How to Fight Better: Your Marriage-Conflict Survival Guide – Dave & Ashley Willis

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FamilyLife Today® with Dave and Ann Wilson – Web Version Transcript

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How to Fight Better: Your Marriage-Conflict Survival Guide

Guests:Dave and Ashley Willis

From the series:How to Fight Better: Your Marriage-Conflict Survival Guide

(Day 1 of 1)

Air date:February 10, 2026

Dave Willis (00:04):

If you’re approaching any disagreement like—one of you is going to win; one of you is going to lose—you both have lost. Because, in marriage, you’re on the same team; you’re in the same huddle; you’re going to win together or lose together. We had to really realize that: “This isn’t one of us winning; one of us losing. We need to find a way that both of us can win every time.”

Ann (00:26):

Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Ann Wilson.

Dave Wilson (00:32):

And I’m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

Dave: Every marriage/every family has something they bring in, and it’s called conflict. Every relationship, at some point, has confrontations and conflict; right?

Ashley (00:56):

Oh, yes.

Dave (00:56):

That’s why you’re here. You’re the experts on this.

Ann: We deemed you!

Ashley: We’ll do our best!

Dave (01:02):

We chose you out of everybody in the world.

Dave Willis: You two are our experts.

Ashley (01:05):

That’s right; we look to you.

Dave Willis (01:06):

We just learn from you guys; and then, we plagiarize what you say. We go out into the world, and we try to say it in a slightly different way.

Dave: We do the same thing.

Ann (01:14):

That’s right.

Dave and Ashley Willis, our friends, are here. We’re going to have a great conversation; because every couple needs to know: “What do we do when we’re in this rush?”

Dave (01:25):

Every couple has conflict; very few know how to resolve it.

Ann (01:27):

Exactly.

Dave (01:28):

One of the first things that we learned, and we didn’t learn until after our marriage—and we should have known this before—but you bring in a style/you bring in a pattern of how you do conflict into your marriage.

Dave Willis: Oh, sure.

Dave: What are yours?

Ashley (01:40):

Well, I kind of put Dave through the ringer, out of the gate. What’s so funny: Dave and I met in a communications class, because we both were communications majors.

Ann (01:49):

You guys have a lot of similarities.

Ashley (01:51):

We really do; we really do.

Dave Willis (01:53):

We’re basically the same person.

Ashley (01:55):

Oh, my goodness.

Dave Willis (01:56):

No, we have a lot of differences too. We have a lot in common, but there are a lot of differences.

Ashley (02:00):

There are a lot of differences.

We met in communications class; Dave’s a couple years ahead of me. We kind of were naive in thinking, “Oh, well, we have degrees in communication. We don’t need to pay attention in our premarital class on communication.” God just burst that bubble real fast; because very soon into our marriage, I realized that our dynamic wasn’t working. What I would do is play mind games with Dave. I was of the belief that, if he loved me enough, he would figure out my cues, and just know what I needed and wanted.

Dave: That always works.

Ashley: I did Jedi mind-things.

Ann: Dave’s face is weary.

Dave Willis: It was weary.

Ashley: It was horrible! I would do things.

Dave Willis: I blame Hallmark for this.

Ashley (02:35):

It was Hallmark; it was.

Dave Willis: Because, in all of the Hallmark movies, the girl falls in love with the sexy lumberjack from her hometown. And that guy always knows what she’s thinking; it’s like he just knows. And then, girls watch the Hallmark movies; and they’re like, “Well, Chad from the Hallmark movie would know what I’m thinking.”

Ashley (02:54):

Yes, I thought he would be like Chad. Dave would be very sweet and come to me. Let’s give an example: he would be like, “Hey, the guys are getting together to watch the game on Thursday night. Are we doing anything? Because I just wanted to check in with you to see if that’d be okay.”

I would just look at him; I would give him this weird look. I totally repent of this—but I would give you a weird look; and I’d be like, “Do what you want to do.”

Ann: It’s a kiss of death!

Ashley: It’s a test; it’s the kiss of death.

Dave Willis (03:23):

So I would; I would do what I wanted to do. I took it as an invitation.

Dave: She said it!

Ashley: I know!

Dave Willis: And it wasn’t an invitation; it was a test.

Ashley (03:30):

He’d come home from the game, and I’d be so mad.

Ann: He’s so happy; he had so much fun.

Ashley (03:35):

Yes.

Dave Willis: “Thank you, sweetie, for letting me go. That was great.”

Ann: Ashley, were you just cold?

Ashley (03:41):

Yes, I was totally cold. And then, eventually, of course—because he’s like, “What in the world is going on?”—we’d end up in kind of a little tiff. I would be like, “You went to the game!” And he’s like, “You said, ‘Do what you want to do.’—

Dave Willis (03:54):

Right. It was so confusing.

Ashley (03:55):

“And we didn’t have anything [on the schedule].” I’m like, “But you didn’t choose me.” It’s basically what I was saying without actually asking for anything I actually needed and wanted. We realized, very quickly, “We need to handle this differently.” I can’t use Jedi mind tricks on him. I need to actually say, “What I need from you…” and actually use words and not just have him play this guessing game all the time.

Dave (04:16):

Are you more of an avoider of conflict?

Ashley (04:19):

Oh, yes. Oh, my goodness; yes, to a fault. Really, looking back, I was that way in my own family. Really, the way my family often would handle conflict was the cold shoulder; and it was the punishing. That was just how it was. I just thought, “Well, this is what you do. The more somebody figures it out, the more they love you.” It’s just so silly.

Ann: You’re doomed to fail.

Dave Willis: I know.

Ashley: Exactly; exactly.

Dave Willis: I know.

Dave (04:45):

Now, what’d you bring in?

Dave Willis: I married into this family; and I’m just like, “I don’t know”; because I came from family where it was just everything was very literal. If you said you’re fine—it was all boys—there was no nuance.

Ann (04:58):

This is my family. We said whatever we thought.

Dave Willis (05:01):

“We already said it. I said I was fine; I’m fine.” I was so literal that she would say things like, “We need to mow the yard.”

Ashley: Yes, “We…”

Dave Willis: It would confuse me; and I would think, “How are we going to mow the yard? That’s a one-man job.” I thought: “Maybe, she wants us to do it together,” “Maybe, she wants us both to have one hand on the lawnmower and to have this bonding time.” So I would wait; I would just wait. The grass would get taller; and she would say, “Why isn’t the yard mowed?” I was like, “I thought we were going to do it.” And she said, “No, when I say we need to mow the yard, I mean you need to mow the yard.” I’m like, “Oh, okay; I got it!”

Ann: “Just say it!”

Ashley (05:45):

“Just tell me.”

Dave Willis (05:47):

Just saying that makes much more sense; but if you say “we,” I’m going to think you meant “we.”

Dave: —literal.

Dave Willis: I was that literal.

Ann (05:54):

And then, Dave, are you okay with bringing up something if it needs to be talked about?

Dave Willis (06:00):

Well, this is the problem.

Ashley: We had a lot!

Ann: That’s a bad way to start the sentence: “a lot.”

Ashley: We had a lot to work through.

Dave Willis: This is a problem, that early on, I would say both of us were avoiders. That’s not a great recipe for dealing with stuff; because both of us kind of got in this habit, where we just would try to avoid stuff that needed to be addressed. Neither one would take the lead. It would just come out in these passive/aggressive ways. Essentially, we both had the same unhealthy communication style when it came to conflict resolution, until it would just come to a head; and then, it was kind of emotionally-charged.

Over time, we’ve gotten a lot better about just being clear: addressing stuff before it becomes a big issue. We’ve gotten better with time; but early on, we were just bad at it.

Ashley (06:54):

Well, something I would do that was also just not being totally honest with you—and you trying to figure out things—I would tell Dave, [while] he would be ready to leave to go to work in the morning; I would be like, “Have a great day. And by the way, we need to talk later.” That’s what I would leave him with. And I would have this thing prepared—

Ann: Does that mean: “You’re in trouble”?

Ashley (07:13):

I mean, he didn’t know.

Dave Willis: It would ruin the day.

Ashley (07:14):

I wouldn’t even give a clue.

Dave Willis (07:15):

Like: “What?! We need to talk?”

Ann (07:17):

What did you mean by that?

Ashley: Sometimes, it would be good; sometimes, it would be not so good. We didn’t have cell phones to text—

Dave Willis: I just had to wait and see.

Ashley: —and give a hint—nothing.

Dave Willis (07:25):

“What could that possibly mean? Gee, we need to talk; we need to talk.”

Ashley (07:27):

Yes, and he would go all day—

Dave Willis (07:28):

—I’d think about it all day, sweating.

Dave: Yea; “What did I do?” “What did I say?”

Dave Willis: Sometimes, it was nothing; and sometimes, it was something. I said, “Just tell me. Give me time to process what it is going to be about.”

Ashley (07:41):

Then, we would get to the point where he’d finally come; and he would look sweaty and worried. We’d sit down and talk; and then, I would talk about something serious that had been really on my mind; and I’d bring it to him. And then, at the end of it, he would just look at me with this blank stare. I would be like, “Well, do you have anything to say about that? ” He’d be like, “I don’t know.” I’d be like, “Do you even care?” He’s like, “Of course, I care. I just need time to think about this.” And then, I would get really upset; because I’m like, “Well, you don’t even care!”

(08:11) He would walk away, and I would walk away; and it was just a mess. What I realized, though, is that I’m more of a verbal processor; and Dave is more of an internal processor. I just wasn’t giving him the time. First of all, I’m giving him this terrible buildup, and not a clue of what we actually need to talk about; so he could come up with something to say, and to really process it, and pray about it.

But also, when I would say something, I just didn’t realize that he needed time; because he’s not me. And even, just as a woman, I have more neurons for language and learning than a man does. We can go—that’s a real thing—it’s not intelligence; it’s just a wiring. That’s why most men need to take a minute to go on a walk and think about it, or go on a drive and think about it, or just have some little inkling about what it’s about.

(08:58) Once I realized that, we found a language to really bring out the best in each other. Nowadays, it looks like us saying—I don’t do the “We need to talk,”—I’ll be like, “Sweetie; hey, ‘x,’ ‘y,’ ‘z,’ happened. I really want to talk about that later. Can you be thinking about that?—because I want us to kind of come to some solution/resolution, whatever it is.” He’d be like, “Yes; sounds good.” We’d pick an actual time, and we would talk about it at that time. Now, if we couldn’t do it at that time, we would make sure that we set another time; so we don’t leave each other hanging.

Dave Willis (09:29):

Right. But I knew what it’s about. She was helping me play to my strengths, because—

Ann (09:33):

—you could process it.

Dave Willis (09:33):

Yes, I could process it. And then, just like StrengthsFinder stuff, strategy is like one that I enjoy. If I have a problem and have time, like adequate time to really think about strategic ways to meet that problem, then I feel like I can actually win here instead of just, all at once, being kind of thrown something; and having, in real time, to process it, and the emotion of it, and everything else.

It’s just helping your spouse win instead of—if you’re approaching any disagreement like it’s something one of you is going to win; one of you is going to lose—you both have lost. Because, in marriage, you’re on the same team; you’re in the same huddle; you’re going to win together or lose together. We had to really realize that: “This isn’t one of us winning; one of us losing. We need to find a way that both of us can win every time, and we want to help each other win. We want to help each other be at our best.” When we started taking that approach, we started winning.

Ann (10:27):

I like that; because we went through that same thing, where I’m a verbal processor. I’m sharing every single thing that’s going on in my head; I look at Dave, like, “So what do you think? What do you think about that? What do you feel?” There’s nothing. And I say the same thing, Ashley, like, “You feel anything?” He goes—“Ugh.”

Dave (10:48):

I didn’t know what I felt yet. I hadn’t been able to process it.

Ann (10:52):

To me, that felt like: “Well, then you’re not even listening,” or “You don’t care,” which isn’t fair at all! I had no idea of the processing thing; because the next day, he’d come in: he has all kinds of thoughts, all kinds of ideas.

Dave (11:06):

It usually it took me a night—

Dave Willis (11:07):

Yeah, me too.

Dave: —not always—but usually, it took me a while. I’d think and think; and then, I’d go back. But she’s a verbal processor—anything she thinks—and then, it’s just out.

And I’m also—I didn’t know I brought it in—but I brought into our marriage a fear of conflict. I grew up in a home with two alcoholic parents; dad had affairs; fights were ugly, and it ended in divorce.

Ann (11:35):

—and abusive.

Dave (11:35):

Again, I never processed this—as an eight-year-old, ten-year-old, fifteen-year-old—but my belief was: “Conflict’s bad. You avoid it because it ends like that.” I didn’t know I brought that in, and I bring it in. She’s like: “Let’s talk about this,” and “Let’s talk about that.” I’m like—I’m, literally, getting scared.

Dave Willis (11:53):

That’s PTSD from the trauma you went through.

Dave (11:55):

“What do you mean talk?!” I’m, literally, walking out of rooms, like, “This is what I do.” She came from a family—they just got it out—sort of like yours, Dave. It’s just like they talked about it. It was a journey for me to realize: “Conflict’s not bad. How you handle it determines bad or good.” I was just an avoider; and I had to learn, “No, you got to sit in the seat, roll up your sleeves, and learn how to communicate and talk.”

Ann (12:23):

This Valentine’s Day, what if you skipped the roses?

Dave Wilson (12:27):

Okay; that’s fine.

Ann (12:28):

Well, maybe, not—and you dove into conversations meant to draw you closer—the ones you were secretly too scared to have.

Dave Wilson (12:36):

Yeah; Marriage After Dark is FamilyLife’s newest podcast, where a real married couple talks openly about healthy, God-honoring intimacy. Yes, the stuff you never asked your pastor or your friends.

Ann (12:50):

For more, go to FamilyLife.com/MarriageAfterDark; because intimacy shouldn’t stay in the dark.

Ann: Let’s give couples some strategies or questions along the way. One of the questions would be: “How do we process?” “How do we deal with our anger?” “What do we do?”

What are the options?—like: “You shut down,” “You want to talk about it immediately,”—what are some other things people do?

Dave Willis (13:20):

Yeah; I think—

Ann: —yell.

Dave Willis: Yeah, yell. There’s ones that are just clearly unhealthy, when you just go in attack mode—you’re yelling; you’re cussing at each other; you’re just venting rage—that’s always out of bounds.

But then, a lot of it’s nuanced—it’s like personality-based:

You want to process it right then.

You want to take some time: go for a walk, think about it.

You want to sleep on it.

You want to have a specific time when you’re going to address it.

I think avoiding it all together is always bad; but then, there’s some nuance about different ways that can work, based on the personality of the two people involved.

Ashley (13:58):

I think there’s even a place, too, where it’s good to pause, and to really bring it to the Lord, and say: “God, is this just a problem inside me that I need to just bring to You and deal between God and me?” or “Do I need to actually address this with my spouse?” Because sometimes, it’s more of an internal issue.

I’ve really had to learn this; because my avoidant kind of conflict personality—which I do think is also like you, Dave—rooted in fear/fear of conflict and how it was handled, growing up. A lot of times, early in our relationship, every little thing I felt like I had to talk to Dave about it; because I was so scared that if we didn’t, it was never going to be resolved. I remember there was one time, along the way, that you were like, “Sweetie, not everything is an issue between us.” He’s like, “Some of this, I feel like, is insecurity in you.” You might have said it nicer than I just said it; but it was very delicate.

Ann (14:51):

That was pretty nice.

Ashley (14:52):

However he said it, it didn’t come off to me like he was trying to avoid whatever it was I was trying to address. But it made me take pause because, as he said that, I was like, “Oh, my goodness; you’re right. You’re right. Some of this is just my own insecurity.”

Working with people in the counseling space, they’ll often ask me: “Well, how do I know the difference?” I always tell them, and I’ve done this myself, is: “Take a week and journal about it. Journal about the thoughts that are swirling in your head. You will see a pattern of what you’re dealing with, and you’re going to see some things that are really more internal that are just a you-and-God issue. You’ll see some things that are actually relational that you need to address with your spouse.” But you don’t really know until you take a pause, and assess it, and really ask the Lord to reveal it.

Ann (15:34):

Ashley, I’m the same way; because I would bring everything up.

Dave: —everything.

Ann: It must have been extremely exhausting—our kids, too—“Mom, just chill it.”

I think that going to God, in prayer, and asking Him that—that’s brilliant to do—I would say, “Lord, if this is something between me and You, then let me know that. Let’s just us talk about it.” But if it keeps coming up with Dave, over and over: “I’m going to surrender this to You. I don’t need to bring it up if we can just figure it out. But if this keeps coming back up with Dave, then give me wisdom to know when to talk about it and how to talk about it.” And He’ll do that. Haven’t you found that He does that, over and over?

Ashley (16:15):

Yeah, yes. I love how you said “when”; because timing is everything. And this is something I learned the hard way; because I’m a night owl, and Dave is not. Dave’s really a midday-person. I didn’t know it existed until we got married, but some people really peak at 3:00.

Dave (16:28):

“He’s not good in the mornings; he’s not good at night. He’s good in the afternoon.”

Ann: “Midday, whew!”

Ashley (16:30):

He is midday.

Dave Willis (16:33):

“I got a 30-minute window, around 3:00 pm, where I’m ready to change the world”; but that’s about it.

Ashley (16:37):

He really is; he’s so thriving. But that’s—

Dave Willis (16:39):

I start low; I end low; there’s—

Ashley (16:42):

“So hit it in the middle.”

Dave Willis (16:43):

“Hit it in the middle,” yeah.

Ashley (16:44):

But what’s funny—and I think God has a sense of humor—is my lowest capacity energy level of the day is midday.

Dave Willis: —at the same time. Yes, I’m, literally, like—

Ann (16:54):

It’s four o’clock.

Ashley: Yes, I’m, literally, like—

Ann: With a mom: four o’clock, we can barely make it.

Ashley (16:56):

Yes; I mean, it’s so true.

Dave Willis (16:57):

God had a sense of humor. So I don’t try to change her by saying, “Let’s go mountain climb,” at 3:00 pm. And she’s learned to, at 10:00 pm, not initiate a deep conversation; because we’re in two completely different places. She’s in peak mental capacity, and I’m—

Ann (17:15):

—and she’s been grinding on this.

Ashley: Oh, yes.

Dave Willis (17:17):

Yes; she’s ready. Early in the marriage, she was just—

Ann: I would do this, too.

Dave Willis: —she would start in. I’m lying there, in a coma, and she’s just wanting to solve these massive issues. I’m just like, “Sweetie, I love you. I cannot think right now.” At first, she’d be offended, like, “You don’t care.” And I’m like, “I just can’t.—

Ashley (17:37):

“I can’t form a thought.”

Dave Willis: — “this is my rhythm.”

Ann: I would even say, “How can you fall asleep?! God wants us”—I’d put the God-card in—”God wants us to resolve this.” He goes, “I can’t keep my eyes open.”

Dave Willis (17:51):

“I want to be fully rested for this.” It’s not that either of you is wrong—one’s like, “This is so important; we need to deal with it now”; and the other one’s like, “I can’t think straight; I want to be rested when I deal with this,”—both of those are legitimate.

Dave (18:05):

You think it’s okay to go to bed with an issue—like maybe, mad; maybe angry; maybe, just unresolved—can you go to bed and talk about it tomorrow?

Dave Willis (18:13):

Well, I mean, the Bible does say, “Don’t let the sun go down on your anger.” I don’t see that so much as saying a commandment that every issue has to be resolved before you’re allowed to go to sleep, because we would never sleep. There’s some things that you’re going to have to—what I think more of that’s doing is saying—“Our anger is meant to have a very short shelf life; we’re not meant to live in a state of anger.”

Ashley (18:36):

You need to agree—you can go to bed—but you need to agree, and actually write it down, and say, “Tomorrow, at 11:00 am, we’re going to talk about this. We’re going to have coffee, and we’re going to be mentally ready for that. We’re going to prepare, say a prayer before. We’re going to be ready to talk about this; but right now, we’re going to go to sleep.”

I think that alone can bring peace to the person, who really wanted to discuss it right then; because they know it’s not just going to get thrown under the rug. I think that’s the fear: “Oh, it’s just another thing we’re adding to the list of things that never go resolved.” A lot of couples live this way. I’ve been really surprised, in working with couples through counseling, how many couples will go a week—like a solid week—without barely talking.

Ann (19:19):

Oh, Ashley, I think—

Ashley: It happens all the time.

Ann: —’ve seen the same thing. I just saw a couple, the other day, I’m like, “You can tell that there’s this simmering frustration/resentment.”

Ashley (19:31):

Oh, yes.

Ann (19:31):

You can feel it. I thought, “These guys have had ongoing unresolved issues.”

Ashley (19:37):

Yes.

Ann (19:38):

I don’t think a lot of people know what to do with it, because there’s so many that they haven’t resolved. How would they even begin, and where would they begin? What do you think?

Dave Willis (19:47):

I kind of look at it—to borrow a Dave Ramsey metaphor from the finance world—debt snowball: pay off the smallest debt; and then, work up to the next smallest debt, and all that. I think that that same principle can apply for these unresolved issues.

When you look at—in our case, the financial debt that had gotten so big, and you look at it all at once, it just seems overwhelming—and you think, “What’s the point?” I think some people live that way. But with the issues you’re facing in your marriage, look at the smallest ones first, maybe, and say, “Let’s tackle this one and get a win under our belt.” And then, let that snowball; and then, “Let’s tackle the next one,” and get that one under our belt; and keep moving forward, little by little, chipping away at this, and celebrating the wins along the way, knowing that some of these issues don’t even have to do with each other.

Ashley: Exactly.

Dave Willis: I mean, this is maybe trauma from our childhood—these issues that are deeply rooted within us—that it took years for them to get where they are. It is going to probably take years for them to fully find healing, but we’re going to keep moving in that direction, and not beat ourselves up that it’s this huge mountain we’re going to climb. We’re going to say, “Hey, we’re taking steps up that mountain today; and tomorrow, we’ll take some more steps. We’re going to celebrate those wins, little by little.”

Dave (21:01):

We don’t have a lot of time left; but a big issue in conflict is a word we all know, “forgiveness.” Discuss that: “Have you had to forgive?” “How do you forgive?” Couples are carrying bitterness—maybe, for days, weeks, months, decades—and at some point, you’ve got to bring God in, and say: “I’ve got to forgive her,” “I got to forgive him.” You’ve talked about even the porn-thing before in your marriage. How does a couple get to a place where they can forgive one another?

Ashley (21:32):

One of my favorite quotes on forgiveness is from St. Augustine; I’m sure you’ve heard this quote. It says, “Holding a grudge is like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies.” And so I look at unforgiveness the same way, just holding on to these things; because, in some way, I think we’re convinced—and this is a lie from the enemy—but we’re convinced that, if we let it go, then we’re letting them off the hook. But we have to remember that God is a just God and we have natural consequences in place. We have to give it to the Lord, and say, “God, You deal with my spouse and whatever it is that they did. I am hurt, but I’m going to let this go in the sense of knowing that You’re dealing with them personally. It’s not my job to have to hold this over their head.” In fact, it’s not a burden I’m even meant to bear. Because we can’t walk freely, and we can’t even love freely, in the way that our spouse really needs us to in order for them to get the healing they need and to make amends.

I think too, as a culture, we misunderstand that forgiveness and trust are two different things. I think a lot of times we don’t fully forgive because we can’t trust yet, but forgiveness and trust are two different things. Forgiveness is only given because God first forgave us, but trust has to be earned. We don’t just willy-nilly give trust. It has to be earned over time with consistency, where our words and actions are consistent over time. Dave did that with the porn issue that we’ve talked about on here before; but even in smaller things, like being willing to say, “Yeah, that didn’t go right and that hurt me—what you said hurt me—but I’m going to give this to God, and I want us to do better.” And when we show each other that we believe we can do better, you can rebuild that trust, slowly, over time.

(23:08) I think it’s just important that we try to seek forgiveness, and we try to apologize quickly; and then, accept that forgiveness. It’s important that we don’t allow things like that to come between us. I do think couples live for decades like this—almost kind of holding it over each other’s head and keeping tabs—and it’s just not healthy. It creates that undercurrent of resentment you talked about, Ann.

Ann (23:30):

Yeah. I think that there’s—you can just tell that there’s resentment toward each other—and they don’t like each other. You can see it, as they get older; they just don’t really care to be around each other or like each other. We all drift toward isolation, but we can all move back; and it’s never too late to do that.

Ashley (23:49):

Right.

Ann (23:49):

This has been rich! We could just do this together every time.

Ashley: I love it.

Dave Willis (23:55):

Yeah; we love you guys.

Ann (23:56):

We love you guys, too.

Ashley: Thanks.

Ann: I think this has been really helpful. Thanks, you guys.

Dave (24:01):

Let me just say this to the listener: “Every single day, families around the world are facing real struggles. FamilyLife is here with gospel-centered help and hope. And when you become a FamilyLife Partner, your monthly support fuels this work.”

Ann (24:15):

And with your monthly gift, you’ll become a part of a community that receives insider updates, which is pretty amazing.

Dave (24:23):

Yes, it is.

Ann (24:23):

And who doesn’t want to be a part of an insider community? You also get invitations to special events and more; because together, we’re helping families really grow stronger in Christ. So join us.

Dave (24:37):

Yeah, just go to FamilyLifeToday.com; and tap the “Donate” button at the top of the page.

Ann (24:45):

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