Releasing Marriage Baggage: Preston and Jackie Hill Perry

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Releasing Marriage Baggage

Guests: Preston and Jackie Hill Perry
From the series: Beyond the Vows (Day 2 of 2)
Air date: January 17, 2025

Preston: In year one, we didn’t like each other because it was—
Jackie: I mean, every other month.
Preston: Every other month. Because one, we’re friends with each other for three years before we got married. And we go into marriage and it’s like, “Who did I marry?”
Ann: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Ann Wilson.
Dave: And I’m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.
Alright, so we’re back to talk. It should be our next book, Luggage Marriage.
Ann: Baggage. Baggage We Carry into Our Marriage.
Dave: That’s a terrible title. Vertical Marriage, now Luggage Marriage. Well, we’ve got the Perrys back. We’re with the Perrys. It’s my cute little thing. Preston, Jackie Hill Perry are back with us. Welcome back. And yesterday, I mean, I don’t remember. What did we get into? Oh, we got into anger and family of origin issues that we bring into marriage.
Ann: Well, it’s interesting too because even as we were off air, I was saying the way you guys have dealt with things coming into marriage, you do have and have brought in baggage and things from your past, but you’ve dealt with it very wisely, I feel like. And Jackie, you said there’s a reason for that. Talk about that.
Jackie: We were self-aware enough to know that without help we won’t work. And so from the beginning he had Brian Dye, who was our pastor at the time. So Brian was basically discipling him in being a husband, being a leader, all the things. I had Melody Fabien, who was discipling me and being a wife and being a mother and all the things. And so throughout seasons, we’ve never not had leadership and counsel as it relates to showing up for each other as spouses.
And so I think that’s the big difference is I think a lot of people are winging it and you don’t have the luxury of winging it when you have the flesh and the devil working against you. In a multitude of counselors, there’s safety.
Ann: But what about the people are like, “Yeah, but you guys are the Perrys. Everybody wants to disciple you. I’m a nobody Joe in the back of the church and nobody knows me. Nobody wants to disciple me or us.” What would you say to them?
Jackie: Well we weren’t the Perrys when we were being discipled. I was Jackie. He was Preston, but we had a really good Father, as in like God, who sent us people. And so it was up to me to respond to their pursuit. So Brian connected me with Melody and was like, “Jackie needs some leadership. She needs some guidance. Will you connect with her?” I was a little resistant, but I also realized, no, I need help as a human being. I need help to know what it means to be a Christian.
Preston: If you look at our past life, we both didn’t really grow up in a church like that. She came from a life of homosexuality. I came from a life of just being a womanizer, multiple sex partners or whatever. And so when we came into marriage with all of our brokenness, I just think about the kindness and the intentionality of the Lord to bring people into our lives to disciple us. Because we wouldn’t have made it. We wouldn’t have made it. You know what I mean?
And so God, He was just kind to us by sending people into our lives who would not only disciple us, but labor with us; that will remind me to love Jackie like Christ loved the church; that will remind Jackie to no, be patient even though you’re afraid. And those relationships, those mental relationships have helped save our marriage.
Jackie: And they still exist. I still talk to Melody. I was with Melody last week. Melody, actually, her and CD, lead some FamilyLife things. And so I don’t know, God is great.
Preston: But I want to just, I often talk about discipleship. A lot of times I feel like we cannot find people to disciple us because we have an idea in our mind what our discipler should look like.
Ann: Yes.
Jackie: That’s great.
Preston: When Brian Dye—so one, I didn’t grow up in church, nor did I grow up around white people. I grew up around—
Jackie: The face.
Preston: I grew up in a place called the Hood. And so this guy, Brian Dye, he just started following me to all my poetry events. I was originally a poet. That’s kind of how I got introduced to the Christian world, whatever. And I didn’t have a church home. And so he saw I had this influence in the city, and I didn’t have no church home. And so this white guy starts following me. Jackie’s my friend at the time; we’re not even dating yet. We were friends for three years before we started dating. And I said, “Jackie, this white guy’s following me everywhere. I don’t know what he wants.”
Ann: Did he not even talk to you?
