163: Cutting the Tension: Building Trust Between a Stepmom and Stepdaughter

Episode Transcript

FamilyLife Blended®

This content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.

Season 7, Episode 163: Cutting the Tension: Building Trust Between a Stepmom and Stepdaughter

Guests:Jessica and Jayla Pickens

Air Date: May 5, 2025

Jessica:I’ve literally just gotten to a place where I have peace and can accept the fact that I didn’t birth her. And it’s an unrealistic expectation for me to think that she’s going to feel about me the way that she feels about her mom. And it’s okay for me to say, “I am who I’m supposed to be for this child in their life.”

Ron:Welcome to the FamilyLife Blended podcast. I’m Ron Deal. We help blended families, and those who love them, pursue the relationships that matter most. Did you know that general, stepmothers and stepdaughters have the most difficult time bonding and building love and safety in their relationship? Well, today we’re talking to a bonus mom and a bonus daughter who at this point in their life actually host a podcast together. Yeah, don’t you want to hear about that journey? That’s what we’re going to be talking about.

If you’re relatively new to our listening community, we are glad to have you joining us. We have a gift for you. Just look in the show notes for our New to our Community link. And if you’re not familiar, by the way, with FamilyLife Blended, we’re the largest blended family equipping ministry in the world, at least that we know of.

We have over a dozen books, multiple video series, live events, virtual training, self-paced, online courses, leader training, this podcast, social media posts to encourage you on a daily basis and more. So be sure to check out everything that we have to offer at FamilyLife.com/Blended.

Oh, and it’s time again for our monthly Women and Blended Families livestream that’s hosted by Gayla Grace, whom you hear on this podcast on a regular basis. It’s coming up soon, so check the show notes. You don’t want to miss that.

Okay, Jessica Pickens; she left the corporate world to start Blended Family Matters Academy. In 2002, she married Tyrone, and together they raised a blended family with six children. Her co-host for her current podcast is Jayla, her bonus daughter. Now, I had the opportunity to be on their podcast and the conversation was candid and real and it was great. Now, the tables have turned, and I get to interview them. Jessica and Jayla, welcome to the podcast.

Jayla:Hi.

Jessica:Hello. Hello. Thank you for having us.

Ron:So great to have you guys, and tell our listeners where you’re joining us from today.

Jayla:We’re in Chicago, Illinois.

Ron:You’re in Chicago, and we’re in Little Rock, so it’s amazing that we get to talk.

Jayla:Absolutely.

Ron:Glad to have you guys with us.

Jessica:Yes.

Ron:I mentioned the podcast that you guys do together for blended families. I’ve got to ask, do you ever find yourself kind of getting cross with one another? Something goes sideways and you’re thinking, now what do we do? I’d love, hear a story. We want the scoop. Let’s start with that. Has that ever happened?

Jessica:Yeah.

Jayla:Yes.

Ron:Well do tell us about it.

Jessica:I guess. Well, number one, Jayla often reminds me, “Mom, get out of CEO mode. Just be normal. Relax. It’s not a business. You’re not running a business.” And she has to also often remind me that I’m not the boss of her, and her being Jayla and being able to be her authentic self as we’re doing the podcast, and that she’s entitled to her own opinion and viewpoint, which I’m a bit more conservative. I have to—well, no, my bad. Jesus, the Lord often reminds me of my way more spicier self in my twenties. And so sometimes I try to reign Jayla in or be like, “Ah, don’t say that. Don’t do that.”

Jayla:Well, hold on. Okay, let’s not act like I haven’t gotten better. I’ve gotten a lot better.

Jessica:You have.

Jayla:I’ve gotten a lot better.

Ron:I can tell it’s a spicy podcast is what I can tell.

Jessica:But it’s real.

Ron:We love that.

Jessica:Our goal is to, as we told you upfront when we invited you, is to just have organic real conversations. It is not scripted. Jayla typically prepares the questions, and I don’t know what they are, and our guests don’t know what they are. We just, again, we trust God and we really are—the goal here is to share our experiences and what we’ve learned for the purpose of being able to help other blended families.

Ron:That’s great. I just got to appreciate Jessica, you even just saying right then and there, “Yeah. Jayla needs to remind me, and I need to be reminded that sometimes I need to play a different role when we’re doing this thing and in our relationship.” Don’t you guys just think that’s life. We’re all co-creating how we do relationships with one another. We’re always listening. We’re always learning. Nan and I’ve been married now 39 years.

Jessica:Congratulations.

Ron:We’re not even close to having this thing figured out, not even close. I think we’ve learned a few things, but my goodness, every single day there’s something, right?

Jessica:It is.

Ron:There’s this constant shaving off of the parts of us that are unbecoming of our relationships, and I think that’s just life. So we live and we learn, and my guess is you guys have experienced that in your blended family as well.

Jessica:A lot.

