Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Thursday, October1st. Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey and I am Bob Lepine. We are going to talk today about what the Bible has to say about infertility and adoption and caring for the needs of orphans with our guest Dr. Russell Moore.
And welcome to FamilyLife Today! Thanks for joining us! Our listeners have heard you share your story of how you and Barbara decided to adopt. You’d talked about it kind of as a theoretical idea for a number of months, right?
Dennis: Yes.
Bob: But it was a call that came over a weekend that forced the theory into reality. You had to decide pretty quickly, didn’t you?
Dennis: We did but we had been praying. At the time we had four children and Barbara and I had been talking about it. Anyone knows if you have four biological children the chances of someone who has that many having the opportunity to adopt is simply not likely.
But the phone call came and frankly because of the circumstances that had occurred in our marriage we prayed again but it was a pretty simple prayer. Lord, thank You for this provision of this little girl who is being born and we think we know what we are supposed to do. We did call a friend and ask for some advice to confirm it and have an outside wise counselor speak into our lives. We’d been praying about it for so long and talking about it that it was clear it was what God wanted for us.
Bob: How long did it take for your heart to go from I don’t know that I’m even interested in this to getting a phone call and saying I’m ready.
Dennis: Unlike other people I don’t remember a struggle. I just know my wife was incredibly persuasive.
(laughter)
Bob: So when she said I might want to adopt some day you said that would be okay.
Dennis: I think it pretty much went that way. It may have been a foreign thought initially it would be interesting to know what Barbara would say at this point but I don’t remember struggling with her much. I do think what had already occurred in my life is a transformation from what we would consider to be a cultural or worldly perspective of children. Where children were a burden and they cost so much to raise them through high school or college. Everybody knew how many of thousands of dollars that was and all the emotional anguish and negative stuff.
We’d really abandoned the cultural view and had moved toward more of a biblical view and had seen children for what they were which was a blessing from God and a reward. Our guest on today’s broadcast also came to that conclusion as well. Russell Moore joins us again on FamilyLife Today. Russell welcome back.
Dr. Moore: Good to be with you Dennis and Bob!
Dennis: That’s kind of the same process you went through. You had to be weaned from the world’s perspective of children, right?
Dr. Moore: That is exactly right. I had to be weaned from the idea that there are biological children and then there are adopted children and that having an adopted child was somehow “plan B” and second best.
Dennis: Yes.
Bob: But wait, there are biological children and there are adopted children aren’t there?
Dr. Moore: But that doesn’t define the identity of those children any more than the fact that we have been adopted into the family of God. God doesn’t speak of us as you are the adopted children. He speaks of us as you are my children—my sons and daughters. The adoption tells us how we got here.
Sometime people will ask us which ones are the adopted ones. That’s not the way we view them. One of our kids, Jonah, who we had biologically, was three weeks early and born prematurely but he isn’t our premature son. He was born prematurely and we are happy to say that to people but that doesn’t define his identity for the rest of his life.
Dennis: There is a reason why, Bob, and you know this why our guest on today’s program has a pretty airtight theological perspective of adoption.
(laughter)
Dennis: That’s because he is the dean of the school of theology of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky. So he has thought this through biblically.
Dr. Moore: Right.
Dennis: His book, Adopted for Life, which I’ve already talked about this week is really a book about adoption and equipping couples to better process perhaps becoming adoptive parents. It is also a book on our identity of who we are as His adopted children and how He grafts us into His family and helps us better understand who we are. I have to say, Russell, I really enjoyed reading through your book because it does bring to a new level the whole understanding of us being His children and brought into His family through His adoptive process.
Dr. Moore: Dennis, you know it all came about as a result of some rude questions. We have found that when you are adopting children people will ask you anything just as they will with a pregnant woman. They will ask any kind of question they want to ask. One of the things we were facing was when we were in the process of adopting our sons people would ask, “are the brothers.” It was really important to people because it was almost as though if they are biologically brothers then at least they will have one another for the rest of their lives. So people would say are the brothers and I would say they are now. And people would say but are they really brothers and I would say yes, now they REALLY are brothers. Well, you know what I mean.
That is exactly what the New Testament is about. In Christ we are really and truly brothers and sisters in the household of God. I recognize that the very thought behind that question is exactly what all of us want. I want to be my own man or my own woman and I want my own right to be here rather than being brought in through grace.
Bob: Let me back you up to that point in your struggle with infertility which we have already talked about this week.
Dr. Moore: Yes.
Bob: You said that your heart had started to soften to the idea of adoption. You were driving down the street and all of a sudden it was warm to what it had been cold to before. Did you go home and tell your wife I’m ready to think about this?
