What Makes You Beautiful – Kristen Wetherall

Episode Transcript

Kristen (00:00:00):

There’s nothing wrong with beauty because God is a beautiful God. He’s a creator. He made everything that we see. I’ve been talking to my older two about this because they’re just really noticing body parts and faces and it’s like, yes, God made these things amazing. They’re curious. They’re wonderfully interesting because he made them. The question is, what matters most? What lasts forever?

Ann (00:00:27):

I think this is going to be a great conversation today because we’re talking about what makes you beautiful. Dave, what do you think makes you beautiful,

Kristen (00:00:36):

Aw, Dave.

Dave (00:00:37):

I don’t use that word when I think of me. Isn’t that interesting? I do think more female. I mean, is that the way I should think about it? When I think beauty though, I’m thinking we’re going to talk about girls and beauty. Does this book, What Makes You Beautiful: 20 Daily Devotionals for Girls? It’s not written for boys. I’m not saying you couldn’t write one for boys.

Ann (00:01:00):

Kristen Wetherell is with us, and she’s written this book. It’s going to be a good conversation because I think every single, especially girls, maybe guys do too, but we as women and girls we’re asking that question all the time. So let me ask you this right off the bat, Kristen, what are the lies we as women—or especially just girls because you’re focused on girls—what are the lies girls are believing?

Kristen (00:01:28):

Oh, so many. I mean, what are the lies that I’m believing as an adult? It’s the same. It doesn’t stop. It doesn’t end. So to give you some context, I have two daughters and a son.

Dave (00:01:40):

How old?

Kristen (00:01:40):

So an almost eight-year-old daughter, a five-year-old son and a two-and-a-half-year-old daughter. And so this book I wrote for my eight-year-old daughter when she was around five years old. I wrote this poem for her, and it was because we were very much into Disney princesses and that whole world.

Dave (00:02:00):

You’re in the land of Disney right now. You’re in Orlando.

Kristen (00:02:01):

We are, yes.

Ann (00:02:04):

You’re right. Little girls can be consumed; I was. I was like, “I am Cinderella.”

Kristen (00:02:10):

Yes. Well, because we’re made for beauty. God made us for beauty.

Ann:

So that’s why you think we’re drawn toward that.

Kristen:

We’re drawn toward beauty, and the world is drawn toward beauty. Unfortunately, the world has constructed this vision of beauty that we don’t see in scripture. So what we get to do as parents—it’s a delightful thing—we get to rebuild a biblical construct and give them that construct. But man, the lies that I even saw my little one believing is that what makes me beautiful is the way that I look, the way that I look. And if I don’t like certain things about the way that I look, and this is something that I still deal with to this day, then I must not be very beautiful.

We also see, I think, lies about—we’re very performance oriented, especially nowadays when you can broadcast everything that doing online and receive people’s approval for it. I think we very much believe the lie that I am what I achieve. I am what I do. And I even see that within my kids.

Dave (00:03:12):

Now, that’s a boy lie.

Kristen (00:03:13):

Yeah, for sure, a human lie.

Dave (00:03:16):

I mean girls too but man, that one jumps straight to men and boys. I am what I do, what I accomplish.

Ann:

For sure.

Kristen (00:03:22):

And then as humans, we want to be loved. We are created by a God who is love and we want to be loved, but we can so easily believe the lie that I’m only beautiful if I’m loved by certain people.

Dave (00:03:34):

I mean, what is the lie you two women as you go back and even, and maybe it’s still bombarding your brain, but even what you just said about being a princess, you thought you’ve said it here before, you thought you were Skipper. Is it Skipper?

Ann:

Oh yeah.

Dave (00:03:52):

Or is that Barbie?

Kristen:

Oh, Barbie Skipper.

Ann:

Yeah, because I grew up and Disney was a big thing; Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty. I mean at least now the princesses have become a little more real in terms of body shape, some of that but I had a Barbie, and I thought, “I’m going to look just like this. I’m going to look like Malibu Barbie.” And so I kept waiting and I wasn’t allowed to have a Barbie. My sister was, my older sister was, I had Skipper who’s the little sister, and she’s very, her shape is just very straight. She has flat feet. Barbie always stood on her toes and Barbie was voluptuous and Skipper’s just like a boy, but with long hair. And I thought, “I’m Skipper now, but one day I’m going to be Barbie.”

Kristen:

I’m going to be Barbie.

Ann:

And I kept waiting and waiting and waiting. And I never got—I thought I was going to be super tall. And so when I didn’t become Barbie, I was like, “Oh, I am not beautiful.” Because Barbie’s beautiful and Skipper’s just kind of, she’s kind of plain.

Dave (00:05:00):

But I’m the guy here.

Kristen (00:05:02):

You’re the guy here.

Dave (00:05:02):

And what I would say when I saw Ann in high school, I thought she was gorgeous. She didn’t. She had this Skipper mentality. And for years, even early in our marriage, Kristen, I’d be like—because she’d say something about her looks and I’d be like—I thought she was kidding. She didn’t really believe what she was saying. “I’m not that beautiful. I’m not”—I’d be like—and I responded totally wrong. Instead of saying, “You think that that is not true? You are gorgeous and here’s what God says.” I would be like, “Come on. There’s no way you think that.” So I poo-pooed it and it hurt her. I honestly thought, “You don’t look in the mirror and see what I see. You are gorgeous.” She saw Skipper.

So isn’t that the thing that happens in a woman’s brain is she could even actually be physically by the world standards a beautiful woman and still doesn’t see that. She sees the lies that I’m not. Is that what you deal with?

Kristen (00:06:01):

Absolutely. And it’s especially hard nowadays because we’re such a visual culture, right?

Dave (00:06:06):

You’re bombarded every second.

Kristen (00:06:07):

Bombarded with images.

Ann (00:06:09):

The other thing that the lie that I believed in my twenties is when I’m in my fifties and sixties, I’ll have it so figured out. And by that time you don’t even care. You’re so old, you don’t care what you’re going to look like. It gets worse in terms of like, oh, everything’s falling apart. And now you really have to get into what’s inner beauty. What were some lies? Did you believe some lies?

Kristen (00:06:34):

Yeah. Well, I would say probably high school into college years were incredibly formative for me in terms of the Lord deconstructing that worldview and building a biblical one.

Ann:

Did you grow up in a Christian home?

Kristen:

I did. Praise God. Yeah, my parents love the Lord. And we grew up going to church on Sundays, and I would see my mom with her Bible out every morning. She would say, Jesus was waiting for me in my Bible.

Ann (00:07:03):

That’s like in your head.

Kristen (00:07:04):

Oh, it’s huge. It’s huge.

Ann (00:07:05):

That’s a good point to hear moms.