Jayla:More than—

Jessica:A lot. I have examples from, shoot, yesterday, I was texting with the oldest son. So we’ve had two more grand babies within the last month, Ron. So our newest grandbaby is a whopping three days old.

Jayla:Yes.

Ron:Oh my goodness. Congratulations.

Jessica:Thank you. Thank you.

Ron:That’s very exciting.

Jayla:Not for me. Not for me.

Ron:I was going to say, Jayla, you’re doing great to be here, but okay. Alright, Jayla, set the stage for us. Tell us about the family. Who’s involved? Yeah, how many kids? Just all that.

Jayla:Okay. So there’s—okay.

Ron:There’s too many, just take it slow. It’s okay.

Jayla:There’s two going I’m the elite athletes, so I’m the only one that matter. Are we really going to do hear that and I’m like, “No, let’s start; let’s be—okay.

Jessica:She’s trying to behave Ron.

Jayla:So Mom and Dad—we don’t really use the term like stepmom, stepdad. This is just Mom, Dad.

Ron:Okay, got you.

Jayla:She’s been in my life since I was five, so Mom. So my bonus mom and my stepdad. See this, why we don’t use it? I’m already confused.

Jessica:Your father.

Jayla:Okay. My dad and my bonus mom, they met married in 90 days and there were four kids that came along with them. So my dad from his previous marriage had three children: me, my oldest brother and my middle brother. And then she came with my second oldest brother, Jalen. And then they together had Gabby and Dawson, our two younger siblings.

Jessica:And we took in one; it doesn’t belong to either. It is four.

Ron:Three and four, and then two more are six. And then you kind of took somebody else in along the way.

Jayla:Yeah, my sister Courtney.

Ron:Yeah.

Jayla:So

Ron:That’s fantastic. And so you’re the youngest of the three, Jayla, with your dad, right. Okay. That you guys came in together. Got it. And Jessica, you said two more grandchildren. How many grandchildren in total do you have at this point?

Jessica:So when you include Courtney, which is the non-bio by neither one of us, but nine. Number nine.

Ron:Number nine.

Jessica:Yes.

Ron:My goodness.

Jessica:Yes.

Jayla:The number of completion.

Ron:Man, that’s a lot at Thanksgiving. That’s what I know.

Jayla:And Christmas and birthdays. Yeah.

Ron:Yes.

Jessica:Yes, so nine.

Ron:Well that is a bunch. So Jayla, I want to go back to, “We don’t use that term.” Great. I’m curious, what term did you use on day one? Met and married your dad in 90 days. Who was she to you in the beginning? I’m just curious.

Jayla:Miss Jessica for like six seconds and then Mom thirty minutes after that. That’s how I was. But it was because my dad, he assumed her role in our lives, so he was like, “You’re going to call her, Mom. This your mom.” Even though we were still had a relationship with our own mother, I believe that what he was trying to do was just like, “Okay, we’re a family, so I want you to know that this is someone that you’re safe with.” Even though we didn’t have our own relationship with her, but I feel like that’s what was going on.

Ron:Good. And that set the tone. And same thing for your two older siblings—

Jayla:Yes.

Ron: —in terms of how quickly they kind of welcomed her into that space?

Jayla:They were so like, boys will be boys. We’re just here; we’re kicking it. “Hey, we got another friend. We got another brother. Okay, cool, whatever.” I feel like I’m probably the one that had to adjust. Me and her son, Jalen, my brother, we had to adjust the most because it’s like single mom and then it’s like daddy’s girl.

Ron:Right; right, right, right.

Jayla:Then it’s like, yeah.

Jessica:Yeah. It wasn’t that I was going to say you said, “Did they welcome you as well?” There wasn’t really, it wasn’t a welcoming type of situation. Again, I didn’t know until our podcast a few months ago, I had no idea that Tyrone didn’t give the kids a choice. And I think we talked a little bit about that too because I posed the question, “Is it Ms. Jessica? How are we going to…” I didn’t know that they were told until all these years later, but the boys settled in. I think their gravitation to me was more natural. I think it was just easier.

I think that innately, and again through this podcast, it’s not—our willingness to share has actually brought a lot of healing and different things that Ron, that we never sat down and talked about and stuff that I’ve learned. And she’s learned after 22—we’ve been a family for 22 years. Through this podcast we now have the backstory on stuff that we had it a lot sooner, we could have avoided some hurts, some trials, some tribulations. Again, can’t change it, and we are where we are, but that’s another reason why we want to be transparent for other people and go, “Yo, sit down and talk. Have these conversations, discuss it. Think about it.” I knew she was standoffish. Again, on the day of the wedding she was not happy.

Jayla:I thought that was the worst day of my life.

Ron:Jayla. Why? Tell us why.

Jayla:Because it was just like, oh, y’all not playing. This is for real.

