there, you’re responsible, but when you come home, it’s our rules because it’s still our home. So you don’t go out and float until three in the morning just because you may at college. You don’t do that when you are at our home.
That’s what my dad let me know that still when I came in to the home, I was back under his wing, under his rule. And it really wasn’t rule; it was protection. I will tell you I learned about the gentleman who took me out that night, that sure enough he really was a bad egg. I couldn’t see it, but my dad could sense it early on when he first met the guy. He really literally ran him out of the house and that was that and I was humiliated and I was furious with my dad and felt like I wanted to run away from home and I was twenty years old, but I realized my dad was much smarter than I at that time.
Dennis: Yes, he actually yelled at your dad and your dad yelled back at him.
Dr. Meeker: Yes, he did.
Dennis: But you felt, bottom line of bottom lines as a woman even though you were ticked off.
Dr. Meeker: Yes.
Dennis: And embarrassed and full of shame at that point, you felt protected.
Dr. Meeker: Very protected.
Dennis: And special as a young lady.
Dr. Meeker: Yes.
Bob: When did you feel protected? Because at the time you just felt mad. How old did you have to get to look back and go?
(Laughter)
Dr. Meeker: I was really protected. Yes, because I was so furious and I was so convinced as a young woman at a women’s college in the 1970’s that I knew far better about who I dated, the character of people I dated, then my father did. But I was sort of feeling like I was falling in love and glossing it everything over, but my dad saw right through it. And so when I learned that this gentleman was kind of a bad egg, that’s when I really realized I was protected. My dad was right.
Bob: You mentioned earlier this week that and this has become one of those practices that’s become a part of the culture. After the prom everybody goes over to somebody’s house and they just have a sleep over.
Dr. Meeker: Right.
Bob: Boys and girls.
Dr. Meeker: Boys and girls.
Bob: And the girls are upstairs and the boys are downstairs, maybe, right?
Dennis: No.
Dr. Meeker: No
Dennis: That’s not the way it works.
Bob: Really?
Dr. Meeker: No
Bob: Mom and dad are there and it’s just couples cuddling up is that what’s going on?
Dennis: Yes, and maybe mom and dad may not be there.
Dr. Meeker: Right.
Dennis: I mean it’s a pretty loose situation.
Dr. Meeker: It’s very loose. Really what happens after prom and I will say this happens to Christian families, non-Christian families it’s just the trend, and that is the expectation is again after prom our kids are going to do things that are out of control. They’re going to drink , they may drive, we need to keep them safe so we’ll bring them to our home, take the car keys from them and then they can have their party here and it really turns into a sleep-over, a coed sleep-over.
I think it’s a very bad message to our kids. A: We expect you to be out-of-control so we’re going to keep you safe. Why don’t we just expect them not to be out of control and to get in the car, not drunk, and drive home? And if you made a mistake and you did drink, here’s the phone number, I will be happy to come pick you up, no questions asked and get you back in your bed.
But really what happens at a lot of these parties is the parents say we will be there and we will be up, but they’re not, they go to sleep and then some parents think, well you know my kids are good kids I hear this all the time, they go to youth group, they’re good kids, they’re not going to get into trouble. Studies show that Christian kids have about the same sexual activity rate as non-Christian kids, so we can’t have our blind folders on.
Dennis: And in all these matters, dad needs to step in there and provide the leadership. He needs to be strongly engaged and involved. I want you to comment for just a moment about the importance of fathers dealing the issue of modesty.
Dr. Meeker: Yes.
Dennis: Because this was a big deal in our home. I have to tell you, Meg, I didn’t feel like I was a winner here. I always felt like I was the bad guy. I’d take our daughters on a date and we’d try to find clothes that were suitable, and that was an assignment. That was a few years ago. Now the clothing is even skimpier. I mean how do dads navigate these waters?
Dr. Meeker: They need to follow their instincts, they need to be bold and they need to not parent out of fear. Again, so many dads back down because they say, well this is what all the kids are doing and I want you to fit in with your other friends. I don’t want you to be called names. I don’t want you to look like the prude in the class so I’m going to relax here and just sort of let you where what you want to wear to school or to prom or whatever.
Modesty is self protective. It’s a wonderful asset. Adults should have it, children should have it. People of all ages should have their modesty intact, because that’s how we protect ourselves. A girl’s sexuality is in large part shaped by her relationship with her dad. And her dad needs to show her and teach her that her body is beautiful and that it should have boundaries placed around it. Here’s why you should place boundaries places in your body in your body that should be not touched, and they’re off-limits to anybody.
Maybe as you are older, mom can see these or your sisters can, but certainly not me or your brothers. Your body is gorgeous, it’s perfect, and it’s wonderful. Make girls feel very good about their bodies. That’s how you protect their modesty. Encourage kids to wear appropriate clothes.
