
Becoming the Boss to Managing Your Feelings: Bobby & Rebecca Markham, Christian & Maddie Villafane
Managing your feelings is a key step in building a successful marriage. In this episode, several guests discuss personal stories and insights on managing emotions, the importance of intentionality, and the role of mentorship in building strong, lasting marriages.

Show Notes
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About the Guest

Bobby and Rebecca Markham
Bobby and Rebecca Markham have been married since 1999 and have five wonderful children and one son-in-law. Bobby served as a student pastor from 2002-2019 in Arkansas before he and Rebecca joined staff with FamilyLife in 2020 and relocated to Orlando, Florida.

Christian and Maddie Villafane
Christian and Maddie Villafane met in 2018 at church and got married in 2022. They share a love for serving in youth ministry and spending quality time together, whether it’s enjoying a cozy movie night, getting competitive over card games, or tackling house projects! Their dog, Otis, occasionally supervises their adventures—though his real talent lies in being adorable. They hope to continue doing ministry together as long as the Lord sees fit!
Episode Transcript
FamilyLife Today® with Dave and Ann Wilson – Web Version Transcript
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Becoming the Boss to Managing Your Feelings
Guests:Bobby and Rebecca Markham and Christian and Maddie Villafane
From the series:Becoming the Boss to Managing Your Feelings (Day 1 of 1)
Air date:January 20, 2025
Jeff: Before I would end any entry, I would say, “We may have been at odds with each other today, but I just want you to know I’m so grateful for you about this…” I would begin to put a list down. The oddest thing happened: by the time I went upstairs from my office, all of that heat and emotion that I’d been feeling somehow left.
Ann: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Ann Wilson.
Dave:And I’m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.
Dave: I’m thinking today is going to be a great day—
Ann: I do, too.
Dave:—for a couple of reasons. The couples we have sitting around the table—we’ll introduce them in a second—but whenever you get to sit with the pros—the best in the world at what they do—and learn from them, that’s a good day.
Ann: Right; and we have the pros today.
Dave:We have the pros. The pros are sitting around a table, but we’re going to watch a segment of Married with Benefits®, our podcast with FamilyLife, which is Brian Goins with Shaunti Feldhahn.
Ann:But we also have joining them—
Dave:—Jeff.
Ann: —Jeff, her husband.
Dave:He’s coming in remote, but they’re talking about their book, The Surprising Secrets of Highly Happy Couples, which is—it’s a long story to try and understand this—but they found the most happy marriages. They call them highly happy—crazy term—and they’re very satisfied in their marriages. So it’s like: “What do they do? What are their habits?” And she calls them secrets that they have. Today’s secret—this is a weird term, in my opinion: “boss your feelings”—highly-happy couples boss their feelings.
“What in the world does that mean?” We’re going to find out right now; and then, we’re going to interview these couples around the table and get your response to what they say. So you guys ready?
Christian and Bobby: Ready.
Dave: Alright; you’re ready. Let’s watch Shaunti, Jeff, and Brian and find out what “boss your feelings” means.
[Married with Benefits Podcast]
Brian:The secret is that you can actually learn to boss your feelings around rather than just feel your feelings, like, “Oh, they’re my feelings; I just feel them.” But you guys were saying you discovered: “No, you can actually boss your feelings around.”
Shaunti: We had a study group as part of this research project—where Jeff and I were talking to, not just people who were the happiest couples; but within that group, there were people who had gone from being in a pretty desperate spot in their marriage; and now, they were part of this highly-happy group—I wanted to talk to them in particular. I’m like, “What changed?” And this one woman said, ”I realized, for our whole marriage, I was letting my feelings boss me around; and I decided, ‘No, I’m going to boss my feelings around.’”
Brian:—and specifically about her husband
Shaunti: —about her husband. That was a great way of capturing it. When we tested it statistically, we kept seeing it in these happy couples. We kept seeing examples of doing something that literally changed their train of thought.
Brian:Can’t somebody just say, “Well, that’s probably because the reason why—you were testing/you were testing people, who naturally have a cup half-full life; or they’re always either excited—
Shaunti: Tigger!