Jessica:She thought we were playing house up until that point. The jokes she’ll go away—

Jayla:But my experience with the woman that my dad was with before her. So I’m like, “Dang, what’s going on?” And so them getting married, but it also was a sense of like, “Dang, where’s my dad?” I didn’t see my dad the entire day. I was a part of the wedding party. I was the bride—

Jessica:Girls are separate. The women are separate.

Jayla:—flower girl. we’re getting our hair done. I’m just sitting there “What is Dad—”

Jessica:Ron, she cried so much. I was like, and so I’m going, “Okay, this is supposed to be happy day. This is supposed to be my day,” and she was just—

Jayla:You want to know what’s funny in the wedding pictures? In the wedding pictures, you see me crying and then the couple pictures that it’s just me and my dad in the sanctuary, I’m like, I have the biggest smile on my face. My eyes are red. It is so funny.

Ron:Wow. Okay, so we got to break this down. You said you were daddy’s girl and then all of a sudden it got real and you’re going, “No, they’re not playing. This is serious, and I feel lost or disconnected from your dad?”

Jayla:I don’t even want to say lost or disconnected. I wasn’t there at that point feeling lost or disconnected. It was just like, “Where is my dad? What is going on? I don’t know these people, what is happening?” So I was just more confused than anything.

Ron:Okay. And Jessica, I think I just heard in your comment that this is supposed to be my happy day, and this little baby girl is not playing along.

Jayla:I’m sorry.

Ron:So how did feel that feel for you?

Jessica:I felt bad. I was still trying to—I had never been married. So while I had had Jalen, I had him out of wedlock. And I don’t know, most women for me, you have dreams of what you think or what you want your wedding day to be. And one, I never imagined marrying a man with kids, let alone more kids than what I was bringing to the pot. So we have this ongoing joke, like, “Look, you brought more to the pot than I did. Okay, so look now.”

It was a challenge, Ron, because I was trying to enjoy my day, but I knew her heart was hurting, and I didn’t know how to fix it. And I think Jayla can attest to this too. I typically will do for everybody else and not for myself. And so typically I would, outside of it being my wedding day, I would’ve dropped whatever to try to address and figure out what was going on. And that wasn’t really practical.

So it was one of those things where I’m having to push through and trying to enjoy while also feeling like, “Good Lord, am I destroying this child’s life? What is going on here? What’s really going on?” But I also knew she was the baby. I knew that she was daddy’s little girl and I just kind of felt like, “Okay, she’s having a moment because she’s not the center of attention.” So kind of pushing through, “Alright, what’s happening here” without, again, understanding that really it was really a lot deeper in a sense that we never even peeled back until within the past few months.

Ron:This is so valuable guys, because I want our listeners and our viewers to something. There’s a very common dynamic that’s happening. And in fact, Jayla, you used the word that I’ve used for years. I say to parents and stepparents, when you see sadness or concern or something on a child’s face about this becoming a reality, your blended family actually happening, don’t necessarily think of it as rejection. Don’t necessarily put it in the category of she’s mad or she’s never going to like this or embrace the situation. Confusion is the word that I would tell people. And that’s exactly the word you used. “I just felt confused. I didn’t know where my dad was. I didn’t know what was going on with me. I don’t know who these people are. I don’t know what all this means.” And if I remember right, you were four or five years of age at this point.

Jayla:Five.

Jessica:Five.

Ron:So again, most 15-year-olds and 25-year-olds are confused, and they don’t even know what words to put on it, let alone a four-year-old or a five-year-old.

Jessica:Yeah.

Ron:So there’s this stuff welling up inside, don’t know what to do with it, don’t know what to make of it. The adults are going, “Yeah, I think it could be this, it could be that” “Oh no, is it this?” And everybody’s just sort of wandering in the wilderness, trying to navigate that terrain and not really knowing what it means or what we should do about it.

I just think that’s the journey for a lot of people. And it is only sometime after whatever that moment is—for you guys, it was a wedding day. For other people it just could be normal everyday stuff that sort of shows you, there’s something here, but I don’t know what to do with it. And at some point, you begin to unpack. You just try to, and it’s not an easy journey to get there.

And even for you guys to say, “It took us 20 years to sit down and have some honest dialogue where we feel safe enough to do that.” And then you begin to understand, “Oh, that’s what it was about for you.” So I just want to say to our listener and viewer, no matter where you are in your journey, there’s probably something else to uncover in those other people and also for you to uncover as it relates to how you share with them what you’ve been experiencing along the way.

So with that, let me just sort of, let’s keep rolling with this. I think it’s a really important conversation. Jayla, I’m curious, fast forward a little bit. You started calling her “Mom” pretty quick, no step, no bonus, just “Mom.” How would you describe your relationship to her? Did it feel like mom? To what degree was it like that and was there ever a little bump in the road for you? It’s like, “Yeah, no, I’m not so sure I want you in that position in my life.” And that might’ve even been when you were older or a teenager or something. I’m just curious.

