Fatherhood and Forgiveness: Brant Hansen

Episode Transcript

FamilyLife Today® with Dave and Ann Wilson – Web Version Transcript

This content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.

Fatherhood and Forgiveness

Guest:Brant Hansen

From the series:Fatherhood and Forgiveness (Day 1 of 2)

Air date:December 9, 2024

Dave:Hey, before we dive into today’s show, I want to take just a minute to talk about something we really consider important. We know you count on these broadcasts to bring encouragement and wisdom and, sometimes, a much needed reminder that God loves you right where you are. But the truth is: we can’t do this without your support. If FamilyLife has been a blessing to you, would you consider giving back this season to FamilyLife? Your gift, no matter what the size, helps us continue sharing God’s truth and hope with families everywhere.

Ann: What we do here, on FamilyLife, is only possible because of listeners like you. We’re in this season right now where your support is so critical.

Dave:It’s year-end time.

Ann: Every single gift you give allows us to reach so many more families with God’s love and Hs design for relationships. So if FamilyLife has impacted your life, here’s what we’re asking: “Will you please consider giving today?”—because it makes a huge difference. And you can do that, right now, by contacting us at FamilyLifeToday.com; or giving us a call at—

Dave:—800-358-6329; that’s 800-F as in Family, L as in Life, and the word, TODAY.

Brant:You do not have to repeat the mistakes of your parents. You are free to not be like them at all. That’s one redemptive thing in your life: that you don’t have to be like your mom; you don’t have to be like your dad.

Dave:Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Dave Wilson.

Ann: And I’m Ann Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

Dave:So often, when I talk to men—just men—and I want to talk about being a dad, I will ask the guys—and I’m going to ask you two—we got Ann, and we got Brant Hansen back with us. I want to ask you this question I ask these guys. It’s really interesting, in a room of 400 or 500 men, I’ll actually ask them to yell out what comes to their mind. I say, “When you think of your dad, what’s the first word that comes to your mind?” Do you have a word that comes to you?

Ann: Yeah, I’m going to start positive; how’s that? “Integrity”; and then, the second word would be “absent.” Even us, as parents, I’m sure our kids have a positive word; and we all have a not-so-positive word as well.

Brant:If we’re—

Ann: Our kids have told us the negative words.

Brant:So it’s a tough thing for me, because my dad has allowed me—he’s given me the green light, I should say, from his perspective—to let me talk about things. He’s alive, and I still honor him; and so I keep it pretty generic when I talk about it.

He was a pastor, and it was a very traumatic household. My brother and I were terrified. We grew up terrified because of violence and what we were afraid would happen to us or our mom. And our folks got divorced eventually. I wrote about this; so it’s out there, and he’s okay with it. There was infidelity in addition to just the kind of terror. They eventually remarried each other; and then, I was the ring bearer in their second wedding, which I didn’t want to happen.

Ann: You didn’t want them to remarry?

Brant:No, no, no, no; I wanted peace.

Dave: How old were you then?

Brant: Twelve/thirteen.

Ann: Oh, so not that old. Were you afraid for your mom?

Brant:Yeah, and she was just doing the best she could; I want to make sure I say that. She wanted the family to work, desperately; and she’s a preacher’s wife. She wanted it to be real; but they got divorced again, I think, a year after that.

Being a pastor, we had to watch him give sermons three times a week: it was Wednesday night, Sunday morning, Sunday night. And from everybody else’s perspective: he’s a talented, wonderful man of God; and then, from ours, it’s like we don’t even want to go home; it made us nervous.

I want to continue to honor him; at the same time, tell the truth that is our story, but not getting too granular about it. He’s very sorry—and so we love him, my brother and I—we are rooting for him. But yeah, that’s a big deal. I used to—honestly, I talked to a counselor about it fairly recently—I was like, “Why should this be such a big deal? Your childhood is a relatively short time, a relatively long time ago,”—at least, in my case.