Brian: Well, yeah; Tigger. Or they’re just going to be: “I’m going to will myself into a better place.” Are you telling me that this is across the board—regardless of personality type?—
Shaunti: Regardless—
Brian:—you can boss your feelings around.
Shaunti: —regardless of temperament. One of the things that we had been nervous about, all the way through the research, was this question of temperament; and then, something happened. Remember, we had discovered we were in this highly-happy marriage, where it hadn’t always been that way. Suddenly, we’re like, “Wow, we really are in this highly-happy marriage.” What got us there, we realized was something that Jeff had done, without realizing it would radically change the course of our marriage.
Jeff: I wish there was a strategy or a plan that I had to do this and accomplish this task; but really, what it came from was when Shaunti turned 39.
Shaunti: —just a couple years ago.
Brian:Exactly.
Jeff: I got into my head that her 40th birthday: “That’s a pretty big milestone. She’s the type of person who loves getting gifts. She loves thought and care put into that.” So in my mind, “I really need to step it up to make sure that her 40th birthday is going to be something special.” I decided I would write her a book, essentially, which would be: “A
Year in the Life of Shaunti.” I would diligently record every single day of her 39th year—what transpired in our life; what transpired in her life with our kids; between us—all of those things. I would then, the day before her birthday, go; get it bound and compiled into a book; and hand it to her.
Brian:I’m really glad that my 40th and Jen’s 40th has passed now; but now, I could imagine my wife going—if she were here—”Okay, my next big birthday, you’re going to write a book for me, right?” Thanks, Jeff!
Jeff: Yeah, I can hear the men, on the other end of this, thinking, “I hate this guy.” Well, let me just disabuse you, and all of the men listening, about my ability to give good gifts to my wife.
Shaunti: This was a good gift. Just let’s just say this was an amazing gift.
Brian:Is this what he would naturally have done?
Shaunti: No.
Brian:No; okay. So what did you learn in this process, Jeff? You write this book; and then, what happens?
Jeff: Yeah, so here’s what happened: I would make little notes throughout the day; and then, at the end of the day, I would go down to my home office, and sit in front of my computer, and type it all out into a Word document.
Shaunti: I should say, I had no idea he was doing this.
Brian:Yeah, totally clueless.
Shaunti: He would often run down to his home office anyway. I had no idea—he’d be down there for five minutes; sometimes, ten minutes—I didn’t know that this was happening.
Jeff: I wanted to be very accurate of the particular day. And there were days when Shaunti and I weren’t on, so to speak, the same page, and there were a lot of emotions flying around. I would get down to my home office in quite a mood—feeling pretty chapped about something—and I would just be sitting there, hammering away at the keys, and going, “And then, you said this…; and it made me feel this way…”; because I wanted to capture her in a day in her life.
Brian:So you weren’t just capturing the great sunny days?
Jeff: No, no; it wasn’t the Instagram-version of her year. As I was doing this for a week or two, I got this thought that: “Maybe, our kids will read this in 25 or 30 years; and they’ll go, ‘Dad, you were kind of a jerk at some of these moments.’” I wanted to kind of be honest about what had transpired; but I also wanted to, in each entry, say something positive. And so I began to, before I would end any entry, I would say, “We may have been at odds with each other today, but I just want you to know I’m so grateful for you about this…” I would begin to put a list down. The oddest thing happened: by the time I went upstairs from my office, all of that heat and emotion that I’d been feeling, on the way down, somehow left. I didn’t really recognize it; all I knew is that I felt better. I didn’t connect the dots.
Brian:Yeah; so when did you connect those dots? I mean, that’s a pretty big statement: that you went down the stairs, feeling one way about your wife; you came back up the stairs. The only thing that changed is that you wrote down a few words.
Shaunti: Yep.
Brian:When did you connect the dots?—“That’s exactly what I was doing; I was telling my feelings where to go.”
Jeff: When we were hearing other couples talk about their relationship in this research, it was like, “That’s what it was, Shaunti.” That’s what we did—I had me to do it—I did.
Shaunti: Well, the thing that was astounding was this had been probably—I’m trying to back it up—but this had probably been five years.
Jeff: —at least.