Jayla:It started very early actually, just because of the fact that I have, it’s not like I didn’t have a relationship with my mom. So it was like have a relationship with my mom, so I probably didn’t feel the need of having a mom. So then learning recently from her point of view, she’s just trying to be a mom, assuming the role, doing what she needs to do, what she thinks is to be a mom to a little girl anyway. And then here I am, “What are we doing here? What’s up? You’re trying to parent me.”

But then it was also resentment towards her because I felt like when her and my dad got married, it was more so he just gave me to her, like, “Okay, I’m giving the reins to you so I could focus on the boys, and you can have the girl.” So it was very rocky, very rocky. Then middle school, high school, it was like the top of the Rocky Mountains. And then we honestly didn’t even really get really close or gain a good bonding relationship where we could even sit down and have conversations like we do now until we moved up here, in my personal opinion.

Ron:So that took quite a while.

Jessica:Yeah, it was like eight. We’ve been up here, what, eight years and really it was still a little because you had just come back.

Jayla:Yeah.

Jessica:But it was after she had gone through.

Ron:So if my math rights somewhere over a decade, 12, 14 years, something like that.

Jessica:Oh way more, yeah.

Ron:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So Jayla, I think I heard loss as it relates to your relationship with your dad because he sort of handed you off, and so that took something away from you. I think I heard loyalty in the comment about your mother; strong relationship with your mom, at least committed to her. And so you didn’t really know where to put Jessica, didn’t want to hurt that relationship with your mom, or does loyalty seem the right word?

Jayla:I never thought about it like that. I don’t even want to necessarily say loyalty. In my brain when I think of loyalty, I think of, there’s an opposition. I don’t feel like she was an opposition. I feel like it was more so tread lightly because I don’t know her and she’s trying to get to know me, but from my previous experiences, I’m not trying to get to know you. And I’m like five, you know what I’m saying? So it was a push off thing.

But then getting older and when discipline started coming into play, not saying that discipline was never a thing until I got older, but just as far as you get older, you want to social life, you want to dress different, you want to be on social media, blah, blah, blah. But the structure that we had, it kind of made me, I guess it was a scapegoat situation because she was the one that dealt with me the most. So more problems arise, yeah.

Ron:So both of you were kind of thrust into, might even say sort of an unfair situation where you had to deal with behavioral issues or what have you, and really neither one of you had the footing or the clarity to your relationship to know how to do that.

Jessica:Correct. I think some context so that the audience understands too, and you may want to share a little bit more than that. Again, after Ty was divorced from Jeri, Jayla’s mom, he was in one serious, other serious relationship where they thought they were heading towards marriage. And I didn’t know until, again, disclosed through us doing our own podcast and whatnot, that Jayla was mistreated by that individual which caused major trust issues.

Ron:Yeah, sure.

Jessica:And so there was no understanding or knowledge of that, which would’ve laid a totally different foundation had I known that from the beginning, number one. All those years I thought Jayla just didn’t like me, didn’t want me because she wanted her mom and dad to be back together. And so even later as a teenager, again, Tyrone and I did hit a point where it just got severely rough because there was a lot going on with him and Jalen and with my firstborn son and clashing heads. And then there was so much going on with Jayla and I to the point to where we were two seconds away from calling it quits. We literally were discussing divorce.

Literally, I took the two babies, Dawson and Gabby, who are now in college and went to a girlfriend’s house for three, four days to just have some prayer time and go, “God, what do I do here?” Because of, it just felt like I couldn’t win because I was like, “I’ve done all that I can. I’ve done what I thought I was supposed to do to be a mom to all these kids,” the ones I birthed and the ones that I didn’t. And to feel unappreciated and to feel, I literally felt like she hated me. I really did. I mean, we had some severe interactions and again, thank God it never got physical with us, which with Tyrone and Jalen, there were physical times.

He’s head of the household. My husband is from down south. It is a different type of rearing. And my mom often reminds me that I was no walk in the park as a child, let alone as an adult. And so my son Jalen is like me on steroids. And so just when you’re trying to figure it out, so there was a lot of turmoil going on where you’re trying to figure out what the heck and where we missed it.

Hindsight being 2020, Ron, where we missed it is exactly what we started out talking about. We didn’t sit down and involve the kids in the beginning in an appropriate way as far as having communication and figuring out where are they at, how are they feeling? It was just kind of old school of—

Ron:Here it is.

Jessica:Here it is, and we’re going to do—

Ron:This is the way it’s going to work like it or not.

Jessica:And again, me assuming the role of mom for everybody, and yes, they have relationship with their mom. They went every other weekend to see their mom and whatnot. At the same time—because it’s not a but—at the same time, I’m in the house all day every day and there were things that had to be handled. There are responsibilities. There’s bedtime. There’s homework. There’s snacks. There’s this, there’s who, and I think Ty, her dad had been—he’d been a single parent at this point for four years. You get exhausted. Single parenting is challenging all day, every day. And so he was kind of like, “Yeah,” like, “Woo, okay, I got help here. Go forth and conquer the family stuff lady.”

