Here, but Not Really: Fighting Emotional Absence in Marriage – Matt & Sarah Hammitt

Episode Transcript

FamilyLife Today® with Dave and Ann Wilson – Web Version Transcript

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Here, but Not Really

Guests:Matt and Sarah Hammitt

From the series:Fighting Emotional Absence in Marriage (Day 1 of 3)

Air date:February 11, 2026

Matt (00:04):

That’s when work and family tension started really coming into play more. It was: “Okay, now, she’s home, raising the kids; and my schedule’s not slowing down.” I just remember walking through the door, after a long couple weeks away. Sarah said the words that every husband really wants to hear: “We need to talk.”

Ann (00:34):

Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Ann Wilson.

Dave (00:41):

And I’m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

Ann (00:54):

Hey, you know what I’m excited about today?—that we’re going to talk about true love,—

Dave (00:59):

True love?

Ann (00:59):

—the kind that endures.

Dave (01:01):

You just surprised me: “Where’d that come from?”

Ann (01:04):

I’m just saying, “This is where we’re going today.” Who doesn’t want to hear that?!

Dave (01:08):

True love.

Ann (01:08):

But not just true love—like this romantic story—this is like true love that goes the distance—that has the highs, the lows—

Dave (01:17):

—gets in the mud.

Ann (01:18):

—from a famous couple.

Dave (01:20):

Matt and Sarah Hammitt are with us. They just rolled their eyes. If you’re watching it on YouTube, you saw that. If you’re listening to audio, you want to go to YouTube. What’s really funny is they are a famous couple because the lead singer for Sanctis Real for what?—ten years?—twenty years.

Matt: Twenty years

Dave: Twenty years!

Ann (01:36):

A Dove-award winner.

Matt: Yeah.

Ann: Whoo-hoo!

Dave (01:38):

Here’s what I was going to tell you. This is funny—she’s not going to like this—we had John Cooper on from Skillet—

Matt: Yeah.

Dave (01:44):

—a couple of years ago. Ann says to him, at the intro, “And you won four Grammys.” He goes, “No, I was nominated for four; I didn’t win any of them. Thanks for bringing that up.”

Matt (01:56):

Nominations are very common.

Sarah (01:57):

Matt has two nominations.

Dave: How did you get two nominations for Grammys?

Matt: But they didn’t sound good, you know.

Ann: —for a Grammy?

Dave: That’s big time.

Ann: Matt!

Sarah: No wins.

Ann: But still, that’s an accomplishment.

Matt: I’m grateful.

Dave (02:08):

Whoever won those Grammys, they didn’t deserve it; you did.

Ann (02:10):

Hey, let’s do a game with them.

Dave (02:12):

Alright; go for it.

Ann (02:13):

Okay. We’re going to do a couples game with you. Okay, Matt, I want you to swivel your chair and turn this way. Don’t look at Sarah. But Sarah, you can look at us.

Dave (02:25):

You can’t look in the window either, Matt. You can’t see her; you might have to close your eyes.

Ann (02:28):

Oh, yeah. Okay, so here we go. It’s Matt: “Describe, in detail, what Sarah is wearing today.”

Matt (02:38):

Oh, she’s wearing dark blue jeans, with a black shirt, a gray blazer. It’s gray—it’s speckled with white and black in it—but it’s gray-ish. And she’s wearing a necklace with two little rings on it and earrings that compliment them.

Ann (02:59):

Okay; well, let me go a little further—true or false?—is she currently wearing gold hoop earrings?

Matt (03:05):

I do believe so, yes.

Ann (03:07):

Ahh! True or false?—her nail polish is—does she have any nail polish on?

Matt (03:13):

Yes, she does. It would be kind of a cream color? I’m color deficient, actually—I have a thing with my eyes—I can’t see colors that way.

Ann (03:23):

Okay—true or false?—she is wearing nude lipstick.

Matt (03:26):

Boy, I wouldn’t know the color. She is wearing lipstick; I wouldn’t be able to tell you what color it was.

Ann (03:31):

This is unbelievable. Okay, you can turn back, Matt.

Sarah: An artist, you guys.

Dave: I was going to say, “He’s an artist!”

Sarah: I am more like the guy in the relationship.

Ann: I am blown away by this.

Dave (03:42):

Hey, Sarah, close your eyes. What’s Matt wearing?

Sarah (03:44):

That’s why, when you were doing that, I’m like, “I [don’t pay] attention to detail; he’s attention to detail.” He’s wearing—

Ann: He’s a creative.