Dr. Moore: A couple of days later I said let’s at least move through the process of the paperwork and we’ll see what happens.
Dennis: How did you decide to go international in adoption and not do it domestically?
Dr. Moore: People will often think of this was some really carefully planned out mystical idea. It was only because I said we are going to do this and let’s do it the quickest and easiest way that we can do it right now. At that time, Russia just happened to be the quickest avenue that we had to go in there. My wife had been to an adoption seminar where she had heard from an agency that worked through Russia and that is just the way it worked out.
Bob: Where there any times during that season when you were filling out the paperwork and getting the home studies done when you thought maybe this isn’t worth it?
Dr. Moore: Yes, we thought that several times. When the social worker came to see us and Maria and I had agreed ahead of time that we were going to be honest and we are going to answer whatever questions she asks honestly. Our social worker had a very different view of parenting than we have. As a matter of fact she counseled us not only never to spank a child but never to use a negative word to a child. Never say no. Never do any of these things she said instead distract a child with a big red ball when he is doing something wrong.
Dennis: So how did you feel about that as a theologian?
Dr. Moore: Well, I said we are not going to argue with her. We are going to be honest with her. We are going to listen to what she has to say. When she left I said to Maria I don’t ever want to be caught in dark alley with that woman’s children.
(laughter)
And Maria said no not without a big red ball anyway.
(laughter)
Because how does this even work. But we made it through that.
Bob: Russell, in the midst of that every month you are wondering whether you conceived biologically. Were there any miscarriages that occurred during that year?
Dr. Moore: No, and one of the things I think sometimes people who have infertility issues will sometimes think I’m going to let a thousand flowers bloom. I’m going to go through the adoption process and I’m going to be working on getting pregnant and doing whatever I need to do to do that. That’s what I wanted to do and my wife said, “Honey, I can’t emotionally take on all of this and going to the doctor and doing all of these things for the pregnancy. Let’s just please concentrate on this.” That was a wise bit of counsel from my wife.
Dennis: So here you are. You fly across the ocean and get off the plane in a country that immediately lets you know you are no longer in Kansas.
Dr. Moore: That is exactly right!
Dennis: Russia is an interesting place. You use a word to describe the orphanage when you walked into it. Instantly because Barbara and I have visited a number of orphanages in Russia I know exactly what you are talking about.
Dr. Moore: Quiet. It was a nauseating place. There was stench and squalor all around but the thing that was most shocking to me was when we walked in I said to Maria, we are in a place filled with babies and it is absolutely still and quiet. No one is crying. No one is whimpering and all of these babies in cribs are just rocking themselves and that’s when it hit me. They are not crying because they are not accustomed to anybody responding to them when they cry. Eventually a baby who doesn’t have anyone hearing him is going to stop crying.
That is when it hit me about the Bible talking about us crying Abba. I always thought of that as kind of a sentimental thing where we look up and say daddy. But it is a scream in Romans 8 and in Galatians 4. It is the same kind of cry that Jesus gives in the Garden of Gethsemane. It’s a screaming out to one’s father because one knows he is going to be heard. God is going to hear you. In that orphanage you had children who weren’t being heard.
We had to go on two trips and the first trip we were able to be there in the orphanage every day with our kids but then we had to leave so that the paperwork could be finished. We had to wait in the United States to get the call to come back. The last day I went in and I put my hands on the heads of both of the boys and I said I will not leave you as orphans I will come to you. We walked out the door and all of sudden we heard the one who is now Benjamin fall down into his crib filled with excrement and waste and start screaming out crying. It was the most beautiful sound I’d ever heard because as we walked out I said he recognizes us as his parents. He knows that we will hear him.
Dennis: You mentioned a scene of cribs and children rocking themselves. I know what you are talking about but our listeners may not.
Dr. Moore: The babies in these cribs would be moving themselves back and forth to give themselves some comfort. The cribs would just rock back and forth and there is no one there to rock them or comfort them. There is no human contact so they simply have to comfort themselves.
Bob: How do you keep from thinking we have to adopt every one of these kids and bring them all back home.
Dr. Moore: That was exactly what we were thinking and I’ll tell you, honestly, I’m haunted by the face of a little girl who was probably about three years old. She would come running into the room where we were with Benjamin and Timothy and I’ll sometimes wake up at night and wonder what ever happened to her. So many of these kids in these orphanages once they get old enough they are no longer considered cute or adoptable they are then let out when they reach the age of majority. Many become prostitutes or they become drug addicts or they commit suicide because there is a life of hopelessness waiting for them.