Kristen (00:07:09):

So important and yet I’m a human being. So you go to school, you see other girls and what they’re doing and what they’re wearing, and you see things on magazines, and you read things in books, and you watch movies, and you realize I’m a sponge and all of these influences are affecting my heart and my mind. And that’s another testament right to the power of God’s Word and getting God’s Word into my heart, in my mind, to replace those things.

But I would say in college, I’ve always been an overachiever. I’ve always been a perfectionist, very type A. And so when I have a goal, I go for it. And in college I decided I’m going to become a runner. More than that, I’m going to become a triathlete. I’m going to learn how to swim, bike and run. My mom was doing sprint triathlons. And I think somewhere along that process I just became way too rigid in tracking my workouts, counting my protein, counting my calories. I was super restrictive with sugar and desserts, and it really wasn’t good for me. And so I would say I struggled with a disordered view of the body and of eating. I wouldn’t say I struggled with an eating disorder, but perhaps a disordered view. And it took a Lyme disease diagnosis and the Lord leveling me and not being able to do any of those things anymore to realize that I am not what I do.

(00:08:44):

I am not the way that I look. I am in Christ. That is who I am. That is my identity. He tells me my worth and my value and what makes me beautiful. And so when I saw these things coming up in my oldest girl—

Ann (00:08:59):

Wait a minute. I want you to sit there for just a second because I can tell that was a big deal.

Kristen:

It was a big deal.

Dave (00:09:05):

This was still in college?

Ann (00:09:07):

When you had Lyme, was there a time that you remember, “I can’t. I can’t do this”?

Kristen (00:09:14):

Yeah, it was a slow process. I wasn’t diagnosed with Lyme until after Brad and I got married. So I spent about six years—

Dave (00:09:21):

Not knowing?

Kristen (00:09:22):

—not knowing and seeing every physician and every specialist, only to be told your blood work, your tests came up fine. It must be in your head.

Dave (00:09:33):

Really.

Kristen:

And I was not well, and I could hardly walk a block from our apartment. So it really was—I remember staring out—after Brad and I got married—our sliding door window and it was raining outside, sort of felt like a metaphor for my life. But Psalm 46 came into my head, “The Lord of hosts is with us.” We will not fear no matter what happens, no matter what comes. I just had this assurance that the Lord was beside me. He was within me. He was before me was I was flanked. I was surrounded by him. And that really was huge because it took a lot of stripping Kristen away, these ideals for what I thought my life would be, these beauty ideals, right?

Ann (00:10:22):

Yeah.

Kristen (00:10:23):

Stripping those away to really become the person God wants me to be. And that’s completely reliant upon Him and reliant upon His word. It was painful, but it was a good stripping.

Dave (00:10:36):

Yeah. I mean it sounds hard. How long was that stripping? Was it years? Months?

Kristen (00:10:42):

My whole life. Can I say that?

Dave:

Really?

Kristen:

It’s still going. It’s still going until I meet Jesus. But no, there wasn’t a moment that I remember putting my trust in Him. I just know that He saved me at some point when I was young. And so it’s been a lifetime really, I think, of learning who Jesus is and as a result of that, learning who I am.

Dave (00:11:05):

How did Brad respond when you were walking through the, “You’re okay. Your blood work’s fine”? Is there something he did that was great or was it hard for him? Was it good for you the way he responded?

Kristen (00:11:19):

Oh man, I’m a crier, you guys. I’m going to cry.

Ann:

I like it.

Kristen:

So Brad is one of the most patient and compassionate people that I’ve ever met. It’s one of the reasons I love him so much. But he was so understanding, and we only dated for about eight months before we got engaged. And then our engagement was about nine months. So we really didn’t know each other a super long time. But ever since he met me, I was sick, and I was not well. I was in that six-year process of trying to figure this out. And from the moment we started dating and he knew that that was a part of my life, his commitment was no question. It’s just “I’m with you. I’m with all the way.” So I’m grateful.

Dave (00:12:04):

So even as you get married, he understands better and worse, in sickness and in health.

Kristen (00:12:09):

Oh, truly.

Dave (00:12:10):

Because most of us walk in, oh, it’s going to be health, it’s going to be better.

Kristen:

You assume.

Dave:

You don’t expect that. But he already knew the reality that I’m choosing, this could be—

Kristen (00:12:18):

Yeah. I remember him saying something like, along the years of my life, I feel that I’ve always been the spectator of someone else’s suffering. He had two brothers who were diagnosed with leukemia two weeks apart: a six-month-old and a four-year-old. And so his parents were holding onto the Lord as they walked with their sons through this leukemia. And Brad was six or seven and it was such a nightmare. It was such a hard thing. And so I think he—

Ann:

Did they live?

Kristen:

They are alive.

Ann:

Both?

Kristen:

Both.

Ann:

Wow.

Kristen:

We love Davis and Matt so much. We’re so grateful for their lives, but this was a huge formative part of his story. And then he marries a woman with Lyme disease. Certainly even since marriage, we’ve seen our share of hardship and the daily trials of trusting God with your kids and with work and with whatever but—

Ann (00:13:12):

What would you say to the woman who feels like she’s suffering, she’s really struggling, and her husband isn’t there for her? He’s not compassionate.

Dave (00:13:20):

Like Brad.

Ann (00:13:20):

Yeah.

Kristen (00:13:21):

Yeah. It makes me think about the man of sorrows, well acquainted with grief and pain. Jesus knows. Read Isaiah 53; sit in it. Because my husband’s not perfect, nor am I. And so there are days when we fail each other and we’re not there in the way that we would want the other person to be, but Jesus doesn’t fail you. He will not fail you. And He not only won’t fail you; He understands because He walked through such suffering for your sake. So yeah, lean into the man of sorrows. That’s what I’d say.

Ann:

That’s good.

Dave (00:14:00):

You said the Lyme disease and walking through that took you to the bottom and you started to understand beauty different. That was your original question. How did that shape how you thought about your own beauty or the lies you bought into?

Kristen (00:14:15):

I think anyone who goes through chronic illness or any kind of disease, it reawakens you to the brevity of life and to the frailty of your flesh, right? At any point, anything could be taken away. None of us know when our last breath is going to be or our last day is going to be. And so what lasts? Isaiah says, ”The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of God endures forever.” So I want that word in my heart. I want to be cultivating the heart that lasts forever. And the other good news of the Christian message is we also get a new body, which is going to be pretty awesome. I cannot wait for my resurrection body. I think I’m going to be doing sprint triathlons in glory. So we not only get a new body, but our souls will last forever. And so what are we cultivating there? Are we tending the garden of our hearts? I think that’s what I was learning.