Sarah: He’s wearing a cream shirt and black everywhere else.

Ann (03:54):

Yeah.

Matt: Same thing I wear every day!

Sarah: Yes, it is true.

Ann: That’s impressive. So do you—

Dave (04:01):

I don’t even know what Ann’s wearing right now. I’m really/I don’t think I could answer that question. You knew every part of it.

Matt (04:11):

It’s a blessing and a curse. I’m kind of a little OCD.

Sarah: Yes.

Ann (04:14):

That’s incredible.

Sarah: Yes!

Ann: Sarah, do you feel then that Matt sees you?—not only what you’re wearing outside.

Sarah (04:22):

Oh, I don’t know if I’ve thought about it from a positive angle—meaning the OCD—he sees every little crumb on the counter.

Ann: Oh, you do?

Sarah: Yeah; so he’s attention to all the details, which overwhelms his senses—which then—you know what I mean?

Matt (04:38):

—which I’ve learned to—

Sarah (04:39):

You’re right! It is a compliment that he would know what I’m wearing.

Ann: That’s incredible.

Dave (04:43):

Yeah; but it, sometimes, got to bug you.

Sarah (04:47):

I do get bothered.

Ann (04:51):

It’s confession time now!

Matt: Yeah, totally.

Dave: Okay; tell us—here’s the next question—”Your latest fight; you have a good one anytime recently?”

Sarah (04:56):

Whoo! I’ll let him speak to it.

Matt (05:00):

Okay, okay; alright. What’s the gracious way to say this? Was it recent?! Well, yeah; we had a fight this morning before we came here.

Sarah (05:07):

Pretty bad. We were parked outside, in the other neighborhood, chit-chatting about how to get in here.

Matt (05:11):

—trying to finish the conversation—”How are we going to wrap this up? How are we going to land the plane before we go over here?”

Dave: Really?

Matt: And this has happened every single time we’ve had to do anything together, marriage-related. We always have a fight before it happens—every time—no joke. We’ll be going, just coasting; I’m thinking, “Man, things are just so great this season! We haven’t had a fight in ‘x’ amount of time.” And then, it’s like, without fail—man, we’re getting ready to go do something like this; and it’s like—

Ann (05:35):

Why do you think?

Matt (05:37):

Well, I know why. I think—

Sarah: I think we have two different perspectives of what’s going on here.

Matt: That’s what’s hard! It’s hard from two different perspectives.

Sarah (05:45):

In my opinion,—

Ann (05:48):

We’re talking about love stories here. You guys have a great one.

Sarah: Okay, okay.

Ann: So this is a part of every love story is this part of it.

Matt: Oh, yeah.

Sarah (05:55):

And we do fight through; we repair. So even though, in this moment, we haven’t fully repaired that.

Dave: Do you want to keep going? We can counsel you.

Sarah: My opinion is Matt has a very highly-stressful life, where a lot of people are watching him. And for somebody, who’s OCD and anxious, that can make your wick short. You feel like—

Ann (06:20):

—overwhelmed.

Sarah (06:21):

Yeah, exactly. I think his disposition, whether he knows it or not, comes out. I start to feel scared; and so then, I start to react out of that. I could go further, but I’ll stop there. I think you’re being selfish.

Matt (06:42):

It started last night.

Ann: Welcome to real FamilyLife!

Matt: Yeah, it started last night. Obviously, I booked Sarah’s flights. I checked her in, and I got all the hotel ready.

Sarah: True; very true.

Matt: Checked into the hotel; I bought her clothes yesterday for options and put them on the bed for her in case she wanted.

Ann: Wait; what?!

Sarah (06:56):

It’s true.

Matt (06:57):

I went and I picked up things.

Dave: You did all that?!

Matt: I got the whole hotel room set. I put some snacks on top of her clothes, that I knew she liked. I saved my graham crackers—

Sarah: It was very nice.

Matt: —from the Southwest flights that, when she walked in the hotel room, she’d feel loved. I had this plan that I was going to take her back to the hotel, which was like five minutes away; and then, we would decide if we wanted to go eat somewhere.

(07:16) Right, as I got the car, before I picked her up, I couldn’t get the car plate to work on the screen. I had to hold the map in my hand, and there was not really many restaurants around. I was trying to text her on the plane about: “Hey, are you hungry? Where do you want to go? ” But her wi-fi wasn’t working, so I had no idea.