Preston: Yeah, he would walk up to me and say—he wasn’t a creep. He would just say, “Man, I think you need somebody in your life. I see God has given you influence. I think that you’re a natural leader, all of these things, but you need to be up in the church home.” And so he would, just had this heart for me; that God gave him this heart for me. And I called Jackie, and Jackie originally told me, she was like, “Yeah, I don’t trust that. Run from him.” But then the Lord used Jackie, my friend, a couple of weeks later, she said, “I feel like the Lord is telling me to tell you that you’ve been praying for discipleship and maybe you shouldn’t—”
Jackie: I say, “I think God is answering your prayer in a package you didn’t expect.”
Preston: Yes, that’s what she said, in a package that you didn’t expect. Because I had this idea that “Man, I want a black strong man of God to disciple me. I’m going to wait.” And I would go around them and unfortunately none of them even had a culture of discipleship. And this guy came in and when he came in my life, he taught me so much. And then not only that, when the Lord put it on my heart to pursue Jackie, a couple of years later, he said, “I see that happening.” Gave Jackie a job. Jackie was working at Wendy’s in St. Louis; gave her a job for her to move to Chicago to work at a nonprofit. That’s how I was able to pursue her. And then he discipled us, marriage. And so man, if it wasn’t for him coming into my life, I probably wouldn’t have even been with Jackie.
Ann: How sweet of God.
Preston: So God is just very intentional. So don’t push away discipleship if it doesn’t come in the package that you think it should come in.
Ann: Jackie, what would you say to the women who are like, “That’s exactly what my husband needs. He needs somebody to disciple him. He needs to go after that. I’ve been trying to tell him.” What would you say to her when she’s trying to get up in his business of just saying, “This is what you need to do,” and “This is who you need to go to,” or he’s just rejecting it?
Jackie: One, you need it too. Okay, so let’s humble ourselves and see that we all need leadership and guidance, which I think can cultivate a level of humility and even empathy. But I think prayer. I think people think prayer is a cop out when prayer is really all we have.
Preston: That’s a word.
Jackie: When you can’t control things, all you can do is surrender. We can’t control what our spouses do, how they believe, how they move. We can influence or we can coerce, but the best thing to do is to pray. And so to just believe God on his behalf. And I think it’s really a church community problem. So the bigger question might be, what kind of church situation are we in? Where this actually isn’t a natural thing for there to be some type of discipleship. You know what I’m saying?
So are we in a small group where it wouldn’t be less about my husband needs one on one, but it’s like, no, we need a community. Do we have a church situation where we just go and leave? So I think that might be one of the methods is to just examine what kind of church are we in and is it a church that is not just discipling my husband, but discipling my family?
Ann: That’s good.
Jackie: I think that’s a perspective that we could work through.
Ann: I think too, I’ve found this with my kids even as they’ve gotten older, to say less and to pray more. And I think that needs to happen with our spouse. Of course we say it, but man, we have that; our husbands, our kids bathed in prayer. We’ve already gone to the Father over and over and over talking to Him about it. And he does. You’re right. We’re so flippant. Yeah, I’ll pray.
Jackie: Oh yeah.
Ann: But it’s not going to work.
Jackie: Yeah.
Ann: Yeah.
Jackie: Yeah, it’s the doubt, which is a double mindedness, right?
Ann: Yes.
Jackie: I was talking to Preston; I was listening to this sermon by John Piper called How God uses Satan. And I was thinking about how if God doesn’t control everything, then we actually can’t pray about everything. But if He can control everything, then we have the confidence that we can pray about everything.
Ann: Yeah, that’s good.
Jackie: That’s a game changer when you’re like, “Oh, this man, that little demon and devil, he can’t do nothing without God’s permission. Nothing happens in the world if God does not say so.” And so to me, that increases like, oh, I can pray for the big things, the small things, the medium things, the irritating thing. That is what it means to pray without ceasing. You can start praying without ceasing when you realize that you actually can’t control nothing.
Preston: And if we can meditate on that, I think it would just increase our faith.
Ann: Me too.
Preston: —to know that, yeah, we don’t probably get flesh and blood, but spiritual wickedness in high places, but we still are created by sovereign God who controls all. And so I think when we meditate on that, I think that we’ll be more free to come to the Lord and say, “Help me.”