Ann: Isn’t that crazy? And yet—

Brant:—and yet, right? So even middle-aged, where I am, “It’s still a thing; why?” He’s like, “Brant, don’t be so simplistic. That’s formative.” I want to dismiss it; because it’s like, “Come on; let’s get over that. Let’s not do this if it’s going to be a Freudian thing: ‘It’s all about your childhood,’—that kind of thing. But there is validity to that. That actually helped me to hear that: “No, that’s a legit thing. You can try to just brush it off, but it is formative.”

Fortunately, for somebody who’s a believer, the rest of your life is also formative. But it mattered, and it matters. So it’s really tough for me to, in one word: “It hurts.” I guess I have to use that word: “It hurts.”

Dave: Yeah.

Brant: I don’t know what it say. What did they say when you’re talking to a bunch of guys and you ask that question?

Dave:Well, it’s interesting. Most of the time, it goes this way—at first, it starts positive—I think, usually, it’s a Christian setting; and I think they want to honor their dad.

Ann: And say they want to honor; we all do.

Dave:And there are positive things they’re saying that are real.

And then, there’ll be one guy that’ll say something that like that: “It was hurtful,” or “Absent,” or “Abusive,” or “Demeaning.” And then, you can just feel—the rooms like—“Oh, we’re allowed to be honest?”

Brant:Yeah; “Here we go.”

Dave:There’s a little of both. Usually, when I do it, I’m saying that word that you’re thinking of is important. But there’s another word—that’s more important—“What are our sons or daughters going to say about us? And so we have a chance to shape that word.” That’s sort of the direction I’m going.

Ann: Well, wait; what?

Dave:But what you just said is so key—it’s like it is formative; it does stay with you—I’m in my 60s, and it’s still with me; and my dad’s been gone 20 years!

Ann: What would your word be?

Dave:It was mostly/it was: “Absent.” Our listeners have heard us say this; but just a couple years ago, we called my sister on just a random call. Ann’s loves to dive into anything that’s intimate: “Let’s get real.” Our family never talked. Dad left when I was seven, and left with his girlfriends. It was a broken home in the ‘60s, but we never talked about it; never!

The first time my dad came to visit Ann and me, as a married couple—I mean, we’ve been married just a month—Ann, after dinner, looks across the family room, says, “Hey, Dave,”—that’s his name; same as mine—”Hey Dave, we’ve never heard your side of the divorce. Tell us your side.” I kick her under the couch; I go: “No! You can’t ask that! We never talk about this. This is not allowed.” I thought, “He is going to be so angry that he is not going to respond.” He looks at her, and goes, “Nobody’s ever asked.” He wanted to talk about it, so we heard that other side.

We talked to my sister just last year. Ian said to her, “Hey, Pam, Dave doesn’t remember a lot; he was a little boy when the divorce happened. You were a teenage girl; talk about those days. Would you like to talk about that again?” I’m thinking, “She doesn’t want to talk about it.” She is like, “I’d love to talk about it.” All I know is I didn’t know half the story. There was abuse—I was beat; my brother was beat—things probably I blocked out. My older brother pulled my dad off me a lot—mostly, when he was drunk—because he wasn’t a happy drunk; he was a mean drunk. So all that to say, “That’s with you, in some ways, your whole life.”

Brant:And so that sounds like, “Well, where’s the redemptive arc here, guys? We have to package this in a better way; figure it all out.” There is redemptive stuff to it. But it is there—I mean, it is there—and it does shape you. I think the redemptive thing, and I love telling—especially, it’s women, too; it’s guys and women—“You do not have to repeat the mistakes of your parents. You are free to not be like them at all.”

I think it haunts you a little bit like, “Well, let’s see. I’m a Christian guy; I’m on stage a lot.” And my brother, too—my brother’s a pastor—and he’s an older brother, who has reminded me of things that have happened. I was like, “I don’t remember that.”

Dave: Really?

Brant:Yeah, very similar to you.

Ann: So you guys are both serving Jesus.