I pick her up, and I’m driving with one hand. I’ve got the map already set in the other hand—so both my hands—the highway, all the traffic; people are zipping around me.

Dave: This is Orlando, dude.

Matt: And she goes, “If you’re hungry, I don’t want to go back to the hotel. Let’s just go straight there.” I said, “But I don’t know where to go; because I planned that we just run back to the hotel; make a decision there.” She’s like, “Well, that’s silly. I don’t want to go back to the hotel.” I’m like, “But I have my map in my hand, and it’s four minutes away.”

Sarah (07:57):

And I’m finding other places, like, “Let’s not take the time; it’s 8:30. I don’t want to eat super late. Let’s just go! We don’t need to put the suitcases back; let’s just go!” So then,—

Ann (08:07):

One is a planner, and one is spontaneous.

Sarah (08:10):

Yes—and mind you—I had just been at home, tending to all our children, getting them all set.

Ann: —four kids.

Sarah: We both have all this super big stress.

Matt: Totally.

Sarah: I’m like, “I’m free! Let’s not stress. Let’s just bypass the hotel. Let’s go eat, so we can get back faster.” We just had different ideas.

Matt (08:27):

I was frustrated because I’m like, “Okay, can we just get to the hotel and decide?” It’s just like my brain was on that path.

Ann: Oh, yeah; you’re already there.

Sarah: It’s the OCD; this is what’s going to—

Matt: I was there; and she was just like, “Well, let’s find somewhere else.” I’m just like, “I don’t want to do that.” I missed my exit; I veered off the wrong way.

Sarah: And then, we went all the way to downtown Disney, of all places.

Matt: We went all the way to downtown Disney at like 9:30, driving.

Sarah: He just kept driving!

Ann: Oh, no!

Matt: Oh, man.

Dave (08:50):

Well, that would have been a good place to eat.

Sarah: And he hadn’t eaten all day, and he was starving.

Matt (08:51):

I do think—that probably, I thought I was being calm—but I probably wasn’t.

Sarah: No.

Matt: Because I hadn’t eaten anything. And she probably thought she was being calm when she said, “I don’t want to go to the hotel.” But to me, it came across as so—

Ann (09:04):

— like, “I don’t want to go!”

Matt (09:04):

“I don’t want to go to the hotel; that’s not an option!” I’m like, “I just don’t know what to do right now.” I think I felt helpless, in a way; does that make sense? I felt helpless, and I was hungry!

Sarah: So there you go! And then, it continued—we were fine—and then,—

Dave: Why are you fighting this morning, though?

Matt: Same kind of thing; it’s the same thing.

Sarah: I think he was very tender.

Matt: She wanted to sit down for a while; and I was like, “Well, can we just finish getting ready?—and then, go sit and have some coffee?” She’s like, “I don’t want us to have coffee; I want to sit down.”

Sarah (09:28):

In some ways, we have two girls in this relationship; because—

Matt: She’s like, “I want to sit down and relax.”

Sarah: —because he’s an artist, his feelings are hurt. He needed some repairs; and I’m just like, “Let’s just be happy and just go!”

Matt (09:38):

“Let’s just get ready and be happy.”

Sarah (09:40):

There’s two repairs.

Ann (09:43):

This is so common and normal.

Matt: So silly.

Ann: The part that he lays out the clothes and all that stuff, that’s pretty sweet!

Dave (09:51):

You just put every husband under the pile: “What? I’m supposed to lay out her clothes?”

Matt (09:55):

I can give you a list of all the things I do wrong; I’ll tell you.

Ann (09:57):

But Dave and I—

Matt (09:58):

I make up for it that way.

Ann (09:59):

—often get in these little tiffs right before we get up to speak.

Dave (10:06):

I don’t know “often” is the right word.

Ann (10:07):

Not as often anymore. I perceive it as—he gets super short and snappy, because he’s stressed—I take it personally.

Dave (10:17):

It’s usually right before we walk on stage.

Ann (10:18):

Right before; right before.

Dave (10:19):

I don’t know if you’re like that as a singer, but I’m like that as a preacher.

Matt (10:23):

Yeah, maybe not—well, I think leading up to, like I said—

Sarah: We’re going to travel; we’re going to—

Matt: —because we’re not really together. When you guys are speaking together, I’m usually speaking or singing on my own; so I don’t even have to deal with that. But yeah, the dynamic of coming into this, it was that. It was just like some of the nerves, some of the just trying to stay connected.

Ann (10:42):

There’s also spiritual warfare.

