Program: FamilyLife Today

Elizabeth: Divorce shapes young people through their lives, how they approach the major stories of the faith, how they approach the big questions of moral and spiritual development, and I think the clergy, the congregation, we adults often don't know what to do with kids on their own, and we don't know what to do with kids who are from a divorced family. We don't want to offend their parents, we don't want to make the child cry, we don't know what to say so we just say nothing, which is the worst thing of all.

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Bob: And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Monday edition, Monday, October 23rd. Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. I have had occasion in speaking sometimes to be in front of an audience and ask the question, "How many of you have been impacted at some level by divorce? Either your parents got a divorce, siblings have had a divorce, or you are married to someone whose parents or siblings have had a divorce."

Dennis: Right.

Bob: I just asked them to raise their hand. It's the overwhelming majority of people in any room I've ever been in who raised their hands. This issue of divorce in the culture is prevalent, but the issue of children growing up in divorced homes now becoming adults and starting their own relationships, we're just seeing kind of the front edge of this situation in our culture, do you think?

Dennis: There are about 1 million children a year, Bob, who are impacted by divorce, and that's been occurring now for ? well, close to three decades, and to such a degree, if you take the age group of 18 to 40, approximately 40 percent of that age group are adults who were children of divorce growing up.

And it's so prevalent we decided to commit a series of broadcasts, just speaking to not only the children of divorce and to individuals who get a divorce but to every couple who are married to speak to the sanctity of marriage and the importance of making your marriage go the distance. And I think you're going to hear in the voice of this young lady, Charlotte, who is in her early 30s, just be ? the drama that divorce creates even to someone now later in life.

Charlotte: Of course, my mom and my dad married, they adopted my sister, and then I was born two years later. I was probably two or three, and then they divorced, but it gets a little confusing because I remember thinking because my parents divorced when I was so young, that this isn't going to affect me so much, and I'm going to be kind of immune to this.

And then later on in high school and college I thought, "Oh, boy, I was so wrong."

The way I remember things may not be what actually happened, because sometimes what a parent may say and what a child hears are two different things. But what I heard was "Your father didn't choose to take you." And what I heard was "Your father isn't paying child support," and what I heard was, you know, if I was angry at my stepfather, it's "Well, you should love him because he's paying for you."

And so, of course, I wasn't shielded from it at all. I was reminded of it all the time.

One of the issues that's come up in my marriage is simple, little details where my husband might tell me some little fact, but I don't believe him, and I was completely unaware of it. But after a while, it really starts to wear on the marriage, and, of course, there's much deeper issues, but from where I'm looking at it with divorce, the problems don't go away, they're simply just pressed down the generational pipeline, and it seems to me that they tend to multiply, too.

Parents are already adults. They've got some tools that they can use, if they choose to, to work through these problems. But if they want to pass their problems back and down or onward, I guess I should say, generationally, to their children, these problems are going to multiply because children are far less equipped to deal with these issues when they're young, and I feel like they're emotionally stunted, and they grow up emotionally stunted.

Bob: You know, as you listening to Charlotte talk about her own experience, I'm remembering how many times you've heard people say, "Well, the kids will get over it. I mean, they're resilient, they'll bounce back."

Dennis: Right.

Bob: And what we're learning is we've got a generation of kids who are the children of divorce, and many of them aren't over it yet.

Dennis: My pastor once said in church, he said, "We've been sold the idea by the culture that children bounce," as you said, Bob, he said that's a lie. They break. And they don't necessarily bounce back. And because of this issue being so prevalent in our culture today, we decided to invite a couple of guests onto our broadcast to simply discuss this and have a dialog, and it's interesting that both of our guests on today's program are both children of divorce and have chosen to write about this, really, from two different angles.

Jen Abbas joins us from Grand Rapids, Michigan. She's a writer and a child of divorce. As I mentioned, has written a book called "Generation Ex," and I want to welcome you to the broadcast, Jen.

Jen: Thanks for having me.

Bob: We ought to say that that "X" is "E-X," so that nobody gets confused by that title ? Generation Ex as in e-x, extracted from a family.

Dennis: No doubt about it. Elizabeth Marquardt also joins us. She is director of the Center for Marriage and Family, which is a part of the Institute for American Values; lives near Chicago with her husband and her two young children, and she's in the throes of raising a family now and appreciates more than ever the impact a family can have on children. She also has written a book. It's called "Between Two Worlds," and, Elizabeth, we want to welcome you to FamilyLife Today as well.

