176: How to Help Kids Cope with Divorce and Remarriage

Episode Transcript

FamilyLife Blended®

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Season 7, Episode 176: How to Help Kids Cope with Divorce and Remarriage

Guest:             Summer Butler

Air Date:        November 3, 2025

Summer (00:02):

The things that bring us pain, or trigger us, are often mirrors and reflections of things we need to work on ourselves. So if we can take a humility stance as parents and say, “Okay, I can’t figure out what’s going on, but I know something’s going on inside of me. Let me use this as a catalyst of change.”

Ron (00:26):

Welcome to the FamilyLife Blended podcast. I’m Ron Deal. We help blended families, and the kids in them, pursue the relationships that matter most. Yeah, we want the next generation to experience love and emotional safety in their home, so they are more likely to trust God with their lives and so they carry blessings into adulthood. More on that in just a few moments.

Two quick announcements before we jump into our conversation. There are more and more virtual groups being offered online regarding blended family living. You don’t have to do this alone anymore. There may not be something near you or in your church, but you don’t have to do it alone anymore. Study my Smart Stepfamily video curriculum or other resources from the convenience of your home. Search for groups with our online map, and of course you can find in-person groups and my speaking events there as well.

(01:28):

The show notes will get you connected to all of that. So take a quick look.

We just wrapped our annual two-day equipping event for leaders. It’s called the Summit on Stepfamily Ministry. If you missed that training event this year—it was in Nashville—you can get the All-Access Digital Pass and get the training on your own time. How does that sound? By the way, that Digital Pass includes contents from previous Summits, so check it out in the show notes.

A frequent question that we get here at FamilyLife Blended is what are the resources available for children? Well, we’re going to talk about one of those today. Summer Butler is a stepmom. She’s an author, a speaker and coach who specializes in working with blended families. She’s taken my Smart Stepfamily therapy training. She’s the author of Blended: Aligning the Hierarchy of Heart and Home, which we talked about by the way, on episode number 81. It’s called Bonus Moms. If you haven’t listened to that, look it up. And she’s now released a book for tweens, kids in complex family situations. The book is called Blended: Navigating Life Between Two Homes.

Summer, it is great to have you back on FamilyLife Blended. Thanks for being here.

Summer (02:44):

Thank you so much for having me.

Ron (02:46):

Before we start talking about other kids, let’s talk about you as a kid.

Summer (02:49):

Let’s do it.

Ron (02:50):

When you were 13, your parents got divorced.

Summer (02:54):

They did.

Ron (02:54):

Where did that leave you?

Summer (02:57):

I feel like as the oldest of four, as my dad left the home for the last time, he gave me a message and said, “I want you to take care of your mom and take care of everybody else.” And I took that to heart. I did that I feel like the best that I could at 13. And I also resented that. It wasn’t my job. And at 13 years old, I became the second adult in the home. I became a sounding board for my parents to, I think, offload some of their emotional trauma themselves.

(03:39):

I carried the weight of their emotional baggage for a lot of years in my life, and I had so much built up. I think trauma is the right word. And as I stepped into a stepfamily later on in my life—not thinking I ever would, I never wanted to, right, but that’s how the cards fell—I started to recognize some really detrimental coping mechanisms showing up inside my marriage. And so I really started to take a look back at what was happening in my childhood that was showing up in the present day in the form of pain. I had to unpack some of that. It took me a lot of years to get into trauma therapy, but I did and started to unpack a lot of what happened because of the divorce.

Ron (04:26):

Wow. Okay. Boy, did we jump into the deep end, and I appreciate that so much because somebody listening right now is reflecting on all those different layers. Like you talked about when your dad said that to you, you felt this and this. And then as an adult you’re looking back and you’re processing and you’re realizing, oh, not only did I feel that, but I carried this coping mechanism into my marriage family and who I am today. And it ties back to there’s a lot of layers there.

Summer (04:52):

So much.

Ron (04:53):

And isn’t this life for all of us, right? There’s layers upon layer upon layers. And just a few days ago I had an insight, and I shared it with my wife, and she looked at me like, “I’m so glad you finally figured out after 39 years, something that I’ve seen all along.” But here I am at 59 going, I’m just figuring something else about me. I think this is life for all of us, right?

Summer (05:17):

Yeah. And the thing is, I don’t look back and blame my parents. I think that they did the best they could with the resources they had. They were young when they married. They didn’t have the right tools to carry out a healthy marriage. And in saying this, I am well aware that this is the type of child I’m also speaking to inside the workbook because it doesn’t matter for me who was right or wrong. What matters is they’re my parents and I didn’t need to or want to hear about the other parent in the other home and the right and wrong that they did because they’re my parent and I view them through the lens of a child in a loyalty bind. So in writing the workbook, I found myself not just working with children but almost addressing my inner child and speaking to that little girl self that continued to show up.