Brant:Yeah, professionally. Here I’m—a Christian radio person, or author, or whatever—so you’re like, “Will I be like him?” And the answer is in, because our kids are out of the house now; the answer was, “No. I am not; I was not.” When my kids came in—I mean, I remember this, coming home from school, walking home in the little towns that we were in. We moved about every nine months or year—

Ann: —because—

Brant:Find another church, where there was true appreciation, where everybody—you like adulation, sometimes—that’s a thing, right?

Dave:Oh, yeah.

Brant:But I remember coming home, and being like, “Oh, I kind of hope that car’s not out in front of the house so that we have peace in the house.” And then, when I saw it, a kick to the stomach; I go, “No.”

But when I came home [as a father], the kids would go to the door: “Dad!”—like—“Hooray, dad’s home.” They didn’t do that when they were teenagers; they were over that. But I tell you what they still have—was a sense of peace because Dad was there—they still felt. I was like: “So that’s one redemptive thing in your life: ‘You don’t have to be like your mom,’ ‘You don’t have to be like your dad.’” You can be similar in some ways—it’s tough not to because you look and sound—

Dave:And how did you break that cycle?

Brant:I just thank God for it. I was just so determined. I remember a crystalline moment when we were terrorized. I wouldn’t want to get too in depth, but my brother and I were screaming to get out of the house. It was a parsonage; and we needed to get out, we thought, or else we’re in big trouble. I remember reaching for the doorknob, but I was screaming and crying—I think I was 11 or so—and I had this moment: “Wait; when I’m a dad, this is not going to happen.” I remember actually thinking that; I could see my hand reaching for the doorknob of the living room to leave, to go outside, and just like: “This is going to end.”

Ann: —end with you. like, “This will not carry on in the next generation.”

Brant:“I’ll tell you what my kids are not going to do: it’s run, screaming for the door.” To be sure—so they’re out of the house now; we’re grandparents, which is wonderful—but it’s like: “That is different.”

So also, the disconnect between the Christian stage-stuff and what’s actually reality.

Ann: Yeah; did that affect your walk with God, or your view of God?

Brant:Yes, yes. Okay; so one thing, it’s done: I’m extremely skeptical of human nature, which has actually chased me back around to Christianity; because Jesus is the only One who makes any sense. Honestly, how do you deny human brokenness?—I’ve lived it. I know there are hypocrites in the world, because Jesus confronted them all. Nothing Jesus says doesn’t ring with reality with me: “None of you are good.” And He didn’t allow the play acting. So when people are like—even with me—if they’re like, “Oh, you’re such a great man of God!”—because they hear me on the air or something, or they read the book—and that’s wonderful, and I appreciate that—but you don’t know. We don’t know, so that’s why we’re not supposed to put people on pedestals; it’s not good for them. It’s easy to be charming on stage, and super Christian, or impressive; but those are stage skills.

Ann: What was your faith like, as a boy, when you’re under the roof with your dad? Did you believe in God? What were your thoughts about Him?

Brant:I was terrified by Jesus coming back, and I would go to hell if I didn’t become a Christian. They showed us those movies that freak everybody out. I don’t know if you remember.

Ann: Oh, yeah; what was that one called?

Brant:A Thief in the Night.

Dave:A Thief in the Night.

Brant:Yeah; I mean, that’s another formative thing that sticks in your head.

Ann: Our kids say the same thing; it terrorized them.

Brant:Yeah, terrorizing. So that was a thing.

What had to happen though, later on, was for me to reset: “What do I actually believe?” And then, finding the alternatives to Jesus don’t work; and I don’t believe they work. Nobody else acknowledges sin and actually does something about it. Again, He’s the only One who makes any sense. When He talks about human nature—the biblical idea about human nature—that jives with me; that seems about right.

Ann: You’ve seen it; you’ve experienced it.

Brant:“What’s the alternative here? What’s better than Him? He’s so appealing, and He calls out all that hypocrisy.”