Jackie: It’s not also as if when you pray God won’t commission you to move. The difference is the prayer gives you the wisdom on what to do. So I’ve had situations with Preston or with even people where I will pray and be like, “Lord, can you change their heart? Can you do this? Can you do that?” Well, I don’t want to be involved. But then the Lord will bring scriptures to mind where it’s like, “No, I want you to do this. I want you to say this. I want you to humble yourself.” I want you where it’s like, “Oh, you actually do want me to do something. I just needed to come to you to get the wisdom to know what to do first.” And so again, prayer has to be the first option.
Preston: Yeah.
Ann: I’ve shared this. This is on our Vertical Marriage small group, but I had gotten in an argument with then our oldest who was 13. It was before school, and I can fly off the handle and get a little too hot. And so we got in the car, and I said, “Hey, I’m sorry. I just totally over responded. I overreacted and I’m sorry for that, but I want to talk to you before you get out of the car,” as I’m driving him to school. And he sat in the passenger seat with his arms folded and would not look at me, would not say anything, and that makes me mad. So now like, “Hey, now don’t shut down on me. Let’s just talk about it. What were you feeling? What were you thinking?”
We pull up to the school and I’m like, “Just let’s say; let me pray for you.” He looks at me, he opens the car door, and he walks into the school. And now I’m like, “Oh.” So now I’m like, “What should I do? Should I go back and get him?”
Dave: Hey, just by the way—
Ann: Oh, is this in a bag?
Jackie: Prophetic bag.
Dave: This is in one of the bags I brought into our marriage; conflict. I was an avoider when conflict would happen, I—
Ann: Oh, he’d leave.
Dave: My oldest son, my oldest son is doing what I would do. I just walk out of the room, and she would attack.
Preston: Attack.
Ann: At this point, I’m not attacking, but what I first do is I’m trying to figure out, what should I do?
Jackie: You want to fix it?
Ann: Yes. That’s what I do. I fix it. I’m going to fix it. And so then I’m reminded of James, if any of you lacks wisdom, let him pray and ask God who gives what? generously for wisdom. And so Lord, give me wisdom. I wish we would do that more of just stop and pray and then wait.
Jackie: That’s good.
Ann: Does anything come to your mind? This image popped into my mind. I went home, I got this piece of paper, and I wrote a stick figure of a guy, a stick figure of a woman, and then I put this brick between us. That’s the image that came into my mind. So I’m like, “Alright, this is weird, Lord, but I’m going to do it.” Put it down on our son’s desk where he studies every night. He comes home, comes down; he goes upstairs to study, comes down with this paper, and goes, “Mom, is this your attempt at art. What in the world is this?” I’m like, “Oh, that’s what happened to us today. That’s me. That’s you. And that fight we had; that’s a brick. We formed a brick in our relationship.” He goes, “I’m not even mad.” I’m like, “Oh, I’m not mad, but it doesn’t mean the argument has been resolved. We’re just not mad. It’s there.” I said “CJ,” I said, “Dad and I travel around the country every day. We see couples who have a fight; they create a brick. They don’t resolve it; they don’t talk about it.”
Preston: Wow
Ann: “It doesn’t disappear. Then they have another fight and another fight.” And I did this whole wall, and I said, “Pretty soon there’s a wall between them. They can’t even talk.” And it’s so funny, as only a 13-year-old boy can do, he goes, “So how do we get rid of the brick?”
Jackie: That’s about right.
Preston: Hilarious.
Ann: But it was awesome because we talked about it, we prayed, we apologized, and then I took an eraser, and I erased it. I’m only saying that because when we lack wisdom, God steps in and he gives us wisdom through people, through the word, through his spirit. And so to wait on that, I thought that was a good word, but I think you’re right, Dave, that baggage that was in there, and that’s something we both carried in.
Dave: Yeah. Do you guys deal with that at all? I didn’t know I was bringing that in, but I brought in a belief about conflict, which is, and it’s again, family of origin. I watched two alcoholic parents fight and abuse each other and then get divorced. And I didn’t know this. I brought it into marriage thinking conflict is bad. You avoid it because it ends like this. So we get into a conflict, and I literally would walk out of the room. One of the chapters of our Vertical Marriage book is “Come Back Here and Fight Me Like a Man, You Chicken.” That’s what she said—
Preston: Oh wow.
Dave: —as I walk out because I’m like—
Jackie: Calling your husband a chicken.
Dave: I turned around—
Jackie: It’s crazy.