Ron (06:08):

Yes. And I just want to mention, you’re going to be talking to other parents and their reflections on their childhood even as they’re mindful of their own child in this present life. Again, all the layers come together. I got to ask you one question. I know we’re going to unpack here in a little bit. We’ll get into some of the things in your book about emotions and children. But you said, when my dad said that to me, I can’t remember the first word, but you felt some, like you carried it. There was some affirmation in there. There was a, oh, dad’s entrusting this to me. There was something there that was positive, is that the right word? But then you also felt resentment. Talk about those two things and how that worked for you.

Summer (06:49):

I think the best thing that I’ve learned, I mean even recently, Ron. We recently moved—I would say a big move. It’s two hours away—and I’ve wrestled with this change. I’m like, okay, I’ve never—first of all, change triggers trauma for me. I don’t love that, but I’m aware of it. But one of the greatest things I’ve kind of reminded myself over the past two weeks is two things can be true at the same time. So this can be hard, but I know that it’s good. I can be struggling but still have peace. So back when I think back to that moment of when my dad left, it is not my job to be responsible for my mom. It’s not my job to be responsible for my siblings because of a mistake he made, right? Because of mistakes they both made in their marriage.

(07:33):

But I took it upon myself to maintain that home, the relationship to be the other parent in the home, and I guess in a sense, respecting his request. But later on resenting that I was even at 13 years old, expected to be an adult. I really did. I think in that moment, I grew up that day. I lost my childhood. I became an adult in a 13-year-old body. I did not understand how to process my emotions. My parents took me to counseling. And this was a catalyst of change for me, not because it was great, but because it wasn’t. And I sat across from somebody that had no idea what to do with a reluctant preteen, somebody that was independent and stubborn and strong, that knew how to get my needs met on my own. I didn’t need somebody to tell me to do that.

(08:21):

Now, how I was getting them met maybe wasn’t a healthy way, but she just sat there and stared at me. She just stared at me. She had no idea what to do with my silence. And I know sometimes those are tough kids to work with, but I relate to that in the sense that I didn’t necessarily need her to talk me out of the reality of what I was experiencing. I just needed her to let me experience the reality of what was. And I feel like a lot of times parents want children to see things from their perspective, but the truth is they view it out of the lens of a child. They don’t have the capacity to process what happened between the two parents.

(08:54):

And then when you’re placing the child in an adult role like my dad did for me, it comes with a sense of responsibility. I need to do that. But then later on down the road, I look back and because I didn’t want to do that, there’s also this rub and this resentment that came with it. So I think both were true. I did step up, and I didn’t want to. And then there’s that conflict. And in a sense, I think for me, turned into this false identity that I walked out really until my adulthood.

Ron (09:28):

Absolutely. And because you’re loyal to your dad, you’re going to walk that out, carry it with you, and not turn away from that because he was relying on you. Of course you would. You love your dad. You’re loyal to him. You want to do what you’ve been asked to do. A minute ago, to your point when you said, “I grew up that day at 13,” well, you grew up in the sense that you got parentified, but you didn’t grow up in the sense that you were more mature and that you understood how to even manage the very things that you’re talking about. The emotions, you didn’t know how to handle that. And that is such an important thing to say to anybody listening right now, parent or stepparent, grandparent, et cetera, ministry leader: if you’re working with kids, sometimes they act in ways that go, wow, you seem very grown up. Well, that’s that responsible part of them that’s responding to the call that’s been put on their life like you had from your dad. That does not mean that they have the internal skills or ability or know-how to understand their own experience.

Summer (10:28):

Right.

Ron (10:29):

Those are two very different things. And to your credit, that’s what this resource is about. As we talk about this resource, don’t see it as something that only pertains to your child. This is for you and your child as you engage one another, as you listen, as you respond, as you ask questions. “Oh, great. Tell me about what you said here and why you responded.” It’s that dialogue that helps open you up to that child’s inner experience in ways that they don’t even understand and that’s why they need you to come alongside them. And that’s my little sermon.

Summer (11:01):

I wrote this kind of with that in mind too, with the parent or stepparent or counselor or group leader or ministry leader in mind. Yes, it’s for the child. And yes, it’s to tap into some of the things that they’re wondering about. How do I navigate communication? What are these new family roles? What should new boundaries look like? How can I say what I feel and what I need at the same time in a respectful way?

(11:29):

But on the backend, when you’re a parent stepparent or anybody that’s trying to connect with this child, just allowing them space and reading it maybe from your perspective too and say like, “Oh gosh, I didn’t really think about us moving in together means that this kid now, maybe he or she used to walk into the bathroom when mom and dad were getting ready, but that’s not appropriate anymore.” I mean, that’s just like a surface level example that maybe we as adults don’t think about when kiddos are also having to deal with the changes in complexity of blending.

Ron (12:03):

So well said. Let me just add a little commentary. Nothing is surface level. I mean more and more, I’m seeing how that little example that you gave there can appear to be an incidental sort of a thing—walking into the restroom. Now the door’s closed. There’s other people to consider. Yeah, but what’s behind that is: is this my family? Is this not my family? Do I belong here? Do I not belong here? In what way do you belong in my life now that you occupy this space and I can’t enter into those spaces like I used to be able to. The rules have changed because new people are here so what does that mean for me? Where does that put me? Everything has meaning that goes well beyond what we see. And sometimes we just as parents just got to slow down enough to see it from their point of view.