Ann (00:15:19):

I like learning all of that about you because it makes sense why this has become a passion. And now having two daughters, you want them to get it, especially in a world that can feel crushing to a girl as they’re defining what beauty is to every one of our girls, to our boys too but to our girls, they are discipling our daughters and granddaughters and telling us what true beauty is. And if we don’t know what it is from the Word and if they don’t know, they’ll be sucked right into the culture.

Kristen (00:15:51):

That’s right.

Ann (00:15:51):

So what was going on with your five-year-old that you thought “She needs to get this”?

Kristen (00:15:58):

Well, I already mentioned Disney princesses, we’re all—and I love Disney princesses. I’m all about it, but it’s so funny to this day, my sweet daughter will—we get to the end of Beauty and the Beast and here I am, I’m a crier. I’m crying again because the beast is just such a picture of the resurrection. I’m like, “Here he is. He’s got this new life because love brought him to life.” And my daughter just looks at me and goes, “Mom, again” because I want to explain it to them again. I’m like, “Honey, I can’t help it.” God’s story isn’t every other story. We just have to look for it. So we’re trying to teach her God’s story in all of these other fairytales. But one day I just decided I want to write a picture book for my five-year-old. I want to write her something that will delight her, that will be beautiful. And so I wrote this poem that is now in the front of this girl’s devotional and sent it off to the publisher and they said, “We love this. We want it to be for older girls. It’s a bit abstract for younger girls so can we expand it? Can we make it a resource that’s more devotional in nature?” And I was all for that, so we just got to work on it. But that’s really where it came from, is a desire to give my daughter a better and truer message than the world is giving them today.

(00:17:18):

So that’s where the book came from.

Dave (00:17:20):

I’ve seen you do the poem on YouTube. Do you have it memorized? Because on YouTube you did?

Kristen (00:17:26):

Oh my goodness.

Dave (00:17:26):

Or was that a script? Can you read it?

Kristen (00:17:27):

I was reading it, I confess. I would love to read it for you though I’m not sure that I have it memorized.

Ann (00:17:32):

At least parts of it. And I wanted you to know Kristen, as we were going through a bunch of authors and as we’re going through books of inviting people to be on our show, we were talking about this book. Your book I got on Amazon, and I sent it to my nine-year-old at the time, nine-year-old granddaughter—now she’s ten—and it was interesting because I was just with her a few weeks ago, and I said, “So what did you think of the devotion?” And I love it because they’re short, they’re simple, they have discussion questions. And I had said, “You should read this with your mom, the two of you should read it together.” And so I said, what did you think? She goes, “I liked it because I felt like it was a really good reminder of what beauty is.” And I said, “So what is beauty?” And she said, “It’s way more than our outward appearance.” And so I was like, “Yes, Kristen, good job.”

Kristen (00:18:29):

Praise God.

Ann (00:18:29):

I know. And we talked about it quite a bit, which is pretty cool that you can have those conversations with a daughter or even a granddaughter and for them to get it.

Kristen:

Oh, praise God.

Ann:

I think it relieves them of the pressure they feel.

Kristen (00:18:43):

Thank you for sharing it with her. Yeah, my daughter is only seven right now, so she’s a little below the quote target. So we’ve been doing it together slowly and that’s been really good for us, good for our relationship. And so I hope moms and daughters will read it together.

Ann (00:18:58):

I know they will.

Kristen (00:18:59):

So I’ll just read a small portion toward the end here.

What makes you beautiful, my dear,

Is not your eyes, your ears, your nose,

The face that your reflection shows.

It’s not about the things you do,

The gifts and work God’s given you,

The risks you take, the friends you make,

Or beauty for pure beauty’s sake.

It’s not what people say or do—

But what God says is true of you.

For God says beauty is the art

Of loving him with all your heart.

He says that knowing him means more

Than all the knowledge you could store,

And all the places you could go,

And all the people you could know,

And all the pretty, lovely things

That you could wear, like diamond rings

And trendy clothes with all the frills—

For knowing Christ is better still.

Ann (00:19:48):

Yeah, that’s so good. Well, our audio engineer has four daughters. And so Bruce is his name and Maria is his wife. And they asked Bruce—are you going to come on and let us hear this? They recorded them asking, what is it? What did you ask, Bruce?

Bruce (00:20:08):

Maria asked them, “What makes someone beautiful?”

Ann (00:20:11):

What makes someone beautiful?

Dave:

So how old are they?

Bruce (00:20:15):

Four, six, and nine.

Dave:

Let’s hear it.

Ann (00:20:18):

So the four, six and nine-year-old answered.

Bruce (00:20:21):

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Here I’ll play it. It’s kind of hard to understand. She did it in the kitchen and the nine-month-old was not cooperating.

Goff Family (00:20:33):

Celeste, what makes somebody beautiful?

(00:20:36):

They may have a shirt on or a dress.

(00:20:40):

In their hair.

Oh, okay.

(00:20:43):

It’s beautiful because the person has nice earrings.

(00:20:50):

What else?

(00:20:54):

A nose ring.

(00:20:55):

Okay.

(00:20:57):

What makes somebody beautiful?

Jesus in their heart.

Jesus in their hearts, and the nose ring.

Dave (00:21:10):

Yeah, combine those two. You got it.

Ann:

Isn’t that sweet?

Kristen:

It’s precious.

Ann:

And Bruce and Maria, they’re all about discipling their girls, knowing Jesus, knowing the Word. So it’s cool to see that. And I like Kristen that you talk about there’s nothing wrong with beauty.

Kristen (00:21:25):

Exactly. That’s what I was just thinking. Their answers are, right, because God is a beautiful God. He’s a creator. He made everything that we see. And so I’ve been talking to my older two about this because they’re just really noticing features. They’re noticing body parts and faces, and it’s like, yes, God made these things amazing. They’re curious. They’re wonderfully interesting because He made them. The question is, what matters most? What lasts forever? Because these things can be taken away in an instant. And so if those define my beauty, then that means I’m no longer beautiful, and that’s just not true. So I think we can put a right emphasis on these things, but not a total emphasis on them.

Ann (00:22:13):

I like that. And to not let them feel guilty to want to wear a pretty dress or to do their nails or their hair. And I think that that’s important too, but that’s not what brings our fulfillment. I remember my best friend was my sister, and she died at 45.

(00:22:31):

And gosh, I’ll cry thinking about this. And I was 39, and I remember I’m sitting beside her. This is the last few weeks of her life and we’re worshiping, we’re talking, we’re praying, we’re reading scripture. And then she was sleeping, and I was looking through this decorating magazine, going through house stuff, and she woke up, and she goes, “Oh, what are you looking at?” And she loved decor. She loved beauty, she loved clothes, all of it, very feminine. And I said, “Oh, I don’t even want to tell you because I feel so guilty looking through this when it doesn’t even matter. This doesn’t matter compared to life.” And she said, “But isn’t it sweet that God gave us such fun on this earth while we’re here and we can decorate things, and we can dress a certain way and it’s just a pleasure if we have our focus?”

