How to Lead Your Wife: Rechab Gray & Ike Todd

Episode Transcript

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How to Lead Your Wife

Guests:Rechab Gray and Ike Todd

From the series:How to Lead Your Wife (Day 1 of 3)

Air date:January 21, 2026

Ike (00:04):

God made a woman to be a helper. Her job is to help this man be the priest he is supposed to be. He cannot be what he’s supposed to be without her; so therefore, he must love her and cherish her.

Ann (00:29):

Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Ann Wilson.

Dave (00:35):

And I’m Dave Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

Well, it’s just me today; there’s no Ann Wilson sitting beside me. I’s not going to be as pretty in the studio, but it’s going to be a great day. We’re going to talk about what it looks like to love our wives as Christ loved the church. We’ve got Ike Todd back and Rechab Gray. These are the husbands of the wives you heard my wife Ann talking to about submission and marriage.

Let me start here: I don’t want to start with the word, “submission,” because it’s an inflammatory word, probably more for women than men. But as we think about our roles as husbands—a I know you’re both dads here—but today’s sort of about the role we’ve been called to as a husband. What are the words that come to your mind first when you think, “Okay, I want to be a godly husband.” What thoughts, or words, or concepts drive you to be the man God wants you to be, as a husband in your home?

Ike (01:45):

For me, the word that came to mind was “leader.” I just want to be a good leader; I want to rule with righteousness and justice. It was a sermon that you preached that—

Dave (02:00):

He’s looking at Rechab, if you’re not watching on YouTube.

Ike (02:03):

—that changed my desire. I want to love rather than lead.

Dave (02:09):

Do you remember what Rechab said that made you think, “Love”?

Ike (02:12):

I think it was probably the Genesis series, and you probably said those exact words. We talk often about leading when we should be talking about loving. It’s like: “Love your wives”; not “Lead your wives.” Something about that just resonated with me; because when I think of leadership, love is kind of secondary—it’s like being a loving leader—but it’s like: “No, love will do the leading.” You know what I mean? That was important for me; that was huge for me. So yeah, that’s what I think about: I just want to be a loving husband.

Dave (02:54):

Same thing for you or different?

Rechab (02:56):

Well, I got a story too. This was when we were in Philly, and I was doing those seminary intensives. I would have to drive down for a week to DC, and I was going to the RTS campus in Virginia. Man, it was just a hectic time; had just gotten into ministry sometime before that. We were just missing each other. It wasn’t like a bad time or anything; we’re just missing each other.

We called our mentors, Larry Smith and his wife Harriet—shout out to them in Philly—they sat us down at the table. As he lovingly did, he was grilling me on why we’re missing each other. Miss Harriet, his wife, looked to my wife and asked her a question—I’ll never forget it for the rest of my life—she turned to Ephesians 5. She said, “Yeah, I know Rechab loves you, but there’s a part of that passage that says they cherish and nourish their wives.” She asked my wife, in front of me, “But do you feel cherished and nourished?” And she just began to weep.

Dave (04:01):

Really?

Rechab (04:01):

And it was like she didn’t want to say, “No”; but through tears, said, “No.” Even now, it gets me every time. So when I think of being a husband, I think of cherishing my wife and nourishing her. Literally, the imagery that comes in my mind is like a flower. It’s my job to see that flower blossom and bloom to the glory it was meant to be. That requires leadership—that’s my job—to water her with the Word and to really cherish her and nourish her to a point where the fullness of who God made her to be blossoms like a flower. And so the word that comes to my mind is “cherish,” and that’s always my barometer.

Dave (04:45):

Do you think she’d answer that question different today?

Rechab (04:47):

Yeah, I think so. I hope so; I hope so. Yeah.

Dave (04:50):

You might have to ask her that one.

Rechab (04:51):

Yeah, right.

Ike: That’s interesting, for sure.

Dave (04:56):

That is a powerful image. Whenever I’ve taught on this—”Love your wives as Christ loved the church,” Ephesians 5—I think, as men, and I think, maybe even our culture, it’s like love has lost its meaning. We use the word for everything: “I love Jesus,” “I love San Francisco 49ers,” “…ice cream.”

Ike (05:18):

—“…tacos.”

Dave (05:20):

Yeah, tacos. It [love] doesn’t carry a lot of weight.

But cherish—I remember when I was thinking about how to teach this and understand it—I went and looked up the definition. Cherish is beloved; it’s related to costly, which means things that you cherish, you spend money on, you spend a lot of money on. When I read that, and you talk about it, and you study it, and you celebrate it, I was like, “I think guys”—at least, me—”cherish stuff.” I parked my car, when I had a nice car, it’s like I don’t want anybody to ding it with their doors. I’m going to park way out here.