Matt (10:43):

Oh, for sure.

Sarah: I think that’s it, for sure. From the moment we scheduled this interview, it was sort of like it revved up a little bit.

Ann (10:49):

Did you hear that listeners? That means: “This is going to be good!”

Sarah (10:52):

Yeah.

Ann (10:52):

“This is going to be good.” It already has been good.

Dave: There’s somebody out there, going, “Okay, thank God I’m not alone.”

Ann: Yes!

Sarah (10:59):

I think, yeah; yeah.

Ann (11:01):

And that is the beauty of a love story. It’s the picture of God with His people.

Dave (11:07):

Yes. How long has this love story been going on?

Matt (11:10):

Twenty-four years.

Dave: Twenty-four?

Sarah: Yeah, 24 years; yeah.

Dave (11:13):

I didn’t know it was that long; you guys look so young.

Matt: It’d be 25 next July.

Ann (11:17):

So this book has been out a little bit, but tell us about it. Tell us what the title is and what made you write this.

Matt (11:26):

In about 2008, Sarah had been home for a little while with our kids after—because she toured with us—I guess I should really back it up to when I started the band, Sanctis Real, with my friends.

Sarah (11:40):

You were 16.

Matt (11:41):

We were 16 years old; we were an independent band for a while. Met Sarah when I was 19. By the time we were 21, we signed a record deal; and Sarah and I got married the same year in 2001.

Ann (11:52):

Wait; I need you to go back and tell us how you met her.

Matt (11:57):

Oh, yeah. I’ll tell you that.

Sarah: Oh, yeah; that’s right.

Ann: This is part that I like.

Dave: It’s like a glowing.

Ann: I know.

Dave: Yeah.

Matt: We were playing a music festival in Columbus, Ohio; we played early in the day. That night, Third Day was playing. I was sitting kind of up on the hill, looking down at the stage. I just saw her, on the outskirts of the crowd down there, just dancing, and laughing, and smiling. She had overalls on; bare feet. She looked so carefree. It really was kind of like: “OCD saw Carefree, and thought, ‘This woman completes me.’”

Sarah (12:29):

And that’s been the love story!

Matt (12:30):

I just thought she was beautiful. I was too anxious to talk to her that night—the story of my life—and got up the next morning to lead worship at a community-wide worship service. I didn’t know her parents and her grandmother’s church were all part of this gathering. They had invited her to come up, as well, to be with them. I get up there, on stage, to lead worship; and I look out, and I see her there the next morning. After I sang, I went and introduced myself to her; and pretty quickly fell in love.

Dave: Sarah, was it the same for you? Were you looking at him, like—

Sarah (13:07):

I actually was hoping he was looking at me at that big festival. I was trying to kind of get in his line of sight; because I was like, “Oh, he’s so cute!” He knew my brother; and the next day, I did not know he was going to perform at that thing. And he happened to be there. I had hoped he would come up to me, and he did.

Ann (13:26):

That’s a God-thing.

Matt (13:28):

Yeah; it is.

Dave (13:28):

How much longer before you were married?

Matt (13:31):

Almost two years. August/September is kind of when we started dating in 1999.

Ann (13:41):

And where was your career at that time? How were you guys doing with Sanctis Real?

Matt (13:44):

We were, at that time, we had artists like Audio Adrenaline, TobyMac—all the labels—Gotee Records, Toby had, which is actually funny; I’m an artist on now. He had looked at Sanctis Real. The Audio Ad guys were trying to get us to sign with their record label, Flicker, at the time. We ended up going with Sparrow Records. It was all kind of culminating around that same time I met her that we were going to get our—the thing you always dream of, at least in those days; nowadays, a lot of kids want to be independent, get famous on their own through social media—but back then, it was the record label, getting a record deal.

Ann (14:18):

Sarah, what did you think? You kind of had an idea of what your life could look like, maybe, with an artist?

Sarah (14:25):

Yeah, I’m so carefree; I didn’t think much about it.

Ann (14:27):

You never even thought about it.

Sarah (14:28):

My dream was always that I’d get married and have babies. It was like, “Okay; then, I’ll just support your dream; because I don’t have a particular passion that I need to go chase after. I’ll be the support, essentially.” We were very young! We even look back; we’re like, “Wow, we were young.” That’s almost too young, but we did it.

Matt: We did.

Ann (14:50):

You did it.

Dave: A lot of people think, “I got a record deal,”—you’re making all this money; and it’s just this glorious life of singing and being famous. It wasn’t that at all!

Matt (14:59):

No.

Sarah (15:00):

Poor for many, many years.

Matt (15:01):

Yeah. I write in the book even—at some of the seasons that people would have thought we’d been making a lot of money—I sell some pretty bold numbers.

Dave: Yeah, I read it.

Matt: Once you pay all the expenses, especially for bands—it’s a lot easier for solo artists, because they own everything; they own all their own merchandise and all that; a lot of the royalties go to them—but when you’re a band, you split everything four or five ways; you’re all paying. It’s just a lot. So we were poor for a lot of years, and it was hard.

Sarah (15:31):

—like happy and just feeling fulfilled. And I mean, outside of our conflict, yes, absolutely.

Ann (15:37):

Were you traveling with Matt?

Sarah (15:39):

For the first five years I traveled until I got pregnant with Emmy, year six—and then, I stayed—I was six months pregnant. We hadn’t gotten our tour bus yet; we hadn’t had a big song quite yet. I’m six months pregnant, in between the back row of a Ford van, and the back door bouncing around, on a sleeping bag, with him sleeping. I’m like,—

Ann (16:01):

Come on.

Sarah (16:01):

—”I should probably get off the road; this probably isn’t healthy for my baby.” So, at six months, I got off the road. And then, that was it. I would come out on the tour bus—once they got a tour bus, I could come out with the kids—and so that was nice.

Matt (16:16):

That’s when the tension, I think, of me trying to figure out: “How do I keep pursuing this dream, while I’m away from home?”—it was like we had that adventure together for the first four or five years.

(16:28) And then, I just felt like that’s when work and family tension started really coming into play more: “Okay, now she’s home, raising the kids; and my schedule’s not slowing down.” That really was the tension that the song, Lead Me, came out of.

I remember coming home, probably seven or eight years after we were on the road in probably about 2008. We were kind of in that point, where we were figuring out, “Okay, where are things going with this? Things are still growing, but are they growing fast enough for us to keep pursuing this dream?” I just remember walking through the door, after a long couple weeks away. Sarah said the words that every husband really wants to hear: “We need to talk.”

Dave: That’s when I run.

Matt (17:27):

And we did. In the cycle of conflict that we were in, it was really difficult for me, in that moment, to not feel defensive—that’s just like the nature of it, right?—”Oh, yeah; we need to talk. Well, yeah, we do need to talk! I got some things to say, too.” That’s how you feel, initially.

Ann (17:42):

Let’s hear the sides: Sarah, what was going on with you? How many kids did you have at the time?

Sarah (17:46):

I was going to say that we were on baby number two, so we had already had another child. Matt and I really like each other; we’re best friends; we’re very emotionally connected. When we’re good, we’re great! Our issue is conflict management—that’s really always only been our issue—is conflict management.

Dave (18:05):

That’s not a big deal.

Sarah (18:06):

No; no big deal.

Outside of conflict, everything’s perfect; we love each other. I just felt like, being in a band, it’s like it dictated everything. If the guys needed him on the road for 30 days—our salary didn’t change—but his schedule changed. It wasn’t like, “Okay, you’re going to go out and bust, do five more shows this month, and that is going to benefit of us how?” It didn’t; it would just be business. You know what I mean?

It was really hard to let him go all the time. And then, when he was home, I think he—like I said, we were really young when we got married—the more I reflect, I think we didn’t leave and cleave properly, maybe, in some ways. I think he would come home—maybe, with some expectations; and I would also have expectations—and then, we were just disappointed every time he came home.

Ann (19:07):

This Valentine’s Day, what if you skipped the roses?

Dave: Okay, that’s fine.

Ann: Well, maybe not. And you dove into conversations meant to draw you closer, the ones you were secretly too scared to have.

Dave (19:19):

Yeah, Marriage After Dark is FamilyLife’s newest podcast, where a real married couple talks openly about healthy, God-honoring intimacy. Yes, the stuff you never ask your pastor or your friends.

Ann (19:34):

For more, go to FamilyLife.com/MarriageAfterDark; because intimacy shouldn’t stay in the dark.

Ann: I’m thinking of our listeners—their spouse has a job—and it’s becoming overwhelming for either the husband or the wife.

Dave (19:56):

I mean, this is our marriage. I’m guessing a lot of marriages. I’m not on the road; but I’m gone a lot, and she’s really resentful.

Ann (20:03):

And even when you’re home, sometimes, you’re not present.