And so when you get, and we just jumped right in there without going, wait a minute, how do we make sure, where are the kids and how do we understand and build relationship in a way that makes it a more healthy environment? And I think I wanted to be so accepted too. I literally just said this when we were talking on one of our, we recorded a couple days ago, Ron. I have literally to be 100 percent honest.

So for all the other bonus moms and bonus parents out there, I’ve literally just gotten to a place where I have peace and can accept the fact that I didn’t birth her. And it’s an unrealistic expectation for me to think that she’s going to feel about me the way that she feels about her mom. And it’s okay for me to say I am who I’m supposed to be for her and to her, and it’s not a competition. I never tried to take her mom. I never, never badmouthed her mom. We were never, I thank God we never had that level of contention, but getting to a place where you go, “Okay, what’s my appropriate role and how do I do what God has called me to do and be who he’s called me to be and just for this child in their life?”

Ron:Yeah. I am listening to you guys, and I want to make a comment again to the listener to try to put some pieces together, but then I’d love for both of you to react to it, okay. I think one of the binds that parents in blended families have is we’ve got to figure out a structure. We’ve got to figure out how we’re going to move forward. We’ve got our ideas of how to parent and what we should do and how we’re going to navigate that. And we’re in charge. We’re the parents, we’re going to be in charge.

And so sometimes you just go forward, as you guys said you did, “This is the way it’s going to be and like it or not, here it is.” And you sort of dictate those rules, those boundaries if you will, about how you’re going to do family life to the kids, and they just got to sort of accommodate to that. But if there’s any sort of pushback, any sort of ripple at any given point in time, then you’re like, “Well, maybe we should hear them out.” “Well, if we hear them out, does that mean that we’re putting them in charge of the family?”

And what I want to say to people is, look, that’s a real bind. You want to be in charge, and yet there’s this real important listening element that you can still be in charge, but listen, you can still be the parents, but be in tune with and attuning, if I could use it that word, to what’s going on with the children so that it informs how you’re in charge. To listen, to ask, to dialogue, to hear, to go, “Oh, I guess they don’t like it that way. Maybe we could reconsider it.” That does not mean you’re giving up your power. If anything, it’s informing your power and how you walk out the leadership that you feel like you need to take. I just feel like people need to know there’s a way you can do that.

Jessica:Yes.

Ron:It’s not easy, it’s not always clear, but strive to do both. Otherwise you put yourself in a position where you’re just making the rules my way or the highway, and that just engenders a lack of trust from kids or at least from one. And then the conflict erupts and then it sort of ripples into other areas of your life. Slowing it down and listening is a way to sort of navigate through it as best you can. Now, there it is. I’d love for both of you to just react to that with the 22 years of hindsight you have. Jayla, what would you say?

Jayla:With the 22 years of hindsight that I have, I 100 percent agree with that.

Jessica:Yes.

Jayla:I feel like parents have to get to a point of understanding that open communication with your kids helps your life so much more in my personal opinion. I have a three-year-old going on forty and—

Jessica:You leave my ? alone.

Jayla:No, but seriously, I try to teach her body autonomy, and I try to teach her that it’s okay to communicate with me if she doesn’t like something. Now there’s a way you say it. Yeah. But I feel like I don’t want my child or any children that I ever have to feel like they can’t talk to me if they see behaviors in me that I’m not recognizing because I am me. You know what I’m saying?

Ron:Yep.

Jayla:So growing up I wish—we had a podcast episode where we were talking about the high lows of the day. So basically high lows for people that don’t know what it is, is basically you go around the table, whether it’s a dinner table, whether you’re at the couch chilling, watching Sunday night football, you go around and you ask each other what the high point of your day is and what the low point of your day is.

I just really feel like that gets inside of the brains of everyone that you live with on a regular basis, and you can see how they’re thinking, and you can try to be helpful to them in some sort of way, whether they have only a high for the day or whether they have only a low. And doing that every night or every once a week can just help you keep on track. And I really wish, and I say it all the time, I wish we would’ve kept that going because that would’ve been an open form of communication so we can see how each other feel. I feel like most people think that open communication is, “Well, I don’t like that you did this” and “You’re not doing this right.” That’s not really always what it’s about.

Ron:Yeah, that’s a one-way communication. That’s not a two directional avenue going back and forth. Jessica, what are your thoughts?

Jessica:I think that I totally agree, number one, that again, hindsight being 20/20, if I had it to do over, definitely would have done that piece differently. I think that one for us, culture had a lot to do with how Ty and I had been raised. Well, how he had been raised. Here’s what’s a little bit nuanced and crazy though actually, because my mother’s actually Caucasian, so I’m biracial. My father was black, and I was raised by my mom. My parents were divorced when I was four, almost five. But my mother’s style of parenting really was more like a black household, how my mom is. And so it was more, while there was open communication, we still knew very crisply at certain times when things were said there was no questions. Don’t try to, there could be some not nice consequences if you try to push back too much in certain ways. As was Tyrone was raised by his grandmother and his mother had him when he was young, and he was raised by his great aunt and raised by women who ran a tight ship that you get to question too much or talk crazy then again, they’ll be to see you.