Shaunti: Because it had been quite a few years back, it just hadn’t occurred to me; and yet, when we started hearing these other couples, we both went, “This is what we’re hearing, and that is what you did.” It was so powerful to realize that what he was basically doing was literally changing his mind. He was literally changing the course of his thoughts, and it changed the course of his feelings.
Jeff: I wasn’t changing my thoughts with wishful thinking about Shaunti. I was remembering the truth about Shaunti—about the things that she does so well—that I often just take for granted. We all have them; every marriage has them. Every husband has those thoughts about his wife; every wife has those thoughts about her husband. We forget to look at them; we need to remind ourselves.
[Studio]
Dave:Wow! So let’s talk about “boss your feelings.” We got the Markhams here—Bobby and Rebecca Markam are sitting over here—[married] 25 years; five kids; on staff of FamilyLife. You still in love with each other?
Bobby: Yes; even more now.
Rebecca: Oh, yes; very much.
Dave:“Even more now than…” What do you mean? “…more” than when?
Bobby: Just several years ago, God transformed our marriage. Since then, we’ve grown in our love for one another.
Dave:Alright; we got to come back to that in a second; I want to know if transforming your marriage had anything to do with bossing your feelings.
On the other side [of the table], we’ve got almost a newlywed couple; I mean, you’ve been married two years now?
Christian and Maddie: Yes; two and a half.
Dave: Christian and Maddie Villafane. Two and a half years? You got to get that extra six months. Now, when you hear that, what do you think? Are you guys madly in love?
Maddie: Yes; I mean, we’re filled with so much admiration for Bobby and Rebecca. They happen to be our mentors, so we look up to them. That fills us with so much hope: as much as we’re in love now, in 25 years, it’ll be that much more.
Dave:Now what’s that look like?—mentors?
Maddie: Well, they actually are small group leaders.
Dave: I’m trying to grasp that concept—what hit you?—anything jump out? Do you agree with it? Do you do it? Is it hard; is it easy? What do you think?
Christian: It’s hard; it’s very hard.
Ann: Why do you think it’s hard, Bobby?
Bobby: Every time we have situations, where you either boss your feelings or you don’t, it’s literally the Galatians 5: flesh and Spirit. I feel it inside; I really do. I heard John MacArthur, years ago, talk about “our old man being put to death” as a chicken with its head cut off. While it’s dead, it’s flapping around in this world. It’s something I seriously feel inside of me in certain moments in our relationship. It doesn’t have to be big explosive issues; it can be the small things; and then, all of a sudden, you feel this tension inside, waging war: “Am I going to do this for the good of us or am I going to stand my ground?” Oftentimes, I stand my ground; and I hurt her.
Ann: We feel like, “I am right!”
Bobby: Yes, very much so.
Ann: “I am right!”
Dave: Do you feel the passion when she said that? This has happened in our home many times.
Ann: So to subdue that, it can only be done through the power of Christ!
Bobby: Yes.
Ann: Because I want to win it!
Bobby: And it’s everything that Ann just said, with that same kind of passion; I’m feeling that inside, oftentimes, too. I have this fight-to-win personality—and I have a real strong sense of right and wrong—and so I can be wrong; but if I think I’m right, then we’re in trouble.
Ann: Yes.
Dave:Let me read how Shaunti defined this surprising secret in her book; because when you read it, you’re like, “Who can do this?” She says: “Highly-happy couples quickly stop a negative train of thought or action, replacing unhappy or angry thoughts or actions with positive ones, in order to change their feelings.” A couple words in there jump out—“quickly”—you don’t go down this train very long; as soon as you start feeling those unhappy [thoughts]—the best couples in the world who really are satisfied in their marriage—it’s almost like 2 Corinthians 10:5: “Take every thought captive…” It’s like, “I got to grab that thought before it lands, and I got to get it now; or it’s going to take us to a bad place.”
Is that what you do, Christian and Maddie? I mean, does this work for you guys?
Maddie: I think this is something we really struggled with just because of our own backgrounds. Maybe, this is why Bobby and Rebecca have been so impactful. Neither of us really saw that in our own homes: parents taking their thoughts captive. It really was just: whatever you feel, you say; and whatever emotion you have, you don’t temper it—you just kind of yell or—
Ann: So you both had that in your families?