(00:23:22):

And I thought she probably weighed about 80 pounds at that point. And her hope wasn’t in her hope wasn’t in this earth or the things that bring us pleasure on this earth, her eyes were on Jesus and the eternal. And that’s the thing that we get to do as moms. We get teach our girls. That’s where the beauty lies is with Jesus within us. And then we can still play and have some fun. But man, how do you, and how will you allow your girls to know that but not to get sucked in? Especially as teenagers when right now YouTube is so big with makeup, hair, skin products. It’s a big deal. I have these granddaughters and nieces, they’re like, “Let’s go to look at all the skincare products.” I’m like, “What?!” Not only makeup, but how to have your skin look a certain way. And so what’s the balance as a mom and what are you saying to them?

Kristen (00:24:27):

And I think what we model matters as moms, because if I’m spending hours in front of the mirror that’s communicating something, and this is not a rule, this is not prescriptive for anyone listening, but I try to just not wear makeup a few times a week. And it’s honestly intentional. Some days I just don’t have time, or I don’t want to but it’s intentional because I want them to know this is me. And you don’t have to wear makeup to be beautiful.

Ann (00:25:00):

That’s good.

Kristen (00:25:01):

And so I think what we model really matters. We can say whatever we want, but if we’re not walking the talk, if what we’re doing talking about, if we’re tearing ourselves down in front of our kids: “Look at these wrinkles on my face.”

Ann (00:25:18):

“I’m so fat. I need to lose weight”—to say those things.

Kristen (00:25:22):

“I need to lose weight,” “This shirt looks terrible on me.”

Dave (00:25:25):

You guys are good at this. You’ve done this a few times.

Kristen (00:25:28):

Because we know it. And I think that really matters. It really matters what we model. And that’s not to put undue pressure on any of us because I certainly—no, I don’t do it perfectly, but I think it is to call moms and dads to something greater and to model for their kids what God really wants for us.

Ann (00:25:52):

And I do think, Dave, you talked about this with guys, but girls feel it too. That sense of pressure on our performance. We have to perform a certain way or achieve certain things in order to be liked or loved.

Dave (00:26:05):

And I think there’s pressure for guys too, to be beautiful—may use a different word, but I remember years—it’s been decades now, but I was coaching middle school boys in basketball, and I had this realization. I was like, “Hey, you guys go skins. You guys go shirts. We’ll have scrimmage.” And they looked at me like, “You want me to take my shirt off?” “Yeah, we don’t have jerseys, so just take your shirt off. You’ll be”—they literally said no. Now when I was growing up, shirt skins never even blinked. And I realized, oh my goodness, they’re walking through aisles every day. There’re guys on these covers that look perfect. I’m not saying we didn’t have that in my generation, but there were—

Ann (00:26:46):

Even the mannequins are ripped.

Dave (00:26:48):

They’re just ripped.

Kristen:

And muscularly.

Dave:

These boys were embarrassed of their bodies, and they don’t want to show them. And I’m like, you can’t ask a boy to do that anymore. And they have the same thoughts in their brains that girls do about bodies. It’s very important.

Ann (00:27:03):

And performance.

Dave (00:27:03):

And they have a sense that I am how I look, just like a girl. I think it’s different, but I think it’s very similar.

Kristen (00:27:12):

And I’m noticing too, the culture nowadays in a good way is pushing back a little bit—

Ann:

I do too.

Kristen (00:27:18):

—against Barbie, right?

Dave:

Yeah, yeah.

Kristen (00:27:19):

She’s actually disproportionate because the research showed that she would fall over or something because disproportionate. So we’re pushing back in a lot of really good ways. And yet sexuality, the display of our body, no matter what shape you are, is a thing. And so an older mom from our church gave me this phrase, but I love it, and I will share it. Give them privacy with your eyes. The pool in the summer is such a hard place to be. We’ll talk about that. Give them privacy with your eyes. They’re made in the image of God.

Ann:

What does that mean? Explain it.

Kristen:

It means look at their face. We don’t need to be ogling, which is easier said than done when everyone’s wanting to be ogled at, right? But I love that phrase, give people privacy with your eyes, respect them.

Dave (00:28:07):

It’s like honor.

Kristen:

And honor them.

Ann (00:28:09):

What would you say to the mom who has—even high school girls—and I remember being, I didn’t grow up in a Christian home. This stuff was all very new to me. Even modesty, like what? What’s modesty? Why would we even want to do that?

(00:28:22):

But I remember my discipler saying, “Your beauty comes from within, and this is really what matters.” I’m like, “Okay, I get that, but it doesn’t matter to the world.” I know that God loves me. He thinks I’m beautiful, he thinks I’m blah, blah, blah, but everybody out there is judging me on the outward. And so how do I get around that? Because I am content, but the world isn’t content and the world is judging me continually, even with jobs, even with classes, professors, professionalism. We are all judged by our outer appearance. So how do I not let that be the priority? And how do I continually keep Jesus as my inward beauty as the thing that matters the most?

Kristen (00:29:12):

Yeah. Well, so we’re talking about the world’s influence, the world’s voice being spoken into our minds. So we need a different voice. We need God’s voice. And so when we open our Bibles, we’re hearing His voice. We’re hearing Jesus speak to us as if He’s sitting right next to us. We’re hearing His promises to us. We’re hearing Him pray for us. We’re hearing His good and loving commands so that we will flourish. And so I think we have to just imbibe ourselves with God’s voice before we can go out into the world. Because not only will that be stronger than the world’s voice, but we’ll be able to interpret what we’re hearing through the right lens at that point. But honestly, I also think about—

Ann (00:30:03):

That’s really good, by the way.

Kristen (00:30:05):

Oh, good. I’m also thinking about Paul saying, I have become all things to all people that I might save some. And by that he means so that Jesus will save them, right? And Paul doesn’t mean I’m going to toss God’s word and Christian values into the toilet. That’s not what he means. He means I’m going to enter into the world. I’m going to be in the world, but not of it. I’m going to meet people where they’re at in order that the good news of Jesus might be brought to them. So God knows we’re in the world. He knows what’s in this world and we’re ambassadors for Christ. And so it makes me think what an opportunity then to look different.

Kristen (00:30:50):

What an opportunity to speak differently, to have a different hope. Because there will be times when people take notice and Peter says, be prepared to give a reason for the hope that you have when the door opens.

Ann (00:31:04):

I love that.

Kristen (00:31:05):

So are we prepared for that? Are we keeping ourselves in the Word? Are we prepared?

