How Can I Make a Relationship Last? Start Here – Bryan & Stephanie Carter

Episode Transcript

FamilyLife Today® with Dave and Ann Wilson – Web Version Transcript

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How Can I Make a Relationship Last? Start Here

Guests:Bryan and Stephanie Carter

From the series:Made to Last (Day 1 of 3)

Air date:March 23, 2026

Dave (00:04):

You got 30 seconds—I didn’t prep you for this—you have no idea what I’m going to ask you.

Ann (00:08):

Okay.

Dave (00:09):

A single girl comes up to you, says, “I’m getting married. I want to have the best marriage ever. Tell me what I need to do.” In 30 seconds, “Go!”

Ann (00:15):

I’d just say one thing: “You need to base—

Dave (00:17):

You can’t say what—

Ann: No, no!

Dave: No, you’re not allowed to say, “Jesus.”

Ann (00:20):

No, I’m going to say that: “You have to base it on the rock of Jesus, or it’s going to be really hard. And even with Jesus, it can still be hard.”

Dave (00:34):

Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Dave Wilson.

Ann (00:40):

And I’m Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

Dave (00:54):

We’ve got Bryan Carter, and his wife Stephanie, in the studio today. Welcome back to FamilyLife Today.

Bryan (01:00):

Thank you so much.

Dave (01:00):

What a lot of people may not know is you are on the FamilyLife Board.

Bryan (01:04):

Man, it’s been an honor to serve. I’ve been connected to FamilyLife for probably

20 years.

Dave (01:09):

Really? How did you get connected?

Bryan (01:10):

I met Dennis in 2002 at a mentoring conference. It was Crawford Loritts who had organized it. He had invited young pastors/young preachers. What happened, out of the conference, was every person there got a mentor. It just so happened there was a lot of gentlemen there. I was fortunate enough to get Dennis as my mentor for two years. It was Bryan Loritts, myself, and a couple other guys. Every month, we talked on the phone—and it was a mentoring call—and then, once a year, we had a gathering together. It was a joy to talk to Dennis once a month.

Ann (01:46):

Had you and Stephanie been married yet?

Bryan (01:48):

We were—

Stephanie: —2002, we had just had our first baby.

Ann: Oh, so it was perfect timing—

Bryan: About three or four years.

Ann: —for Dennis Rainey to come into the picture.

Bryan: Yes, new in ministry, new in marriage and family. We’ve been talking on the phone, once a month, for almost 20 years now.

Dave: You’re still talking?

Bryan: We’re still talking, 22 years. We have a call scheduled for tomorrow.

Ann (02:08):

That’s awesome.

Dave: Did you guys meet in high school? You told us earlier that Bryan was this amazing high school athlete. Were you just following him around the court, or what?

Stephanie (02:19):

No, we did not meet in high school. I went to the University of Oklahoma; he went to Oklahoma State.

Ann (02:24):

Were you rivals then? How did you meet?

Stephanie (02:26):

Oh, yeah; we were very rivals. We met through some mutual friends—we met at a Big Eight Conference on student leadership—they introduced us there. He seemed really not into me; so I kind of felt like, “Wait; I thought you were trying to meet me.”

Dave: Bryan, what was that?!

Bryan (02:41):

Well, I was just trying to make sure. They told me she was interested; I was just trying to make sure. I didn’t want to seem too overly aggressive. I just wanted to let things play itself out. I asked for her number a week or two later; I say, “Can I talk to you?”

Ann (02:55):

—a week or two later?

Bryan (02:57):

Well, I didn’t want to press: “No pressure.” But the first time we talked, we talked for two hours. We just kind of connected; it was like a natural connection. Sometime—maybe, a month later, or a few weeks later—we dated. We went on our first together to—where did we go play putt-putt?—was that the first game?

Stephanie (03:13):

I have to give this to Bryan; he had great conversation. I just don’t feel like young men, back then, did. When we tell this story, young women today will be like, “Yeah, it’s still the same; it’s still the same.”

Ann (03:25):

I was going to say, “Has it changed?!”

Stephanie (03:26):

Yeah, they’re like, “It’s still the same.” We just talked on the phone and had great conversation; and then, he planned this great date.

Now, I’m not going to lie: I think my mom had kind of scared me a little bit; she had watched too much Dateline. So when we’re going on our date—I mean OU is in Norman, Oklahoma; so everything pretty much a typical college town—when he said, “We’re going to the Olive Garden,” I was like, “Oh, okay; I know where that is in Norman.” When we drove past the Olive Garden, I was like, “Oh, my goodness.” This is before cell phones, and somebody could track you. I said, “I thought we were going to the Olive Garden.” He was like, “Yeah, we’re going to the Olive Garden in Oklahoma City. I thought we could just talk more.”

Dave (04:08):

How far is that?

Bryan (04:11):

Thirty minutes.

Stephanie: “Oh, that’s smooth.”

Dave: Oh, wow! That’s impressive.

Stephanie: So we go to the Olive Garden.

Dave (04:13):

That’s more impressive, in my mind, than putt-putt.

Stephanie (04:16):

Okay; putt-putt is coming, but that’s a part of it.

Bryan: It’s two parts.

Dave: Okay, okay.

Stephanie: it’s two parts. We go to dinner. The waitress, in the middle of dinner, comes out with a yellow roses to give to me.

Ann (04:28):

Wait! Wait a minute.

Dave: Wait; are you serious?

Bryan: I dropped by the restaurant before!

Ann: They’re fist-bumping right now.

Stephanie (04:35):

Yes; we had the yellow roses, which was really sweet. Then, he said, “I remember that you said you love to ice skate. Or we can go putt-putting; what would you like to do?” I was like, “We have something else to do?”—in my head, I was saying this. I was like, “Sure, we can go miniature golfing; that sounds great.”

Ann (04:51):

Did you think, “I’m going to beat you, because I’m such a good athlete”?

Stephanie: And I did.

Ann: You beat him?

Stephanie: I did beat him. He had a plan.

Bryan (04:57):

I had a plan; I had plan: whoever lost had to pay for the next date. So I set myself up to lose. I took the fall—I took the dive—so that I could get another date.

Dave (05:10):

Stephanie’s not buying that one. She beat you, fair and square.

Stephanie (05:13):

I beat him, fair and square.

Dave (05:14):

I have a feeling you still are.

Stephanie (05:15):

Yeah, dating him was really—he just was super, super sweet; just had never seen anything like that—just super romantic; great conversation.

Now, I will be honest: when I asked my friends about him, before I gave them my number, so he called me—I said, “Okay, so tell me something about him,”—they were like, “Well, he goes to Oklahoma State.” I was like, “Okay.” And they were like, “Oh, he’s in a fraternity.” “Okay.” And then, they’re like, “He’s the President of the Black Student Association at Oklahoma State.” I was like, “Okay.” And “Yeah, he’s a minister.” I was like, “Absolutely not.”

Ann: Wait a minute.

Stephanie: “Absolutely not!”

Ann: Why?

Dave (05:58):

Why are you asking, “Why?”; you were the same way. You said, “I will never, ever…”

Ann: That is true. I said, “I would never be a pastor’s wife, ever.”

Stephanie (06:06):

Exactly; I kept feeling like, “No.”

Ann (06:07):

Did you grow up in a Christian home?

Stephanie (06:08):

I did; I grew up in a Christian home.

Ann (06:10):

So you’re a believer.

Stephanie (06:11):

I’m a believer. The military—my mom had us so engaged in church because we moved every two to four years—that was our way to get connected to the community and get connected to meet other kids. Youth ministry—all that—I did it. But I kept feeling like, “No.” I guess because I would just see that pastor’s wife and she just looked like—

Ann: Me, too!

Stephanie: —“God, help me.”

Ann (06:34):

Yes!

Bryan, what was your family life? It sounds like you come from a really good family.

Bryan (06:38):

My dad was a pastor. I watched his transformation. I watched him going to church, off and on, to really becoming really committed; to ultimately, saying: “I want to be a minister,” “I want to be a pastor,” “I want to start a church.” He started church when I was ten. But he’s also a mechanic and kind of a craftsman. He takes these old buildings, and he remodels them; and he turns them into churches.

My middle school years are spent, after school, going to help him as he remodels this church into a facility. That was part of what we did—very involved in church, very engaged in church. As a young man, I felt a call on my life to do ministry—

Ann: At that age; super young.

Bryan: —like 15, 16, 17—I knew I wanted to be a pastor.

Now, mind you, I expected every pastor to be bi-vocational. My plan was to teach school, be a principal, and be a pastor—and just pull—I felt like that connected me to the community. I could do all of it together; it just felt like a natural fit. So even when I went off to college, I was a science and education major; because I felt like: “This will be the pathway, where I can serve people, connect with people, help people.”

Dave (07:43):

You’ll be Principal Carter.

Bryan (07:44):

Yeah! Listen, it all—

Dave: Isn’t that a movie?

Bryan: —principal, pastor together—it all goes together.

Ann: Oh, yeah.

Bryan: So it felt like a natural kind of move. Watching my dad—him and my mom together, learning how to treat a woman—all of those things kind of collided when I met her. I always knew I wanted to get married. We were dating sophomore year in college. I knew I needed a wife, and so I’m looking. When we meet, it just is this connection. Even when we first start meeting, we’re coming to church together. I’m driving [to her place]; she’s driving me to church.

It just is a connection there. I knew what I wanted: I wanted somebody to love the Lord; somebody who had goals and ambitions; somebody who was cute. All those things were part of what I was looking for. When I found her, I just said, “Man, God, this is really an answer my prayer. This is what I’ve been looking for.”

Ann (08:37):

Wait a minute; I need to get over the hump of: “What are you doing with—he wants to go into ministry and be a pastor—how did you get over that?”

Dave (08:44):

She’s asking, because she’s still not over it.

Stephanie (08:48):

Yeah; I don’t think you—as wives, you just never get—you’re always like, “Okay, this is 20 years, so how much more?”

(08:58) I think Bryan’s heart is what won me over; I could look past the ministry part. I was an education major—I was an elementary education major—he was middle school. We had these desires to teach. Like he said, we had never seen a full-service staffed pastor. It was: “This is what I do: ‘I teach’; and he had aspirations to be a principal. He was going to be a superintendent and that was going to be our life, and that was going to be our role. I really wasn’t thinking, “pastor’s wife.” I think the only time I would get really nervous about it is when his dad would talk about it. That would take me down. I remember his mom—his mom was very traditional, very traditional house—mine was the complete opposite.

Bryan (09:44):

My home church is a very small church, small family church. That’s the church that I grew up in; that’s where we met; that’s where we’re dating. Part of the transition is she’s thinking, “This is where”—I thought I was going to succeed in my dad—you’re talking about 20 to 30 people, small Oklahoma city.

Stephanie (10:00):

That’s on a good day.

Bryan (10:02):

You know, pastors count by threes.

Stephanie: It’s about 15, like a small group. It’s a small group; it’s a small group.

Dave: A small group; needs three more people.

Bryan: It’s a small, intimate family church; but he has a lot of outreach. In those kind of settings, it would’ve been hard for her to fit into this space.

Stephanie: I didn’t fit.

Bryan: It didn’t fit, and it was going to be a struggle; it really would’ve been.

Stephanie (10:29):

It already was a struggle.

Bryan: It was a struggle!

Ann: Because you’re strong; is that what you mean?

Stephanie: I was strong. And his dad would say things like, “So would you be up to taking piano lessons?”

Bryan: I don’t remember that now.

Stephanie (10:40):

Bryan, don’t do this. Don’t do this!

Then, y’all—my friends; I love my friends—I would plead with them. They could go out and kick it, all night long; and then, they’d get up and go to whatever the hot church was in Oklahoma City. I’d be like, “Hey, you guys want to go to church with me?” They’re like, “No.” I was like, “Please go to church with me!” They were like, “Okay, okay, okay; we’ll go to church with you.” They go; and one of my friends was like, “If anybody ever says that you don’t love Bryan, I’m going to be like, ‘She loves him a lot!’ ‘She loves him a lot!’”

Ann: Dave and I made this pact when we got married—I was only 19; Dave was 22—we came on staff with Athletes in Action with Cru. And then, a couple years later, we’re like, “Let’s go to seminary; we’re going to do this the rest of our lives.” I made a pact with him, like, “Alright, we’re going to go to seminary; but you are not going to become a pastor. This is our deal; this is our deal. Because if you’re going for that, I don’t think I’m into that.”

Dave (11:47):

She literally said, “I’m not doing that. I’ll do ministry, but not that kind of ministry.”

Ann (11:52):

Because I had expectations; I had a vision of what I thought a pastor’s wife was.

Dave (11:58):

Sort of what you saw.

Ann (12:00):

I wasn’t that; I’m like, ”They are going to hate me; and so, I can’t do that.” So you kind of get that.

Stephanie (12:03):

I so get it.

So what—Bryan is so vague right now—you remember that time [you] had to preach?

Bryan (12:13):

I had to preach in—

Dave (12:15):

—your dad’s church?

Bryan (12:16):

No, at another church. In African American context, sometimes, the pastor’s wife will sing before the preacher gets up to preach.

Ann (12:23):

It’s the pastor’s wife.

Bryan (12:24):

Yes.

Ann (12:25):

—or playing the piano?

Bryan (12:26):

Or, sometimes, both. They call her up to sing.

Stephanie (12:32):

I cannot sing.

Bryan (12:33):

That’s not her gift.

Dave: They called you up to sing just because you’re—

Ann (12:36):

—out of nowhere?

Stephane: —out of nowhere

Bryan (12:38):

—out of nowhere. She tried though; she tried.

Stephanie (12:40):

And then, in the small church, y’all, they even had the nerve to shade me or kind of tease me. Yes, they did, Bryan. Because they were like, “That’s not”—whatever—”That’s a worship song.” I was like, “You know what?”

Bryan (12:53):

But we made it! Needless to say, we made it through some seasons of testing, trying to find our roles.

Stephanie (13:01):

Oh, my goodness.

Bryan (13:02):

I was trying to find myself—she was trying to find hers—and the box really didn’t fit. So ultimately, what happens is we relocate to Texas. We move to the Dallas/Fort Worth area. It would’ve been hard, trying to navigate through all the dynamics: family, ministry, family church. It would’ve been challenging—not to say that—I think, in my mind, I wanted to. But I think we went through a few challenges there; and it felt like, “This is not going to work.”

We had a church meeting one Sunday, and it went really sour between me and my dad. It really was a moment, where I said, “This is not going to work”; and I really wanted it to. I had a vision of what could happen—I saw some things—but that conflict that we had, I don’t think I would’ve made it in ministry. I think it would have been hard in ministry; I think we’ve been hard on our marriage. Those tensions, ultimately, led to us relocating. We graduated together in May, and we moved to Texas the next month.

Ann (14:09):

—which sounds like: “This is God’s plan.”

Bryan: It was.

Stephanie (14:11):

It definitely was God’s plan. But I learned a valuable lesson during that season. My mom taught me how to pray. I’ll never forget the year before we got married—it was a true testing season—things were getting thrown at us, left and right. I’ll never forget—my mom was like, “Do you pray for Bryan?”—I was like, “I do.” And she was like, “How do you pray for him?” I was like, “Help him to realize that he…” She was like, “Stephanie, that is not how you pray for him.” She’s like, “You need to pray for the future husband he’s going to be; the future father; the future leader he’s going to be.”

Ann (14:46):

What did that sound like?

Stephanie (14:47):

I said, “It definitely didn’t sound like what I was doing before.” I would be like, “God, just whatever the plans You have for Bryan, I pray that You will just surround him with people who can pour into him. I pray for the future husband he’s going to be; how he will lead our family,”—and so on—”And I pray for the father he will be,”—just doing that prayer.

And then, my mom was like, “Have you told Bryan?” Because our biggest issue was we did not want to live where we were going to live: “Where are we going to live?”

Bryan (15:19):

“Where are we going to live?” We either stay in Oklahoma City, or we’re going to move.

Stephanie (15:21):

So that was huge.

Bryan (15:23):

—huge.

Stephanie (15:24):

That was our biggest thing. My mom was like, “Does he know that you don’t want to live here?” And I said, “Yes.” And she was like, “Oh, what am I asking? Of course, he knows you don’t want to live here; I know you’ve told him.” She’s like, “Have you prayed to God and asked Him about where He would have you to be?” And I said, “No.” And she was like, “Stephanie, I don’t want you to tell Bryan anymore about what you don’t want to do, or this or that. I need you to take that to God, and I need you to have faith in what God will have; and the plan that He has for y’all.” I kept feeling like, “No, but see God…” And she’s like, “God knows everything, and God is going to hear your prayer.” “But He doesn’t know his parents…” She’s like, “God knows, and I need you to leave it there with Him.” I said, “Alright!”

So I’m praying—this is probably in August—the church meeting that he talked about earlier, that happens in January. I haven’t said anything; I haven’t said anything else about it.

Ann: Look at you.

Stephanie: I took it to God; I left it there. When the church meeting happens, I’m kind of like, in my head, the sassiness in me wanted to be like, “No, this is what you want. This is why you want to stay here.”

Bryan (16:25):

Yeah, I was ready because I was so accustomed to some of the dynamics at work. You can manage them. But oftentimes, when you bring in someone that’s outside, it’s all like, “Wait a minute. How do we…What’s this?” We were trying to [stay]; but the conflict, and the differences—a lot of it was just differences—you have one generation colliding with another generation. It’s just a total opposite ways of view. And then, I’m young; and I’m probably a little bit arrogant. I’m thinking: “…my way,” “…my way,” “… my way.” I’m trying to change things at the church, probably, a bit too fast; or a bit too quickly, which is meeting with resistance. It just was a recipe for disaster.

Ann (17:06):

And probably creating tension between the relationship you had with your parents.

Bryan (17:10):

—my parents, especially, with my wife. So it is one of those things, where most young couples—and we’re not even married yet—but managing through your parents, your spouse/your fiancé—trying to navigate that can be hard sometimes. I’m like, “I’m caught in the middle, trying to make everybody happy.” It was a bit rocky.

Ron (17:36):

Hey, friends; Ron Deal here, Director of FamilyLife Blended. Did you know Blended & Blessed—the only worldwide livestream designed for couples and blended families—is free this year? Saturday, April 18, we’re going to be live in Oklahoma City. If you show up there, we’re going to charge you for lunch. But other than that, it is free to livestream. Churches can bring a group of couples together, and enjoy the day, absolutely free.

Gayla Grace is going to be with us; Davey and Kristi Blackburn; Cheryl Shumake’s going to be with us; Kathi Lipp; and Bryan Goins, our emcee. It’s going to be a wonderful day; I hope you can join us. Learn more and get the link in the show notes at FamilyLifeToday.com.

Dave (18:22):

Now, as you look back—here you are, 25 years later—and we haven’t even mentioned your book, Made to Last.

Ann: We’ll get to that; we’ll get to that tomorrow.

Dave: But it’s all about long-lasting relationships.

Do you think that start—prayer; I’m hearing, “leaving and cleaving”—how important would you say, now 25 years in, that is to building a relationship that’s made to last?

Stephanie (18:48):

Oh, I would say it’s crucial; it’s essential. I learned a valuable lesson. There was an issue where his dad did a sermon, and he talked about women and what they’re supposed to wear. At that time, as a college student, you had your stuff on a rotation. He had an issue with pants, never knew it was an issue with pants. I had my little pants suit on, that he had bought me. The day—it’s like he knew—

Dave (19:11):

Wait; his son had bought you the pantsuit; and his dad’s talking about it.

Bryan (19:14):

I did not know the rule; nobody knew the rules.

Stephanie: His dad does a sermon about pants. I’m like—again, the church is small; on this day, I may have been eight people—I’m the only one with pants. I just kept feeling like, “No, this is not going to work.”

To make a long story short, I leave the church. I basically—we almost end our engagement—because I just saw my life, and I kept feeling like, “I cannot do this.” To have a marriage made to last, or relationship made to last, you also have to compromise. But then, you also have to let go of yourself. My parents had raised me to be very strong and very independent. I remember crying, calling my parents to tell them about what happened. My dad was like, “Stephanie, you’re going to take that?” And then, my mom was like, “Stephanie, this is something you have to pray about. This is y’all’s first sign.” Because we had not had any major things in our relationship, while we were dating/in our engagement. This was the first true test.