Christian: Yeah; I definitely grew up in a house where everything was just an explosion at times whenever we had an emotion or feeling. I never really grew up learning how to control that and also channel it in the right way. If something’s bothering you, you yell. If something is annoying, you could hit it. My brother and I had fights all the time, just to resolve our issues; and argued with my mom. That’s how I grew up, and that’s all I knew. And every time she had issues as well, we’d all argue it out. It’s nothing to do on her [mom] or her fault; that’s probably how she grew up as well.
Yeah, it was definitely a hard changing of the gears, when we’re getting married, and starting to learn how—
Ann: —to control your tongue.
Christian: Exactly.
Maddie: Well, I remember saying: “I’m never going to do this when I get married; I’m never going to raise my voice. My kids are never going to see us fight.” It was like,
Day 1—
Ann: It’s crazy, isn’t it?
Maddie: Yeah; I didn’t realize how much work it really does take. It’s not an easy thing.
Dave:Have you been able to boss your feelings? Have you been able to—
Ann: Are you learning to—
Dave: —change that?
Maddie: Yeah, it took us a while to figure out. I don’t think we had the language for that yet. It really was just [that] we gave into every feeling we had. And then, as we got mentors—and even here, working at FamilyLife—learned that your feelings aren’t fact. And the Lord does actually want you to be “slow to anger and slow to speak” and to control how you speak to your spouse, speaking life into them instead of speaking death. That’s been something we still really are struggling with. We’re still learning, but it’s becoming easier.
Ann: Let ask you all this—maybe, Rebecca: maybe, you’ve done this—I didn’t want to go to the Lord with all that I was feeling in my thoughts about Dave, because I thought He’d temper it. You guys, I just wanted to let Him fly; I wanted to let Him loose and just go there to build my case.
But I found that, whenever I would go to the Lord, and start complaining about Dave, I couldn’t do it! I felt like He was always sticking up for him, or He’d allow me to see something—
Dave: Thank You, Jesus.
Ann: —great. I remember, one time, I’m just folding clothes—and I’m going through all the things—I have my list, like: “Lord, can You believe that he did this?” and “He does this,” and “Can You believe the way he…” I had this feeling that came through my mind, and the thought was, “What would it be like if you prayed for him as much as you complained about him?” It was like this dagger in me, just like, “You’re no fun, Jesus! It’s no fun!”
Have you found that Rebecca, that when you go before God, it kind of puts a halt to some of that?
Rebecca: Yeah, and I don’t think I’ve been very quick to do that. Shaunti had put in the description. There were times where because I would consider myself, and we joke about this in our marriage group, that I’m like a mushy-gushy kind of person. I have a very tender heart.
Ann: You do; it’s beautiful
.
Rebecca: So whenever I got married to Bobby, I was thinking, “Oh, well it’s just going to be a mushy-gushy kind of thing.”
Ann: Beautiful.
Rebecca: Yeah, puppies and rainbows; and it’s just going to be awesome all the time. I knew that he was a man of God: “It’s going to be this fantastic, marvelous thing, where we just feel mushy-gushy together all the time.” And it wasn’t that way. God made us two very different people; and there was a time, where I didn’t feel like he and I could communicate very well. I didn’t feel like I could share all of my mushy-gushiness, and it be received; we couldn’t communicate on that level as well.
And one thing—whenever I went to the Lord, and I would just pour out all of those multitudes of feelings—God had led me to start writing notes for him every morning and putting them in his lunch. I could kind of put Scripture to certain things; and then, also share my feelings; but it wasn’t like all mush-gush all in his face. It was just like being able to put something on a slip of paper; and then, including it in his lunch to try to encourage him through the day.
Ann: Give us an example of one of those notes.
Rebecca: Oh, goodness.
Ann: Bobby, you might.
Dave: Bobby, do you remember one?
Bobby: I still have all of them.
Dave: All of them?
Bobby: This was early in our marriage.
Ann: He is mushy-gushy!
Bobby: Yeah, I just have a hard time receiving it at first. It’s like it feels overwhelming, with my personality; but it was so special, because she was super disciplined to have a little note in my lunch every single day. I’d go on a mission trip; and in advance, she would have a letter for every day of my mission trip to open each day. It always warmed my heart, at the right time; and it gave me God’s Word and just little thoughts of sweetness that she felt towards me—that maybe, she didn’t feel as confident saying to me; because of how I might react or not reciprocate her feelings back towards her in that time—and that was early in our marriage too.