Ann (00:31:09):

And I think as we do that, because I’m all about the Word. I have to be in it every day or else I’m just, I drift into the culture’s views. But when I’m in the Word and I remember who I am in Him, who He is, what happens is you have a different kind of confidence. It’s not in your abilities necessarily or, but it’s in like, I am a child of the King. I represent; I’m an ambassador of the King of Kings. And so there’s a confidence that we can walk in and are we going to try to make ourselves look, on the outside, good? Yeah. What’s appropriate. And so I think there is something to, there’s that beauty that comes from within.

Kristen (00:31:54):

And I think too, Christians will discern with the help of God’s spirit. Do I stay or do I go?

Ann:

What do you mean?

Kristen:

Do I fight or do I flee? Right? So is God giving you the spiritual strength to stay in a hard environment? So I studied music theater in college. I got my BFA, and I wanted to perform on stage. I wanted to go to New York. So I lived there for a year just to see. I had a sense that maybe it wasn’t what God was calling me to, but I thought, if I don’t go now, I won’t go. So right after graduation, I moved to New York. And for me, I could not stay in that kind of an environment. It was so dark. There was so much pressure to be the product, to be that worldly standard of beauty, to conform. And I discerned that God is not calling me to stand. He’s not calling me to stay. Now for another person—there are Christians in the theater world, and they are a light for Christ, and they’re ambassadors for him.

Ann:

They’ve been called.

Kristen:

And God has called them to stay. So I think we just have to discern too. Where is God calling me?

Ann:

That’s good. Yeah.

Dave (00:33:04):

Yeah. And there’s a sense, even when you talked about Paul saying all things to all men, there’s a sense that if we want to win and save, we want God to use this to lead people to Christ, then our appearance matters. If I’m going to walk on stage and preach, I think about what I’m wearing, not to impress, but to make sure. If I’m going to be a keynote at a business lunch, which I’ve done many times, I don’t walk in there shabbily dressed. I’ve got to walk on stage where they go, “Okay, this guy looks like us. He cares about how he”—again, it’s not the most important thing, but I am dressing not to impress them, but to win them. And I’ve got to have a first impression where they go, “Okay, I like this guy. Now I’m going to listen to what he said.” Am I right? It’s even bigger, even bigger for women, of course. I mean, you guys walk in a room—I don’t know.

Ann (00:33:54):

No, I think you’re totally right.

Dave (00:33:55):

I mean, you’ve said even at the weekend, remember when you talked to the wives? I know you’ve said, “Every woman here has noticed every woman here.” I think that’s more than men notice. We notice but you, right?

Ann (00:34:07):

Well, there’s a point where you could dress in a way that’s a distraction.

Kristen (00:34:12):

That’s what I was thinking.

Ann (00:34:13):

You were.

Kristen (00:34:13):

Yeah. Well, Dannah Gresh has a great distinction. She says, and I’ve been sharing this with my older daughter lately, “Is what you are wearing or the way that you’re presenting yourself saying, ‘Look at me,’ or is it saying, ‘Look at Him’?” Because there’s a way to do that like you’re saying getting up on stage. You want to honor God. He’s an excellent God. So let’s dress excellently, but not in a way that says, “Look at me,” not in a way that’s distracting.

Ann (00:34:39):

I don’t want them to be watching me thinking, “Where did she get that bracelet?” Or “Those are the coolest shoes,” which is great. I hope they like them, but I don’t want them to not hear the words.

Kristen:

—the message.

Ann:

Our vision at FamilyLife is every home a godly home, and we need your help to get there. When you become a FamilyLife Partner, your monthly support makes that vision actually possible.

Dave (00:35:05):

Yeah, you’ll get access to exclusive updates and events and the chance to join our Partners only online community. But more than that, you’re helping change the future of families. So the question is, will you come alongside us and alongside families in need?

Ann (00:35:20):

You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com and read more about it and become a Partner. Just click the donate button at the top, and again, that’s FamilyLifeToday.com.

Dave (00:35:31):

Okay, back to our conversation.

Ann (00:35:34):

It’s very easy today—it has been for me for years, and maybe for guys too—when you try on a pair of pants, your mood can be determined by how they are fitting.

Kristen (00:35:45):

Yes.

Ann (00:35:46):

And if they’re too tight and they’ve been like that for months, your whole mood can go in the tank. And so I’m telling you, that’s why I have to be in the word to be reminded who I am, who he is, because there’s so many things that can affect how we feel about ourselves. And as you get older, there’s so many physical frailties. And I think about my mom with Alzheimer’s, and she lost a whole sense of herself and beauty, and yet there’s still that part of her that we could see: “There she is.” It’s this beauty of the soul.

Dave (00:36:20):

And are you saying, the two of you, that when a woman does that—puts on her pants and they’re tighter than she wants—and again, I know we look in the mirror, “I’m going to take care of that. I’m going to lose the weight” or whatever so you have that struggle. But are you saying that that woman or that guy understanding identity and beauty in Christ is able to go, “I’m still beautiful. I’m still okay. I’m still treasured,” and it’s real to the depth of his or her soul?

Kristen (00:36:54):

A hundred percent.

Ann:

It doesn’t mean it’s easy to do.

Dave (00:36:55):

Because that woman wants to know that.

Kristen (00:36:57):

You have to preach to yourself.

Ann:

That’s good.

Dave (00:37:00):

She wants to know that’s possible.

Ann (00:37:02):

But I think Dave, one of the biggest things, as you’re talking Kristen, is if your daughter is a preteen. Preteen girls, we tend to get a little heavier as we’re about to grow. And I’ve had so many moms say, “I don’t know what to do. She’s getting fat. I don’t know how to talk about this. I don’t know that balance. And I’m struggling with it myself. And I even say to her like, ‘Oh, I’m changing my eating and I’m eating well,’ and blah.” It just becomes this such a convoluted, messy thing with daughters, as the mom has always felt the pressure. And not to put that on the daughters.

(00:37:41):

And I’m telling you, if you’re feeling that, this book is the way to go. Read this with your girls, be in the Word, and if you’ve never done that, maybe you’ve even talked to your girls about this is really important. You need to eat; you need to be thin. Maybe you say, “I think I’ve gotten this wrong. I feel like maybe I need to redo some things.” What would you say, Kristen, to the mom and her daughter that she’s like, “I’m struggling with this.” Would you encourage her to go through that book with her girls?

Kristen (00:38:12):

I would say I’m still struggling with this.

Ann:

Me too.

Kristen:

I would say it’s just never too late. A wise mom said to me once, “It’s never too late to make a change, especially when your kids are still under your roof and you are the primary voice and the primary influence over them.” Just asking God, what do you have for me? What does your Word say? And so I hope that this book gets them in the Word, because my voice doesn’t matter, what I have to say doesn’t matter if it’s not backed here in the scriptures. So I pray that it gives them a good starting point, some conversation starters. And yeah, those topics are hard. It makes me think about our bodies being a temple of the Holy Spirit. They are vessels. They’re tents. They’re temporary. They’re just kind of up by pegs and ropes. But we’re here for a time. And so what does it look like to steward what God has given me without worshiping what God has given me? There’s a difference.