Elizabeth: Thank you so much.

Dennis: Jen, your parents divorced when you were six and at the age of 18. So you experienced this twice.

Jen: That's correct.

Dennis: And, Elizabeth, you had a little different experience ? your parents were divorced when you were a toddler at the age of two and then again at 9, again at 13, and yet a fourth time at 22.

Elizabeth: Yes. It's not all that uncommon a story ? the divorce rate for remarriages, as we know, is much higher than for first marriages. So if your parents divorce when you're quite young, there's a good likelihood, unfortunately, that there will be more divorce.

Dennis: You described yourself in the first grade hearing a couple of moms who were talking about divorce.

Elizabeth: Yes, I was climbing on the jungle gym outside my school, and I hear one saying to another, "Kids from divorced families are kicked back and forth like a football," and that image really grabbed me. I wrote about it in the book because it had always stayed in my mind, because I couldn't tell what that meant. And so I tried that out later with my dad, and I just sort of said casually, "Yeah, you know, kids from divorced families are kicked back and forth like a football," and he just turned purple and looked so angry, and I could tell he wasn't angry at me, but he looked angry, and he kind of stuttered, and he said, "That's not true. That just what ? that's only about kids whose parents don't love them. Your mom and I love you."

And I knew that was true. I knew they loved me very much, and I knew this idea of being kicked, that wasn't right, because I wasn't kicked back and forth. I was received with open arms back and forth, and yet the idea of flying up there in the air, sort of not connected to anything, on your own, not sure where you really belong, that really resonated with me. Something about that image really stuck in my mind.

Bob: As a child experiencing growing up in a home where there's been divorce, you kind of figure this is normal ? whatever you're growing up with, for you, is normal, and so you figure this is the way the world is.

Elizabeth: Exactly.

Bob: Jen, it's not until you get to early adulthood that you start to go, "Wait, maybe normal isn't normal."

Jen: A lot of times it's not until you're in college or you're out on your own where you kind of have a chance to compare stories with other people your age, and, you know, for me, that's when I started really thinking, "You know, maybe I missed out on something really, really important."

Bob: Do you remember a specific instance where you went, "I did that? That wasn't my experience."

Jen: I think, pretty much, my entire freshman year. I think the first idea was fall break and not knowing where I was going to go, and my new friends from intact families, well, they knew they were going to mom and dad's, and I didn't know ...

Bob: They were going home.

Jen: They were going home, and because my mom and stepdad, who I had lived with from the time I was five to the time I was 18, they divorced just before I graduated from high school, and so the house that I grew up with, with my mom and stepdad that I had lived in for 12 years prior to that was already gone. There was this new house, and everyone had kind of gone away, there was no home to go home to. So I didn't go anywhere.

Dennis: So you didn't feel like you were being kicked back and forth.

Jen: Not as an adult. I felt like my home had disappeared, and I didn't belong anywhere.

Bob: I've heard people describe that being weightless. You feel like you're just floating.

Elizabeth: You're floating, and you're kind of fragmented inside, you know, this idea of being torn between different worlds, not sure where you really belong, comes up so often when you talk to the children of divorce.

Dennis: Don't really have a place to be anchored?

Elizabeth: They have two homes, in a sense, and yet what comes through loud and clear is that having two homes feels less secure than having one. There's this real sense of not fully belonging in either place. Children of divorce say they feel like insiders and outsiders in both of their own homes.

Dennis: Elizabeth, you mentioned that your parents divorced at 2, 9, 12, and 22. What's the effect of four divorces on a young lady growing up?

Elizabeth: Constant loss is the best way I know to describe it. You know, there are a lot of good people who came through my life as a child. Most of them I don't know anymore. Stepparents, ex-stepparents, step-siblings, ex-step-siblings. You know, I have an ex-adoptive half brother. I have no idea ? I haven't seen him in 20 years.

Jen: I talk about having a family bush instead of a family tree ...

Elizabeth: Because it all just goes out.

Bob: And the idea of permanence in relationships for you doesn't make any sense at all, does it?

Elizabeth: Well, I don't know quite how to make sense of all of it. Because of my work, I've been immersed in sort of the marriage and family field for a number of years, and I think, along the way, learned a lot that helped, and I had the good fortune, I don't know why, but to marry a wonderful man. But he's from a very intact family. He grew up Catholic, no divorce in his immediate family; one of four siblings, and I just know that he's a long-term kind of guy, and I guess that gives me a lot of confidence.