Bob: You referred to the one who is now named Benjamin.
Dr. Moore: Yes.
Bob: What did you mean by that?
Dr. Moore: Their names were Maksim and Sergei and we renamed them Benjamin Jacob Moore and Timothy Russell Moore. One of the things that became really evident to me as to how they knew they were our children is when they started responding to their new names. We would not have to say Maksim Benjamin. We would say Benjamin and he started responding to that.
Bob: Why did you choose to rename them?
Dr. Moore: We wanted to make it very clear that they are a part of our family now. One of the things people would ask us sometimes when were in the process of this is, are you going to make sure your children grow up to appreciate their cultural heritage? I always said, yes, absolutely. What I mean by that is they are Mississippians now. They come from a long line of Mississippians so they listen to Hank Williams and they eat friend shrimp and red beans and rice and the things we do. We want to make it very clear they are not Russian guests in our home. They are now part of our family. Just like all of us come out of all of these backgrounds but we are brought into this story in which we have these ancestors in this family and these brothers and sisters. That is what is true of them now.
Bob: Benjamin, though, wasn’t your first choice of a name for Benjamin was it?
Dr. Moore: No, it wasn’t. We wanted to name him Andrew. When we arrived in Russia and after we had been there in the orphanage with him they told us you are not going to be able to take this child because he has a strain of hepatitis that the immigration authorities are not going to let him in the U.S. A.and he’ll probably be dead before he is three or four years old. But maybe not, we’ll do another test and we’ll know by tomorrow afternoon. I went back to the house where we were staying and Maria and I prayed all night long and fasted. I was reading in Genesis when Joseph sends his brothers back to the land to bring the brothers back to Egypt. They say to Jacob we need to bring Benjamin the youngest child as well. Jacob responded if I am bereaved of my children I am bereaved. That was kind of the prayer that I offered to God. I said, Please don’t bereave me of this child.
When we went back to the orphanage they said everything is clear. He has no hepatitis. I said his name is Benjamin Jacob. We are reminded every time we say his name of the fact that he was preserved by God in so many ways.
Dennis: You mentioning disease reminds me of a couple of times when Barbara and I have had the privilege of helping place babies. We know a number of doctors around the country who have had babies born that were being placed up for adoption and we have known some families who wanted to receive a child. One of the things that surprised Barbara and me was the number of parents who would really count the cost of adopting and would be unwilling to take a step toward adoption because they couldn’t know what the health issues were in advance.
Dr. Moore: Exactly.
Dennis: In your case it was not just the hepatitis issue you actually were given a grocery list of diseases and yet you and Maria stepped toward it.
Dr. Moore: Maria and I had agreed whoever God gives us that is going to be our children and we are going to receive them whatever is involved there. There were all kinds of issues like fetal alcohol and everything else. We said these are our children and we are going to receive these children. One of the things I tell people is you are not going to have a child who is risk free. Whether you birth the child or adopt the child there is no such thing and none of us is risk free. If you are able to say I’m not going to adopt a child who might get sick or who might have something wrong then you shouldn’t be married or parents anyway.
Dennis: I’m going to push back on this because I can hear a listener who is listening to us right now saying but Russell, fetal alcohol syndrome. Do you realize what you are buying into here?
Dr. Moore: Yes.
Dennis: How did you and Maria sort through all of that? It’s one thing to be a theology professor but it’s another thing to absorb something into your family that could completely reorient your universe.
Dr. Moore: I think that is why the Lord put us through a time of infertility first so that we were able to receive children as a gift and not to receive children as a commodity that we have. Both with Israel and with Jesus in the temptations the Lord made us hunger so that we could know what it would mean to be fed. So we recognize these children are a gift and we are going to receive them as a gift. There are going to be struggles that will happen with children who have difficulties but we are special needs children in the kingdom of God.
Dennis: Has your marriage ever been tested by these special needs?
Dr. Moore: I think only in the way that all parent’s marriages are tested but no. We have never had a time where having the children in the house has been anything other than a strengthening of our marriage.
Bob: Tell us about when the papers were all signed and they came out with your sons and they said here are your boys.
Dr. Moore: It didn’t happen the way I thought it would happen. I thought it would be a hallmark special soft music in the background and the boys would be reaching out and saying Mommy and Daddy. Instead when we got to the boys at the orphanage they were screaming because they had never been outside. They had never seen the sun so shadows scared them to death. Wind in the face scared them to death.
Dennis: Wait a second they had never seen the sun?
Dr. Moore: They had never been taken outside.