Ron:Authoritarian, kind of

Jaylaa:Authoritative; authoritarian. I was just going to—

Jessica:Yes, we did that episode, right. But for me, I actually—one of the crazy things though, Ron, is that when you’re in it, I thought we talked about that too. The kids knew I was one that I would allow more communication. I would ask questions. A lot of times they didn’t want to talk. Again, like our one son, Dominic, we used to say all the time, “Boy, I do not have time to tie you to the back of a truck with a chain and drag you down the street to make you talk. Can you answer the question? What is going on?” But he was like, Tyrone, he internalized, right? So he internalized a lot. But with Ty, if he said something to you and you tried to talk back or—

Jayla:You couldn’t breathe the wrong way or there was a problem.

Jessica:But for him, again, we’ve unpeeled some of this because for him he has had to fight. One, he grew up in a household unfortunately that wasn’t safe. So there was physical abuse, mental abuse, and so he internalized. And so his structure and how he parented, again to an earlier comment, the adults have to understand, have you fully unpacked your stuff because your trauma and what you’ve been through informs what you’re doing and how you think you’re doing it. You think it looks one way when in reality you get on the back end, your kids are going, “No, you didn’t really want us to talk to you.” Because I would be like—

Ron:Yeah, he pursued safety for himself through control would be my guess. That’s one of his big tools. And so that was a controlling parenting environment. Authoritarian wasn’t much space for kids to be a part of that conversation. So even if you did ask, they may not offer because of the potential risk of what’s to come if they say something that—

Jessica:And you had his three original babies who had a relationship and a bond, and they knew no matter what that he loved them, so they would deal with it. Which the response from Jalen, the only non-biological of him in the house before we took any, they didn’t start with that bond. So his automatic response was to push back because he was used to it just being he and I, where when it was he and I, we did have a lot of talking and communication. So it got very tricky.

Jayla:I feel like there needs to be both

Jessica:Yeah, and there does need to be a balance. And I think that’s what you’re saying, Ron, you want to be—particularly in blended families, I think that if you don’t figure out the right balance, to your point, of okay, well one, parents starting with “Where am I at in unpacking and unpacking my stuff? Have I really dealt with what I need to deal with before I start projecting my issues and my insecurities and my hurts and traumas onto the little people that I’m now responsible for?”

But then secondly, being able to go, “Okay,” being mature enough to be open-minded to go “Just because this is how I was raised or this is just because this is what I’ve seen and what I thought,” there’s room for adjustment. You can find new ways. You can find what works best and what is most healthy for your family.

Ron:That’s so good, so important. And I’m just sitting here thinking I have to say our new book, The Mindful Marriage, is a deep dive into unpacking that stuff. When you say you got to do your work, so you realize what you’re bringing to the parenting equation as a stepparent or as a biological parent, that book is really going to help people do that.

I’m also going to add this comment because I’m listening to you. We say in that book that when couples divorce, for example, we often say, “Well, she just fell out of love with him” or “He fell out of love with her.” And I’m coming to believe that more often than not, this is not always the case. But really what happens first is that you fall out of safety with one another. You stop investing yourself into the arms of the other person because you’re not sure it’s a safe place.

You don’t know how to trust them. You don’t know how to trust yourself with them. You don’t know how to trust the relationship and what it’s going to be able to endure in terms of conflict, for example. And so you start withdrawing and all those little steps that are about self-protection and guarding against a lack of safety then leads to a lack of affection and falling out of love.

The reverse is true for blended families. You don’t fall in love with your stepparent, your stepsibling, your step whoever. What you first do is learn how to feel safe with them. And that’s what opens the door to you feeling like you are family where you can love them. Like them comes first and then love them. But safety, like, love, that’s the progression. And so if there’s not safety, if I don’t know how to be around you, I don’t know how to sit and get along and just sort of even be casual or decent with one another, then there’s no way I’m ever moving towards loving you and really fully embracing you as a family member.

Jessica:That right there, if you’re not blended yet and you know you’re going to be or you want to be or you’re working on it, that formula, Ron, will change, can change, the entire trajectory and even timeline—which is okay—of what you’re preparing to do because you’re precisely right. We didn’t start there. And again, I’ll own, for me, I can’t speak for Tyrone. We obviously have lots of conversations and I truly believe—well, I know his thought process and innately men’s thought processes typically are a bit different because mothers are nurturers. And so I just was very unrealistic, like, “Oh, the kids think and feel like I do.” Like, “Oh, we’re going to be this big happy family automatically now.”

Ron:They even called you Mom. They even called you—

Jessica:They did.