The other redemptive thing about this is, when I do talk on the air about Jesus—and I do a lot—it creeps me out if I ever say something that I don’t actually think.

Ann: You can’t fake it; you’re saying.

Brant: I don’t want to fake it. I think, “If my wife was listening, I would hate for her to go, ‘Yeah; but the real Brant would never say it,”—I don’t want that disconnect.

It was very gratifying to me, as the kids were growing up—and even now, say my daughter/some [of them] will listen to my podcast—and then, tell me the next day: “Oh, that was so funny when you said that one thing.” There’s no: “Oh, yeah; there’s spotlight Dad.” It should be the same guy. So that’s another redemptive thing.

And the upshot of that has been, I think people can tell that.

Ann: Totally.

Brant: So when I’m talking on the air—and I haven’t got this all figured out—but I’m talking about Jesus; I think they can tell, “Oh, my; this guy’s not just jabbering.” That has actually helped our radio thing; we’re on a couple hundred stations. I think the show sounds very different because you can tell, “Oh, my; this guy actually—

Ann: “This is real.”

Brant:—and “He’s intense about it; he believes what he’s saying.” I think that cuts through.

Dave:Yeah; I’m sure you’re familiar with Exodus 20—Ten Commandments—”the sins of the father will visit down to the third and fourth generation.” How did that work out in your own life? Did you sense that as you were growing up?—”Man, my dad’s sins are in me; and if I don’t do something, I’m going to become like him.”

Brant:I think so; I think you become aware of that. It’s interesting though; I didn’t know until, late in life, what his dad was like.

Ann: That’s what I was going to ask: “Where did this come from for him?”

Brant:Yeah; you can see where dysfunction would be in him—and maybe, I’m the fourth phase; I don’t even know—but you are aware of it. But I don’t think that Scripture means that we are doomed to be like them.

Dave: Right.

Ann: No.

Brant: That’s the wonderful thing. I love telling guys that: “Your whole life script with your wife and your kids can be the opposite. Where you didn’t learn good lessons—you learned bad ones—but you did learn. You did learn, and you can do that. What a wonderful opportunity that is! So that was a living nightmare—that first go-round—but now, this one actually goes on longer. This nuclear family that you’re in now, you get to set the tone for it.”

Ann: As a preacher, Dave has always said, “Your trials can make you bitter or better.” And we really have seen that over the years.

Dave, you did see a part of your dad in you.

Dave What part?

Ann: When you were in college, you had that realization: “I am becoming my dad.”

Dave:Yeah; it was like—and maybe, you had the same thing, Brant—I grew up, even as a middle school kid: “I’ll never be like that man.” I despised it: it was like I saw him with women; I saw him couldn’t handle his alcohol; it was like, “I’m not going to become that guy.” I went through high school; and then, now college, I am on a mission to be a different man—and I couldn’t see it—I was becoming that guy. I mean, I was drinking; I was womanizing; I was the big man on campus.

Ann: You weren’t angry. If anything, you were more of a people pleaser; but your vice is—

Dave:Yeah; but I was following the sin pattern, and would’ve told you, “Never is it going to happen,” until I looked in the mirror one day. One of my teammates is like, “Dude, you’re a little out of control.” I’m like, “No, I’m not!”

I didn’t know—Brant, I didn’t go to church—my mom took me, as a single mom; but once I got to college, I’m like, “I’m never going to church again. It is not true; it’s a bunch of fake people.” I didn’t even know the Bible said: “the sins of your father.” I had no idea that God had said [paraphrase]: “If you don’t stop this, it will—it’s natural—you’ll copy it.” And man, when I saw the Bible said that, I was like, “Okay;”—sort of what you said is—”here’s a book that describes the reality of the world—and my own personal experience; and not just mine, everybody I see—in a way that no other religion explains.” I sort of went on this journey.

Anyway, I knew, after I came to the Father through Christ, that I had a choice to make. And it was like visceral; when we got married, it was like, “I’m going to change the legacy. If I can do this, I’m going to do it.”