Dave (20:08):

I don’t know about you—she’s talking about me now—

Ann (20:10):

Yeah; I’m just thinking about all of us—with our spouses, and expectations, and the way that goes—it’s hard to know how to navigate that when you’re disappointed; when you feel like, “Wait, you’re not living out your end of the deal.”

Sarah (20:27):

I was resentful about his attitude when he would come home. It wasn’t that he was gone; I was fine with him being gone. I had a mom and a dad, and his parents were around; I had help. I didn’t like his attitude when he came home.

Dave (20:41):

What was it? What’s his attitude?

Sarah (20:43):

Like your disposition, meaning I didn’t like that you weren’t fully present, or you were frustrated, or you had anxiety, or you were carrying all these—

Matt (20:54):

Maybe, it wasn’t attitude; it wasn’t my attitude.

Sarah (20:56):

I’m sorry; maybe, that’s not the right word.

Dave (20:59):

Was he coming home, and his mind was still—

Sarah: Yes.

Matt (21:01):

I remember one of the main things she said to me, when she wanted to talk that day—and by the way, I will say, as much as we were in conflict in that moment, one of the miracles of this moment—that the song came out of—was that I think God really helped, in that moment, me to just be quiet and listen; and actually hear what she was saying to me. I do believe that God also gave her the grace, in that moment, to say it in a way that was really gracious; her tone was full of grace as well.

Ann (21:33):

Let’s hear what it sounded like.

Sarah (21:34):

When I say “attitude,” I mean his disposition. He came home with all the heavy weight of every person in his line who told him the saddest story they had.

Ann: Sure.

Sarah: The weight of carrying a huge band, and all of their family’s salaries, and insurance; and he’s got to make art that will sell albums. He had so much weight and pressure on his back. I understand he had a ton; but when he was home, I think he needed to escape, probably mentally; but then, he would escape from us. Does that make sense? And so—

Ann (22:14):

And your expectations: “You’re home; engage with us.”

Sarah (22:16):

Yes; and “You’re the leader of our ship, not me; I want you to take over now. You’re in charge; you be the boss.”

Ann: Is that what you said?

Sarah: I mean, I’ve always been kind of like—

Matt (22:26):

I remember her saying: “It’s like you’re here, but you’re not here. Thank you for providing for us,”—because we’re paying our bills at that time. Even though we didn’t have a ton of money, it was getting better. She’s like, “But I need you emotionally and spiritually to be present here and lead us in that way.”

Dave (22:43):

In some ways, it’s the longing of every wife’s heart.

I remember, one time, I walked in the door—and again, I’m not on the road like you—but I was very busy starting a church, and it’s growing. I remember our boys were little. I walked in the door—this was before cell phones—think about that; there was no distraction like a cell phone. It was just, [my] mind was still not there. I walk in the door; and Austin, our youngest, yells, “Daddy’s home!” Ann’s in the kitchen; she goes, “Yeah, he’s standing there; but he’s not home yet.”

Sarah (23:09):

Yeah, that type of vibe.

Dave (23:11):

And of course, the kid’s like, “What do you mean ‘he’s standing’?” I’m like, “I’m hearing what she’s saying.” And she was right!

Ann (23:16):

We’ll go back to—

Dave (23:17):

I probably wasn’t going to be there for maybe the whole day, even though I’m there.

Sarah (23:20):

And that’s exactly right. And it was constantly that; it was constantly that.

Ann (23:23):

And that’s really hard. As listeners, we are like, “We all get it,”—as both, men and women, can slip into that.

Matt and Sarah (23:31):

Yeah.

Dave (23:45):

Well, what a great day with Matt and Sarah.

Ann (23:46):

I just love these guys. I love how different they are. I love Sarah’s honesty and Matt’s honesty.

Dave (23:55):

Yeah. And the story we’ve been getting about their life is in Matt’s book, Lead Me. You can get it at FamilyLifeToday.com. Click on the show notes and go buy that book. I’m telling you what: it’s everybody’s story, because that tension of going from good intentions to action is a challenge for all of us. I’d encourage you to get it.

Ann (24:15):

We know life is full of challenges, and families today need biblical truth more than ever. Isn’t that true?

Dave (24:22):

That is true.

Ann (24:24):

As a FamilyLife Partner, your monthly gift helps bring the truth into homes every single day through podcasts, events, and resources.

Dave: So let’s make a lasting difference together. Become a Partner today; just go to FamilyLifeToday.com, and click the “Donate” button.

Dave (24:33):

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