So let me just remind our listener, viewers, this workbook is called Blended: Navigating Life Between Two Homes, but there’s lots of layers within that. It’s not just about the between home stuff. It’s about the child’s inner world and experiences we’ve already begun to discuss. Say a little something about the format, the age of kids that it’s appropriate for and the fact that it’s a            workbook. It has some prompts and some activities that get kids drawing or writing or engaging with their family story. Talk around why you set it up that way.

Summer (13:39):

So after a couple seasons of leading Divorce Care for Kids, which I highly recommend for children that have been affected by divorce—after leading that a couple times, I tend to always look at the deficit. And I say that to say there were so few kids utilizing the resource in my group that I just started to question why. And the truth is, kids can’t control whether they come to church or not. That’s not in their control. And so maybe you have one believing family and the other one’s not right. And maybe you’ve got neither family is a believing family. Divorce Care for Kids is a Christian based curriculum, and the research out there shows that it’s astronomical the amount of kids that are not churched in our society. And so I started to think, “Okay, so they’re not getting introduced to Divorce Care for Kids and after Divorce Care for Kids, what is available? Is there anything for kiddos?” Because a lot of times we are seeing okay that the divorce care part has been kind of skipped over. We’ve just gotten into a new relationship pretty quick. The kids are just drug along with it. So is there any resource out there for kiddos that have kind of surpassed the divorce. Now we’re blending or living together or just kind of merging families and not really knowing the effect on others.

(15:00):

I kind of pulled from that plus a lot of the topics that kids in Divorce Care were bringing to group and kids in my coaching practice were bringing. And I thought like, “Okay, if I can put together a workbook, there’s 12 chapters. These are kind of the hot topics that I feel like kiddos either do not get addressed or have pop up later as symptoms to a greater problem that I’m seeing in coaching.” Because a lot of times I’ll get the referrals after the behaviors are out of control. Well, what I know is every behavior meets a need, so I want to dig into what need it is that they’re trying to meet through their behavior. And what I’m thankful to be able to do through the kiddo’s perspective is look at the family dynamics as a whole. And so these are things, the topics, understanding blended families, just basically introducing what is a blended family?

(15:48):

They’re going to hear this. What does that mean to them? What are some of the feelings and emotions that you’ve had pop up because you’re in a blended family because of divorce? And we just break down topics, 12 different chapters, and there’s worksheets in between each chapter that the kiddos can work through and share. At the end of each chapter, there’s a journaling prompt. It’s either a drawing—I try to make it fun, ages eight to 12, but I’ve done it with kiddos as young as six. And to be honest, it was also created out of a resource from my own coaching. I was doing a lot of this already. So I thought, okay, the difference between coaching and counseling, and I can hush and let you jump in if I’m going too far, but the coaching, and I don’t necessarily need double consent for coaching. And what I’ve recognized is that there’s a lot of families where one home’s not willing to consent and the other home is. Well, what happens if there is a double consent? What if it needs a double consent and the parents can’t bring the kiddos to coaching? Well, there’s no rule on buying a book and working through a workbook with therapeutic type exercises with your kiddo inside the home that the other home doesn’t—if they don’t agree, that’s okay.

Ron (17:01):

Let me just explain to our listener/viewer double consent. She’s talking about when a child’s living between two homes, getting consent of both biological parents. Sometimes it’s easy to get one biological parent who has the ability by law in their state, depending on what the requirements are, they can give permission to a counselor working with their child. Sometimes it takes double consent and if the other parent is not motivated or doesn’t feel like it’s the right thing to do, now the child is not getting any treatment. So in other words, you found a way to make something available to people that’s easy, they can do on their own. How do you imagine parents engaging with kids as they go through the workbook?

Summer (17:42):

It is written so that kids can do it on their own. It’s simple. It’s self-explanatory. If they are wanting to keep some of this private, I think that I wanted to, in the pages of this workbook, let them feel seen and known and heard and have a place to kind of write down their own thoughts. If a parent, stepparent, therapist, school counselor, if they’re wanting to connect with the kiddo, it could be you just take one or two exercises or that final journaling prompt. I also have written a parent guide that you can purchase a PDF parent guide that goes chapter by chapter with questions like “Here’s what your kiddo is going to be reading about in chapter one, Understanding Blended Families. Here’s some prompting questions that you can ask that won’t solicit yes or no answers, but will really kind of dig into, how are you feeling about your blended family?

(18:30):

What would a new relationship look like with your stepmom or stepdad or whatever?” Anyways, it’s broken down by chapter and topic, and it really gives parents an easy go-to to ask some of these questions about what they’re experiencing in the workbook. And there’s a counselor guide as well. So if you want to lead groups or if you’re just working one on one—and you know more and better than anybody that not every therapist is stepfamily aware, and stepfamily trained. And sometimes I think a lot of the struggle becomes the stepfamily dynamic. And when a therapist isn’t trained, that’s okay, but this is a resource that they can use to help dig into that with the kiddos.