Ann:

That’s a good way to put it.

Dave (00:39:15):

How can husbands and dads speak the right messages into their wives and daughters, and sons, but—

Ann (00:39:26):

Especially to their wives and daughters?

Dave (00:39:27):

Yeah. I mean, I’m sitting here as a husband and dad going, man—we never had daughters—but what would I have said? How would I do it?

Ann (00:39:36):

You have granddaughters.

Dave (00:39:37):

The modeling is huge for a man of granddaughters or daughters. They’re watching like how do you look at women? How do you talk about women? So the words are important, but I throw it out to you two, talk to the husbands and dads. How can we influence in a positive, godly way the way our daughters and our wives think about beauty?

Kristen (00:40:01):

Such a good question. And I just love my husband so much, and so I want to use him again as an example here because I think he does this so well.

Dave (00:40:09):

I got to meet this guy.

Kristen (00:40:10):

I think Brad’s great. I think about at the end of Ephesians, husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, washing her. And so your voice really matters.

(00:40:24):

You are in a sense, God’s voice to your family. So don’t hear me wrong. You are not God. That’s not what I’m saying. But you are in a sense, because you are to reflect Christ and His love for the church. You are in a sense God’s voice to your family members. And so Brad will always say to me, when I’m struggling with my appearance or something like that, he will always say to me, “Are you listening to my voice? Because you’re beautiful and I need you to believe me.” And he has sometimes said to me too, “When you don’t believe me, it almost hurts a little bit because I want you to. I want my voice to matter in your life.” And isn’t how God feels about us. He wants His voice to matter in our lives. So what are you speaking in front of your kids to your wife?

Kristen (00:41:14):

It’s amazing to me the amount of wives that I hear, sadly, say that their husbands are critical of them. And that will speak something to your daughters if you have them, and to your sons about how they are to treat women. But if you’re speaking life to them, is the Word in your heart, is the Word on your mind? If you’re speaking life to them, that makes a huge difference. And so I love it because Brad will say that to me. He’ll look at our sweet girls, and he’ll say, “You are so beautiful.” Just a simple thing. Again, not to exalt what they’re wearing, not to exalt even the way that they look, but to celebrate how God’s made them.

Ann (00:41:57):

I’m thinking about one of our granddaughters. Every night she goes to bed, her mom and then another one, her dad. But I remember her mom is still saying, “You’re beautiful. You’re kind. You’re generous. You’re strong. You’re brave.” And it’s been interesting. That’s been since she was an infant. And so now as she’s gotten older, I can hear her repeat those words to her friends, to her brother, to her—it’s the sweetest thing of, this is who I am. And there are things that God, it’s not just, she says, “You’re beautiful,” and her dad says it all the time, but it’s also those other character qualities that are meshed in there too. “You’re kind and you’re generous. You’re joyful.” Things that, and for a parent to say, and they mark our family. And for a dad, I feel like dad’s words are weighty.

Kristen:

Weighty.

Ann:

Especially with their daughters. And so I can remember negative things my dad said, but also the positive. But there is this part of me that yearned for more. I felt needy with my dad. Do you think I have what it takes? Do you think I’m beautiful? I’m not sure my dad, it’s funny. I feel like there was one time I remember him picking me up at the airport and I was in London, and I remember him saying, “Wow, you look beautiful.” And he didn’t say it very often. I wanted to fall on the floor and cry.

Kristen (00:43:25):

Oh my word,

Ann (00:43:26):

Because it’s my dad. And those words are so important.

Dave (00:43:30):

Yeah. I mean, your dad was not a Christ follower most of his life, and he looked at women the way—

Ann (00:43:38):

Objectively.

Dave (00:43:39):

Oh yeah. And he would talk about it that way.

Ann (00:43:41):

Oh yeah.

Dave (00:43:43):

You grew up under that.

Ann (00:43:45):

I was nine years old. He was a coach, and a baseball team was in our living room, the entire high school baseball team. And I was nine, and I had to walk through the middle of the room to get out because I had something to go to. And I was, you’re nine, you’re kind of embarrassed. And they’re all high school. And I think, “Oh gosh, these guys are so cute.” And so I’m totally embarrassed, and I walk through trying to not draw any attention to myself. And my dad says, “This is my daughter Ann. When she fills out that sweater, she’ll really be something.”

Kristen (00:44:21):

Oh my

Ann (00:44:23):

Right.

Kristen:

No kidding.

Ann:

No kidding.

Dave:

There you go.

Ann:

You don’t think that stuck with me.

Kristen:

Like the heat in your body in that moment.

Ann:

Yes, yes. You’re feeling it, Kristen.

Kristen:

Oh, I’m feeling it.

Ann:

I wanted to fall under the carpet and just stay there. But also, what is that message from my dad?

Dave (00:44:41):

And he had no idea—

Ann (00:44:42):

When you become a Barbie—

Dave (00:44:44):

—how he was affecting her.

Ann (00:44:45):

Maybe that’s why I wanted to be Barbie.

Kristen (00:44:49):

Yeah. What our parents speak really matters.

Ann (00:44:53):

So I think this is just a great assignment to parents, what we speak, what we’re speaking to ourselves as women especially. I would ask you as a woman listener, what are you saying about your own physical body and appearance to yourself? Because it’s so easy to slip out, even if we don’t say it, our daughters can feel maybe what we’re feeling or thinking about them and ourselves.

Kristen (00:45:21):

That’s right. I’m part of a mom’s life group—

Ann (00:45:23):

Yeah.

Kristen (00:45:24):

—it’s moms of kids, and these are my dear sisters in Christ. There’s 25 of us, and then we break into small group tables. It’s just been an absolute delight.

Ann:

That’s fun.

Kristen:

So we listen, we discuss the sermon and get into God’s word together. And one of the questions we often ask ourselves: is what I’m telling myself, something that I would tell my sister? Because usually it’s different. Something that I might say to my sister when she’s feeling mom guilt or struggling with her appearance, it’s not what I would tell myself. And why is that? So I think it’s a good filter too. We need the body of Christ. We need one another to live in light of the word. It’s so hard in this world. And so to have this beacon of light.

Ann (00:46:07):

Is there a devotion that you like the most in this book of 20 devotions?

Kristen (00:46:12):

Honestly, I think because I’m aging, and my husband and I joke that we wake up, and we injured ourselves. Like you injure yourself sleeping now. Do you guys ever do that?

Ann (00:46:23):

You’re saying this in your thirties.

Kristen (00:46:24):

Oh yeah. I’ll wake up and I’ll be like, “I can’t move my knee. What’s going on?”

