Program: FamilyLife Today

Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Wednesday, October 25th. Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.

Woman: And they still divorced. The letter didn't save their marriage [chuckles]. I'd tried to keep it, and I'm 20-something trying to help them stay together.

Bob: And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us. For a number of years, I refused to watch the movie, "Mrs. Doubtfire," and I refused to watch it because of the cultural message it sends. And I was ? I don't remember where I was, but I was channel-surfing one day, and I stopped on it without realizing what it was, and five or 10 minutes later, I realized what it was, and I was into the story, and I watched it to the end. Have you ever seen the movie?

Dennis: Oh, yeah, I watched it with my kids, and it was an emotional deal for me to watch it with my children, and my kids said, "Dad, be quiet. Let us just watch the movie." But I was giving a commentary, Bob, because of it's message, the very thing you're saying.

Bob: And a big part of the message is that moms and dads divorce and that everything will turn out okay for everybody.

Dennis: Yeah, happily ever after.

Bob: And I'm just curious ? want you to introduce our guests, but I'm curious if they've seen the movie and if they had the same reaction as they watched it.

Dennis: Okay, we'll find out here in just a moment. Elizabeth Marquardt and Jen Abbas join us on FamilyLife Today. Jen, Elizabeth, welcome back to the broadcast.

Elizabeth: Thank you.

Jen: Thank you.

Dennis: Jen is a freelance writer. She has recently ventured out in faith from a long history of working in the marketing area and is becoming a full-fledged writer, and she does that with much fear and trepidation, I can see it on her face. But she's just finished a book called "Generation E-x," or "Generation Ex," and it's all about the adult children of divorce and the healing of our pain.

Of course, Elizabeth is the director of the Center for Marriages and Families at the Institute for American Values, and she's written a book, "Between Two Worlds," which, really, Elizabeth, is about a national study that you pioneered around children of divorce, and I want to go back and re-ask Bob's question ? did you all see the movie, "Mrs. Doubtfire" and what did you think about it?

Jen: You know, I watched it when I was writing the book for research. When it came out, I didn't watch it, because it's just too hard to watch a movie that gives that message, because I know that it's a lie.

Bob: And when you watched it as you were doing research?

Jen: It made me mad, actually, it made me mad.

Bob: How about you, Elizabeth?

Elizabeth: It was some years ago. I saw it before I was doing this work, so I was just kind of the average moviegoer just watching the movie, and the Sally Field character who plays the mom, she's talking about why she got the divorce, and she says, "I didn't like who I was with him." And the words just imprinted on my mind because at first it sounded so profound and almost kind of humble, you know, it wasn't about him, it was about her. She didn't like who she was with him.

And the more I thought about it, it was, like, "Well, yeah, marriage is like having a lens held up right to the tip of your nose, showing you your worst characteristics all the time. There's a lot of days in my marriage and I don't like who I am with this man. I've seen aspects of my character I didn't know were there before I got married. And the answer is not to get a divorce, it's to get help.

Dennis: And it's not going to be happily ever after.

Elizabeth: And it's not.

Bob: You know, the Hollywood picture is fantasy, and one of the things ...

Elizabeth: Life is not a Hollywood movie.

Bob: That's what we've had a chance to hear this week as we've been listening to some real-life adult children who grew up in divorce settings, and we're going to hear from a young lady now who ? well, her parents went through a divorce when she was in her early 20s.

Woman: When I was a child, and when I say "child" from until I was 14, that whole span of my childhood, I saw that there was ? actually, I saw there was another woman in my father's life. I can see that. And when I was 14 is when it all came out that Dad had been having an affair for quite a few years, and actually he was a pastor at the time, and church members approached him, so there was a problem, and it wasn't just behind closed doors, it was out in public now, and so I was 14, and I went to a friend's house, and I saw how their mom and dad would sit together on the couch, and he would lay his head in her lap, and it just seemed really homey. And we didn't have that at our house. I didn't see my mom and dad have that romantic or just tenderness towards one another.

Bob: You know, we've heard this week from a young lady whose parents divorced when she was 2, and now from that young woman whose parents divorced when she was in her 20s, and the pain doesn't sound that much different.

Dennis: No, in fact, I'd like both of our guests today to comment on this, but you both write about in your books, Elizabeth, Jen, about the "sleeper effect." It seems that we've been hearing it all week in these testimonials by adults looking back on their parents' divorce. What is the sleeper effect on children?