Ron (19:09):

Summer, I’ve always said that anytime parents, stepparents, can give kids in blended families a voice, they need to try to do that in part because kids don’t get a voice around the really big decisions that happened to their life. A parent dying, they didn’t have a voice in that. Mom, Dad divorcing, they did not have a voice in that. The transition one after another, new stepparents coming into the world, they do not have a voice in that more often than not. So they need to be able to influence their world whenever they can and to be heard and for somebody to sort of see them in a way. To me, it seems this book helps give kids that voice.

Summer (19:49):

It does. And it gives them not just the voice but the language to use with that voice. And I say that because a lot of the topics that were getting brought to Divorce Care and getting brought to my coaching were things like—I have one little boy in particular was telling me how much money his dad owed his mom from the divorce and that he was lazy and just hadn’t worked throughout their whole marriage. And just really like you used the word early parentification, just a lot of that. And so helping him understand that it is not his responsibility to take care of his mother emotionally and giving him language. So a lot of times we want to have healthy stepfamily dynamics and not put children in the middle. That happens, but from a child’s perspective. So if we can’t coach the parents not to do that, how can I coach the kid to take himself out of the middle? How can I do that? Well, that language sounds like, “Hey, gosh, that sounds like something I would like for you to take to dad instead of me,” and walk away.

Ron (20:50):

Pause for a second because this is so important. And if you’re listening and watching and you’re thinking, “Wait, I don’t get it. Why is it such a big deal to help a kid with this little triangulation he has?” Okay, first of all, let’s just back up and say Mom didn’t sit down one day and say, “You know what? I’m going to burden my child with a whole lot of information that is not his to carry, but I’m going to lay it on him and then have him walk around telling other people what a bad person his dad is.” That’s not what mom did.

I will say there are those people in the world and maybe two out of a hundred really do have that intentionality in what they do. I’m not talking about those people. I’m talking about the other 98 percent that just start going through life. Maybe they’re talking out loud, maybe they’re talking to a friend on the phone, and they just don’t even realize their child is—whatever that is. This stuff is coming out enough that the child is receiving it and hearing it, and you are placing a massive burden on your child. That is not kid business.

Summer (21:56):

Agree.

Ron (21:57):

That is adult business, and it needs to stay parent/adult business. But when it happens, how do we help a child maybe relieve them of some of that burden of responsibility? And I want to go back to what you just said, workbook, giving them words and empowering a child to be able to say, “Huh, I’m not so sure that’s mine.” First of all, let me just say five-year-olds, they’re not going to be able to do that. I mean, we’re talking about little older kids, but the fact that you give it to a child empowers them to realize that they can actually say, in a kind and respectful way, “I don’t want to do that. I don’t want to be your pawn or soldier in this big war. I had really rather not play that role.” To empower a child to have that level of voice is really, really liberating.

Summer (22:48):

I agree. And I think healing for them. And this isn’t just a skill that they need inside their family. This is a skill they need for life. And so you look at the world that they’re living in today, they’re going to be put in situations where they need to say, “Hey, that’s not okay with me. I’m going to choose to step away.” And you can do that short, sweet, and respectful. And unfortunately, I think stepfamilies offer a lot of opportunity for kiddos to use these skills inside the home and nuclear families too but the complexities of the stepfamilies. So giving them not just the voice but the language and letting them understand: okay, what are boundaries? What are verbal boundaries? What are emotional boundaries? What are physical boundaries? What are these things now that I’m having to navigate, for me at 13 years old and I didn’t have the skillset I need, and so I moved into survival.

(23:41):

That’s what we do. So what I’m doing is trying to work backwards from and prevent them from moving into survival, giving them the skills they need to have basic life skills and emotionally regulate in moments that are chaotic in crisis. And to be honest, and this is, I totally agree that it’s not always the parent’s intent, but they’re so wrapped up in their own just stress of life that the children tend to fall at the wayside and the realization that they also are walking out a perception, they’re also walking out the reality of what’s happening on a different level. They kind of just get lost in the transition.

And this book, even just handing it to them, I think says, “Hey, you’re seen. I get it. This is hard. There’s some things you’re going to have to navigate that I hate you’re having to do this so soon, but here’s what I know. You’re going to feel loyal to mom and dad. Does that mean you can’t like anybody else? No, but that’s a normal feeling. It’s normal to feel loyal. It’s normal to feel, even if we look at families that have broken up for parents are in jail or the loyalty bond is still going to be there, and that’s okay.”

(24:59):

You can feel love and like for people at the same time—people that we’re bringing inside the home—but just letting them take their time. And to your point, writing it on the backend for the parent as well, having them read that and say, “Oh gosh, maybe I need to slow down a minute and understand this little kiddo is having their own experience much like I am, but maybe just in a different reality.”