Dave (00:46:27):

You are looking across the table at somebody a little older than 30.

Ann (00:46:31):

Yes, we do know what you’re talking about.

Kristen:

But we’re seeing friends come down with awful things. There’s so much cancer in this world right now.

Ann (00:46:41):

Yeah.

Kristen (00:46:43):

And so we’re aging. And so I think a couple of these chapters on that beauty that lasts forever.

(00:46:51):

I really have been thinking a lot lately about the brevity of life. There have been a lot of family members with cancer, people passing, and it’s really given me pause to say, “Am I ready for that? Am I ready for the day when I will see Jesus?” 2 Corinthians 4 and 5 have meant a lot to me over the years. I co-wrote a book called Hope When It Hurts with Sarah Walton, who I believe you guys have spoken with. And that whole book is in those two chapters. There’s so much good there about hope and where we’re setting our hope when life is hard. But 2 Corinthians 4:16 says “Though our outer self is wasting away,”—and we all feel that—“our inner self is being renewed day by day.” And then Paul goes on to talk about this eternal weight of glory that all of these afflictions are producing now. I don’t think we can even fathom what that will be, but boy will these things seem light and momentary, not that they are light and momentary in terms of how we feel them to be now. They’re heavy, but compared to the weight of glory, they will be so fading.

(00:48:05):

And so I think those chapters have meant a lot to me.

Ann (00:48:10):

It’s interesting though, that scripture was the scripture that when my sister was diagnosed, that’s the scripture that came to my mind about her. And I watched it happen Physically, she was fading away, but spiritually, it was one of the most beautiful, like her surrender and hope in Christ and her love for the Word. She’d be like, “Just read it to me again. Just read me the Word again.” To me it’s like those are the things like as we’re fading physically, spiritually, we’re just coming more alive, and we’ll live forever. We’re immortal and we spend so much time on the outer beauty.

Kristen:

That’s right.

Dave (00:48:54):

Yeah. And I would just say to our listener and viewer, you can pick up What Makes You Beautiful at FamilyLifeToday.com. Just go to the show notes, click on the link. But we’re going to talk about prayer as well. You’ve got another book Teach Me to Pray.

Kristen (00:49:09):

Yes. Yes.

Dave (00:49:10):

I know this isn’t related just to the beauty thing, but does prayer affect this area as well? And let’s walk through what Teach Me to Pray is all about.

Kristen (00:49:18):

Does it affect this area? The answer is yes.

Ann (00:49:24):

This is a really pretty book too. Walk us through this.

Kristen (00:49:29):

Yes. So Teach Me to Pray—

Dave (00:49:31):

From A to Z.

Kristen (00:49:32):

—is Praying God’s Word from A to Z. It’s sort of an encyclopedia of prayers for kids.

Ann (00:49:35):

It’s so cute. They’re really pretty, but it’s A to Z. And do you have two on each letter?

Kristen (00:49:42):

Two entries per letter.

Ann (00:49:44):

Yeah.

Kristen (00:49:45):

Yeah. X, we had to stretch a little bit.

Ann (00:49:48):

I know. So I feel like I have to, let’s have Kristen read one since you wrote it, but they’re short. Have you been reading these to your kids?

Kristen (00:50:00):

Not yet.

Ann:

You haven’t?

Kristen:

No. I’m excited. I wanted to get the book in hand. My daughter can read, and my son is almost there. And so I think it’ll be fun to have the book. But she was helping me with some of my edits along the way.

(00:50:13):

She’s a super helper. Okay, so this is the very first one. Teach me to pray about anger.

O God, I’m so angry! I feel so upset!

You’re slow to be angry. Don’t let me forget!

You’re patient with me, and you’re gentle and kind.

Your mercy surrounds me before and behind.

In light of your tenderness, help me to see

How slowness to anger can also mark me.

Lord, help me to listen, and then help me speak.

To use self-control doesn’t mean that I’m weak.

I thank you that Christ bore your wrath in my place.

My anger’s forgiven, for I’ve received grace.

In Jesus’s name I pray, amen.

Ann (00:50:59):

And then talk about what else is in that, after anger.

Kristen (00:51:04):

So each encyclopedic entry has this prayer: teach me to pray about, fill in the blank. And then you have Read About It, so there’s a verse; Think About It, just a little paragraph, short teaching on what we’re talking about; Learn About It, with some more scriptures if you wanted to read them by yourself or with your parents; and then Do Something About It, a response, a practical action set.

Ann:

Yeah. What’s your response from that one?

Kristen:

It says, “Have you been sinfully angry towards someone lately?”

Dave (00:51:31):

Yes.

Kristen (00:51:32):

Yes. “Confess your anger to God, ask for his forgiveness and help, and then apologize to the person you hurt.”

Ann (00:51:40):

That’s really good. So as you wrote this, tell me how you pictured it playing out with a parent.

Kristen (00:51:46):

Yeah. Well, I wrote this because we had our very own situation with our eldest daughter. She was going to bed, and she was afraid. Think it was of the dark or something like that. So Brad said okay and he prayed with her, and then he said, “I’m just going to write you a little prayer.” She could read at that point. And so he wrote on a Post-it note. I think something as simple as, “Dear Jesus, I’m scared. Please help me know you are near. Help me to trust you. Amen.” And he stuck it on her nightstand. And as I was thinking about it, I’m like, “That is so helpful.” Sometimes I don’t know what to pray half the time, let’s be honest. And so kids don’t know what to say. They’re learning. And so to give them something written down that you can read, that’s where the idea came from. Just something simple that they can read. And so I’m envisioning if a child can read on their own, this is something to give them words.

Ann (00:52:45):

I like it.

Kristen (00:52:46):

Or a parent could use this before bed according to each topic or situation. You could use it around the dinner table as a way to get your family in the Word.

Ann (00:52:57):

And to conversation about anger. You’re teaching them how to confess. You’re talking about scripture that relates to that.

Dave (00:53:05):

I mean, you pick a topic, you flip to that topic and boom.

Kristen:

It’s there.

Ann (00:53:08):

Or you can just read it through. What’s the other A in there? So you have anger.

Kristen (00:53:13):

Yeah. What is the other A? That’s a great question.

Ann (00:53:15):

I read them.

Kristen:

Attitude.

Ann:

Oh gosh.

Kristen (00:53:18):

That’s a big one, attitude. Yeah.

Ann (00:53:22):

Can you read the attitude one? Because this is one that parents are like, I don’t even know what to do right now because the attitude is so bad.

Kristen (00:53:29):

Sure.

Dear God, I need a brand-new start!

Create in me a humble heart.

My heart’s a prideful, selfish place.

Would you please fill me with your grace?

I want a mind like Jesus, please,

Who, serving all the least of these,

Became like me so I can be

Filled up with true humility.