Jen: The sleeper effect, basically, it's the idea that, really, as children, we're just kind of taking things in, but the impact doesn't really reflect until much later, and there's some trigger that whether it's, you know, first starting to think about our own romantic relationships or going off to college, it's usually after you're 18, early 20s, where, all of a sudden, you're hit with this grief because you're old enough to really deal with it. And so whether you want to or not, it kind of ...

Dennis: Yeah, you could hear it in the voice of the woman who was just talking.

Bob: It's like a contagion that lays dormant in your system until something causes that contagion to erupt into an infection.

Elizabeth: Children of divorce are so often protective of their parents. We heard that so much in the story just now, and it comes through loud and clear. In all the interviews I did, so often they felt the need to protect their mothers emotionally, often felt the need to protect their fathers, to care for younger siblings, and then you grow up and leave home, and suddenly you don't know who you are. Who am I? I was my mom self in my mom's world, I was my dad self in my dad's world, you know, I was always protecting people and nobody protected me. You're suddenly grieving losses you didn't even know that you'd felt or had, and it just kind of all hits all at once.

I remember, in my own experience, you know, my parents divorced when I was 2, so I don't remember it. I never cried about their divorce until I was 22, and I was just imagining my wedding day and ran across that idea of, you know, "Okay, would my dad walk me down the aisle," then that seemed kind of funny, and so I pictured asking my mom and my dad both to walk me down the aisle.

And I had this image of myself walking down the aisle of a church with my dad on one side and my mom on the other, and I just burst into tears out of nowhere. I was laying on the floor in my bedroom and, all of a sudden, I was just sobbing, you know, like the carpet was getting wet ? out of nowhere. I'm not a big crier, I don't do it much, and I was, like, what was that? And I had no idea it was there, and this was 20 years after my parents' divorce.

Jen: It seems to you that, for women, it's the romantic relationship ? the trigger, your wedding ? and it was interesting, as I talked to you ? I talked to about 100 children of divorce that I sat down with while I was writing my book, and it was interesting ? guys didn't seem to have that hurdle, but their hurdle was becoming a parent.

And a lot of them, because it was dad that went away, and the story that I tell in the book is this guy who got married and had his stepdad was his dad and always had a good relationship and didn't identify himself, really, as a child of divorce because he grew up in this very stable environment, and his first child was born, and he's holding onto this baby, and holding this little girl for the first time and looking at her and just filled with this overwhelming sense of love and protection and fierce, just, "I'm going to do whatever I can so that this child isn't hurt." And he was smacked with this idea that "my dad must not have felt this way, because he walked away from me."

Dennis: Wow. I was traveling on a plane a number of years ago, and I was seated next to a young lady and struck up a conversation, and I told her what I did, and so she began to tell me her story. And she had grown up in a broken home, and from her earliest childhood, her memories were that of going to her father's house for 50 percent of the time, and it sounded like it was precisely 50 percent of the time; and having a second world at her mother's house 50 percent of the time. And so she had two bedrooms, two sets of dolls, two sets of clothes, two sets of families, two sets of memories, and they never merged together under one roof at the same time ever.

And she was single, and I just remember in that discussion several things ? one was the longing ? I just heard a profound longing for her, as a woman, who longed for an ideal that she would never be able to achieve; never be able to experience.

Elizabeth: She thought she couldn't.

Dennis: Yeah, right, because she wasn't married at this point. And so there was a lot of fear, a lot of confusion, a lot of wondering, and you could tell, she hadn't sorted it all through. She was talking with me out loud, and we were interacting around it and, to me, this is where I believe the message of Jesus Christ produces the greatest hope in this culture, is Christianity is for those who are broken; those who have wounds; those who need healing. I mean, there's a reason why the stories in the New Testament are about Jesus touching people at their greatest need. It's because He does, and He still does.

And, frankly, it's why we do what we do here on FamilyLife Today because I don't know where you would give people hope today coming out of this kind of background.

Bob: I am not a child of divorce, but I almost was. When I came home from college for Christmas my sophomore year, my mom sat me down and said, "I think I'm going to get a divorce." I was the youngest of three, and Dad was an alcoholic, and the relationship had been stormy. I knew that through junior high and high school. And so when mom sat me down and said, "I don't think I can take this anymore, I'm going to divorce your dad," and I just started to weep, and I'm not a big crier, either. And it took Mom by surprise, and she said, "Why do you care at this point? You're launched. You're off on your own. Why would it matter to you?"