Our kids, it really wasn’t an issue in high school because they had a dress code in their school which was no skin from neck to knees. I could live with that it was great. And so it really wasn’t much of a problem and the kids sort of bucked it at first, but then as they got older they really liked it. And now that they’re out of college and out of the home they see the value in that and they’re very grateful for that.
Because I wonder how girls who are sixteen, seventeen, fifteen years old, allowed to go out of school, pass by their dad at the breakfast table in a shirt that’s showing tremendous amount of cleavage. Their midriff is showing, they have a very short skirt on and then they grow up to be mothers themselves and what will they think when they think, what was my dad thinking to allow me to walk out of the house looking like that?
They will think worse about themselves, they will look down on themselves and that’s really how we allow our girl’s modesty to not stay intact is by allowing the rules to be broken, allowing them to go out of the house wearing things that are very, very inappropriate.
Bob: This is an interesting line for dads to know how to navigate because on one hand you are talking about affirming your daughter’s beauty and affirming that the need for her to be protected and to be covered up. Yet at the same time we don’t want to dwell too much on physical appearance. In fact one of the things you talk about is the whole phenomenon of eating disorders.
Dr. Meeker: Right.
Bob: And the role that a father plays in that regard. Talk about that.
Dr. Meeker: Well, I feel strongly in encouraging and affirming a daughter’s character and this is a great thing that dads can do. Rather than complementing her on her grades or her athletic performance, which are pretty easy, or her music and certainly on her looks, or her weight loss or her weight gain, which a lot of dads do. Big, big, big, no-no. Talk about the things that are very important to you in her.
If you look at how Paul opened all the epistles, he didn’t say Oh, it’s so nice to be writing to you again, and you look so good, have you lost weight. That’s how we greet people in our culture. Women do, I don’t know if you guys do, but that’s what women do. We are used to complementing.
Bob: Here’s how guys do it, Hey, whassup? That’s how we greet each other.
(Laughter)
Dr. Meeker: Well we women go, you look so great have you lost weight and it’s really one of my pet peeves because weight isn’t important. We say it isn’t important and yet we talk about it all the time. So if you believe your daughter’s character is important, talk about that. Affirm that; complement her on her courage, on her patience, how compassionate she was. How she served somebody, don’t say, are you losing weight?
Are you gaining weight, even things like, that dress looks so nice on you, or over and over, every once in a while is fine, but if you say something about a daughters weight or how she looks in a certain outfit it’s a no win comment for you. Because what you say is not what she hears, she is hearing, “Oh, dad likes the way I look, I better work harder at it to get his attention”. Or dad thinks I’m fat, I better lose weight to make myself admired by him.
Dennis: You have been a pediatrician now for over 20 years, right?
Dr. Meeker: Yes.
Dennis: Talk about the increase you’ve seen in eating disorders in those twenty years. I mean has it
Dr. Meeker: Oh, tremendous increase in bulimia nervosa as well as anorexia nervosa. Bulimia is where girls over eat and then they will induce vomiting or girls with anorexia who will starve. These are very complicated issues but what we do know now is that the studies show that fathers are pivotal in affirming and encouraging a healthy self-esteem in a girl. The number one way to encourage a girls’ self-esteem is to receive physical affection from her father.
Now, are all girls who have a low self-esteem going to develop an eating disorder? No. But, girls with a low self-esteem who are very conscientious, who tend towards being perfectionist these are the girls who want great grades, who want to be perfect athletes, they want everything perfect in their lives and they want to be perfect for their moms and their dads. These are the girls who will develop eating disorders because they feel that they need to do this to keep garnering attention and affirmation from mom and dad.
Dennis: To keep an image up that has approval attached to it.
Dr. Meeker: Exactly.
Dennis: So what a father needs to do is he needs to affirm who they are, and who they’re becoming, not just what they do and how they look.
Dr. Meeker: And ignore her weight. Exactly. Ignore her weight. And parents say how can you do that in this culture? Unless your child is seriously obese and needs to go on a diet for health reasons, ignore her physical appearance because that’s where our culture is affirming thinness and anorexia and beauty in a way that is really sickening. There is a trend on the West Coast in the past couple of years that one of the gifts that was being given to teenage daughters when they graduated high school was breast augmentation surgery.
Bob: I heard about this.
Dr. Meeker: Yes, and it’s really, really sickening. We have become so superficial. So here is a perfect way that we can counter this by talking about a girl’s character and affirming that. If a dad does that it really stacks the odds against her developing an eating disorder.
Bob: You talk about how important it is for fathers to point their daughters in the direction of God.