Dave: Oh it was awesome. I turn around and I curse at her, and then she double curses me. That’s our marriage in year one.
Ann: And we’re in ministry in year one.
Preston: I mean, that’s how it be.
Ann: Baby new Christians; we didn’t know.
Preston: In year one we didn’t like each other.
Ann: What?!
Dave: For the whole year or what?
Preston: We didn’t like each other because it was—
Jackie: I mean every other month.
Preston: Every other month. Because one, we’re friends with each other for three years before we got married. And we go into marriage and it’s like, “Who did I marry?” Because one, I think nobody really prepared us, even though we had people discipling us, they didn’t—I think marriage is the thing that prepares you for marriage.
Ann: Yes.
Preston: It’s like nothing would get you truly prepared other than doing it. Right. You know what I mean?
Ann: It’s all up here in head knowledge and then you live it out and it’s hard.
Preston: Absolutely. And so I didn’t even understand how hard it would be because of her past. In different stages, when you’re engaged, married, yada, yada, yada, your heart becomes more invested. But for her, the more invested her heart came, the more fearful she became. And so she began to back off of me and shut down really fast and stuff like that.
Ann: What was that, Jackie?
Jackie: I think it was a trauma response because it wasn’t like I was telling myself to shut down. I think subconsciously it’s just like my cortisol levels were out the roof. This is scary. All the things. But I think even to your point about communication styles, I think in light of that, Preston wanted to fix all the things, and the way he wanted to fix it was by rebuking me, all the time.
Ann: What did that sound like?
Preston: That’s what I was about to say next. So when we got in marriage, she was shut down. And in my mind, I had all of this idea about what being a leader is in my head and what I read from books, but I didn’t know how it looked fleshed out. And so I was a fixer. I’m always trying to fix things. It’s like I’m the leader, and so—
Jackie: You told me yourself; submit.
Preston: Submit to yourself. And it was just—
Ann: Wait, did he say it?
Jackie: I’m sure he said it with a softer tone, but the content is the problem. You could be soft all day, but you’re basically telling me to submit to you instead of asking me why I’m afraid.
Preston: Yeah, yeah.
Jackie: That’s a different method.
Preston: And one of the things that the Lord had to show me early on is that I became more of a Pharisee to her than Jesus. I’m always trying to expose sin. And it wasn’t to conform her to the image of Christ or wash her with the word, like Ephesians 5 says. It was, I’m trying to force her to come out of this little rut to fix my insecurity. I wasn’t trying to nourish her, to present her faultless before Christ. I’m trying to force her out of this thing so I can feel like a good husband, so I can feel good about myself, so I can feel like, “Oh, my wife was feeling this way, and I had a conversation and now we’re good.”
And so it wasn’t even about Jesus, more so than it was about my wounded ego. And so the Lord had to consistently remind me, no, in order for you to see what you want Jackie to display, you first have to display it. If you want her to be humble, you can’t tell her she’s being prideful. You have to display humility. If you want her to be patient, you can’t come to her with impatience. You have to display patience. And so I didn’t learn that until after year two, going into year three where I just relax. And I think young men who get married, they have a fear of failure. And so we try to force leadership instead of trying to model good leadership.
Jackie: That’s great.
Preston: I was trying to force leadership. I wasn’t trying to model it. And when I modeled it, Jackie started to just, I started to see my friend again. Because when we got married, I was like, “Where did my friend go?”
Jackie: She went in a hole, bucko. It’s scary out there.
Preston: And so when I saw the model, it’s like my force of leadership. It was kind like me covering her rose petals. And it’s like as soon as I saw the model that I saw, she started to bloom in our marriage before me and I was like, “Oh, this is what I needed to do the whole time.” It was really good.
Ann: When you guys first got married, Preston was saying how he was pressing you to submit and how he was wanting you to submit to his leadership. But what you wanted him to do was to ask you, what are you afraid of?
Jackie: Yeah.
Ann: So how would you coach a husband? That’s a pretty big deal to kind of ask that question. I don’t think I would’ve thought it. I don’t think Dave would’ve thought, “What are you afraid of?” Coach men up on; what could that look like?
Jackie: I think one, even Ephesians where it says, husbands love your wives, like Christ loves the church and gave himself up for her. And wives submit to your own husbands. Paul is talking directly to wives and basically saying that the husband does not force or demand submission. Submission is the wife’s willing activity towards the husband. And so it’s her will that’s a part of the thing.