And I said, "I don't know why it would matter to me, it just does." And it turned out my mom and dad didn't get a divorce. My dad eventually got into AAx. He was sober the last 10 years of his life, and I've never forgotten, my mom, years later, she moved into a retirement community, and she said, you know, "I can tell the difference in this community between the women who are widows and the women who are divorcees. I can see it on their face. There's a hardness on the face of those who have been divorced." And I remember thinking, "I am glad that's not on your face. I'm glad that's not part of your experience."

But the reality is whether you're 2 or 20, a lot of parents will think, "Well, my kids are ? everything is okay now, so I can do this." If you're 35 with three kids of your own, and Mom and Dad get a divorce, it still rocks your world, doesn't it?

Elizabeth: It does. The older you are when your parents get divorced, the more you know what you're losing, the more years, memories, all those family photos. How do you look at the family photos the same away again? You're all smiling, and you thought you were happy. Were you not happy? People ask themselves, "Was it all a lie?"

Jen: Two other things, too, is you see a lot of guilt. You know, Mom and Dad stayed together until I went off to school. So they were miserable for the last 10 years because of me. The other thing is that when you're an adult, and your parents divorce, you're more likely to get pulled into that confidante role or some of those other boundary issues that are just yucky, and you're kind of ...

Dennis: It puts you in between your parents.

Jen: Yeah, you feel like you have to put your life on hold so that Mom can, you know, "I don't want to talk to a counselor, I don't want to talk to a pastor, but let me tell you ? do you have any idea how hard it was to live with your dad all those years," and he did this and dadadadada, and you're sitting there, and your parents think that because you're an adult you can handle it better, and let's kind of talk as friends, and that's how I want you to help me through this.

Dennis: And in addition to those kinds of issues, you have an additional issue, sometimes, for a youngest who is put between his parents, and he has to choose, or she has to choose, which one they go with.

Elizabeth: One of the things I write about is that for children of divorce, the choices between their parents last as long as they and their parents live. You know, most parents know they should not ask their little kids to make a choice between them in terms of custody or whatever, but even if the parents make the decisions about where the child will go and when, the older a child gets the more responsibility they have, the more those choices become theirs about how much time to spend with each parent, especially once they leave home.

When their parents are in need, they have to make choices. The older they get ...

Bob: Christmas ? where are you going to go for Christmas?

Elizabeth: And then holidays and especially when you start your own family. There are grandkids, you're married to someone, they might come from a divorced family. There are infinite choices to make for the rest of your life between your parents, and it's the toughest moral decision that I think these kids face.

Bob: Did your parents read your book?

Elizabeth: They did, and they've been wonderful. I gave it to them about a year before it was published, and I think it's harder for my mom. I think moms generally feel, you know, more guilt, but she very much supports my exploring my story in my own way. And having the opportunity to do that, you know, they're both very successful professionals, and they're glad for me.

Dennis: Have there been opportunities to have conversations below the water line, so to speak, since writing the book?

Elizabeth: With my parents?

Dennis: Yeah.

Elizabeth: Somewhat. I don't tend to raise it partly because I don't want to know. I'm just tired of pain, and I think a lot of people resonate with that, and you never know what pain is going to do. Sometimes it will grow you, and good things will come out of it, and sometimes it's just more pain.

I think becoming closer as you're getting older, with your parents, is just the best thing ever if you could do it in a way with healthy boundaries and in a way that allows you to be respected for your side of the story as well. And I guess, for me, getting to write a whole book about this and knowing my parents took the time to read it and have supported it among their friends, made me feel heard, and maybe I feel a little more willingness now to risk getting hurt by hearing some of these stories.

Bob: Jen, have your parents read your book?

Jen: Yes. Well, my mom has read it, my dad has read it, my stepdad has not. For my stepdad, it's just too painful to revisit, and so he's just not at a place where he wants to look back.

For my dad, it was really interesting, because I think maybe he thought that since he didn't initiate the divorce, that I wouldn't have anything ? I want to say negative, but anything that would really hurt him, and for him to read it, it was very hard because he just saw so much ...

Bob: There's loss there.

Jen: There's loss and, to my dad's credit, he is really ? we're both ? we're struggling to figure out, you know, how do you make up for 30 years of someone's life? You know, and he can't, and we're still figuring it out. But the one that I was most afraid of was my mom, because my mom chose to divorce both times. My mom had affairs both times, and my mom's not a Christian. And so when I sent her the manuscript, she sent me an e-mail and she's, like, "I got it." I'm, like, "Oh, boy."