Dr. Meeker: Yes.
Bob: Unpack that a little bit for us.
Dr. Meeker: Sure. I write in there that a daughter’s first experience of male love is with her dad. I see so often, women, adult women who are mothers who have had a negative experience with their own father shut down when it comes to prayer, to God, praying to Christ, to accepting Christ as their Savior because they want nothing to do with maleness. It’s far too frightening.
Dad is the pivotal person in showing a daughter that maleness is good and maleness in God is acceptable. Now this sounds like an over-simplification but for many women it’s a real hang up. They don’t want to have a deep intimate relationship with a male figure even God, who is perfect, even Christ who died on the cross for them and is perfect. It’s very intimidating. But a father has a perfect opportunity to model his intimate relationship with the Lord in that I am just man, He is God the Father and He is perfect.
First of all I as your father will make mistakes but it’s ok because God the Father is more perfect than I. I will mess up, but when I do, you can come with me to God the Father and He will help us with this. That will show her who God’s character is, it will make her feel safe in approaching God and it will make her feel good about maleness. That’s something that’s very much needed in families today, in girls who are very skeptical of male figures and close off when it comes to relating to God.
Dennis: Meg, I really like the way you’ve encouraged dads just to step into the lives of their daughters and not step back or get pushed out and remain outside of their lives and you’ve cheered them on without putting them down. I really appreciate that. I know your dad has Alzheimer’s.
Dr. Meeker: Yes.
Dennis: But, I’m wondering if before we’re done on the broadcast if you would come back and would share a tribute to your father. I don’t know how it works when people get to heaven, but I know because of what I’ve read in your book and what you’ve shared here on the broadcast, your dad has been powerful in your life.
Dr. Meeker: Yes.
Dennis: But would you do that before we’re done here?
Bob: And I’ll tell you take a minute to think about it before you actually do it. Let me tell folks how they can get a copy of your book and then we’ll come back and have you share, ok?
Dr. Meeker: Oh, I’d love to.
Bob: We have copies of Dr. Meeker’s books; the one we’ve been talking about today is called Strong Fathers/Strong Daughters. We’ve got that in our FamilyLife Today Resource Center. We also have the book we talked about earlier this week which is called Boys Should be Boys and if you are parents of sons or a father of daughters, you ought to have both of these books.
Dr. Meeker has done a great job pointing us in the right direction in both of these books and we’ve got them as I have said on line at FamilyLifeToday.com or if it’s easier for you to call to request these resources, 1-800-FL-TODAY is our number, 1-800-358-6329. Get in touch with us and we’ll make arrangements to send out the resources you need.
And if you are able to support the ministry of FamilyLife Today with a donation of any amount this month, we’d like to say thank you by sending you a couple of CDs that feature a dialogue we had not long ago, with our friend Dr. Tim Kimmel on the subject of parenting. Tim has written a book called, Grace Based Parenting, where he looks at how God parents us and applies some of those principles to how we ought to train up our own sons and daughters. The two CDs feature almost two hours worth of conversation with Tim and sending them to you is our way of saying thank you this month when you support the ministry of FamilyLife Today with your donation of any amount.
If you donate on line at FamilyLifeToday.com, there is a key code box on the online donation form. Type the word “PARENT” in that box so that we know to send you the CDs or call 1-800-FL-TODAY make your donation over the phone and be sure to ask for the CDs on parenting and again we are happy to send them out to you and we do appreciate your financial partnership with this ministry. Dennis.
Dennis: We’ve been talking to Dr. Meg Meeker about strong fathers and strong daughters. And I know Meg is a strong daughter, she must have had a strong father. And I asked you a few moments ago if you would come back and share a tribute and before you said a word you wiped away tears from both eyes. Could you address your dad and even though right now he has Alzheimer’s could you give him a tribute?
Dr. Meeker: Oh, I would be honored to give my dad a tribute. And I think if my dad were sitting right across from me right now, I would reach out and I would hold his hands and I would look in his eye and I would see him respond to my voice and I would say I am so grateful that I can still sit in front of you even though you don’t know my name, but there is a familiarity, there is a love that is deeper than either of us know that is unique just to us.
And I will always be grateful for the love that he extended to me and then teaching me how to accept that love. I thank him for the wisdom that he shared with me, the protection that he gave me, the courage that he gave me to keep on pursuing my goals and my dreams even though tremendous obstacles came in my way. I pressed through them only because I knew you were right behind me. And even though he doesn’t know me and he can’t hear and he can’t see, the love I have for him is tremendous and I’m so grateful that he is alive today.
Bob: FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.
Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.
© 2009 FamilyLife
Buy resources from this week's broadcast at the FamilyLife Resource Center