And so I think for Preston, if he would’ve asked me that, it would’ve felt like one, you care. Two, you want to know me and see me and understand me. It would’ve even helped me because I didn’t know that my lack of submission was because of fear. I just knew I was bucking back and rebelling against all the things. And so I think even for him to have a kind of wisdom that you see Jesus have with the woman at the well. You see this curiosity about Jesus where in His ministry to people, He knows exactly why they’re doing the things they do, but He wants them to know it too.
So He asks questions to draw it out so they have an awareness. It’s like, “Oh, I’m afraid. Why am I afraid?” “Oh, because I’m afraid that you’ll control me, or I’m afraid that you’ll lead me down the wrong path. Or I’m afraid that you want to do bad things to me,” and all the stuff. Then I have opportunity to talk through or hear reassurance from you. Like, “No, I’m not trying to control you. I want the best for you. I want to do this.” So it opens up a conversation rather than all of this conflict and weirdness. That’s all. We all do something for a reason. That’s it.
Ann: So when he said, “You need to submit,” or if he ever would’ve said, “You need to submit,” what would you have said?
Jackie: That’s absolutely insane. That’s crazy. You’re talking to me like you lost your… Because it feels so, one, my temperament is I’m raised by a single mother, okay? Very independent, very capable, very efficient. And so I come into this marriage with this sense of, “I don’t even need you, bucko. I’m really good at life without you.” And so my temperament is already a little overly confident and prideful.
So I think for him to demand or what feels like a demand of submission feels like, oh yeah, that’s a no for me. And so I think that’s what it would’ve been, and that’s what it was until he became safe. I think God has the right to command submission even independent of the husband’s character, because I think that’s why Jesus like, “Hey, if you married somebody that’s not even a believer, then you still need to submit.” There still needs to be a quietness and a meekness about how you move.
Yet at the same time, the more secure he became, the more willing I became, the more consistent in my submission I became, because it became, I’m following a man who loves me, not a man who’s just trying to control me. And I think that’s the difference is that if Ephesians says, love your wives, like Christ loves the church giving himself up for her. Even notice throughout the text it says like Christ being a savior to the church. It doesn’t say a Lord to the church. And that’s on purpose.
Ann: That’s good.
Jackie: That’s on purpose because he wants to connect the husband’s role to the salvific role of Jesus, not simply the master lordship role of Jesus. He’s not calling husbands to be lords or masters. He’s calling them to be saviors and not salvific like you could save your wife, but this self-giving, this love, this intention, “I am here for you. I will die for you. And I will…” if husbands love like that, I actually think we would see more submission.
Ann: Who wouldn’t want to follow that?
Jackie: Yes.
Ann: Yes. I mean, this has really come down to our continual surrender to Jesus, our healer, our place of hope. He’s our refuge. He’s our strength. How are you guys doing that in this crazy season that you’re in of young kids, you’re traveling, you’re busy. How do you keep your walk with God vibrant?
Jackie: Perspective is everything because I am pretty convinced that we don’t have another option. And so I have no choice but to stay connected to the vines so that I might bear much fruit. And so I think that’s the thing is the perspective drives the behavior. It’s because I don’t have options I have to keep praying; because I don’t have options I have to keep fighting; because I don’t have options I have to stay connected to community; because I don’t have options, I need to confess so I’m not walking in pride because God resists the proud and give grace to the humble.
But I also think church is huge. The Lord has been kind to send us into another community where people are pursuing God with zeal. They love us as us. And so even that is helping to sustain us because I think for a long time, we felt like we were pursuing him with a certain zeal by ourselves, and which meant that we actually weren’t pursuing him with a certain zeal because we’re comparing us to them. And so now we say like, “Oh no, y’all actually, y’all can step it up a couple of notches.” So I think community perspective is a thing.
Preston: Yeah, I echo that. Also too, I think as a husband and as a leader, it’s my job to protect my family. And I think when we think about protection, sometimes we don’t think about protection spiritually. That’s our only protection; staying closer to the Lord. I be a fool not to stay closer to the Lord and not to encourage my family to stay closer to the Lord because the enemy hates that. And so for me, I’m always reminded to just beg God to help me so we can be safe. We can’t be out here with God things and changing people’s lives and not staying close to the vine. So I’m always reminded of that.