Brant:It is visceral.

Dave:And I’m guessing you had the same kind of thing.

Brant:It’s very similar; it’s this determination.

What a great story. I mean, your story’s not over; but you can already say, “We raised these kids, and that was not what my dad did”; you can say that.

What’s wild about that is, sometimes, people think, “Well, you need to honor your parents; you need to be like them. That’s what honoring means.” “No, no; sometimes, dishonoring them would be you being like them.” In an honor culture—typical, traditional culture—honoring is different than just saying, “Whatever they do, I’ll do it, too.” It’s like you can bring dishonor upon your family name or honor to your family. You can redeem it; you can bring honor to it, but you can honor your parents by being a totally different person than what they may have demonstrated.

Ann: What does your dad think of you and your brother now?

Brant:He says he’s proud of us. And so, yeah, we’re rooting for him. Everybody’s got their continuing struggles. A big part of this, though—and this is a big discussion—is I think forgiving that parent for real.

Ann: We’ll have to talk about that tomorrow.

Brant:Yeah; we have forgiven him. We can talk about that process. And the other thing I think that a lot of people need to do—again, I’m not a counselor; but just having hard-won lessons—is grieving.

Ann: Grieving that you didn’t have?

Brant:Yeah; that’s kind of it. And you don’t—especially guys—we’re like, “You don’t want to feel sorry for yourself. I’m not going to go, ‘Oh, boohoo, I didn’t get…’”; but that is sad!

Ann: It is sad.

Dave:What’d that look like for you? How’d you grieve it?

Brant:I think my wife’s helped me with that over time: a lot of talking about it and understanding. You look at other people’s dads or situations—families from the outside—I literally watched The Brady Bunch when I was a kid for that reason: “Look at that!” I mean, it’s just total goofball stuff; but you’re eight years old.

Ann: —even the Huxtables; remember them?

Brant:Absolutely!

Dave: Oh, yeah.

Ann: Like: “What a great dad.”

Brant:Yes; just like: “Can I be adopted by you, Mr. Cosby?” That’s how you felt back in the ‘80s.

But grieving that, to go: “So that didn’t happen,”—and then—“Here’s the life that I have,” and “Here’s how we’re going to be different.” I think that’s important, too; so that you’re not constantly living with that grinding grief or resentment.

Ann: I just talked to a young woman who said those very same things. She’s a mom now; she has three little kids. She’s become a believer; and she has seen some healthy Bible-living, Bible-believing families. And she said, “I have been so angry that I didn’t get that. I’m so sad that I will never have that, and my mom may never be what I had hoped or even apologize for what we didn’t have.”

I said that very same thing: “That’s something that you’re going to have to lament. I am so sorry. It’s like having a funeral for the childhood you didn’t get.”

Brant:Right; especially if you’re still hoping: “This person’s going to be somebody that they approve [of me].” And over, and over, and over, they’re not going to be that.

Ann: And now—she’s a grandma, or he’s a grandfather—and they still/you’re hoping that they could live up to this dream or expectation—which isn’t always good—and they don’t, so you’re still disappointed.

Brant:And that’s a bad way to live. I think that’s coming to terms with reality. That takes grieving sometimes, instead of being in denial. Part of that, though—for a lot of guys; in particular, for me as a man—is actually voicing that: “It’s tough.” Again, you want to just skip over all that; but I appreciate my wife’s willingness, over the years, to help me.

Everybody’s got stuff.

Ann: Everybody.

Brant:Everybody does; and so it’s not—like, again, “Oh, boohoo me,”—we can talk about her stuff; we can talk about everybody else’s stuff.

Dave: “Yeah, let’s talk about everybody else’s stuff.”

Brant: It’s a lot easier!

Ann: How do you even do that? I am thinking of wives or husbands, whose spouse won’t go there and talk about it; but you can see the fallout, like, “Oh, they’ve never dealt with it; and it’s seeping in areas and destroying the person you love.”