Renew my attitude today

So I can bless those in my way.

In Jesus’s name I pray, amen.

Ann:

That’s so good.

Dave (00:53:56):

I mean, exciting news is this just came out. October, when this airs, this is just coming out: Teach Me to Pray. You can get it again, FamilyLifeToday.com and click the link in our show notes. This is—what a recent—get them both. Just get them both.

Ann (00:54:13):

Totally.

Dave (00:54:14):

While you’re there, why not?

Ann (00:54:15):

Well, I’m thinking through too when our kids were little. There’re certain things that they’re afraid of: tornadoes, a robber getting in, just fear of being in their bedroom at night. And I would do the same thing. I would teach them how to pray. I would have verses that they would memorize. And I feel like there’s so much great scripture in song now. It’s easy for them to learn a song that’s pure scripture. That was really helpful. And they’re so desperate. When we’re desperate, we’ll do anything.

(00:54:50):

And getting God’s Word in our hearts and our lives. For me, that’s really big. For our kids, that was huge. I would give them scripture when they’d go to school. Even in high school, I would write down scripture. And for—there was a time that I would put it on these little rocks, like little, tiny rocks, and I would write a scripture on it of something they were facing that would help them. And then they’d put it in their pocket, and they’d feel it all during the day and remember the scripture.

So I think to do this, but to have those conversations. I love the idea of kids reading it on their own. And I also love the idea of talking, like the dinner table thing or bedtime thing. That’s a cool idea. Or even if you’re in your car, you have the oldest read one as you’re going somewhere and then talk about it. I think that’s a great idea too. And I love all the scripture and they’re simple and they’re easy and they’re top—what do you think Z is? Did you see what the Z is? How long did it take you to come up with a Z?

Dave:

Z?

Kristen (00:55:54):

Yeah.

Ann (00:55:56):

There’s two Zs. I like the one, zeal.

Dave (00:56:04):

What’s the other Z?

Ann:

Zion.

Dave:

What are the Xs?

Ann (00:56:06):

I haven’t looked at the Xs.

Kristen (00:56:07):

Can I even remember? Excellence is one of them.

Ann:

Excellence.

Kristen:

What’s the second one?

Ann (00:56:13):

And—

Dave:

You remember?

Ann:

Existence.

Kristen:

Thank you. Existence. Yeah, like your purpose.

Dave (00:56:19):

Oh, there you go.

Ann (00:56:19):

It doesn’t start with an X, but do any words start with an X?

Kristen (00:56:21):

I mean, very few words, very few words. I think it was the pastor Tim Keller, who said something like, the most significant things are usually the hardest. And so prayer must be one of the most significant things we can do. Isn’t that moving?

Ann:

I’ve never heard that quote.

Dave (00:56:40):

Another great Tim Keller quote. That is so true.

Ann:

It’s encouraging actually.

Kristen (00:56:44):

Because prayer was really hard. And so the title of this book, Teach Me to Pray, came from Luke 11:1. Jesus was praying in a certain place and when he finished, one of his disciples said to him, “Lord, teach us to pray.” And that’s how I feel every day. But I also think that’s a beautiful picture for parents. If we’re praying around our kids, with our kids, for our kids so that they can hear us, what a cool opportunity. They might just say, “Teach me to pray. Mom, teach me to pray. Dad, teach me to pray.”

Ann (00:57:13):

As a parent, we’re always discipling, always. They’re watching us. We’re discipling them in the car: how to drive, how to talk to people.

Dave (00:57:24):

She’s looking at—

Ann (00:57:25):

Is there a story?

Dave (00:57:26):

—her driver here.

Ann (00:57:27):

You didn’t do that when they were little. You’ve gotten worse now.

Dave (00:57:30):

I’ve gotten worse.

Kristen (00:57:32):

Talking at other drivers, you mean?

Ann (00:57:33):

Yeah.

Dave (00:57:34):

Yes, and nobody drives as perfectly as me, of course. Or her, by the way.

Kristen (00:57:40):

The other day my daughter told me to be patient. I was like, “Go, it’s green. Go.” And she goes, Mom, be patient.”

Dave (00:57:51):

I have said that a thousand times.

Ann (00:57:52):

But we’ve talked so many times on this show of those times that are critical times of discipleship. In the car is one of those times where I can remember having babies and putting them in their car seats and praying out loud as soon as I was in the car seat. “Lord, we give you this day. Thank you.” And so my kids—and I didn’t do this perfectly, and sometimes I was like, “Jesus, I am mad today,” “Lord, what is up with the no sun every single day.” But there’s also praise and there’s also repetition, and there’s also just praying my heart and soul, but kind of like the Psalms, so my kids could hear me praying out loud and I didn’t say, guys, you need to listen to me. It’s just praying. And I think for prayer to become something that’s so common and it’s so ordinary because it takes place so often in a family, that’s good discipleship. And you’ve just created another way to make that happen.

Kristen (00:58:52):

Oh, thank you. Yeah. I think prayer is like breathing, right?

Ann (00:58:56):

Yes.

Kristen (00:58:57):

We need oxygen to live, and we need the Lord to live and we just, our whole day is spent in communion with Him.

Ann (00:59:05):

How many times have you had to go to repent and apologize to your kids?

Kristen (00:59:08):

I was going to say, “That’s a great opportunity to pray—to model prayer.” I hope it’s all the time. You should ask my kids. I really hope that they would say Mom does that as a normal thing. It’s not just everyone. I want them to know that mom said she’s sorry. The words, “I’m sorry,” and “Will you please forgive me?” are huge in our house.

Ann (00:59:31):

That’s a good example.

Kristen (00:59:33):

Yeah. So hopefully daily there’s repentance going on. If it’s not right before them, it’s hopefully before the Lord. But I think that’s a great opportunity to show our kids that where sin increases grace abounds all the more.

Ann:

And the need for the gospel and grace.

Kristen:

Right.

Dave (00:59:50):

Kristen, thanks. This has been really helpful for parents.

Ann (00:59:52):

Yeah.

Kristen (00:59:53):

Thank you, guys, so much. Such a privilege.

Ann (00:59:54):

Thanks for the tools.

Kristen:

You’re welcome.

Ann:

You’re creating some great things for us to help our kids, to disciple our kids.

Kristen:

It truly is a privilege. Thank you.

Ann:

Hey, thanks for watching and if you liked this episode—

Dave (01:00:07):

You better like it.

Ann (01:00:07):

—just hit that like button.

Dave (01:00:09):

And we’d like you to subscribe. So all you got to do is go down and hit the subscribe—I can’t say the word subscribe. Hit the subscribe button. I don’t think I can say this word.

Ann:

Like and subscribe.

Dave:

Look at that. You say it so easy. Subscribe. There it goes.

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