Ann: It’s funny, Jackie, I remember you were our first interview. Did you know that? First time that Dave and I—
Dave: When we became the host of FamilyLife.
Jackie: I was the first one?
Ann: You were.
Dave: You were the first one in Little Rock.
Jackie: Y’all did a fantastic job.
Ann: Well, the thing that I remember about it—
Dave: I remember you praying over it.
Ann: That’s what I was going to say. To see you both; God has anointed you. He’s equipped you. He has his hand on you. And I knew it when we were interviewing you. I thought, this woman, she’s going to be used by God in a powerful way. And it wasn’t a well, I’m so excited for you. But there’s another piece of me that’s I’m scared for you. I’m scared for the enemy of his plans and his strategies against you and Preston.
I remember praying for you with that in mind. Like, oh God, protect this couple, protect her so that Jesus would always be at the forefront. Because when you’re in ministry for a while, you know that there are other things that come into play and that you take your eyes off Jesus and you’re toast. I really love and respect you both for keeping the gospel at the forefront, for keeping your walk with God; that you’re desperate for Him. That’s what we feel like. We got nothing.
Preston: Yeah.
Ann: But we’ve got Jesus, or we’ve got the King of Kings and Lord of lords. And isn’t that everything? So thanks for your faithfulness.
Jackie: Thank you. I appreciate your prayers.
Dave: Well, we’ve been talking about in our marriages of keeping Jesus as the center, falling on our face before Him, surrendering daily. For us, it’s like talk about our walk with God together because I have my individual walk with God, but I’m one with her, so I don’t, this is us and so it’s like, what are you learning? What are you studying? What are you reading? It’s like, man, that’s got to be the center.
Jackie: And I would actually argue that the state of your marriage might reveal the state of your walk, right? Like patterns of disrespect, patterns of dishonor, patterns of low integrity that actually reveals where you actually are. And so I think God in His kindness has given us each other to low key continue to put us on our faces. That’s how I feel. It feels like this is the hardest thing I have to do. And so it must be the most sanctifying thing that I have to do. But if I lean into that, then everything else will actually reap the benefits. You know what I’m saying? It’s a backwards kind of situation.
Preston: One of the qualifications of an elder is he has to be a manager of the home. And I think God in his wisdom made it that way. I give my 9-year-old permission to be honest with me and she came to me. She said, “Dad, you haven’t been keeping your word.” I was like, “Whoa.” And the first thing I thought about was I’ve kept my word to every ministry obligation. That’s one of the first thing I thought about.
Ann: Oh. Yikes.
Dave: Yeah.
Preston: I’m there for every podcast interview. I’m there for every ministry opportunity. I’m on time. I’m the night parent. And so I tell them stories and we talk about the Bible at night, and I come home and a couple of times I just went to sleep without doing it. And she said, “You haven’t been keeping your promise.” It just hit me in my gut. And I was just like, wow. And that’s just, God just reminded me, no, this home needs to be tight before you go out and give the gospel to others.
Ann: That’s good.
Dave: We’re Dave and Ann Wilson, and you’ve been listening to an episode we did with Preston and Jackie Hill Perry, which was great stuff.
Ann: I love them.
Dave: I mean, it’s like every time they open their mouth, it’s like wisdom drips out.
Ann: It’s like gold nuggets fall out of their mouths.
Dave: I mean, every other sentence you just want to pause and go, okay, let’s consider that one. Even what Preston was saying there at the end about just taking time each night with his kids is powerful stuff. But let me say this to you. Things happen when we decide in our marriage to invest time and effort and resources to say we want to get better. And FamilyLife has a Weekend to Remember marriage getaway. I’m sure you’ve heard us talk about it many times but maybe you’ve never decided to actually do it. Can we challenge you to make this year—maybe this week or this month, or in the next couple months—the year you do it? And if you do it really soon, you can get a 50 percent off discount.
Ann: And these conferences really are life changing. So if you are going to sign up, sign up now because until January 20th, you will get 50 percent off your registration price. And this is for any conference anywhere in the nation.
Dave: So again, just go to FamilyLifeToday.com to sign up and we’ll see you back next time on FamilyLife Today.
Ann: FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife®, a Cru® Ministry. Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.

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