I think a lot has changed since then in how we view each other and we’ll speak towards each other. She still gets really mushy now; and I still have those deer-in-the-headlight moments, when she starts bringing it on.
Ann: Do you feel like, “I don’t know what to do with this”?
Bobby: Yeah; sometimes, I don’t know what to do; I kind of lock up in the moment. I lock up in the moment, and she expresses her way in words a lot.
Dave:Rebecca, do you feel like doing that was a little bit like what Jeff said? Did it sort of change your feelings, because you’re writing down positives?
Rebecca: Yes, because I needed to be able to get out what I was feeling inside just because I felt like I have all these feelings bubbling up inside and I wanted to share them, but I couldn’t share them in the way that was more natural for me. So whenever I went to the Lord, and I would talk to Him about it, it was like He gave me more of an avenue to share what was inside of me. It not feel like it was just so strong,—
Ann: —overwhelming,
Rebecca: —overwhelming; I was bubbling over into his space so much.
Ann: What a sweet gift of God to give you that idea.
Dave:Here’s the thought I had. I’m guessing—you tell me if I’m even right; I could be completely wrong—there’s a listener whose thought goes this way: “If my husband” or “If my wife would do that, then I would love them. I would feel drawn to them, like, ‘Wow! Rebecca, that’s amazing. Bobby—of course, he loves her—look at what she does.’” I think, often, when we hear those kind of stories, instead of going, “I should do that”; we go, “Why doesn’t my spouse?”
Ann: —or “If you knew who I was married to, you wouldn’t be writing those notes.”
Dave:And I want to say to you: “If you’re thinking that, that’s a natural thought; I get it.” But I would say: “Do it—you do it—flip it on its head; say, ‘Okay, they may never do that; but you know what? I’m going to start doing that.’”
Ann: Yeah: “Boss my feelings.”
Dave:I think it would change the way you feel about them. Just say, “I’m going to initiate. Whether I get any reciprocation, I am going to initiate, and show love, and respect, and honor,”—whether it’s a note, or whatever it is, a text—man, what a beautiful thing to do.
Ann: We do it with other people. I was with our grandkids. This one little grandson—he’s the best; but man, he was a handful that day—and I was so bothered by it. But when he went to bed, I said all the good things about him to him: “This is who you are…” “This is who you’re going to be…”; I went totally contrary to my emotions. We can do it with people—we do it at work; we do it on our jobs—we might be really bugged or bothered by our boss; but we, generally, don’t say those things.
Dave:What would you say—and we’re sort of toward the end here, so one of you can respond—but if [someone’s] thinking, “Okay, I don’t feel it, and I’m sort of stuck; and you’re telling me to boss and change my feelings,” What would you say to somebody who is asking you: “How do I do that? I want to, but I can’t; I’m just stuck.” What comes to your mind? What should they do?
Christian: I think it first starts with little things—very little things—and start with what you’re given at the moment; just take a step forward. I was talking with Maddie about this—and we’re always moving—so if we’re moving towards oneness, we’re going in a direction that’s going to be closer together in the long-run—whether that’s saying: “I love you,” “I hope you have a great day,” “You’re very important to me; I just want you to know that,”—that alone can just make it one step closer to oneness with each other. And that alone, I feel creates a very strong marriage and just building that stronger foundation for when the tough times do come.
Maddie: If my thought process is: “Marriage is based on my feelings,” then you’re in the wrong spot; because marriage is very much a choice, and that is in your vows: “I’m going to be with you for better or for worse,”—not: “I’m going to be with you when we’re in the good times,”—”I’m going to be with you when it’s hard, and when I don’t feel it, or when I think you don’t deserve my love; I’m going to do it anyway, because that’s what the Lord does for us. He died for us when we were still in sin, and He knows we’re going to mess up again; but He didn’t let that temper His action or Him going to that cross. And in the same way, that’s why marriage is the picture of the Lord’s love for us. This is how you know the Lord deeper, and you love Him deeper, and you can honor Him in dying to yourself and dying to your feelings. Yeah, laying down your life for your spouse.”
