Re-Introducing the Bible to a Skeptical Generation – Michael & Lauren McAfee

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Re-Introducing the Bible to a Skeptical Generation

Guests:Michael and Lauren McAfee

From the series:Re-Introducing the Bible to a Skeptical Generation (Day 1 of 1)

Air date:March 27, 2025

Michael:Overgeneralizing one thing that millennials hate is when you judge us, before you get to know us. Well, what we’re trying to do in a sense is to say, “Hey, you don’t like it when people judge you before they get to know you, but you’re doing that to the Bible. Why don’t you read it for yourself? And then if at the end of the day you come to the conclusion that it’s not worth your time, then that’s fine. Then you’ve made an intellectual case and decision for yourself.

Dave:Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Dave Wilson.

Ann:And I’m Ann Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

Dave:So we’re sitting here; I got to tell you, Mike. I’m looking over at you and I think your bald head’s better than mine.

Michael:Man, well, it might be a little too shiny. I need to buff it a little bit.

Dave:I mean, it looks like you just cut it down today. Did you? Are you like me, every couple of days?

Michael:Five years, going strong.

Ann:He’s got some cool glasses going on too.

Dave:I think I need the beard and the glasses. What do you think, honey?

Ann:I think you’re handsome no matter what.

Dave:Oh, she has to say that.

Michael:Sweet.

Dave:Well, we’ve got Michael and Lauren McAfee with us today talking about, not what you think, but it’s really the Bible and millennials. But before we go there, let our listeners know a little bit about yourselves; what you do, where you’re from. I know you’re Oklahoma City Thunder fans and all that.

Ann:You guys have done a few things that are pretty significant, and I think it’d be interesting for our listeners to know.

Lauren:Yeah. Well, we both live in Oklahoma, Oklahoma City and have been there most of our lives. Fun fact about Michael and I is that we met when we were seven years old.

Dave:What?

Lauren:Yes.

Ann:Oh, I didn’t know that.

Lauren:Yes, in Sunday school. Michael had been at this church and then my family started going there and when I was seven. We were the same age, so we ended up in the same Sunday School class and have known each other ever since and are still at the same church.

Dave:I mean there wasn’t anything going on in Sunday School like “I like her. She likes me.”

Michael:No, greatest life accomplishment was escaping the friend zone with Lauren Green. I can’t believe it happened. I’d say it took me ten years to talk her into going on a date with me and then took four years to talk her dad into letting me marry her.

Dave:Really?

Michael:Yeah, so then 21, we got married.

Lauren:Yeah, started dating at 17 in high school and then married at 21, right before our senior year of college. So we finished out college at the greatest school in the country, University of Oklahoma. Go Sooner.

Dave:Go Sooners.

Lauren:And finished out senior year. We had the same major and minor so by our senior year, all of our classes that we took were mostly together, which was really fun going to class married.

Dave:And then what’d you do after?

Lauren:I started working at Museum of the Bible, which was just an idea at the time.

Dave:Really.

Michael:She was the first employee.

Dave:How did you end up with that job?

Lauren:So my dad being the founder of the museum, was helpful for me to get my first job.

Dave:Did you all hear that? Her dad founded the Museum of the Bible.

Ann:Just put that in there.

Lauren:So I was finishing school, and dad was kind of beginning to start what ended up becoming Museum of the Bible in DC and I said, “Hey, I’m looking for any job. I’ll just do anything.” So I started doing data entry of some of the objects that were in the collections, some of the artifacts, which was a super cool job. I got trained on how to handle things, how to do the job of a curator, and then was entering the historical information about the artifacts that were in the collection.

Ann:That would be fascinating. Did you think that was fascinating?

Lauren:Oh yeah, I loved it. I was learning something new every day and working hands on with these amazing objects. So that was my first job. And then eventually ended up managing a team of curators for the different traveling exhibits that we did with the museum and then was kind of raising awareness about the museum. So that was my journey.

Ann:Let me ask you this, how long was the Museum of the Bible started after Hobby Lobby started?

Lauren:Yeah, so my grandfather founded Hobby Lobby in 1970.

Ann:I didn’t know that was that long ago.

Lauren:Yeah, yeah, 70 was when he started creating mini picture frames, which is what became Hobby Lobby. Their first store they opened in 1972 in Oklahoma City. And so it’s been over 50 years and grown from that one store in Grandpa’s house to now over a thousand stores across the country.

Ann:Isn’t that crazy?