Ron:The terminology might have added to your confusion about that.

Jessica:Yeah. Well, and again, I’m a type A. I’m a get her done type of gal. And so

I just thought that if I did the right things and I did the role that I felt and knew mothers were supposed to do from a job perspective of the dailies: I get you up; I feed you breakfast; I get you to school. I got you in sports. I got you in ballet. You’re playing football, you’ll over here. We’re running all over town. We’re going in 50 different directions. I’m scheduling; we’ve got the whiteboard. We’ve got this; we’ve got that. I’m making sure.

So I felt that those things showed—which actions, you got to have actions. We know actions speak louder than words, but it was just such a misunderstanding and not unrealistic thought process for me to think that these kids, these babies, because they were five, seven, eight, and nine, that what was automatic for the grownups was going to be automatic for them. And it was so wrong. It was so wrong.

And so having to start with, like you said, I would absolutely, if I could hit a rewind, absolutely start from a place of building relationship to create safety first and be realistic and be okay. Because if you’re not okay with a progression, then look, man, make a different choice, be mature and be an adult because the kids are going to be the collateral damage.

Ron:Yeah, that is well said.

Guys, let’s turn the corner. I’m curious, you interview people for your podcast, just walking through life, friends, family, people you meet in the community from both of your standpoints, your walk in life, wherever you are. What are you hearing from other people about their blended families? Are there a couple of things that rise to the surface that you go, “Yeah, these are things that people wrestle with?”

Jayla:I would say for my age range especially, there’s a lot of people come to our house and they’re like, “Oh my gosh, you guys are like the Huxtables. You guys are the black Brady Bunch.” And we’re like, “Yeah, no.”

Ron:And it took us a long time to get to where we are even now.

Jayla:Right, so they’re in such disbelief that there’s a mom and a dad. Outside of there being a mom and a dad, they’re in such disbelief that we spend quality time together, that we’re always around each other, we kick it, how we kick it with each other. They’d just be like, “Oh my gosh.”

So most people in my age range that I see, they don’t really have close-knit relationships with even their own family, let alone a blended family. So I feel like that’s why a lot of the people that me and my siblings have been around are so drawn to us because we’re almost like a safety for people. We’re a safe haven for people. People know they can come to us.

Ron:Am I hearing you right? They haven’t experienced a family that works, that loves and tries to take care of each other. Wow.

Jayla:Yeah. That doesn’t gaslight them into being around them, that guilt trip them into, I’m the kid, you’re the parent, but I want you to treat me like the kid. And you be the parent, just turmoil and the list goes on. But I feel like our family shows people that you can achieve certain things. You can be loved by people that are close to you. You can be listened to and heard and have tough conversations, but not so tough that we don’t ever want to talk to each other again. We stick it through with each other no matter what.

Ron:Wow. Jessica, what are you hearing from people you talk to?

Jessica:A lot of feedback, particularly from different guests that we’ve had on, but also just from different friends and family that watch our podcasts regularly, who you jump out there, Ron, as you’re, and you do, “Okay, God, this is hard, but okay. Yes sir. I’m going to do what I feel you’re telling me to do.” But a lot of people, from a perspective, I believe your question, what are people thinking or what may be a couple of things that seems to be a common theme or resonating as far as blended family topic or issues.

A lot of the, I would say I’ve had multiple people comment on one, the factor of getting Jayla’s perspective, the child’s perspective, the bonus child perspective, and the way that she has expressed and the way that we have been transparent and talked about our struggles as a bonus parent and bonus child has helped multiple people who have responded to me saying, “You are helping our family heal.”

Because we’ve never looked at, I never looked at it like that. We’ve never talked about this. I’ve literally had a couple girlfriends go, “We are crying our eyes out, just listening to you guys,” and “Don’t stop doing this no matter what. Promise me.” Because you feel like you don’t. “Okay, oh, there’s only 55 views. Oh, there’s”—you get caught up in the stuff of, “Okay, did I hear wrong, God? Who wants to go through all of this for no reason?” But I think communication and the misunderstanding, the unrealistic expectations really, Ron.

So I would say communication and unrealistic expectations when it comes to understanding that one, it’s okay to hit the pause button and take a step back no matter how far you’re in, or if you’re preparing to get married and you’re creating a blended family and you run into your information and materials or ours, but you get new information, you go, “Whoa, wait a minute.” I cannot beg and plead enough for people to go, just call a timeout, take a moment—

Ron:Get informed.

Jessica:—like straight up.

Ron:Get a map for the journey.

Jessica:Because we did not. And again, I’m telling you by the grace of God and through a lot of hard work and then making grownup decisions that, okay, we’re going to keep going, we’re going to keep trying. Because to your point earlier, it doesn’t stop. We had a snafu this weekend and you go, “Life is life.”

Ron:Right.