And I didn't hear from her for a couple of days and so she picked it up, and she said, "I read it. I'm not ready to talk about it, but all I'll say right now is I'm proud of you." And then when the book came out, she read it again, and we sat down, and the things that she said that ? and I'll try not to do a commercial. I'll say this because I didn't write it for this purpose, but, one, she said, "I think I finally understand who you are as an adult, and I don't see you as that six-year-old girl anymore or that 18-year-old girl anymore, I see you as an adult, and I'm so proud of the person that you have become."

The second thing that she said is that "I know that you and I would not have a relationship if you hadn't become a Christian, and I had no part of that, and I am so humbled by the fact that you came to a faith that allowed you to come back and reconcile with me, even though I did nothing to deserve it."

And the third thing that she said is, "I realize that I have never apologized to you for the hurt that I have caused you with my choices."

Dennis: Really?

Jen: "And I am so sorry, and I married two good men, and I broke their hearts, and I have two great kids, and I broke their hearts, and I'm so sorry, and if I could go back in time and have the opportunity to stay with either one of those good men, I would in a heartbeat."

Dennis: Wow, Jen. You know, I'm glad you heard those words. I'm sorry it took so many years before you did, and I'm sitting here listening and watching you and the emotion well up in your eyes and your heart, and I'm seeing a huge smile that you heard them, right, but a tremendous grief that they had to come through the circumstances they came through.

Jen: And I think, you know, so much of the sadness that I feel is ? my mom is still not a Christian. I mean, she understands and, you know, the Gospel is laid out in the book, and she just has a lot of regret about the choices that she's made, and she knows she can't go back and change them, and she doesn't have the hope of Christ yet to know what to do with that grief.

Dennis: I don't know your mom, Jen, but based on that story, she is very close.

Jen: I hope so.

Dennis: She is very close to coming into a relationship with Christ. And, you know, as I listen to both of you share your stories and just where you've come from and, again, this is where Jesus Christ makes the most sense, you know. One of His followers said one time, "Where would we go, Lord, for you alone have the words of eternal life?" Where are you going to learn how to forgive somebody who has hurt you as deeply as what we've talked about here over the past few days? Where are you going to go to find hope and healing and comfort? And if the tomb is empty, and it is, Easter is not just a holiday, it's a historical event, then you know what? The same Jesus Christ who rose from the dead can provide that help and healing and hope that you need for the future, and I would just encourage you ? if you're listening right now, and you don't know that same Savior that we know, I'd like to encourage you to call our 1-800 number and let us just send you some free literature about how you could establish a relationship with Him, because it's really a very simple matter of faith to cry out to the God who is there and who does love you.

Bob: I was thinking about Jen's mom, and I was thinking about how the offer of the Gospel is an offer of forgiveness, transformation, and hope, which are the three things that your mom's soul is longing for, and that's what Jesus stands ready to give.

And, you're right, Dennis, there is a book that we have available called "Pursuing God," that we would love to send to anyone who today would call us or go online and say, "I'm ready for the change. I am ready to surrender my life to Christ. I am ready to turn from doing it my way, and I want to learn to do it His way."

We would love to send you a copy of the book, "Pursuing God." We'll send it at no cost with no obligation. We simply want to get a helpful resource in your hands so that you can begin to grow in your understanding of who God is and what it means to have a relationship with Him. Again, we want to invite you to call us at 1-800-FLTODAY or go online at FamilyLife.com and request a copy of the book, "Pursuing God." We're happy to send it out to you.

We'd also invite you to consider getting a copy of the books that our guest today, Elizabeth Marquardt and Jen Abbas, have written, especially if you are either an adult child whose parents were divorced or you know someone who is, and you want to pass these books along to them. Or maybe you are a parent who went through a divorce, and your children are grown, and you would like to give them these books as a way of saying, "I can't undo what's been done, but I want to help you walk through some of the issues and see if we can't come to a place of reconciliation and hope and freshness for your own heart; a place where some of those wounds can be healed.

Go to our website, FamilyLife.com. Click the red button you see in the middle of the screen that says "Go," and that will take you right to a page where there is more information about these resources, or you can call 1-800-FLTODAY and ask for more information. Again, the website is FamilyLife.com, you click the red button that says "Go," or call 1-800-358-6329. That's 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY, and our team will make sure these resources get sent out to you.

Well, there is a lot more to consider on this subject, and I hope you can be back with us tomorrow along with our guests, Elizabeth Marquardt and Jen Abbas.

I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We'll see you back tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ.