Remarried? Here’s What Your Kids Need: Ron Deal and Rod & Rachel Faulkner Brown

Ron: You can try to talk to both little parts of their heart, something like: “You know what? If I were you, I get it. I can see how calling me ‘Dad’ just feels weird. And if you need a break from that, that's okay.” You give permission to that child needing to use a different term. And then, you try to talk to the other half of their heart, and say, “But I want you to know that I love you like crazy, and this doesn’t affect our relationship.”

Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.

Dave: This is FamilyLife Today.

Ann: Okay, Dave, did you know this?

Dave: I probably didn’t. [Laughter]

Ann: The blended family ministry at FamilyLife® teaches that no one in a stepfamily has had more loss than the children.

Dave: Oh, that has to be true. And I know Ron Deal says the problem is that, often, the adults—the parents and the stepparent—are unaware of what the kids are going through. I know my dad and my stepmom had no idea what I was going through, so they miss the chance to help the kids with their grief.

Ann: And I get it, too; because the parents are going through a lot of trauma, anyway.

And you know who else doesn’t get this is church leaders.

Dave: Oh, yes.

Ann: And that’s one of the reasons we put on the premiere blended family ministry conference for church leaders: the Summit on Stepfamily Ministry is our annual event for church leaders and lay couples.

Dave: October 10 and 11, 2024; it’s going to be in Dallas this year. We’d love for you/someone in your church to come. You can check the show notes or go to SummitOnStepfamily.com to learn more about it.

Ann: Okay, yesterday,—

Dave: —yes, it was awesome.

Ann: —we started listening to this great conversation between Ron and Rod and Rachel Faulkner Brown that was released on our FamilyLife Blended® podcast earlier this year. So far, we’ve heard about Rachel’s loss before they got married; but in today’s episode, we’re going to get to look into the lives of their kids. So let’s pick up that conversation at that point.

[Previous FamilyLife Blended Podcast]

Ron: Now, they were really young,—

Rachel: Yes.

Ron: —but that doesn't mean they're not grieving; one.

Number two: The way children grieve is over time: when they're ten, and when they're sixteen, and when they're…new layers of life and new things pop up in their mind. They have to think back about how life was or would have been.

I'm just curious—as you guys have looked over the last ten years—“What have you seen in the children that you would just say, ‘Yes, that was grieving,’ ‘…that was transition,’ ‘…that was adjustment’?”

Rod: With Davis, I think we saw it, early on. I traveled our whole marriage, and they both were so excited to have a father. I would get emotional even thinking about what Davis was saying as we're up there, getting married.

Ron: And he’s like four or five?

Rachel: Seven.

Rod: Seven at the time; and he’s like: “Thank you, Mr. Rod,” “Thank you, Mr. Rod,” as we're praying and doing our vows. It’s overwhelming, thinking about that, much less being there. Being there, it was really overwhelming, in a beautiful way, in a beautiful way.

But it seemed like, when I would leave town, he would miss his dad. We started realizing it was only happening when I would leave. We were thinking, “Maybe, that is him, kind of in this in between space, grieving his dad and, somehow, me in there”; because he grieved a ton, growing up, from what Rachel's told me, a lot.

Rachel: Well, when we moved—you know, moves are like setups by God to upset your routine, upset your utopia—and that happened when we moved to Huntsville from Columbus. We left the house that Blair and I owned. Davis was four; and so he really grieved moving, leaving his friends. He went through this initial grief—had not really grieved before that—but that move; and then, of course, marrying Rod, which was a good bit later.

Rod: And then, never saw Campbell really grieve or talk about any of that until she was probably around ten or eleven. I began to sense a little anger in her towards me and towards anything that was related to me. I just didn't know what was happening. I probably felt it for three or four months; and then, one day, Rach said—I don't know if it was through a counseling session or they were just talking; I can't remember—but she said, “Hey, she's grieving. She's grieving her dad, trying to figure out, ‘Okay, now I have this dad,’ and now grieving her real dad for the first time.”

I'll never forget—I was in Rhode Island—and she [Campbell] called me after a counseling session, and just said, “Hey, I have some things to tell you.” I said, “Okay.” She said, “I realized I'm not going to probably call you Dad. I have a dad; and even though he's dead, I still think of him. I'm not sure how I can love him and love you.” She just told me all these things that were, obviously, heartbreaking; but at the same point, I said, “Hey, whatever you need.” At the end of it, I said, “Whatever you need, Cam, that's fine. If you don't need to call me Dad, I love you; and I'm here for you; and it's okay.”

God had put me in a place: I honestly, Ron, was so excited that she got it out and told me.

Ron: Really?

Rod: I was just so grateful. I got off that phone; and I, literally, was saying: “Thank You, God. Thank You, God. Thank You, God, that she is getting this out of her into me; so now, it's no longer a secret between her and me. It's out there.”

Ron: So here she is: afraid to say this, and unpacking, and getting it out there. There had to be a sliver of your heart that was sad,—

Rod: For sure.

Ron: —just grieving over. But there was another part of your heart that was happy and joyful for her.

Rod: Yes, yes.

Ron: And then, say a little bit more about: “…glad it was out”; because that what?—took the pressure off the two of you?—or what?

Rod: I think/well, probably—it wasn't between the two of them anymore—I feel like, more than anything, “Now, she has told me; so this thing that's been between us, that's been unsaid, is no longer unsaid between us.”

Rachel: It's like a splinter; it's causing infection.

Rod: Yes; so now, she shared this. I was just so grateful. I remember exactly where I was, in the parking lot I was in, and just thanking God for that.

Well, then five minutes later, I get a call; and she said, “Hey, I wasn't emotionally satisfied with your response.” Again, 11-year-old.

Rachel: Legit said: “…emotionally satisfied…” [Laughter]

Rod: We just went back through it. I said, “Well, you said you weren't going to call me Dad for a while.” I was like, “Hey, I want to support you. I mean, I just want to be what you need. I'm okay with what you need to do as you grieve this and as you figure this out.”

At some point, she abruptly hung up the phone; and then, I tanked. I went from, in ten minutes, really praising God to tanked. I was tanked for 24 hours. I wasn't coming home for three more days, and so there was a big part of me that was kind of dreading coming home.

Ron: What was it she didn't get from you that she needed?

Rod: Yes, that's a good question. I don't know; maybe, she needed me to fight for her a little bit more?

Rachel: Yes, I think she was mad that he wasn't mad that she was mad. You know what I mean?

Ron: Yes.

Rachel: I think it was like, “Well, I want you to kind of fight back, and reject me, calling you ‘Rod,’” almost. I’m sure her estrogen was like out of control. I mean, she was very prepubescent; and I think that is a really—knowing the times and seasons of your kids—you know?

Ron: Yes; guys, this is so important for our listener. I just want to add a little commentary. I don't know what was going on for Campbell in that moment; I can't even begin to jump inside that and explain that for her. But here's what I think I can say on behalf of many children; and that is, that her back and forth—her hot and cold: her “I need to not call you ‘Dad,’ but I need you to fight and want me to call you ‘Dad,’”—is so exemplary of the confusion that children feel about biological parents and stepparents.

I've said this so many times in seminars: I've had kids sit in my counseling room and say, “I like my stepdad; that's my problem.

Rachel: Oh, wow!

Ron: “I don't know what to do with him. I don't know where to put him. If I love him too much, it feels like I'm moving my dad out of my heart; and I can't stand that idea. I feel guilty and sad about that”; and so liking you is part of the problem. If they're drawn to you; and at the same time, they don't know what that means for the other caregivers in their world that they appreciate and value.

You can be thoroughly confused, on the receiving end of that, as a stepparent, going, “What in the world is going on? I don't understand this messaging.” What you just need to know is: it is confusion trying to work itself out of the heart of a child, who's 11—who's pretty sophisticated, emotionally satisfied—but at the same time, very, very unsure of herself and really doesn't have a good perspective on all of that emotion.

Rachel: No; and I will tell you: I did a little interviewing of Campbell, just preparing for this. We sat at the dinner table; and I said, “Let me just ask you some questions.” And she said, “I was afraid that you loved Dad more than me,” meaning Rod. She said, “I think that was the problem.”

Ron: There you go!

Rod: So yes, it was a moment—or the time there/that 36 hours—it was like this beautiful thing happened; and then, now, I'm in the tank. That was my heart towards her; it was like: “Hey, I'm patient. I love you; I'll wait. I'll be here with you, grieving.”

Rachel: And pause—this is five years into our marriage; she's been calling him “Dad” for five years—like: “What?!”
.
Rod: Yes; she started calling me “Dad” way before we got married.

I was on the trip; I knew I wouldn't go home for three days, so I was getting really nervous about coming home. I think, within two days of getting home, I was taking her to school, or taking her somewhere, and we just started talking. She just kind of revisited that call, not in a negative way, but just sharing it. We talked about it; and then, talked again the next day/another chance to talk.

It just seemed like, all of a sudden, we started ramping up, just having the best relationship we've ever had over the next years. But it was just really—obviously, very important for her to process all that—very important for her to grieve and really important for her to tell me those things. I'm glad she did, and I'm glad that it was short-lived. [Laughter] I'm glad that it was quickly back to calling me “Dad” and all that.

Ron: I want to point out some things you did right, buddy; okay? [Laughter] Way to go!

Rod: Thank you.

Ron: A) You didn't pull away from her; you moved toward her. You kind of got back into the routine, driving her to school—the simple little rhythms of life—and yet, emotionally available and connected and not afraid of her anger or rejection.

I think that's mistake number one: “You don't love me; then, fine; I'm not giving you…”—whatever. No; especially, adults have to manage their pain a lot better than that. And your just unknowing could have made you vulnerable to rejecting her, and it didn't. So way to go; that's the right move.

I'm also imagining somebody's listening right now, going, “Yes; so Ron, what do I do? My kid's confused, and they're saying, ‘I don't want you to be my dad anymore.’ How do I respond to that?” I don't think there's a way to cut the baby in half, and satisfy everybody and have this magical moment, where you do exactly the right thing.

I think what's most important is that you can try to talk to both little parts of their heart, something like: “You know what? If I were you, I get it. I can see how calling me ‘Dad’ just feels weird. And if you need a break from that, that's okay.” You give permission to that child needing to use a different term, which you did, by the way.

Rachel: Yes.

Ron: And then, you try to talk to the other half of their heart, and say, “But I want you to know that I love you like crazy, and this doesn't affect our relationship. You're my daughter and in my life, and I am going to continue to be family with you. Nothing's changed as far as I'm concerned. I'm still just as crazy about you as I was before—and will be—no matter what you call me.”

You're sort of talking to both sides of their confusion, if that makes any sense.

Rachel: Yes, yes.

Rod: Sure; yes.

Ron: And you're giving permission to what they need to do; and at the same time, you're pursuing and saying/affirming their worth and value to you.

Now, at the end of the day, I'm not saying—please don't anybody write me and say, “Ron, I didn't satisfy my 11-year-old,”—I'm not saying it's going to make an 11-year-old okay. I'm just saying it's messaging that, eventually, I think they can hold onto and find their way through with. No, it doesn't fix; but it does represent your heart and moves you toward them.

[Studio]

Dave: You’re listening to FamilyLife Today. We’re listening to a portion of the FamilyLife Blended podcast with Ron Deal and his guests, Rod and Rachel Faulkner Brown.

Ann: Here’s what we believe at FamilyLife and FamilyLife Blended: We believe that stepfamilies can be healthy, strong. That’s why our blended family ministry exists, because we believe that.

Dave: And if your church would like to make a difference, too, join us at the Summit on Stepfamily Ministry October 10 and 11 in Dallas. You can find the link to sign up in the show notes.

Ann: And let’s get back to the conversation.

[Previous FamilyLife Blended Podcast]

Ron: I'm curious: let's talk about Campbell's sibling, Davis, older brother. Has he had some similar kind of back-and-forth stuff, or has it been different?

Rod: No.

Rachel: [Laughter] No, it is crazy. Davis is really fascinating. Rod is his dad—it's very odd—how he said, “It throws me off when people call Rod my stepdad.” He was like, “He is not my stepdad.” It almost makes him angry that people refer to him that way, so it's really interesting. You were Dad pretty much from the beginning [for both children]—but you were Dad in his heart and in his mind—where Campbell, kind of in her mind, you were Dad; but in her heart, she was still…

It's real interesting; because you would think Davis would have maybe struggled more with [being] a male—you know that male-to-male—like, “I miss my dad.” But anyway, it's been: Davis is such an anomaly, I guess.

Rod: He was actually angry at Campbell during that time when she was kind of rejecting me. I had to talk to him through that: “Hey, buddy, you grieved back here…she never did, so this is her time of grieving.” Because he'd be like, “You’re the best thing that's ever happened to us!”—you know, all this stuff. [Laughter] I'd be like, “Hey, buddy, just relax. It's okay; she just needs to go through this. It's okay.” And then, “She's going to work through it. You grieved a lot; she never got to do that, and so here's her grieving.”

Ron: So the reason I brought this up is because I sort of suspected that it might be like that. There's something about stepsons and stepdads, that bondedness can really fill a gap for a young boy. But you can't narrow it down to gender. It's just within a sibling group—you could have one child who’s on this journey, and another child's on a different journey—sometimes, they're walking side by side; sometimes, they've parted ways, and there's conflict between them because of that, just like that happened there with Davis.

Each child is an individual, right? And they're going to be on their own path. You just can't make any assumptions about where any particular child is going to be. We always teach: “Go with that child/pace with each child.”

So Campbell says, “I need to pull back”; “Okay, that's what we'll do. I'm still loving you; I'm still here, but you can use a different term for me right now.” But Davis is like: “Nope; 100 miles an hour forward; we're not slowing down.” Okay, pace with that child and go with that. It can be confusing, as a stepparent, because some days you don't know whether you're coming or going, depending on who's in the room; but that is the journey.

You guys may or may not know we lost our middle son, Connor, when he was 12. As we have journeyed now, for almost 15 years without Connor, we've watched our other two boys. They each have their path: they each have their way, their style, their personality, their expression of their sadness and grief. And there have been plenty of moments, where I had an anxiety about how they were doing it. You have to go: “Wait a minute: is this my need?” or “…their need?” or “How do I meet them where they are?” And sometimes, I do want to offer a little perspective and guidance; but at the same time, it's got to be their journey, not mine.

It's all hard; you feel like you're shooting at a target that's moving, and you're just unsure. So lots of prayer—lots of prayer—talking to other people, getting community around you with folks that maybe have a little more experience with it than you do, and just trying to find your way.

Rachel: Yes; and I don't create opportunities for my kids to feel sad. [Laughter] I see that happen a lot with widows, though; they want to manufacture things to help their kids grieve. I'm like, “They are going to grieve.”

Rod: Just provide the space when they are; right?—and not trying to talk them out of the grief when they're grieving—“Oh, but your life is so good,” “Your life is so good now,”—or whatever. I think it's just getting in the well with them; and being that/you know, grieving with them as best we can. Unfortunately, I don't know how much role I can play in that, over the years, except for just be okay when they are. I think just create space for them.

[Studio]

Ann: We’ve been listening to a portion of the FamilyLife Blended podcast with Rod and Rachel Faulkner Brown. Ron Deal, the host of that podcast, now joins us in the studio. Ron, welcome back.

Ron: It’s always good to be with you guys; thanks for having me.

Dave: Hey, Ron, one of the things you mentioned earlier in the podcast was talking to parts of a child’s heart. I know I need to understand that, so help us understand: “What do you mean by that?”

Ron: Yes; well, kids and adults—you and me both, Dave—need to understand this. This is just some language that, sometimes, helps parents and couples to be honest and individuals to sort of understand the parts of themselves when they’re experiencing something.

We were talking about helping kids understand the part of them that is grieving over the loss of their dad, and there’s another part of them that is excited to have Rod as their stepdad. Well, sometimes, those two parts get into a fight in our heart—we call that a loyalty conflict—where we’re not sure if we can move toward the stepparent, in this case, without feeling guilty over missing the biological parent.

The same thing happens with us, as adults. There’s a part of me that’s really stressed about work; there’s a part of me that’s all frustrated or wrapped up with a relationship in my extended family; or there’s another part of me that’s happy and feeling optimistic about life. Sometimes, those things just get into conflict with one another. If you articulate it in a way—“This part of me feels this”; “That part of me feels that”; “This part of me is experiencing this,”—all of a sudden, it sort of helps break it down in a way where you can look at it a little more objectively.

Children, in particular, just sort of feel like: “I just have one big place in my heart. I am feeling this one big emotion, and it’s sort of messing with everything else.” Well, when you can break it into parts, it makes it a little more manageable; and it helps them to see: “Well, wait a minute; I can still be loyal to my father, who is deceased; and now, love this new person in my life.” And that’s really not a conflict; it makes space for new possibilities.

Ann: That’s helpful for everybody.

Dave: Yes; I was going to say, “That’s marriage advice.”

Ann: Yes, it is.

Ron: Exactly—and here’s the marriage application—a lot of conflicts couples have are about a parenting situation, right?

Ann: Yes.

Ron: Well, sometimes, I need—I know in Nan’s and my relationship—I’ll say, “Well, my dad heart is feeling this: I really want to come alongside our child and help them. But my husband heart feels like that puts you in the middle, as my wife; and you’re feeling something different about this. I realize the dad part of me and the husband part of me are sort of in conflict and sort of making conflict for you, as it relates to our child.” Just talking through it that way helps me understand what’s going on with me, but it certainly makes it easier for my wife to understand what’s going on with me.

Dave: Yes; one of the things you guys talked about was how different the reactions were of the children to their new stepdad.

Ann: Is that common, Ron, for their reactions to be totally different?

Ron: It is. If you just want to think about how hard it can be to be a stepparent, just ponder for a minute: you have four stepchildren, for example:

One of them is so excited you’re in their world, and they are moving toward you in every way imaginable.

Child number two is sort of like: “Yes, I can take it or leave it. You’re nice to have around, and your money’s good; and you do wash my underwear, and I appreciate that. But no, I’m not going to be kind to you; because I don’t really know what to do with you.”

And then child number three has a very different response, even from the other two.

And child number four is like: “No, I’m 22; and I’m moving on with life. I don’t need you at all in my world.”

Think about how confusing that could be for that stepparent: “I am a totally different person to each one of those individual children.”

It’s not necessarily common that, in a sibling group, they’re all going to have very different reactions; but it is common that there is some variation between kids. One of the things, because of that, we teach stepparents—and the biological parent, who is also involved in this—is:

“Being patient with yourself, not expecting too much out of you. If one thing is going really well with one child, okay, rest in that: enjoy it; feel good about it.”

And this child over here, it’s a challenge—it’s not going so great—"Okay, keep pressing, but don’t work too hard at it. Meet them where they are. ‘Pace’ with the child is the word we would use, and just recognize that they have a different level of openness to you. You have to meet them where they are and try to grow from there.”

Ann: Ron, it’s always great to be with you. Having you on with us today; this has been really helpful.

Dave: Thank you.

Ron: Thank you.

Shelby: I’m Shelby Abbott; and you’ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson, with Ron Deal and Rod and Rachel Faulkner Brown, on FamilyLife Today. As Ron Deal mentioned, the Summit on Stepfamily Ministry is coming up October 10 through 11 in Plano, Texas. You can learn more and get all the details by heading over to FamilyLifeToday.com.

We believe in reaching blended families, obviously; we’ve been talking about that today. If you want to make your mark by helping us reach blended families, or any families for that matter, you can partner with us by making your contribution to the ministry of FamilyLife, linking arms with us and helping us to make every home a godly home. If you want to make your donation, you can head over to FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can check out the show notes. Or feel free to give us a call, with your donation, at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY.”

Now, coming up next week, Allen Parr is going to be joining Dave and Ann Wilson to talk about seven lies that distort the gospel. Learn about those from this famous YouTuber and his mission against false teachings. That’s next week; we hope you’ll join us. On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I’m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

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