Brant:That would be a great question for my wife to field. But I do think we’re so isolated, in general, in this culture; but if you do have any kind of faith community at all—people you can talk to: counselors, good biblical counselors—obviously, huge help.

But other people—including what I hope is somebody listening to this program; and what you hope, too, is—they’re like, “Oh, I’m hearing people talk about this. So this is not that strange. I probably do need to process some of this stuff; I probably do need to grieve. I probably do need to forgive. I probably do need to stop trying to control people who aren’t going to be what they’ve never been. I mean, unless God intervenes in His way with them, I can’t do that.” So you hope that, just by talking about this stuff, it creates a space, especially for men, to be able to talk about it to anybody.

Dave:Yeah, and I know that everybody—you’ve already said it—has stuff; everybody. Even our kids—and they had perfect parents; who’s better than us?—but all three of our sons have sat with counselors. I guarantee a large part of that conversation was about, at least, about me.

Ann: Oh, me, too!

Dave:I mean, both of us. And we tried to do it as so much better than our parents did. We did everything we could; and we made mistakes; and we hurt them; and they’re carrying stuff; and that’s normal. But you’ve got to talk and process through.

Brant:Yeah, I just ask God for mercy on that stuff.

Dave:Yeah; me, too.

Brant:We didn’t do everything perfectly, but it was a lot better than it was the first go-round. I mean, there was a lot of laughter.

Dave:They don’t even know how much better.

Brant:A lot of peace. They have articulated that—our daughter: very sweet; a very intelligent woman—but she’s like, “I can’t even relate [to her dad’s experience].”

Ann: Isn’t that a sweet compliment?

Brant: I’m like, “Thank you!” Yes, it’s such a great compliment! “Thanks for saying that”; and of course, she could have a list of: “Well, I wish she wouldn’t have done that…”; but—

Dave:—“the sins of the father stopped.”

Brant:It stopped! That was a peaceful, laugh-filled home. So yeah; that’s good.

Dave:Well, I want to hear tomorrow about your journey to forgiveness. You’re the un-offendable guy; you wrote a book! Literally, you wrote the book, Unoffendable. I was offended by my dad and I had to go on a journey; I’m sure you had the same thing. And there’s some listeners going, “Okay, I’m not there yet. How do I get there?” That’d be an interesting conversation.

Ann: I think, too, I’ve watched our three sons hear Dave talking about his dad, hearing his life of what it was like. I’ve seen tears fall down their cheeks, of just saying, “Thank you; thank you for not passing that on to us. We will be better dads and men as a result of your decision that: ‘It will end here.’”

Brant:Good for them; and good for you.

Brant: Hey, my name is Brant Hansen. I’m an author, and a radio guy, and a big fan of this ministry. I’m a fan of what Dave and Ann do on FamilyLife, the way they honestly talk about things and the way they point to the kingdom of God. There’s not much in our culture like this; it’s such a refreshing thing.

I wanted to let you know, if you want to donate to support it, it would be wonderful. All this month your donation gets doubled, and that’s a huge thing to support this ministry. If you can’t, totally understand. But if you are in a place, where you could do that, thanks for locking arms with FamilyLife this month and making this incredibly important ministry happen; you will be making a difference.

Dave:I tell you what: we love Brant.

Ann: We love Brant Hansen.

Dave:We really do. And the fact that he loves us means the world to us. And if you want to make a donation, as Brant just said, here’s how you can do that—it’s pretty simple—go to FamilyLifeToday.com; you can make your donation there. If you’d rather give us a call; it’s 800-358-6329. It’s 800-F as in Family, L as in Life, and the word, TODAY. And let me tell you: we would really appreciate you jumping on and being a partner with us. As year-end comes, it’s a blessing to us; and we want to keep being a blessing to you.

Coming up tomorrow, we’ve got Brant Hansen back. You do not want to miss that. So we will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife®, a Cru® Ministry.

Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.

If you’ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?

Copyright © 2024 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.

www.FamilyLife.com