Ron (25:36):

Let’s shift a little bit and talk a little bit about the role of faith in this journey. What role can faith have for kids and how do you see parents sharing in that? I know that that’s an element in the workbook.

Summer (25:50):

Yeah, it is really the undertow of all the work that I do. For this workbook, in particular, it’s not necessarily pushed into the Christian audience but into the world as a whole, with Christian truths embedded into it. And I say that when we’re looking at the Feelings and Communications chapters. I’m really pulling a lot from your restoration coaching model there for the kiddos. And so we want to teach them first of all how they feel, how they’re coping with those feelings, what does that look like, and where are you leaning to cope? And then what are the outcomes of that and what truth are you believing about yourself that may or may not be true.

So we really want to pluck out some of the mistruths or false identities that they’re holding onto so that we can plug in God’s truth: you are seen, you are loved, you are known, you have a voice, you matter. And some of those God truths are planted into that chapter for them to pull out the roots of the weeds that have maybe been planted in their life and replant some of the good seeds that can grow good fruit. I think it starts there.

Ron (26:58):

Yeah. I have to say, I caught this section, and I was so pleased to see it.

Summer (27:03):

I knew you would be.

Ron (27:06):

For anybody who’s read The Mindful Marriage, the principles that you get there as an adult are planted within this resource as well. So that processing emotion, and like you said, reorienting around truth rather than pain, is not just good for parents, it’s really good for kids. Let’s just sort of, what are some of those big emotions that you imagine or know from your own life experience and the folks you’ve worked with? What are some of those big emotion pain points—let’s just call them that—for kids? We’ve already sort of hit on some of them, the feeling the pinch between two different households and the expectations of that, the burden for you of having to take care of other people because you were handed that mandate from your dad. What are some of the other pain points you think of?

Summer (27:55):

I think different from what our training when we went through this, right, we started with the feelings—what presents a lot in kiddos for coaching is the coping. And so I work backwards.

Ron (28:07):

That’s what you see first is the outside stuff.

Summer (28:10):

What you see first is the outside, and that’s for parents too. So when these kiddos are acting or reacting in the home, that’s when parents know it’s time to get help. Let me use a personal example just so I can tell on myself. So when my son, a few years ago, my biological son—so I have two stepsons, one biological son. Our youngest is 11, and he was having so much emotional dysregulation in the home. It was tipping me over the edge. I couldn’t understand it. I can work with everybody else’s kids but when it comes to your own, right, we start to tell ourselves internal narratives.

Ron (28:44):

Yeah, what was he doing externally?

Summer (28:46):

He was unable to go from disappointment—I know it was the root of it—to calm, and it would go from disappointment to anger to rage.

Ron (28:57):

Gotcha.

Summer (28:58):

And so there was just a—

Ron (29:00):

What you saw on the outside was anger.

Summer (29:01):

Anger.

Ron (29:02):

—rage and what did that look like? Yelling, screaming, throwing, kicking, or just being mad, just—

Summer (29:08):

—crying, throwing a fit. Things that for an 8-year-old boy would be considered normal were just abnormal. I couldn’t understand it, and we couldn’t get to the bottom of it. And to be honest, it sent me to my EMDR therapy because what I recognized was that this little boy was triggering the little girl inside of me that had never healed and processed.

(29:39):

So the things that bring us pain, or trigger us, are often mirrors and reflections of things we need to work on ourselves. So if we can take a humility stance as parents and say, “Okay, I can’t figure out what’s going on, but I know something’s going on inside of me. Let me use this as a catalyst of change.” So I went and got my own therapy. We got him his own neurofeedback therapy, which is a new and upcoming—it’s been around a while, but it’s pretty controversial. I think us both doing our own work allowed us to come back together as new, improved people recognizing our own behaviors, our own coping mechanisms. When he’s triggered, I’m triggered. Well, I know that now. Okay, well, being triggered for him looks like anger; being triggered for me, looks like I want to control, but that doesn’t work when a little kiddo isn’t—

Ron (30:29):

I was going to say, good luck trying to control a kid who’s raging, right?

Summer:

Can’t do it.

Ron:

That was of course a vicious cycle.

Summer (30:33):

So we just keep going in pain cycles. So a lot of times, just to back up, my family included, we showed up for help with the behaviors, not necessarily understanding the feelings behind it.

Ron (30:49):

It’s always the pain that drives—

Summer (30:51):

Always.

Ron (30:52):

—that negative coping.

Summer (30:53):

Yeah, always.

Ron (30:53):

Wow. So the neurofeedback stuff for him builds mindfulness and where he’s recognizing, “Oh, I’m getting agitated even though I wouldn’t have called it angry, but I’m”—and he begins to notice those little pieces in himself and can start asking different questions about what’s going on with me. And that was helpful as was you processing, what is this telling me about me and what do I do differently as a result?