Maybe Ann shared the story: I have guitars in my house. I could show you a picture of this room where they hang on the wall; it’s our studio. I’ve got these really nice guitars hanging there. Well, guess what else is in that room?—a humidifier, because the wood needs to be humidified. We live in Michigan, so in the winter it gets really dry. I can tell you right now on my phone what the humidity is in that room.

Ike (06:21):

You take care of those things.

Dave (06:22):

I cherish my guitars. If you were going to pick one up, I’d be, “Hey, Rechab. Hold on. You covering your belt? You’re not scratching my guitar.” And I thought—Ann might’ve shared this with your wives; I don’t know—but she said it from the stage before. She goes, “There was a night where I crawled into bed with Dave, and it was in the winter in Michigan. It’s so dry in our house that I’m getting nosebleeds.” She turned to me; she goes, “Man, I wish I was one of your guitars.”

Guys: Ooohhh!

Dave: In other words, there was a humidifier—literally there’s a little humidifier in our bedroom that was empty, because…—the guitars, though, in the other room, I can tell you on my phone what it is. And I’m like, “That’s bad.” It’s funny—she was laughing—but it was like—

Rechab (07:12):

Funny now.

Dave (07:13):

“If I was your guitar, you would really treat me; and understand I need moisture, or “…I need this,” “You’d talk about me; you’d put me…”

Rechab (07:21):

Wow.

Dave (07:21):

That’s what Paul was saying when you said “cherish and nourish.” They come to life, and they bloom. You wonder if your wife’s feeling that. Do you think your wives feel that?

Rechab (07:33):

It’s funny; I’ll even answer this for Ike. They’ve been married less time than us. We’re 16 years at the time of this recording.

Dave (07:43):

What about you, Ike?

Ike: We’re going on ten.

Rechab (07:45):

I actually did their premarital before they got married, which is really crazy. But I can genuinely say, within three years of their marriage, I was looking to him as a model for me for how to love my wife better.

Dave: Really?

Rechab: Part of that I think is the beauty of the church. You look at new believers, you’re like: “Yo! You are so on fire for Jesus!” It reminds you, not of what you used to be, but of what you should be more of, going forward.

Dave (08:14):

Your first love, yeah.

Rechab (08:15):

Yeah; yeah, absolutely. I think them in a younger season in their marriage, it definitely was a constant challenge of like: “Do I still”—not just love but—“like Brittany like this?”— “cherish her like this?”—”make sure she knows she’s liked?”—and “I’m still going after you with everything?” I don’t know if you know, [Ike], how much your model has been, just something I’ve kept my eyes on and that I let my wife know that.

Dave (08:42):

Do you feel like it’s still that way?

Ike (08:44):

When we talk about cherish, it is tough for me; because again, my mind goes to leadership. I naturally focus on that. And then, some of the love takes a backseat. But I do think my wife would talk about her flourishing with me and she’ll have, I think specific reasons. I’ve heard her talk about these things before. But for me, I know how much I’m failing, and how much I want to do more, and how much she deserves. So even when I hear her talk about it, it’s like, “Yeah, that’s cool, but I really, really should be cherishing her much more.”

Dave (09:28):

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Ann (09:37):

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Dave (09:46):

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Ann (10:07):

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Dave (10:16):

Well, let’s talk about this leadership thing; because you started there. FamilyLife—our Weekend to Remember—we have a different manual today than when Ann and I first started teaching. In the first manual—it’s still the same concept—but in the first manual, when we would split up on Sunday morning with just the men; and then, Ann would talk to the women [about other topics]—about this cherishing/loving your wives, we would always say this: “We’re called to lead like a servant; love like the Savior.” That was the phrase that was in our manual.

Rechab: That’s good.

Dave: So what do you think it looks like to lead like a servant? Or maybe it doesn’t look that way. I mean, how do you guys look at it? Because the submission side of them following us has a lot to do with how we lead. So how do you lead well?

Ike (11:03):

That’s what I’m trying to figure it out, man.

Dave (11:06):

You just do whatever she tells you to do?

Rechab: —and call it leadership.

Ike (11:09):

That’s interesting because that’s one of my personal struggles, because I think I’m naturally a more strong leader.

Dave (11:20):

More strong than her?

Ike (11:21):

—in general—than most people; but she softens me. Sometimes, it gets difficult for me to discern when I’m supposed to “put my foot down”; or “Is this a time where I’m supposed to be a lot softer?” I don’t know, man; sometimes, I feel like I’m a little too soft. I look back on decisions I should have made that would have pushed her, challenged her; but would’ve been right and good for her development and her love for Christ. Those are the things that I’m struggling with when it comes to leadership, because I’m naturally a little heavy-handed.

Rechab (11:59):

He’s telling the truth. He’s way more of a put-your-foot-down leader; charge. We was talking before this: it’s just about leadership qualities. He’s definitely got more of that move-us-forward type of thing. And I can absolutely say, but when it comes to Ari, so much of that is softer. And I think that’s a really good balance for his personality.

I actually feel the opposite. I feel like I could be more passive at times in my natural leadership; but because of my love for Brittany, I have more of a: “Nah, we got to go here.” But a lot of that, I will genuinely say is—and this is, I think, one of the things that I learned so much from the people who led me/the men who led me—is: “Talk to God about them before you talk to them about themselves.”

Dave (12:48):

That’s good.

Rechab (12:49):

Because what that does is it helps me to wring out: “How much of my ‘leading her’ is for the sake of my own kingdom?” and “How much am I leading her is for the sake of her flourishing?” One of the things I’m always asking myself is: “At the end of this decision, am I going to see her holy; or am I going to see her happy?” If I shoot for her holiness, I know happiness will follow; but if I’m only shooting for her happiness, then the holiness might not be there, and the happiness will quickly wear off. And then, I’ll have to seek another thrill to get her happy again; and seek another thrill to get her happy again.

So keeping holiness in front of us, man, I think that’s been a huge part of blessing of our relationship. And it is not always fun in those moments; but it also helps her to see: “This ain’t for Rechab’s sake. This is really for the benefit of us,”—but also her, and her flourishing and blossoming.

Dave (13:48):

Have there been times you did that poorly?

Rechab (13:52):

For the first, let’s see, five years; four years, at least. There was so much of my kingdom.

Dave (13:58):

What’d that look like? What do you mean?

Rechab (14:00):

And you know you can mask it with—especially, if you know the Bible pretty well—you can mask anything. A lot of it was like, “Hey, I think it’s really important that you support me in going out with the fellas so that I can grow in my walk with the Lord.” But really, that was just me trying to selfishly get some time out. It had nothing really to do with the kingdom of God. It had nothing to do with really me growing in the faith. It was just like I wanted to get my own time; it was really selfish, at the end of the day. I didn’t want to check that part of my heart, so I can mask it in community. I can mask it in a lot of different things. I did a lot of that putting pressure on her to support me in something like that, in biblical language. I’ve had to repent so much of that.

Be careful, really ask the Lord the heart of questions of your heart and anything you’re calling your wife to; because we can say, all day long: “This is for the sake of the kingdom,” and all of that; but a lot of times, it’s just for our own benefit.

Ike (14:58):

Along those lines, with me, it’s a little different; because I’m a vision guy, and I’m a conviction-based guy. If I believe we’re supposed to go this way, I believe it: “I’ve done all the work; I’ve prayed about it; I’ve thought through it; I’ve read all the Scripture about it; I believe this.” But when it’s time for me to actually lead us this way, now, she softens me. I’m like, “Hmm, how do I actually lead us this way when I know this won’t make her happy?” That’s my issue. Oh, my goodness; it kills me.

Dave: What have you done?

Ike: I get it wrong a lot, because I want to see her happy.

Dave: I mean, when you get it wrong, what’s it look like? Does she—

Ike: It looks probably like temporary happiness; and then, something comes back to bite us. It can be financial struggles or something. Or we notice just a little less of the Spirit moving. We’re not as focused and intentional about seeking the Lord. And when I start to see those things, I can, a lot of times, say it’s because of that decision.

Dave: Really?

Ike: Yeah; “We weren’t supposed to go there,” or “…do this,” or “We should have done the opposite”; and it kills me.

Dave (16:20):

Now, are your wives—when you’re leading in that way—are their voices loud?—are they like, “Hey, I disagree; I don’t think you’re right,”—or do they keep it quiet? What do they do when they don’t think your decision in leading is the way God wants your family to go?

Rechab (16:39):

It’s loud but quiet though. My wife—because all she got to say to me is—“And this what the Lord is saying?” That question alone will check me, like: “Wait, did I pray about this?!” “Did I seek the Lord on this?” And then, there’s sometimes keeping stuff copacetic, just making sure that stuff is moving smoothly. Yeah, I’ll make the soft decision too; but I did seek the Lord, and I know this isn’t that decision. She can even: “I feel like you are just trying to appease me rather than actually please the Lord.” It can just come out that quick. That just is a check to my gut, a real check to my gut; because I think that I’m going to make her happier in this. She’s so after holiness that, she’s like, “Don’t do that for me. I don’t want that in my life.” And for Brit, it literally is usually one statement: “So you prayed; I’m excited.” But then, if I didn’t pray, “Whoa, whoa, whoa; don’t be too excited.” It’s a literal check to my gut. And so yeah, it is usually mad quiet; but super louder, because it’s so quiet.

Dave (17:53):

Same thing for you?

Ike (17:55):

Yeah, she’s more—she used this in the beginning of our marriage—she’s like, “I’ll go, kicking and screaming a lot of times.” So if it’s a good time, she all for it; she loves that. And then, if something comes back and bites us; or I get the courage to tell her: “We should have done this,”—whatever; she’s like, “Why didn’t you just say that?! I’m going to follow you; that’s non-negotiable. I’m going to follow you. I let you know that from the beginning; that’s not a problem.”

I’m like, “Why did I think it was a problem? It’s not a problem with her! She wants to follow me; but sometimes, I just check it out.” You know what I mean? It’s like, “I wanted you to have a good time. You said you wanted to go to Disney,” or “You wanted to have a good time,”—whatever—”So we just did that.” But she’ll let me know, “No, you can actually lead me, and I will follow.” And she has to remind me of that so many times.

Rechab (18:54):

Can I get practical, real quick? So this is real practical. We can be chilling at night. Both of us are kind of bored with the TV; so happiness looks like, “Well, let’s try a different movie.” Holiness looks like: “Man, maybe the Lord is making us kind of disappointed with what we watching right now to lead us in a different direction. Maybe let’s spend some time in prayer,” or “Let’s just talk about the Scriptures for a little bit,” or “Let’s talk about the last book you just read.” It’ll be a mad encouraging conversation.

Now, the easier thing, and the happier thing; which is, “Let’s keep trying Netflix.” The holy thing is to have this deeper conversation, or prayer, or Scripture, or something like that. Every time we’ve decided the holier thing, we both end up happier; and it usually leads to some good old intimacy.

Ike: A happy time.

Rechab: The happy time. I appreciate it.

Dave (19:47):

Happy times; love it.

One of the reasons we’re talking about this is, when you guys were in here months ago, there was a look on your wives’ faces of joy and contentment when they talked about this word, “submission,” which you don’t often see with women, even Christian women in the church. It’s the “S”-word, “submission.” Your wives seemed to be [content].

As you think about what that means for us, as men, as well—but especially, for women—because when I speak at churches to men, it’s funny when you say, “Do you know what the Bible commands women to do in Scripture?” They know one verse in the Bible, Ephesians 5:22; they do not know [verses] 23, 24, 25—are all to the men and the husbands. There’s a lot more written to us, as men. There’s one to her, and that’s the only one they know. They think they also know what it means: “She’s supposed to…”

I want to ask you guys: “What do you think ‘Wives, submit to your husband,’ looks like? What’s it mean, and why are your wives thriving when they hear that word rather than what often is the response?”

Ike (21:00):

It’s so fundamental to me; it’s fundamental to just being a human being.

Rechab (21:04):

There we go, bro.

Ike (21:05):

We are created in the image of God. We are prophet, priest, king; and God made a woman to be a helper. So really, to me, it’s that simple; it’s so foundational. Her job is to help this man be the priest he is supposed to be. He cannot be what he’s supposed to be without her; so therefore, he must love her and cherish her. But she must submit to him.

We submit—let’s take the temple—everyone submitted to the high priest. It’s his job to go into the Holy of Holies. We hear from him; we follow him. Everyone is submitting to him. Well, in the home, I’m the priest. Her job is to submit to the priest. We all submit to our pastors; we all submit to our leaders, our bosses. We submit to the government; we submit to leadership. That’s just the natural order. I think my wife intuitively gets that; but she also had a wonderful example in her home with her father and her mother. Her father’s a pastor of a church. She’s seen her mother submit to him, and the difficulties in that; because she’s dealing with, obviously, a human being.

(22:37) I think my wife and I, when we talk about it, we really do try to simplify it. It’s not as big a deal or as a scary thing that people make it to be. Now part of that is: “It’s kind of easy for you to say,” type of thing. But when she talks about it, she points out the

1 Peter passage, Chapter 3. It says, “without fear” is the part that a lot of people miss. She kind of hones in on that. I’m sure she probably talked about that earlier. She tries to—

Dave: —meaning “submit without—

Ike: —“without fear”; I forgot the exact way it was said—but I know she goes in on that passage that was a light bulb for her. I don’t think it has to be this really scary thing—given we, in a broken world; given I’m a broken man, and I’m going to make mistakes—then, there’s going to be a level of fear that she has to work through in submitting to me. But she’s willing to work through that; she would relate it to the joy set before Christ going and He endured the cross. He entrusted Himself; He submitted Himself to the Father for the joy set before Him. My wife is entrusting herself to me by submitting to Christ and submitting to me. It really doesn’t have to be all of that—like a bad word—it really doesn’t. We all submit, in one way or another.

Dave (24:04):

I tell you. that was rich stuff. And we got more of what we just talked about. We didn’t even get into the really good stuff that’s coming tomorrow, so stay tuned for tomorrow.

Ann (24:14):

Before we’re done today, I just want to remind our listeners: we know life is full of challenges; and families today need biblical truth more than ever. Isn’t that true?

Dave (24:24):

That is true.

Ann (24:25):

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Dave (24:35):

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Ann (24:47):

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