Dennis: As I was preparing for this broadcast, I set my phone down where I charge it, and my phone charger is on a table where I have my grandparents' 50th wedding anniversary cake topper. I somehow ended up with that from Oliver Theodore and Bertha Raye, all right? And O.T. as he went by, and Bertha were married for over 50 years, and I can remember as a young lad watching them stand behind that cake, and I was, I don't know, six, seven years of age, but it made an impact to see them standing behind that cake.

Now, that was on my mom's side. On my dad's side, his father deserted his mother when my dad was about 12 years of age, 14, and, you know, I never had a chance to talk to my dad about its impact upon him as a boy, but it had to have an impact upon him growing up because he had to assume the role of caregiver in a pretty large family, taking care and providing for his mother financially, I mean, they were dirt poor.

But here was my mom and dad, in many regards a picture of this culture that we're growing up in today, which is a culture of divorce, where, like you, Elizabeth, you come from a broken home, and you married a man who came from an intact family. It does have an agenda on your marriage from the start, doesn't it?

Elizabeth: It does. I'm not unusual among a lot of children in just resisting that ? the feeling that you have a guillotine over your marriage is just an unpleasant one, and I guess we all like to think we're different somehow. So I know the data very well, that children of divorce themselves have a significantly higher divorce rate when they grow up. In my own study they did, as well. And I just put on kind of blinders when I confront that. I think it means that we need to be vigilant about our marriages and work hard on them and know that we can't do it alone. But I guess I also just look for reassurance in facts like, you know, if your marriage has lasted more than a few years, you've got a good chance of lasting for a lifetime.

Dennis: Is what you're expressing there more of a desire not to be a victim?

Elizabeth: It's not to be a victim and also the sense ? you know, marriage is a complex, tough thing, as we know, and, you know, if you have any belief that, for some reason, it's not going to work out, that's not going to help you. And I think a lot of us would like to think that children of divorce come to marriage almost divorce-proof, because we know how painful divorce is ? that, you know, we'll do anything to avoid it. And I think that could be true for some of us, but, as we know, we come to marriage also with a lot of patterns and often distrust that can make a marriage a lot harder, and we have a higher divorce rate. But I think if we reach out and get help there's a lot of hope.

Bob: Jen, you're in your 30s, single, never been married. Do you think growing up in a family where divorce was prevalent is one of the reasons why you're in your 30s and single today?

Jen: Absolutely. In my situation, my mom married young, and so she always told me the reason that ? you know, she was glad that she married my dad because I was born and my brother was born, but it didn't work out because they'd married too young and didn't have a chance to figure out who they were. But then she married her best friend, and so I kind of internalized that and I think somewhere along the way I kind of picked up the idea I don't want to get married before I'm 30 because if I get married before I'm 30 it won't work.

But then when they divorced, it kind of threw that theory out the window, and it really set me back emotionally and relationally. Not just romantically but even with friends. All of my relationships seem to be really cyclical, and they would run their course, and then they would kind of fall away. And so I think it's just taken me a little longer to change that hardwiring of what to expect out of relationships and kind of replace all the things that I've seen with what is true and right and noble.

Bob: Well, let's say Mr. Wonderful appeared in the studio right now, okay?

Jen: Excellent.

Bob: Would that be okay?

Jen: This has been a great day, thanks, guys.

[laughter]

Dennis: She's outta here.

Bob: Let's just assume he shows up and, all of a sudden, you're both smitten with one another, and you think, "Where have you been all my life. I've been waiting for you." Is there any fear?

Jen: There is fear, but I'm learning that, you know, faith conquers fear and learning to, really, just talk myself through that. But I have to tell you, writing this book has not been good for my social life, because they read this book, and, you know, there's the marriage retreat in it and stuff, and it's a little intimidating for the average guy.

Bob: I understand.

Dennis: Yeah. I want to ask you at this point, Elizabeth, because you did a nationwide survey, and you actually went after how divorce impacts children morally and spiritually. And you found, as one of your 10 major findings in children of divorce, that children of divorce are much less likely to have had consistent involvement in a religious faith when growing up.

Elizabeth: That's right.

Dennis: Now, I had to say, when I read that, "Wow, are you saying that children of divorce have more difficulty establishing a relationship with God because of that divorce?"