Ann: That’s wisdom from a woman in her 20s.
Christian: Amen.
Maddie: Only I have the best people around to learn from.
Ann: That’s really good.
Dave:How about from a couple in their 25th year marriage, five kids in the home, and parents; so you’ve got a house-full.
Ann: Yes, a house-full; nine people living in your home.
Bobby: There’s nine of us.
Dave: Nine in there. Any thoughts?
Rebecca: I’ve learned that my feelings cannot dictate reality; because no matter what I’m thinking or feeling—whether it’s a mushy-gushy, bubbly-feeling, or whether it’s really hard—if I’m facing something hard, Bobby and I are not getting along. Something is going on that’s hard in our home, with the kids or whatever, being able to realize my feelings are not reality. The Lord can, whenever we’re leaning on Him and asking Him to empty us and fill us with His Spirit, then He can guide us through what is really reality: what’s really going on in front of us.
Bobby: I realized that, in our relationship—and not just in the big moments that define shifting points in our marriage—our marriage was in a rough place for many years; and then, it shifted into a sweet place. But even in the day to day—the simple little things like, “Is the toilet seat staying up or down?”—and we have an argument about it in Year 25; and we’re having an argument about it—and it’s, literally, the little death and resurrection that has to take place in those little things in our relationship. I start moving forward.
As Christian was saying earlier, it’s like a car can turn a whole lot easier if it’s moving—moving forward and starting to act out—the very thing that I don’t necessarily want to deal with, in the middle of the night all the time, and make sure it’s down for her. If she happens to come in the middle of the night, but I start practicing it and doing it against my initial feelings of it, then it becomes a habit; and then, it becomes like, “I’m happy to.”
Ann: You guys modeling what mentoring looks like is essential.
As you’re listening, I’m going to ask you: “Are you mentoring someone? If you’ve been married a while, you might not have a perfect marriage; but man, you’ve learned a lot.” And also: “Do you have a mentor couple?” If you’re married less than ten years, five years, two years, it’s essential that you have some other people who have been there; done that.
And I’m going to add this, too: “If you need prayer for your marriage, reach out to us. We, at FamilyLife, will pray for you. We will pray for your marriage.
Dave:We have a prayer team, and they will pray for you by name.
Ann: Just go to FamilyLife.com/PrayForMe.
Dave:Well, this is FamilyLife Today. We’re Dave and Ann Wilson, and you’ve been listening to a show, where we had a reaction to another show. We had these couples come in; and we just talked about: “What do you think about this show?” That show was called Married with Benefits; it’s on our Married with Benefits podcast. You can listen to the full episode of that show anywhere you listen to your podcasts; and it’s also on YouTube—FamilyLife YouTube—as well. The book we were talking about is a great book by our friend, Shaunti Feldhahn; it’s called The Surprising Secrets of Highly Happy Marriages: The Little Things that Make a Big Difference.
Ann: I love her stuff, and we love them as a couple. I think you, as a listener, are going to love reading this and appreciate all the wisdom they bring into marriage.
Dave:Yeah; you can get your copy, right now, at FamilyLifeToday.com; it’s in the show notes. Or you can give us a call at 800-358-6329. That’s 800-F as in Family, L as in Life, and then the word, TODAY. And I hope you give us a call; this book is really life-changing.
Another life-changing opportunity for you is to go to a marriage getaway, and ours is called the Weekend to Remember®. They’re all around the country; and right now, they’re half off.
Ann: And this is the last day to get this conference at half off the registration price.
Dave:Yeah, I don’t know what you’re going to do in the next couple minutes; but I’m telling you what to do. Alright, you listening?—I’m telling you what to do—“Today’s it; this is your last chance to get 50 percent off. You can’t think, ‘Oh, I’m going to do it tomorrow’; it’ll be gone tomorrow. Today’s your day. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com; sign up for the Weekend to Remember.” And by the way, you can pick any Weekend to Remember anywhere in the country. Maybe, it’s a chance to get out of your city and go away on a little destination weekend, with your spouse, and let God change your marriage. Again, FamilyLifeToday.com; sign up for the Weekend to Remember.
Ann: And we’ll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.
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