Summer (31:19):

Yeah. So let me use that as some experience behind the workbook. Because this all kind of was going on behind the scenes and it’s starting to make me, when I start clearing away the clutter, then I can produce the good fruit that God has out of it. He’s going to make good of all things. And good out of that situation was just both of us getting some healing, but also me being able to understand through training as well. Okay, there’s these four ways that we cope: blame, shame, control, or escape. And so every child that comes to me, I really am looking at the behavior and identifying what, “Okay, well obviously you’re coping with escape,” or “You’re coping with blame.” And then we unpack that. So this is a shield.

(32:04):

How you’re coping is a shield. What are we shielding? Anger is a shield. What’s underneath that? So we start to use some little kid language and identify, oh, okay, so we’ve got an anger spot that’s growing and growing and growing. How do we calm down that anger spot? We start to put tools. Diane Alber writes a phenomenal book about little kid emotional regulation. It ties straight into this chapter and ties into a lot of the work that you do just on the little kid level. So it is the same work with a little bit different language, but if we can teach them to—what is the word I used earlier? Instead of survival mode, we give them the skills they need to identify how they’re feeling, how they’re coping, and what the truth is. The truth is you’re safe. That’s the truth. The truth is you are loved. You may not feel that right now between your two homes, but the truth is you are. You’re seen; you’re loved. And if I can be a catalyst, if the workbook can be the rope that I’m holding and I place the rope in their hand and the other side is God, then I’ve done my job, then I’ve done my job.

Ron (33:14):

And that connects them, and it grounds them, and it allows them—it opens up the agency piece where I get to make decisions about how I respond to this. And it doesn’t have to be anger or rage. It doesn’t have to be whatever that normal coping is.

(33:28):

Wow, it’s so good. And what I know is that, again, this too will have multiple layers to it because as a parent is helping their child, they’re helping themself. They’re going to recognize some of their own triggers, some of their own coping and begin to ask questions about how they can change that. At the end of the day, anytime you’re bringing more awareness to everybody about their own behavior and you’re encouraging self-control, everybody wins. Everybody wins. In particular, when I think a child feels their parents’ presence in the form of, I’m growing with you, alongside you, we’re doing this thing together, man, that is so awesome.

(34:11):

Okay, another question. I think it’s hard for adults to know what it’s like to be torn between two homes to be caught in the middle. I want to go back to that because I think that we just see them as kids and they just get it’s, we just sort of have our own little blinders on about what they’re experiencing, not fully embracing or realizing the change that it takes for them to navigate this home, that home, the thoughts there, the pressures there here, the expectations there and here, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. What do you want parents to know as it relates to kids?

Summer (34:52):

I touch on that, I think that it is the Co-parenting Dynamics chapter and teaching kids, what do you do when you have two completely separate sets of rules? What if you have a cell phone at mom’s house but not at dad’s? What if for our teens, what if you can drink at mom’s house but you can’t drink at dad’s?

(35:14):

What if you have a curfew at mom’s, but not a curfew at dad’s? Right? These kids are not just navigating two homes, but a lot of times two very, very different sets of roles. So what do you do with that? And the kids are, like you said, kind of caught in the middle. I think a lot of parents come to me and just feel powerless over that aspect of having two homes and what do we do with the kids? How do we implement what we find to be good family values when they’re not being encouraged over here?

(35:48):

And while I understand that the struggle with that, we can only control what we have in our capacity to control, which is our own home. But for the kids, again, this book helps empower them. So we first want to help them inform themselves. So make a list. What are the differences for the younger kids? Maybe bedtime’s different. What time is bedtime at mom’s? What time is bedtime at dad’s? What are the rules around social media? What are the rules around phones? What are the rules on tv? And they actually list that out. And then it talks about how can you maybe, or I’ve talked about this in coaching with kids, this is a big one. How can the kids start to choose what feels best for them? Not necessarily what feels best. Oh, well, I want to play video games all day at mom’s house or dad’s house or whatever. But if we look at balance and teach them balance, why do you think mom’s rules are these, well, why do you think dad’s rules are these? And deep down inside, let’s think about, what are the feelings you have after you’ve played video games all day long? What are the feelings where you have rules and regulations about it? And believe it or not, kids want set structure and discipline.

(36:57):

They crave it, they need it. So when they don’t have it in one home, but they’ve got it modeled in another home, the topic can be around how do we find balance? Okay, I understand you’ve got free reign for video games over here. What would maybe two hours look like instead of 12? Could you maybe drive that? You have the power to do that. You have the control over your own self in a situation where there is no rules. So it’s almost like you’ve taught before, Ron. We’re almost teaching kids how to go out into a world that has evil and the world around it. But how do we empower the kids on the back end to have a say? Well, we need to just teach them balance and boundaries in that how to say like, “Hey, you know what? I know that I’m allowed to do that. I’m really tired. I don’t feel like having—I don’t want to do that all night long. Can we do something else?” Whatever.