I’ll never forget—I go to another church; in the church that everybody goes to in Oklahoma City—and I’m sitting there. There’s an older woman sitting next to me, and she sees my engagement ring. She goes, “Oh, where’s your husband?” And I was like, “Oh, I’m not married.” She was like, “Oh, where’s your finance?” I was like, “Oh, he goes to another church.” And she was like, “Well, baby, if you wear his ring, you need to be by his side.” I was like, “Well, see; you don’t understand.” “I don’t care; if you wear his ring, you need to be by his side.” That was so convicting to me. I remember going back to the church—going back—

Dave (20:52):

—with a dress on.

Stephanie (20:54):

Yeah.

Ann (20:55):

Good for you!

Stephanie (20:55):

—with a dress on.

Dave: So you went back?

Stephanie: I went back; it was very humbling. I’m very competitive—I’ve always played competitive sports together—I felt like I was losing and that his dad had won. It was a battle; it was a battle.

Bryan (21:09):

I think, when you talk about made-to-last couples and relationships, the last chapter in the book talks about resilience,—

Dave (21:18):

—suffering, and trials.

Bryan (21:19):

—suffering, and the trials. I think her commitment to me—her commitment to our relationship and being willing to face those challenges and obstacles—and us willing to face those challenges and obstacles together, I think are essential for any relationship.

I think, when things get hard—if people quit; if someone says: “I don’t want to dive in,” or “I’m not going to deal with that,”—I think that’s when we lose the strength of our relationships. It’s the challenges and the obstacles that we go through together that we face, side by side; that we fight, back to back, together with those instead of fighting each other. That then, allows us to build something that’s healthy, that’s strong, that’s reliable.

Now, looking back, 25 years later, those moments, and challenges, and tensions, and conflicts, could have really driven us apart. They both were painful, and they were hard. I hate some of the things she had to go through. As a man, I had to figure out how to love her, protect her, support her. I probably didn’t always do the best job. Well, I didn’t do the best job, early on, in marriage. But I had to learn through those lessons.

(22:22) She had to coach me, and I had to manage through them. But it’s that resilience; it’s that persevering; it’s relying on our faith, watching God work on our hearts and our souls, watching God mature us; because sometimes, in our own immaturity, we become selfish and self-centered. We don’t think about others. But now, looking back, I just can see God faithfully working through those moments—faithfully, working through those challenges: growing her, growing me—and really, giving us a peace about some of those things. Sometimes, you can’t change other people.

Ann (22:59):

—most of the time.

Bryan (22:59):

—most of the time. Most, you can’t. But you learn to have a peace, and you learn how to navigate through some things in a way that honors God; but also, protects your relationship.

Ann (23:25):

Well, that was a great conversation with Bryan and Stephanie Carter.

Dave (23:28):

Yeah, I loved having them on. And as we said, they’re on our FamilyLife Board. Actually, Bryan’s written a book that we talked about today; and you can get it. The book’s called Made to Last: 8 Principles to Build Long Lasting Relationships. And you can get it at the show notes at FamilyLifeToday.com. I tell you what—one of the best things we ever do for our marriage—it’s get away!—

Ann (23:52):

That’s true.

Dave (23:53):

—focus and work on our relationship. We don’t want to do it—it’s hard to get on the calendar—but when we do, we grow; and our marriage gets better.

Ann (24:03):

You know what, though? What really goes along well with that getaway is something that’s cheap or that’s on sale.

Dave (24:09):

Yeah, we’re talking about the Weekend to Remember, FamilyLife’s marriage getaway; it’s 40 percent off, right now, if you sign up. I tell you: “You don’t want to miss this deal. It’s a Friday night through Sunday morning. It’s literally life-changing and legacy-changing for your marriage.”

Ann (24:26):

And here are the sale dates: March 20 through the 30th; you can get that 40 percent off. So visit WeekendToRemember.com. There’s no promo code needed. Again, that’s WeekendToRemember.com to get that sale.

Dave (24:43):

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