Elizabeth: Absolutely. Not only do they have less consistent involvement in a religious community when they're growing up, they are far less religious, on average, as adults. The grown children of divorce ? these are 18 to 35-year-olds, they were about 14 percent less likely to be a member at a house of worship and similarly less likely to be ? to say that they are very or fairly religious; less likely to have a leadership position in a house of worship. Many indicators, overall, these young people are far less religious compared to their peers who grow up with married parents, and the stories they tell explain this.

You know, many of them say, "When my parents divorced, we stopped going to church. My mom or my dad or both fell away from the church. Nobody reached out to me." One of the most poignant findings in my study is that of those children of divorce who were active in a faith at the time of their parents' divorce, two-thirds say that no one from the clergy or congregation reached out to them at that time.

Dennis: I want to stop you there, because that was a big "Aha!" in your book for me as well. You're saying that an overlooked victim of divorce are the children of divorce and that the Christian community, the community of faith, needs to cut past the parents down to the children and pursue them; to being to talk to them about how their processing it.

Elizabeth: Absolutely, and we need to recognize that children of divorce, their faith journeys are impacted by their parents' divorce throughout their lives, so we're not just talking about young children, we're talking about young adults and even older. Divorce shapes young people through their lives, how they approach the major stories of the faith, how they approach the big questions of moral and spiritual development.

What came through so poignantly as well is how often these young people would seek out a church and a life of faith even without either parent. It wasn't even just that they went to church just with one parent after the divorce, but they'd get there however they could, and so many of them told stories of walking to the neighborhood church, taking the city bus, going to church with a friend, showing up alone and being children in the pews alone.

One young woman kind of unconsciously said, "Yeah, I remember going to church, you know, sitting there in the back, and the kids who came with their parents sat up front." And my heart just broke. She had this image, and I don't know that it was necessarily true that every single Sunday the kids with the divorced parents sat in back but in her memory that's how it was, and I think it gives some insight into how set apart and different she felt.

And I think the clergy, the congregation, we adults, often don't know what to do with kids on their own, and we don't know what to do with kids who are from a divorced family. We don't want to offend their parents, we don't want to make the child cry; we don't know what to say so we just say nothing, which is the worst thing of all.

Dennis: That's exactly right, and I think because it is uncomfortable, many times we don't engage the adults or the children at any level, and they're left, in their isolation, to deal with a problem that's one of the biggest events of a human being's existence.

Bob: Well, and you talk about this being an "Aha!" for you. I think what we've got to realize as we talk about the subject this week is that there are a lot of "Aha's" related to being children of divorce that don't show up on the surface. They're not something that you can walk down the street and go, "Oh, yeah," but they're there, and they're tucked away. Even the children themselves may not be fully aware of what's there, but it is.

Dennis: And as we started the show, there's a huge percentage of adults today who have been impacted by divorce, and I want to encourage you ? call a family member, call a friend, and tell them to tune in this week as we talk about children of divorce and how this impacts us throughout our adulthood.

Bob: And you may want to get a copy for them, too, of Jen's book, which is called "Generation Ex," e-x, or of Elizabeth's book called "Between Two Worlds," and help them begin to read through what is common. I mean, they will find things in these books, I think, that will cause them to say, "You know, I never thought about that, but that's true, and it's true for me," and it's been, like I said, below the surface.

We've got copies of both of these books in our FamilyLife Resource Center. You can go to our website, FamilyLife.com. In the middle of the home page, you'll see a button that says "Go," and if you click on that button, it will take you right to a page where you can get more information about these resources that are available from us here at FamilyLife.

Jen's book is also available in an audio book form, and if you're interested in getting a copy of both books, we'll send along at no additional cost, the CD audio of this week's worth of programs so that you can review them yourself or pass them along to someone who might benefit from hearing these programs.

Again, go to the Web, FamilyLife.com, that's our website. There's a red button in the middle of the home page that will say "Go," and if you click on that button, it will take you right to the page where you can get more information about the books that we've been talking about today. Or call 1-800-FLTODAY. That's our toll-free number. It's 800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY, and let us know that you'd like a copy of these books or any other resources we have available. We'll be happy to pass them along to you.

Well, tomorrow we're going to come back and continue to examine this issue of adult children of divorce ? the impact that the dissolution of a marriage has on the hearts and the lives of children ? not just when they're children but throughout their lives. I hope you can be with us for that conversation.

I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We'll see you tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ.