Healing What You Can’t Erase: Christopher Cook

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Healing What You Can’t Erase

Guest:Christopher Cook

From the series:Healing What You Can’t Erase (Day 3 of 3)

Air date:February 7, 2025

Christopher:It’s sort of like what comes first, the chicken or the egg? Because as we go through the process of transformation, our true identity in Him becomes clearer. But then in hearing our true identity in Him gives us the trust and willingness to be vulnerable to keep going in the transformation with Him.

Ann:Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Ann Wilson.

Dave:And I’m Dave Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

Ann:Okay, I’m going to give you a quote and you tell me who said it.

Dave:No, don’t do that.

Ann:Yeah, here it is.

Dave:I’m not—

Ann:Wait, wait.

Dave:I’m terrible with quotes.

Ann:What Jesus did for us is greater than what happened to us.

Dave:I know exactly who said that because he said it twice in the last two days, and it’s in his book. That would be our friend Christopher Cook sitting right across the table.

Ann:But isn’t it good?

Dave:You wrote it down.

Ann:I know I wrote it down because every time he says it, I’m like, “I need to memorize that.” Because all of us need to be reminded of that great truth. So Chris, thanks for sharing that and putting that in your book.

Christopher:I love you guys so much. This is fun. Thanks for having me again.

Ann:This is super fun.

Christopher:Yeah, it’s great.

Dave:Yeah. Well, Chris has been part of our church for over a decade, lives within ten minutes of our house, has a podcast called Win Today with Chris Cook. Christopher Cook, right?

Christopher:Yeah.

Dave:Yeah. So you go with the Christopher.

Christopher:My mom used to say, “I named you Christopher, not Chris.” So I’m like, “Okay, it’s on the book. It’s on the podcast, Mom.”

Ann:Yeah. Good job. Way to be a good son.

Christopher:That’s right.

Dave:Well, I mean, here’s a question for you, Christopher. I’ve always called you Chris, so it’s weird to call you Christopher, but if I would say to you, how do I heal what I can’t erase? That’s the title of your book. But I think that’s a question so many of us ask. Now, we’ve talked the last two days, really the journey of, how do you get healing? You would say better than anybody, you can’t heal yourself, right?

Christopher:You can’t. Healing What You Can’t Erase first recognizes that we all will experience things in life that will never be erased. The death of a family member, the death of a sister, the death of a mom, the divorce of parents. The adversities will hit us in life. We live in a fallen, broken world. But those experiences don’t have to define us. The seasons don’t have to write the story. Healing what you can’t erase is a daily journey. This is the journey of transformation, and it involves healing the broken spirit, confronting and dealing with the root shame narratives that we face in life, learning how to surrender well.

I think it was yesterday we talked about how surrender is not giving up. Rather it’s giving in to a process of confrontation that will lead to transformation. Healing what you can’t erase requires us to grieve. If I can say this as Christians, I don’t think we’re great at this.

Ann:Maybe we should talk about that a little bit because when—

Christopher:I honestly don’t.

Ann:—people talk about, I feel like lament and grieving, that’s been something that we’ve talked about quite a bit lately. So why don’t you think we grieve well?

Christopher:We don’t like the pain of entering the process of it. We’ve experienced pain in the loss, but to heal and to grieve requires us to enter the pain again.

Ann:And nobody wants to do that.

Christopher:No, because we are neurobiologically wired to avoid pain. And so here’s the thing. We don’t get over grief. We go through it. We have to go through it to heal. And that’s hard and costly. And what happens is we have been habituated in our Christian culture unintentionally to face adversity with platitudes. Let me make this—

Ann:God causes all things to work together for good.

Christopher:Let me make this legal. Job’s friends actually started, and they did things right at first. They wept. They sat with him. Then they opened their mouths. And we do this. Listen, nobody does this maliciously, but we just don’t know what to say. And what happens is we tack on the platitudes like “God must’ve needed her,” or “Too blessed to be stressed.” Or the guy that approached me three weeks after mom died, he said, “Well brother, He moves in mysterious ways.” And I looked at him and I said, “God didn’t say that. Bono said that.” He said, “Who?” I said, “Bono, the lead singer of U2.” We can make light of it but—

Ann:Because we don’t want people—it’s unpleasant and awkward when people are grieving. We don’t know what to do.

Christopher:We’re not good at actually, what’s called in counseling, attuning—

Ann:Yes.

Christopher:—and sitting with people, and looking people in the eye and saying, “I’m so sorry,” and then shutting up.

Now, think about this. Remember when Lazarus died. Mary and Martha are there. Jesus comes. Jesus is the only dude that could affect change in this situation, but he did not preach a sermon about how all things worked together for good. He wept. And I think we need to take His cue that what we need in adversity and in grief, in loss is presence over platitudes. Full stop, presence over platitudes a hundred percent of the time. I’m so sorry.

Dave:Well, I think it’s interesting too when we’re the one, like you said, you can’t go over grief, you got to go through it.

Christopher:Yeah.

Dave:When we’re struggling or we’re going through something, I think we also have a theology—

Christopher:Oh, Dave.

Dave:—that non-Christians don’t have that makes us want to fly over it.

Christopher:You got it.

Dave:The theologies, the old’s gone. I’m a new creature. Paul, Philippians 3, forgetting what lies behind or press on. So it’s like get over the past, he’s dead. It’s done. It’s over. And so we go there. And so if a Christian walks up and says, “I’m really struggling with…” something happened to me today or this year, we’re like, “Dude, what’s wrong with you brother? Forget what lies behind and press on.”

Christopher:And that had nothing to do with what Paul was talking about. He was talking about his reliance upon himself to achieve righteousness in his own strength. And we apply that to grief and it’s like, no.

Ann:Well, what’s the best thing you did in grieving for your mom?

Christopher:I allowed myself to feel all the feels and I was brutally honest with the Lord.

Ann:That’s so hard. Oh, so you were honest too.

Christopher:Yeah, I learned how to be really honest with Him and to get before Him and counseling and therapy and my pastor. My pastor would come and sit in my office. I worked at the church. This is before I was on the team with you guys. Such an incredible man and he would sit, and he said, “I’m just here.” He would never force anything or try to preach to me. He was just there, and his presence ministered life to me. I’m so thankful.

And grief is—sometimes we think that the grieving process is linear, but it’s not. It is like a wild river. It’s all over the place and we have to be willing to just be okay with that. I’ve heard it said that the first year of grieving, it’s just shock. But really the second year of grief is much harder because the awareness of the permanence of the loss is now present. And that was the case for me actually.

So it’s being patient for ourselves and giving ourselves patience, surrounding ourselves with good people, life-giving people. Some of my best friends didn’t need to say a word to me. They just were there. They fixed me a cup of tea. If I’m being totally honest, when you guys hired me at the church, I was just about to head into year three.

And I just remember some of my best nights. It’s like we had dinner at your house, or we’d hang out after midweek or whatever. That’s how I healed. We heal in community. Maybe that’s the point I want to nail. We don’t heal alone. We heal in community over time by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Ann:And letting people see us be raw and not have all the answers.

Christopher:For a personality such as mine who is wanting to perform my way to love—

Ann:Mine too.

Christopher:—it was so hard. I actually, because I was sort of a new hire at the church for a little bit, I was like, “I can’t let this part of me out yet. I just started here. I got to earn their trust.” It was, like all those things are natural.

Ann:But I remember when you started doing that, I remember having the feeling of, there you are.

Christopher:Oh, you told me that, Ann.

Ann:There you are.

Christopher:I remember that too.

Ann:I see you and I so appreciated you.

Christopher:It’s hard.

Ann:It felt like an honor when you opened up your life to us, it felt like you were giving us a piece of gold. And I think that’s what we’re afraid of; that if people see the rawness and maybe sometimes the ugliness of what we’re dealing with, we feel like I don’t want them to see my ugliness. But in my opinion, when somebody opens their life, whether they’re grieving or they’re just dealing with some of the junk they’ve gone through, it’s one of the ultimate honors because they’ve allowed us. It’s like letting us into the back closet.

Christopher:And you guys have stewarded that in my own life. I love you both so much and just trust you. And I’m so thankful because it actually in that place, our rapport, it’s stronger.

Ann:Exactly.

Christopher:It’s truly stronger, but for folks like me who actually have an innate root of rejection, it’s like I can’t let that out for fear of: “Here we go. I’m going to prophesy my future as a reject again.” And that’s too risky.

Dave:Let’s dive into that journey because when I think even of your title Healing What You Can’t Erase, it shapes our identity because what we can’t erase is either something we did that we feel horrible about or a really bad decision or something done to us that’s still in our memory. It’s still almost like a mark on us. And so we think that’s who we are whether it was five years old, ten years old. Now, I’m 30, 40, 50 years old, I’m still that kid—

Christopher:Say that again, yeah.

Dave:—that had that horrible thing done to me. So you talking as you walk through this journey about identity, who we are. So how did you discover you’re not what you can’t erase? That’s not who you are. It’s something that was done to you, but it’s not who you are.

Christopher:Yeah. I want to read this quote. There’s this psychologist author—here it is—David G. Benner and I wrote this in the book, receiving our true identity is the fruit of abiding, not striving. So Benner says this quote, “We do not find our true self by seeking it. Rather we find it by seeking God.” And that’s the point.

So to marry these concepts of healing what you can’t erase, it’s almost like this, Dave, in the level of vulnerability and my willingness to walk through the daily process of transformation with the Lord, in tandem I receive my new name, and it was the byproduct of transformation. And then it’s like this is who I call you. This is who I call you. I’ve given him these burdens and I’ve exchanged my ashes for beauty. I’ve exchanged my heavy downtrodden garment for a garment of praise.

That’s the exchange in Isaiah 61. I think that’s it. Identity is received, not conceived. We don’t create it. It’s the fruit of abiding, not striving. So me abiding in the presence of the Lord under the shadow of the Almighty, enabled me to hear Him clearly, and in community, you two specifically with other friends like Cody, and we’d have these times together. I heard my new name rather than name again, that he’s always called me.

I’ll never forget, it was January, I think it was 2017. That was a marked moment in my life because you walk through this process of transformation, you’re always asking, “Lord, I just want to be who you’ve created me to be.” And then the moment He says, “This is who I’ve called you to be,” that’s transformative.

So I found that healing what you can’t erase for folks in the process of transformation while exchanging, it is the exchange. We give him the stuff and he gives us his stuff.

Dave:Yeah, it is an interesting journey because it’s so easy to wear the clothes, the outer garment of our past, of our mistakes. I’ve shared many times on stage as a joke, but when I say it, people don’t think it’s a joke. I say, “Hey, I still hold one of the longest touchdown pass records in the state of Ohio high school playoff history.” And people are like, “Really?” And I say, I threw a 97-yard touchdown pass and everybody cheers. I honestly think “They really think I would come up here and brag,” but they all cheer.

And I go, “Yeah, stop cheering. It was an interception, and it lost the state championship.” And then I can feel the room goes from, “Oh, oh,” like that’s who you are. And it’s almost like they think that’s your identity. And it’s like, no, it was just a game. And yeah, it was a horrible moment in my life I wish I could take back, but it doesn’t define me. But you know what? Things like that in people’s lives have defined them. They’re 40, 50 years old and they can’t get past that day or that moment. And forget sports analogies; I’m talking a real tragedy in their life.

Christopher:You got it, Dave.

Dave:And they do not know who they are, and so they can’t heal.

Christopher:That’s good.

Dave:So identity, understanding who we are in Christ; that we are precious, we are His child, we are loved even with this past enables us—am I right—to actually get to healing. Because if we don’t understand who we are—

Christopher:So good, Dave.

Dave:—can we heal? I’m asking the expert.

Christopher:Okay, yeah; not fully.

Dave:Yeah.

Christopher:There’s going to be a cap very quickly, I think. It’s sort of like what comes first, the chicken or the egg? Because as we go through the process of transformation, our true identity in Him becomes clearer. But then in hearing our true identity in Him gives us the trust and willingness to be vulnerable to keep going in the transformation with Him.

I think for folks—let me read this quote. It’s from Charles Spurgeon. I wrote this in the book when I was talking about identity, and I think it’s so powerful. Charles Spurgeon says this quote, “The Lord’s people are dear for another’s sake. Such is the love which the Father bears to His only begotten, that for His sake He raises His lowly brethren from poverty and banishment, to courtly companionship, noble rank, and royal provision. Their deformity shall not rob them of their privileges.”

How many of us are deformed in soul? How many of us are bearing burdens we need not bear anymore? How many of us have been through adversity so much so that we are now bearing the scars of a very, very scary past and we think, “How could I ever enter the presence of the king with these tattered garments and with these scars?” And Spurgeon says this, “Lameness is no bar to sonship.” Full stop, oh. Not only does he say, “Yeah, bring them in.” He says, “I want you.”

Ann:It’s the prodigal.

Christopher:And we see the narrative all throughout scripture, both Old Testament and New Testament. And it’s stunning to me, you guys, because we all are Mephibosheth.

Dave:Uh oh, he said the name.

Ann:Oh, he said it. You said it really well too. Let’s talk about him.

Christopher:This is after Saul fell on his sword. We can read this in 1 and 2 Samuel. Jonathan, David’s best friend is killed as well. David takes rise to the throne. And let me back up and give you a little context.

So historically what happened when a new king would take reign, he would eliminate the former dynasty, kill them. So Mephibosheth, Jonathan’s son has a nurse, and the nurse gets word that David is going to take reign over the dynasty, over the kingdom, and she accidentally drops Mephibosheth. He becomes crippled in his feet. So he’s crippled his entire life. So David, we fast forward to the story. David rises to the throne, and he calls one of Saul’s old servants forth and he says, “Hey, is there anyone left in the dynasty?”

Ann:Well, also didn’t David and Jonathan have a covenant between one another?

Christopher:Oh, yeah.

Ann:That they were close.

Christopher:Exactly that.

Ann:And Jonathan had pledged like, “I will follow you.”

Christopher:Exactly that.

Ann:Yeah.

Christopher:Exactly that. And so I think the servant’s name was Ziba, if my memory serves me well. And he says, “Yeah, he has this son in Lo-debar.” Lo-debar means land of desolation. Pause; how many of us are living in a land of desolation, in self-protection, in isolation, crippled and lame in our souls, feeling like we have to self-protect and self-promote, just advance ourselves in life because life has told us that people are unsafe. And yet a king says, “Bring them here, bring them here.”

And Mephibosheth comes before the king and bows before him, and “I’m a dead dog.” And what ends up happening is the land is returned, the goods are returned to him, and Mephibosheth ends up sitting and dining at the king’s table as a son. I think scripture says it this way in fact. This is 2 Samuel chapter nine, around verse 13. “So Mephibosheth lived in Jerusalem, for he ate always at the king’s table. Now he was lame in both his feet.”

What’s the point? Though we are still lame, though we still bear scars, though we still have the experiences that will never be erased, we are invited to eat at the king’s table. It’s powerful.

Ann:Let’s get into the practicality of that.

Dave:Well, I was thinking, I don’t know where you’re going. I was thinking this really applies to marriage.

Ann:Well, that’s what I was going to say, and parenting.

Dave:I think because we don’t really heal or we don’t do the work, we marry the person that’s our healer. That’s how we choose them. This woman, this guy, he’s going to make me feel, and we’re dating, and I feel great, and I feel like I’m good now. I’m whole because she has made me whole. And then you get married and you’re disappointed because marriage is hard.

Christopher:Whoa.

Dave:And then you’re like, she’s the problem. He’s the problem. And the whole time is no. I’ve been the problem from the very beginning. I’ve never really healed. I don’t know my identity.

Christopher:Come on Dave.

Dave:I’m trying to get it from my marriage and marriage, it’s too weighty. It can’t carry that kind of weight.

Christopher:What did you used to say about Jerry McGuire?

Dave:Oh yeah; you complete me. And there was never a Jerry McGuire two because it doesn’t happen.

Christopher:Good point.

Dave:No spouse can complete you.

Ann:What Deborah Fileta would say, and she’s a good friend of yours too, Chris, is she would say, “Oh, those sore spots are actually God trying to get our attention to say, ‘I want to heal that.’” So in our marriage, if we have something that’s bothering us with our spouse or something in our marriage that’s just off, she would say, “Oh, that’s a sore spot. That’s a spot that God would like to come in and heal and he’s shouting at you in your pain, ‘I want to heal that.’”

Dave:I love the way she says it. I thought this could be a marriage book; Marriage is a Mirror. What she’s saying is your spouse is the mirror to show you your pain. And that’s what happens in a marriage. You blame your spouse for that, but it’s really a gift from God. It’s like she or he reveals back something to you and you’re like, “You got to deal with this.”

Christopher:Can I ask you guys a question then?

Dave:Yeah.

Christopher:I talked about this headline I saw yesterday in the USA Today and it said, “The United States of Anxiety.” If you were to biopsy the current dating scene in America today, would you as marriage experts conclude that many people today are making wounded decisions in their decision making when choosing a mate or looking for mate or even dating because of the things. I mean, I talked about even your first book.

Dave:One hundred percent.

Ann:We just talked to a group from Living Army, our son’s ministry of young adults, all single. And we said, the greatest gift that you can give yourself or your future spouse is dealing with all of the areas right now that are sore spots.

Dave:Your luggage.

Ann:Your luggage, and the pain and the trauma. They should read your book, Chris, because when you deal with that—

Christopher:Come on in.

Ann:—now you come in as a person that doesn’t have as much luggage or baggage, or you might have it, but you know how to deal with it. And so now you come into your marriage as a giver, not a taker, expecting your partner and your spouse to meet all of your needs and to make you happy. Because if you’re just longing to be happy, it’s so much better and deeper than what your expectations were.

Christopher:Jeremiah 2, scripture that you guys talk about, broken cisterns.

Dave:You’re searching to dig a well that only Jesus can fill, and it’s a broken cistern. Marriage is a broken cistern. I hate to say that because it’s wonderful and it’s awesome and we are talking to marriages, but anybody that’s honest will say, “Yeah, she didn’t do it,” “He didn’t do it. I thought they would.” There’s nothing wrong with your marriage. It’s the way marriage is, the way relationships are.

I mean, Paul David Tripp says, “If you’re unhappy in your marriage, it’s not because you have a bad marriage. It’s because you’re married.” People laugh when you say that. Like, no, he’s not being funny. He’s like, no, that’s normal.

Christopher:Flex that.

Dave:What he’s saying is that disappointment in any relationship—with your kids, with your spouse—is normal. But what we do, especially in this culture is we are an instant gratification culture. We usually get what we want. It’s pretty accessible. I mean, the benefits and joys that we get to live with every day is amazing.

And so when we get in our marriage and we’re disappointed, we don’t think this is life. We got to work at this and this is normal. We just got to work at it, and we got to find out how God wants us to do it. We think, “No, I married the wrong person. I shouldn’t be disappointed. People that really are happier are never disappointed.” Oh, yes, yes, they are. It’s part of life. And so together, if you can go vertical, you find out, oh, here’s living water. That’s where I find life. Now I come back to my marriage like, “Okay, we’re going to be disappointed, but let’s work on this. What do you need from me? How can I love you?”

Ann:But I think too, as we talk about identity in marriage, and Chris, you’re really good at speaking identity into people.

Christopher:Thanks.

Ann:You talk to people and share things of how you see God made them and the beauty of how God made them. And I think in our marriage and our relationships, we can do that. We can speak life and truth to each other instead of feeding the lies that are already circulating inside. So as we close, I’m thinking of all the parents and as parents in the culture raising kids today, we can be freaking out of what the culture is saying their identity is or where to find their identity. Chris, you’re super close to your nieces and nephew, so how would you speak life to your kids or speak identity and truth into who they are as people—

Christopher:Yes; I love this.

Ann:—not just their performance, because it’s easy to do the performance thing. Hey, you’re a great little whatever athlete, or you’re so good in school. How can we be better at that?

Dave:It’s funny, she’s asking this question because she’s the world’s greatest.

Christopher:I was thinking that she’s one of the greatest.

Ann:No, I want to hear what you guys both say.

Christopher:I’ll just tell you what I do with my sister and my brother-in-law’s kids, seven, five, and almost three at the time of this recording. I get down on their level and I look at them in the eye and I tell them who they are, I’m so proud of you. I told this to my seven-year-old nephew last week. “I’m so proud of the way you did this because I saw what’s in your heart and I believe in you so much.” On that level it’s super practical for me. It’s looking them in the eye so they can see my soul. I think that’s powerful. And also communicating to him and to them, the three of them, that Uncle Chris will always be here.

Ann:Like his security

Christopher:Yeah, for sure, and wanting to point them to their identity in Christ and wanting to bring the word to them. My mom raised Carmen, my sister, and me to be people who loved the word. I want to pass that on too. And so I’ll share that with the kids. “You know what the Bible says about that?” “No, what does it say?” And I’ll paraphrase it down to their language and teach them how to do it.

But for me, it’s real simple. It’s looking them in the eye and making that soul connection and then listening to them and listening for their feedback too. Because the kids are always going to respond. But if I can wait and sit on the floor in their presence and say, what do you think?

Dave:That’s good. And I would just add what you just said. Say it out loud to their face. Make sure they’ve got no distractions. Turn the TV’s off. There’s no phone in their hand, whatever it is, and I think use scripture with Ephesians 2:10. I think it’s such a powerful identity for you are God’s masterpiece. You’re a work of art.

Christopher:That’s right.

Dave:Created in Christ Jesus for good works, which he prepared beforehand. I mean, there’s so much there. This is who you are, and God’s got a plan for you based on how He made you. That’s awesome.

Again, Ann does this every day with our grandkids. She did it every day with our boys. But I think, think about this, if there’s a take home in your marriage, what if you spoke words like that to your spouse today? And if you’re a parent, what if you spoke words like that to your son or daughter today? I don’t care if they’re 30 years old or 3 years old. Don’t miss that moment. You talk about healing what you can’t erase, this is going to help prevent that because you’re speaking life into them as a young boy or girl.

Christopher:Oh, that’s so great.

Dave:It’s going to help them weather the storms when they get hurt because they will be hurt. That’s the nature of this world.

Christopher:What I hear you saying is wound heals better and quicker actually. Because if the infrastructure is there, you won’t have those insidious roots of shame that you’ve got to go in for a four-hour surgery and do. You’re like going in for outpatient now, and that thing is going to—

Ann:Pulling weeds.

Christopher:Yes. Right.

Ann:That’s good.

Christopher:That’s so good, Dave.

Dave:Chris, this has been awesome. I’m just going to tell our listeners, get this book Healing What You Can Erase. Send us a donation to FamilyLifeToday.com; we will send you this book as our thank you. Or give us a call 1-800-358-6329. That’s 800-“F” as in Family, “L” as in Life, and—

Ann:Today.

Dave:—the word “TODAY.”

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