Dennis: How old were they? There was no one to take them out doors?
Dr. Moore: No because you had a limited number of personnel in the orphanage dealing with all of these children. They were not able to walk the children outside. So the boys went into absolute shock. The sound of a car door scared them to death. One of them literally broke out into hives and they both were reaching back toward the orphanage crying while we were driving off.
I’m whispering in their ears listen this place is a pit. You have no idea. You are going to a place where you are going to have a mommy and a daddy and grandparents and cousins. There will be happy meals, and legos and air conditioning. You just have no idea.
It hit me then that is exactly what God is saying to us in Romans 8 when he says you are not able to understand the glory that is to come because we are so accustomed to this orphanage of a universe that we live in and this world of the flesh. We can’t even experience what it means to be brought into this family.
Dennis: God is telling us. You live in a pit.
Dr. Moore: That is exactly right.
Dennis: I have gone and prepared a place for you where I am you may be also.
Dr. Moore: Part of that is getting us ready to experience that. One of the difficulties we had with our children is teaching them to eat. They were used to hiding food in their chairs and all they had been given really was milk and a little bit of rice. They were traumatized by solid food and I’m sitting there as their dad teaching them to eat that solid food so they can eat these wonderful things later to come. That is exactly what my father has been doing to me all of my life and I count it as torture rather than counting it as blessings.
Dennis: Like those boys we unfortunately reach back.
Dr. Moore: That’s right.
Dennis: …toward the world. We keep going back to the world for our satisfaction and happiness and pleasure. I can’t talk about adoption at this point without turning to the listener and saying are you sure you are adopted? I’m not talking about physical adoption into a family and whether or not you grew up as an orphan. I’m talking about a spiritual orphan. Have you been adopted into the King’s family because He has a better place for you than this world.
Bob: And do you understand what it means to be adopted? I was thinking about your book and thinking I’m sure there are folks who are considering adoption or who have already adopted who will look at your book and say we ought to read this. But I’m thinking every believer ought to read your book because we all need to understand what the Bible teaches about our own adoption. What a great picture that is of God delivering us from the reality of our own corrupted situation and bringing us into the kingdom not merely as subjects but as sons and daughters with an inheritance that He has promised to us. We have copies of Russell Moore’s book, Adopted for Life in the FamilyLife Resource Center. You can go to our website FamilyLife Today.com for more information of how you can get a copy.
There is also information there about an event that is coming up on Sunday, November 8th, 2009. It is going to be taking place in Nashville, TN, but it can also happen in churches all around the country. November is National Adoption month and on Sunday, November 8th, we are going to be hosting together with our friends from Focus on the Family and from Show Hope, an event that will feature a message from Dennis Rainey, a message from Jim Daley - the president of Focus on the Family, and a great concert from Steven Curtis Chapman. The event is going to be open to churches all across the country.
There is more information about how you can connect with the event. You go to our website FamilyLifeToday.com, click on the “Cry of the Orphan” link and that will get you more information about how you or your church can be a part of this national event, Sunday, November 8th, 2009, as a part of National Adoption Month.
I want to say thank you to those of you who help support the ministry of FamilyLife Today for your faithfulness and your generosity. I know we have some folks who are monthly donors to this ministry. We appreciate our legacy partners. And we have some of you who just call in from time to time or go online to make a donation. We appreciate you as well.
You know whether you are parents of adopted children or parents of biological children, it is a privilege to be a parent. It is also a great responsibility to be a parent. Not long ago, Dennis and I sat down with Dr. Tim Kimmel, a friend of ours who has written a book called Grace Based Parenting. Tim takes a look at how we can reflect the glory of God and the grace of God in our assignment as moms and dads. And this month if you are able to help support the ministry of FamilyLife Today with a donation of any amount, we would like to send you the two CD’s that feature the conversation we had with Tim Kimmel. It is our gift to you as you help support the ministry of FamilyLife Today.
Again, with the gift of any amount this month; and if you are making you donation online at FamilyLifeToday.com and you would like to receive the CD’s, type the word “PARENT” in to the key code box that you see on the donation form. Or you can toll free 1-800-FLTODAY make a donation by phone and just ask for the CD’s on parenting. That’s 1-800-358-6329. We are happy to send them out to you. I just want to say a ‘Thank You’ to those of you who can help support this ministry. We are listener supported and your donations help make this daily program possible. We appreciate your partnership with us.
Well, tomorrow we are going to be back to continue our conversation with Dr. Russell Moore on the subject of adoption. I hope you can be with us for that. I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.
On behalf of our host Dennis Rainey, I am Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.
FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.
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