Jessica:Yeah. Life is life and people are people, and we’re going to miss it. We going to have days where you just don’t feel like it and somebody going to say something and it’s going to sound disrespectful or it’s going to feel disrespectful, or you’re coming a bit harsh because you agitated about this over here, and you don’t even mean for it to come out, or you think it didn’t come out like that, but it did. And that’s just regular stuff.

That’s regular stuff, let alone navigating the other co-parent, the bio parent who don’t really like you is due to show up at your doorstep at 1:00 PM today to pick up the kids and you ain’t got the laundry done yet and already know it’s going to be drama and mentally you’re tired.

So until you start to understand the reality of the complexities, there are some foundational, just like you said, rules to the game that come along with blended families that there has not been for us. Again, we told you when we were like, “Where has Ron Deal been? Where did he come from?” Because Lord had we had knowledge of these resources years ago, and again, you can do, could or would’ve, should have, but I’d want to plead with people, it’s never too late. Just make a decision.

Ron:There you go.

Jessica:Make a decision and get educated now and then be okay continuing to learn and grow and talk about it. So that communication and communication with the parents and the kids, allowing checking in with the kids no matter the age, figure out how for it to be age appropriate If they’re younger, and then especially, boy, you hit them teenage years, that’s challenging for traditional families. That’s all by itself, let alone throwing in the complexities of a blended family.

And then again, even if you’re a blended family with adult kids and grandkids, all of that is still gnarly. It’s just gnarly. And if you don’t sit down and decide to put a conscious effort towards, what does this look like? How do we navigate this? How do we create a safe space? How do we develop relationship and go from, yeah, I love him, but do you even like him? What do you think? Then if you don’t do that, you’re setting yourself up for some challenges where people may make you feel like, or just straight up tell you that you’re going to have to choose, and now all of a sudden you find yourself in a scenario, where “Am I choosing my kids? Am I choosing my spouse?”

Ron:So difficult, yes. You guys are nailing it, and I’m just going to land the plane because that message of intentionality is something people need to hear and it’s the right message. We call it around here, Getting Stepfamily Smart, so you understand what’s going on around you so you can navigate that territory as best you can.

And guys, I got to give you a compliment before we close, and that is simply this. Your story, each of you have talked about it in different elements from your point of view today. Your story is one of a long journey that finally led to a payoff. I like to joke, there is a honeymoon for blended family couples that just comes at the end of the journey and not at the beginning. And I mean, just listening to the arc of your family journey. There was a moment somewhere in there where you could have called it quits, but you didn’t. You stuck it out. You kept trying; tried to get a little more intentional, kept working, then those tough teenage years hit. But look at where you’re at now. I mean to me, the two of you are a picture of hope for our viewers and our listeners, and the fact that you’re now on the other side helping other people by telling your story and continuing to work and process and be intentional as a family. God bless you.

Jayla:Thank you.

Jessica:Thank you.

Ron:Thank you for what you’re doing. Keep doing it.

Jessica:Thank you.

Ron:I appreciate you being with me today.

Jayla:Thank you.

Jessica:Thank you. Thank you for having us.

Ron:Well, to our listeners and viewers, you want to learn more about the Pickens’ Reality podcast? I think you probably do. Check the show notes. We’ll get you connected to their online academy as well.

Let me just remind you that FamilyLife is a donor supported ministry, and we can’t do this without you. All gifts are tax deductible and let me just thank you in advance for partnering with FamilyLife to build smart stepfamilies around the world. To give, again, look for the link in the show notes.

Another way to help us, you can just simply share this podcast with a friend or a ministry leader. It takes all of 30 seconds and you might help somebody, just like Jessica was saying, they didn’t know about us. They hadn’t found our materials or resources for whatever reason. We understand that; it’s a big world. It’s a lot of stuff going on out there. If you take 30 seconds and share this with somebody you think could probably benefit, who knows? Maybe you just helped them become far more intentional on behalf of their family.

A quick reminder, if you’re looking for my speaking schedule or livestream schedule, go to SmartStepfamilies.com, click events. Sure would be fun to talk with you in person at one of our upcoming Mindful Marriage conferences that Nan and I are doing together, or a stepfamily event or our annual Summit on Stepfamily Ministry coming this fall. Then you can help other people. We’d love to see you there.

Okay, next time. I’m really excited about this. Next time we’re talking with one of my heroes, Dr. John Townsend. You may not know that name, but maybe you do. He’s co-author of the Boundaries book, Boundaries series of books that have sold millions of copies around the world. We’re talking with John about how to have a healthy family, healthy relationships, and let me tell you, you do not want to miss what he had to say about parenting teenagers. I was taking notes while I was interviewing him. It was that good; what he has to say about parenting teenagers.

That’s next time on FamilyLife Blended. I’m Ron Deal, thanks for listening or watching. And thank you to our production team and donors who make this podcast possible.

FamilyLife Blended is part of the FamilyLife Podcast Network. Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.

We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you’ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?

Copyright © 2025 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.

www.FamilyLife.com