Lauren:Yes.

Ann:And then when did Museum of the Bible start?

Lauren:Yeah, so Museum of the Bible started in 2010, and it began with this collection of artifacts and then traveling exhibits. And then the museum opened in Washington DC, its permanent location, in 2017, and it is the third largest museum in Washington DC, two blocks south of the Air and Space Museum, one of the Smithsonian’s.

Ann:And it’s phenomenal.

Lauren:So it’s right there in the heart of DC.

Ann:We didn’t give ourselves enough time. If you haven’t been, if you go to DC, make sure you go through that because it’s inspiring.

Dave:So Michael, what were you doing this whole time? Just over there playing games?

Michael:Yeah, I like to say I was living my seven-year-old dream, so seven years old. Not only did we meet, that was when I was baptized and saved, and that was also when we had career day and you’re supposed to dress up in first grade, the career you’re going to have, and most of my friends had on professional sports jerseys, they’re going to be a quarterback or a point guard for the Chicago Bulls or whatever.

Lauren:Dallas Cowboys.

Dave:That happens to everybody. It’s just an easy profession.

Michael:That’s what I should have done, but I was kind of nerdy. I had a blazer, a clip-on tie and my Bible saying I was going to be a preacher.

Dave:Seriously?

Lauren:Like a seven-year-old.

Michael:So that’s my, I say like every day, “That’s my goal is to keep my wife, keep my faith and keep my job.” So I’m still—

Ann:Michael, you need to come here and be this job, what we do.

Michael:Oh man, this is a blast being here. I mean, our plan was pastoring and local church work, and so that’s what I was doing full-time; still do that part time. And then as Museum of the Bible was getting going, Steve asked if I would come and help to do some of the church outreach. And so we started by doing that, did that for 2013 to 2020, something like that, and then realized that there was an opportunity, that there was a need for in bringing churches both to provide them for faith deepening experiences.

I liken Museum of the Bible to almost like a recreated little Israel. It’s this amazing place where in a similar way, you go to Israel and have a great experience, faith deepening, but in Israel, you wouldn’t go by yourself. You would go with a guide that helps to maximize and helps make it like an immersive Bible study. So inspire, that’s what we do is we help to be that and to do all of the logistics that you’d also have a guide to do on your trip to Israel, whether it be getting hotels booked and restaurants and transportation, all that. So inspire.org, that’s where we take people, help arrange all of their—

Dave:Where were you guys when we did the tour?

Ann:No kidding.

Michael:I know.

Dave:We walked through there. We were lost. We went to every level.

Michael:There’s a lot.

Dave:Even went to the cafeteria, but no, it was incredible.

Michael:No, Lauren alluded to it. Third largest, in terms of public space, third largest museum; take you nine eight-hour days to see, read and do everything at Museum of the Bible.

Dave:Really? I believe it.

Michael:Most people aren’t booking that much time, so if you want to say, “Hey, how do I do three hours or three days at the museum,” well, we can help you do that.

Lauren:Maximize it and get the highlights with the best stuff.

Michael:Have a pastor scholar to take you through.

Dave:Well, I mean that makes sense for this book.

Michael:Yes. Yeah.

Dave:I mean understanding all that, Not What You Think: Why the Bible Might Be Nothing We Expected Yet Everything We Need and as we read through it, there’s a lot in terms of you’re really reaching into the millennial crowd.

Ann:That was fascinating.

Dave:Talk to us about what does that mean? Why that? How’s that? How do they and who are they? I mean, we’ve got three sons. They’re all millennials, so we know, but a lot of people don’t even know what age group that is.

Ann:Are you guys millennials?

Lauren:We are millennials.

Michael:Yeah. We’re pretty firmly depending on where the demographic breaks. Something like 1980 to 1995 or 2000, somewhere in there.

Lauren:We’re like right in the middle.

Michael:We’re in the center of 87. It really did come out of, as we were traveling around spreading awareness for the forthcoming museum of the Bible, we were having conversations with a lot of people that were the age of our parents or grandparents that were passionate about the scriptures and were disheartened or discouraged seeing their millennial or their Gen Z kids or grandkids that didn’t share the same passion that we had for the scriptures.

We found that there was a language gap of sorts; that as technology has advanced and society is changing at a rapid rate, that it is harder and harder for generations to sort of talk to each other because their shared experiences are less and less because the world that their kids are grandkids are growing up in today is so vastly different than it was 20, 50 years ago.

And so this was our attempt to try and write a book to say like, man, if we could sit down with your child, your grandchild, and have a cup of coffee and just talk to them about why they should consider the Bible. Because typically they’ve walked away from it, not because they’ve actually read it, but because they’ve heard someone say why it’s not true or it’s not good for the world.

And this would be our attempt to reason with them why it’s worth your time. It’s not what you think it is. It’s not a book that’s oppressive towards women or people of color. That it’s not this book that has just a ton of rules that you have to obey well enough in order to earn God’s favor. Rather, it’s about the one person who did obey those rules perfectly and died in our place for our sin.

So trying to help them understand that what the Bible is would help hopefully lead them to a place where they would want to read it for themselves.

Dave:Now, are you finding that millennials are interested in the Bible?

Ann:I thought your three camps were really interesting.

Lauren:Michael mentioned as we were writing this book, it was as we were raising awareness about the Museum of the Bible, so we were having a lot of conversations about the Bible. And as Michael mentioned, those that were parents and grandparents and millennials were seeing this disconnect. But as we had conversations with the millennials and Gen Zers to try and better understand where millennials are coming from, most of them were really disengaged. Mainly because they hadn’t read the Bible, but a lot were at least open to a conversation.

Now some weren’t, but some were completely closed. But those that were in that movable middle that were curious enough, they had known something, or they’ve seen some Christians that were living it out okay, maybe. And they thought, “Okay, maybe this isn’t the worst. We’re really open to conversations about trying to understand the Bible, especially as they could understand the historical significance of this book. In the Museum of the Bible, we have a whole floor that’s dedicated to sharing what the history of the Bible is and helping people see that this is a book that has been around for a very long time, generations.

Dave:Longer than Harry Potter.

Lauren:I was going to say longer than any other piece of major literature that most people would have read or be familiar with by a long shot. So this is a book that is significant, has had incredible staying power, and not only that, but has had incredible influence in our world. Helping them just have a different understanding and a different approach than the sound bites that they’re hearing about the negative things that might be associated with the Bible to bring them into a conversation where their interest was piqued. And then there was a lot of receptivity whenever we were having conversations with millennials and Gen Zers.

And too, we also discovered that there was a strong pocket of those in our age group that were very committed to what the Bible said. I think that came in large part because we’ve lived in a culture that has not been advantageous to be a Christian, whereas maybe some previous generations it was something that was easy to say, and maybe was a positive thing for you to say you were Christian or a Bible believer. And so as a generation growing up where that wasn’t necessarily always a positive and sometimes it’s actually been a negative, those that really believed in this and were committed to it were very committed, which was very encouraging.

Ann:I was surprised that you found 27 percent of all millennials read the Bible at least once a week. That was actually, I was encouraged by that. That may not sound like a lot, but I was like, “Oh, okay.”

Michael:It’s hard to know exactly. Are they saying that? It’s like any poll; that we just come through the presidential election time and it’s like how accurate is it? But the reality is, is that there is a pocket that’s really Bible engaged and committed to it. Praise God. There’s a pocket that is biblically skeptical even to the point of hostile towards the Bible. But the vast majority of our generations, and actually the majority of Americans are open to the Bible. Maybe they’re friendly to it or maybe they’re at least neutral to it, but they’re sort of open to spirituality and would be open to the story of scripture and have not yet engaged.

And so that’s what we really tried to do is to, we address the far ends but really try to target that middle section to appeal to them. And the way that we try to appeal to them is one thing that millennials hate, and this is overgeneralizing because we are a huge generation, which is something we talk about. And so we don’t like being generalized but overgeneralizing. One thing that millennials hate is when you judge us before you get to know us. Get to know us, but don’t sort of throw labels on us.

Well, what we’re trying to do in a sense in this book is to say, “Hey, you don’t like it when people judge you before they get to know you, but you’re doing that to the Bible. Like you’re dismissing the Bible before you’ve even read it for yourself. You’ve just heard someone else say that it shouldn’t be trusted. Why don’t you read it for yourself? And then if at the end of the day you come to the conclusion that it’s not worth your time, then that’s fine. Then you’ve made an intellectual case and decision for yourself, but don’t judge the book before you get a chance to know it. And if you’re going to get to know it, start with the gospel, start with Jesus. He’s the center of the story. And then make a decision for yourself.

Ann:Who would you guys want to read your book? Is this for millennials? Is it for parents to give their millennials?

Dave:And don’t judge us Boomers. I know we got a phrase, Boomer. It happens to every generation. It really does. But yeah, who are you writing this for?

Lauren:So we wrote it as millennials writing to our peers, our millennial generation and our younger siblings, the Gen Z. But what we found that has been I think was maybe surprising for me once the book was out, was that a lot of the parents and grandparents of millennials and Gen Zers said that they read the book, and it was so helpful for them to understand through millennial kids and grandkids.

So really, I mean, I think I’ve heard from as many, if not more parents and grandparents saying that they enjoyed reading it because it did help give them a lens and a framework for, “Okay, here’s why my kid or grandkid thinks differently and here’s what’s shaping their perspective.” And it helps them step into that space and then better connect with their family whenever they’re having these conversations about maybe differences that they have or why they believe different things. And really that’s been such an encouragement to us to see that.

But originally when we were writing it, we thought it was going to be to our millennials, and we have heard positive feedback from those that were in our generation too. That helped give an authentic framework that helped them feel seen and understood in the way that we were outlining the book, but also really see that the point of what we hope people walk away with is that people can see the understanding of everything is about Jesus. And for them to have a better understanding of who Jesus is, what the Bible is about, and that it’s about a God that loves them so much that He sent His son who sacrificed His life and died and rose again for them. And to see that message come through, just ring through really strongly.

And that was a major hope that we had from the book, and hopefully that’s what millennials have been able to walk away with.

Michael:We both, we were influenced greatly by Tim Keller and his ministry.

Ann:Well, you have a Foreword by Tim Keller. We’re like, “Wow!”

Michael:The first few pages are the best of the book, hands down.

Lauren:The words he wrote.

Michael:And I think about his book, The Reason for God, and that was immensely helpful for me as a Christian in how to speak to non-Christians about the gospel. And so I think that’s what we’re seeing is a lot of it is just what I hope, what we strove for of like an empathetic tone towards their concerns and the hurdles that they have towards considering the scripture, and to allow them to have their voice and to identify with their questions, but then lead them gently to “Have you considered something else might be true than what you’ve assumed?”

Ann:I kind of like that you guys are millennials too, because you’re talking to your peers like, “Hey, we get you. We are you, and here’s what we’ve come to discover, and we love.”

Dave:And the empathetic tone comes through.

Ann:Yes.

Dave:Not judgmental at all. It’s like “We’re fellow travelers with you; consider this.” More like an invitation than a challenge. It’s a little both, but—

Michael:That’s the hope.

Dave:—what would you say to those parents that are saying, “My son or daughter has walked away from the Bible,” or “I raised them in church with the Bible,” maybe “We did even devotions.” And again, there’s an epidemic of that happening. So a lot of our parents are like, “How do I approach my son or daughter who’s 30, 35 and I’m not sure what to do?”

Lauren:We mentioned already that a lot of people’s understanding of the Bible or what the Bible is about was based off of maybe sound bites or thing they’ve heard in culture. But the other significant thing that I found, and this was mainly from conversations we were having with millennials as well as research and data that we saw, was a lot of millennials are skeptical about the Bible and its message because they know someone who claimed to believe in it who has deeply hurt them or someone they know. Or they have seen harsh unkind mean voices that claim to be Christ followers who did not represent the fruit of the spirit and that was very, really put off the whole Bible and Jesus.

And so for those that are maybe wanting to have conversations, I would say start by listening. In our opportunities to listen we heard a lot of really painful stories of people, millennials sharing the particular situations that they had been through that was maybe someone from their church or even a ministry leader, how they had treated them wrongly or really hurt them through some experience.

And I want to understand and have compassion and empathy in knowing where people are coming from and that there’s a lot of pain associated with some people when they think about Christianity in the Bible. And so starting with listening well and understanding is I think a really good posture to begin those conversations.

And one of the things that we both often say is you can’t blame the Bible for the way that broken and sinful men and women have misused it. So they may claim it and not live that out. No one’s ever going to live it out perfectly, but for the ways that we see people not upholding and living out the Bible, we don’t blame the Bible for that. The Bible is not at fault. So give the Bible a chance, understand what it teaches while also, “I’m so sorry and hate that you’ve had this hard and really hurtful experience with someone who claimed it’s truths but did not live it out.”

So I think listening and having empathy and then gently pointing again just to the truth and the beauty and the hope of the gospel. I mean the beauty of what the Bible teaches should be something that is better and more beautiful than anything else this world has to offer in a way that if we communicate that the goodness of it, it should draw people to want to understand our creator better.

Dave:It’s interesting how much we hear that. That is often heard, church hurt. I guess you’re saying sort of Christian person hurt, somebody that claims to be and not living that out. When you’re saying that, I was thinking, isn’t it interesting If you read the Bible, you’d be like, wow, they didn’t live it either. The very people in the Bible probably hurt a lot of people because they claim faith and didn’t live that way so that’s one of the things I love about it. It’s so honest. It’s so real. It’s not plastic. It is not covering up anything. It shows you the sinfulness of mankind, why we need a Savior. But I mean, if a parent has a child who’s seen it or maybe it’s they see it in their own parents.

Ann:Or Dave, I was thinking it’d be interesting because we have done this with our millennial kids, but to have conversations. I mean, Dave was the pastor of our kids’ church, and so to ask them, how have you guys seen church hurt in your own lives? How did you experience it? They’re very open to talking about that. Everybody has a story.

And as a parent with a millennial, I don’t think we need to take that personally. And maybe if it is personal, maybe there’s a great opportunity to apologize or to repent or to say, I’ve never thought how difficult that must have been for you. Our kids all have a different story and a different lens that they’ve seen and experienced it through. It could open some doors to hear where your kids are coming from.

Lauren:Yeah. Absolutely. That’s beautiful.

Ann:I bet you guys have some stories that you could share. It sounds like you have kind of a pretty amazing background.

Michael:Well, no, I mean being willing to, just to commend the parents and grandparents you’re talking about. I mean, being willing to enter that conversation I think takes courage and coming at it with humility. I mean, we’ve all seen it go wrong when you don’t have that posture and man. I mean even just yesterday I saw a friend of mine post something online and private messaged, just said, offered a different perspective on something that he posted on. We have a relationship and so it was immediately met with, “Wow, you’re right. I never thought about it like that.” And so we just began a dialogue.

And so especially today when there’s so much kind of division and vitriol and generally in our culture, it’s a space that the church has a real opportunity to lean into and to have good conversations in humility, holding up truth, but doing it in a way where we approach it knowing that we don’t have to defend Christ’s church. We don’t have to defend Christ’s word in the sense of when someone expresses something that isn’t true, correcting them right in the moment. We can acknowledge their pain, acknowledge their hurt, acknowledge their questions, and let them have a safe space to process with you.

Dave:So this friend that posted recently, you private messaged him?

Michael:I did, yeah. I mean, it was just an Instagram story post, and it was on an issue he hadn’t thought it through. And so I just said, “Well, have you considered this alternate perspective?” And he said, “You know what? That actually does make sense.”

Dave:I mean, what I’m highlighting is you didn’t go into the comment section—

Lauren:—publicly—

Dave:—and challenge him publicly, which is what I see, even people I know—

Ann:And then everybody jumps on a side.

Dave:I mean to do it privately and say, “Let’s have a conversation about this.” And I’m guessing just by your tone, even in your book, it was not a judgment. It was like, “Hey, here’s a different perspective,” and he was open to that. Way to go.

Michael:Yeah. Well, and again, having the relationship. It wasn’t just someone I knew. It was someone that we’ve gone and had lunch privately. We have a depth of relationship where I said, “I wouldn’t say this to everyone, but it’s important for us to have conversations.”

Lauren:Yeah, I think that just highlights the importance of truly caring about people. Caring about people over maybe your own desire to be right or over being right about issues is when you start first about caring about people. I mean, we see that Jesus really went and met with people. He of course had a large following, but really, He focused on investing deeply with people.

And then He would go and find people like the woman at the well, and He went and met with a tax collector. He went and met with these people that you would think, “That’s not the ‘right’ people for Him to be spending time with even.” But He cared about people. He saw people and met them where they were.

And I think that’s the heart that I hope all believers would approach tough conversations is wanting to look and see, “Okay, the person that we are talking to, we may disagree on things or there may be hurts in the hard conversations, but this is a person that is created in the image of God, that I should see as an image bearer and treat them as such with human dignity and respect and love because God loves them and Christ loves them.”

And so how can we find common ground and then have hard conversations with that starting point and continue to show respect and empathy and care even as we point out maybe hard truths sometimes. And I think that’s not always easy to naturally do, especially in today. I think people are not accustomed to that approach. But I think that is what makes it so beautiful for the sake of living out the gospel is showing there’s this other way to come and approach things.

Dave:I mean, when you’re saying that, I was thinking one of my favorite passages in the New Testament is Luke 15, where you have Jesus telling three parables that have the same point, which means he’s hammering something home. The coin, lost coin, lost sheep, and the lost son, the prodigal. But it’s interesting how that whole passage starts. He’s sitting with tax collectors and sinners and the religious people say he’s a friend of sinners. And I think Jesus, like that’s a badge I wear with honor. That’s what we all should be.

So my last question would be this. If you’re a parent and you’ve got a millennial or younger and they’re just not interested at all in the Bible, maybe they were at one time, but at this time they’re not, coach the parents. What would you say to a parent to say, how could I help? They’re just, “Oh, I’m praying and I’m wanting my son or daughter to at least open it up and investigate what’s in there.” Maybe they’ve forgotten, maybe they never have. What would you say to a parent that encourage them to say, you can have an influence in what way?

Michael:It’s always said, anytime a question like that is asked, the power of prayer. I mean the power, of the importance of a praying parent. We could talk about that for five minutes, so I’ll just leave it there.

Beyond that, something that I think that is helpful that I learned from Peter Williams who wrote a great book on Luke 15, The Surprising Genius of Jesus. He told us one time, “Whenever you have someone that is skeptical, ask two questions.” Especially this would be someone that maybe isn’t coming from the church hurt, but genuinely has questions related to scripture. “What is your hardest question that you have about the Bible?” And then second is “What’s your most important question?”

And those two questions for me have been a great conversation starter for people that have questions because the caveat is your hardest question, if I can provide a reasonable answer that shows that there is a reality where that has an answer, would you then be willing at least to concede that every other question, every other hard question that you’d have could have an answer for it. But the most important question really drives at the heart, what is it that is for you keeping you from considering Christ?

Ann:What great questions.

Michael:And it really does. And that gets to helping them disentangle millennials. Gen Z, like every young generation hates authority. And so trying to put Christianity as an authority structure or the church as an authority structure, they’re rejecting the church, but they’re rejecting every authority. And so it’s not even necessarily personal to the church in a lot of senses, helping them say, have you just considered Jesus as a result of whatever your main question is, can we consider Jesus together? Which is why I think a great place to start is to get them to read one of the gospels with you and just consider the Jesus of the Bible and take away the opinions of everyone else in a sense and just study the scriptures.

Lauren:And one thing that I would add too is just the very practical; let them see how much you love the Bible yourself. That this is something you read. This is something that you seek to live out. This is something that is the most important thing impacting your life. And to let that display for them the significance of this book in your own life. And I think that that should hopefully cause curiosity and at least an openness to, “Okay, this is really important to you, mom or dad,” and hopefully soften the heart of their children to want to then consider that or at least have the conversations.

Dave:I did a chapel one time for the Detroit Lions. I did it every week, so 11, 12, 16 of these a year, and we were on a road game, I think Philly, and I remember it was basically, I’m going to talk about how important the Bible is to be reading it. And the guy sitting in the front row, that’s the Bible scholar, this guy’s been to seminary since, but he was a Bible guy. He was our kicker, and I opened the chapel saying this. I go, “Hey, the Bible’s so important. I want to talk about how important it is for you to read it. So hey, take your Bible right now. Turn to the book of Hezekiah and I want to talk about it.”

And Jason goes, he goes like this with Bible. He puts it down because I caught him because there’s no Hezekiah book in the Bible. There is a man named Hezekiah, but he started, then he realized everybody else in the room was still flipping through looking for Hezekiah, but it was just making the point that this is a book we say we revere; we need to read it.

Ann:I bet you added something about I bet you know every play in the playbook for football.

Dave:Exactly. But you don’t know the most important playbook. Let me say this. We would love to send you this book, Not What You Think, about the Bible. This is good stuff, and here’s how it works. You send us a donation because we’re a listener supported ministry.

Ann:Of any amount.

Dave:Any amount will bless this ministry. We’ll bless you with this. Just go to FamilyLifeToday.com or give us a call at 1-800-358-6329 or 800-“F” as in Family, “L” as in Life—

Ann:Today.

Dave:—and the word “TODAY.”

Ann:And the word “TODAY.” If you need more on this or any kind of parenting help, you can get more at FamilyLife.com/ParentingHelp. It’s going to be a benefit to you because we all need some help.

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