Ron (37:46):

Again, it gives them a voice in particular around a subject. I think kids feel like they can say what they want about most things. They’re already telling you what they want for Christmas, but sometimes they feel like they can’t speak to things like this, dad’s house, mom’s house, different rules, whatever. So again, it’s empowering. I just want parents to hear us say, we’re not saying, Summer and I are not saying that your kids get to tell you what time to send them to bed. Eight out of 10 things they have no say over whatsoever. You’re the parent. But every once in a while, when they speak up and you have the ability to modify life, structure life in a way that considers their need, please do that because it is empowering for them to be able to give voice to that. And especially if it’s around these emotional issues and they’re just trying to ask for some help, try to find a way to consider that when you get a chance.

Speaking of rules and dad’s house, mom’s house, things being different. I’m thinking about the holidays coming up. So we got all the traditions that are different and navigating space and how we do Christmas there or here. We’ve said before on this program that there are particular seasons on the calendar, special days, birthdays, holidays are right there among them when all this between home stuff sort of ripples back up to the surface again. You may have been able to kind of bury that thing for a while, but now that Christmas is coming, Thanksgiving’s coming, you got to talk again about who’s doing what, when, where, and how and where the kids are going to be. And so it’s probably going to ripple some of this stuff back up to the surface. Do you think this is an opportunity seasonally, like an opportunity to engage your kids again around how they experience all this stuff, what their feelings are?

Summer (39:46):

Yeah, and I think even if the, let’s say the decree is followed for whatever reason that a strict decree is followed and just ignoring the fact that there will be emotions around the holidays doesn’t make them go away.

Ron (40:06):

Just because you have a strict decree does not mean kids are not feeling certain things.

Summer (40:10):

A hundred percent, yeah.

Ron (40:11):

Well said.

Summer (40:12):

And so if we can put ourselves aside, I think a lot of times parents—and this is something to reflect on if you’re working through this workbook with a kiddo and I’m asking, okay, what are the rules at moms? What are at dad’s? And you find yourself maybe your mom and you find yourself “What?! Those are the rules at dad’s house,” and you’re starting to get triggered here—

(40:37):

I want people to recognize that. And it’s the same with the holidays. So if you’re starting to get triggered and feeling this angst, and I am not going to get to see my kids over the holidays, well, they’re not going to get to see you either. They’re having their own experience in that, and I don’t want you to unload and have your kiddos carry that emotional baggage for the holidays. But it could be just having an open conversation like, “Hey, here’s what I know and what I don’t know. What I know is this is going to be the schedule. What I don’t know is what that’ll look like next year, but this year, this is the schedule.

(41:12):

And here’s what we’re going to be doing on our time, and I am hopeful you enjoy your time over here. Here’s what we’ll do when you get back.” Or having some language and allowing them to just feel seen and heard. I think when those things are bubbling up for parents, they’re also bubbling up for the kiddos. And that doesn’t mean have a whole about it, about how you’re feeling with the kid, but just opening, maybe having some open-ended questions like, “Hey, how are you feeling about the holidays? Is there anything that I can do to make you feel comfortable with everything coming up?” Reminding them of those two basic human needs. This is what I tell parents all the time, the best thing you can do, especially in a divorce situation, is remind them they are loved, and they are safe. You are loved and you are safe. We want to build a foundation there.

Ron (42:00):

I’m going to add who asked those questions matters and is relevant to, because ironically, who the person asking, the adult asking if they’re less safe themselves, then you get less safe answers or less honest answers.

(42:13):

So for example, and I’m talking to stepparents right now, if you think, just ask yourself and talk to your spouse and say, Hey, if I’m the one checking in with the kids about how they’re feeling about between home stuff, how do you think that’s going to go over? How honest will the answers be from your children if I’m the one asking those questions? I think there’s some couples, they will say, “Oh, the kids will be great. They love you, trust you. They’re going to be honest about that.” Cool. Then stepparent, go for it.

(42:44):

But if you have that little check in as a couple and you kind of go, “Yeah, not so sure,” it’s not about you. That is not a statement about you. Don’t let that trigger. And if it does trigger you, you got to ask yourself, what’s my pain? Why am I feeling this? But the point is, it’s really not about you. It is about the child. It is about safety. Let’s let the safest person in your family equation be the one who asks those questions. Summer, I love the way you dig in this workbook into blended family bonding. For example, you talk about how new steppeople don’t replace biological parents, for example, but add to them. And you help kids think about activities that they can do with new family members and how roles change and how to ask for what you need regarding some of the between home stuff. Why is it important to dig into that, do you think?

Summer (43:36):

Yeah, I’ve been feeling prompted to share this and I’m so glad you just asked the perfect question for me to lead into it.

Ron (43:41):

You’re welcome.

Summer (43:42):

This is a God thing. Yeah, thank you.

Ron (43:43):

We’ll, thank the Holy Spirit for that.

Summer (43:45):

We recently—my oldest stepson is in the Marines. He’s in North Carolina. We recently visited him this summer. One of the things that we found and did so late in our stepfamily journey, and I’m so sad that we didn’t do it before now, but I know it is for the purpose of bringing it to others that we also did this, but we found a resource that helped us define our family mission and 12 family values.

(44:15):

We sat as a family, and we asked questions. Some of them were like, what do we want people that are leaving us to say about us or to feel about us? Or what are some of the characteristics that we want to implement in this world? How can we be a shining light as a family? So we set a family mission and then we determined 12 family values and we kind of wrote the script around it. We put scripture to each of them, and then each month we pick a family value that we’re going to choose to work on. Why I wish we would’ve done this sooner is because like any new business, any new family really needs to have a mission statement.

(44:56):

And then what values are you basing your family around? I just wish we would’ve done that when the boys were younger. But having it now and knowing, just having their adult feedback and conversations was precious too. But I think it is so important in these family bonding moments to include the children. Like, “Hey, what characteristic do you want people to leave saying about you and us as a family?” and giving the kids a voice in that, asking questions, giving them the opportunity to say, okay, stepfamilies, do not replace nuclear families. This new stepmom’s not going to replace your biological mom. That’s not what the point is. But we have created a new family, a stepfamily, and this stepfamily in this home believes that we will act in truth and integrity. We will. I don’t work through forgiveness because we too have been forgiven and just laying out some of these foundational truths that I think any good family should be built on. We want to build that foundation. So the sooner you can do it, the better. Don’t wait until your kiddos are 23 and 21. I wish we would’ve done it sooner, but it’s never too late. I’ll tell you that. It’s never too late. And practicing each this month, we’re practicing truth and trust, and how do we build truth and trust? What does that mean?

(46:22):

How can we be truthful? How can we be honest? How can we confess when we’ve made a mistake? How can we work towards that being a family value? Last month was spontaneity. We moved in the middle of the summer, so how can we stay spontaneous and joyful? That was what we worked on last month, and we really tried to be intentional in our living. And I think for stepfamilies and children, especially with this age where they’re starting to question, who am I, where do I belong and what is life going to hold for me? And we’ve shaken their foundation whether it needed to be or not, right? These kids are products of divorce, so their foundation is shaken and there’s cracks and crevices, and what better opportunity to plant new seeds into those cracks than to define what your family stands for. And no matter what, even if the other home doesn’t have those values, you can still practice those family values in the other home, be a light there. And that’s some of what I was, even just the empowerment. Okay, you don’t have rules and regulations over at mom or dad’s house. Okay, so how can you take our family values into the world or the other home and practice truth or trust, practice truth or trust over there? So it was such a great exercise. It was so, yeah, I just love it. I love that the kids were able to pour it in and also practice it.

Ron (47:41):

I love the scaffolding for this is how we’re going to do life. The meta message to me is what’s so beautiful, and it’s to say, this is who we are. This is our family. We’re defining our identity as a family unit, which is the biggest task of blended family living is figuring out your family identity. And you’re saying, “You all belong as a part of this family crest,” or however you refer to that mission statement, and that draws people in. It’s great.

Okay, last question. So pull back. What message do you hope every child walks away with after engaging this workbook?

Summer (48:23):

I am so hopeful that they feel seen and valid and loved and cared for, and that they are not alone. I know because I have felt lonely in it and that nobody else understood. And my hope is that the words throughout the workbook show them that somebody else has walked this out and that somebody else is circling back around to help her little girl self in you, through you, with you, and that you are so loved and that you have a purpose, that you are created on purpose. And even though you may not feel that at all times, that is the truth, and the truth truly will set you free. And that’s kind of the underlying message in each and every chapter.

Ron (49:08):

The book is Blended: Navigating Life Between Two Homes. Check the show notes for a link to get a copy. Summer, thank you so much for being with me.

Summer (49:17):

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Ron (49:18):

If you the listener want to know more from Summer, listen to episode 81. It’s about being a bonus mom. It’s really good. If you haven’t subscribed to our podcast either the audio version or the YouTube version, it’s your choice. We would love for you to do that, so you don’t miss an episode coming up. And if you don’t mind, leave a review or a rating that helps other people find us as well.

FamilyLife is a donor supported ministry. We can’t do this without you, so if you’d like to maybe pay it forward, the show notes, we’ll link you to a page that ensures your donation goes straight to our department at FamilyLife, FamilyLife Blended.

Now if you’re a therapist, a coach, or a ministry leader, my virtual Smart Stepfamily therapy training is coming up again in just a couple of months. Nan and I were going to be speaking in 2026 in Connecticut, in Southern and Northern California and Wisconsin and Oklahoma, Michigan, Tennessee, Georgia, and online during the National Marriage Week online events.

(50:21):

And we’re going to be on the FamilyLife cruise. So tell a friend, come see us. We would love to meet you face to face. Again, the show notes will get you connected.

Next time I’m talking with our good friend, Dr. Gary Chapman. He’s been around a while. He’s got a lot of good things to say, and he’s written, of course, another book. We’re going to be talking about it.

That’s next time on FamilyLife Blended. I’m Ron Deal. Thanks for listening or watching. And thank you to our production team and donors who make this podcast possible.

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