Stop Sabotaging Your Marriage: Ted Lowe

Episode Transcript

Ann (00:04):
Okay, let me ask you something.

Dave (00:06):
I’m a little scared; I don’t know what you’re going to ask.

Ann (00:08):
Do you feel like you’ve ever sabotaged our marriage?

Dave (00:12):
Oh, my goodness! My first thought is: “I’ve sabotaged it countless times every year.”

Ann: Really?

Dave: Oh, in things I’ve said or done. I mean, 42—now, 43 years—yeah, I think I’ve sabotaged in many ways.

Ann: Don’t you think every couple has?

Dave: I think you’ve sabotaged it more than I have.

Ann: Probably!

Ann (00:40):
Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Ann Wilson.

Dave (00:46):
And I’m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

Dave: I honestly think, “Man, if I’d done better in year one,” “…in year five,” and “…ten, we could be…” But here’s the thing: I also, when I say that out loud, feel like the grace of God has been so good. Here we are sitting—and I look at you—I love you more than I ever have.

Ann (01:19):
Me too. And the good news is we’ve learned, the hard way, in so many different ways, that we can maybe help other people not sabotage their marriage the way we have.

Dave (01:30):
Today, we’re going to talk about five ways to stop sabotaging your marriage. And we’ve got the guy to do it; Ted Lowe is back in the studio with us!

Ann: We’re so excited, Ted; you’re here!

Ted (01:38):
Guys, I’m excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Dave (01:40):
And you’re over there, thinking, “What in the world are we really going to talk about?!”

Ted (01:45):
No, I’m kind of loving watching you guys talk to each other like this. It’s super refreshing. It’s not like what I experience on a regular basis; well done!

Dave (01:52):
How many years you’ve been doing marriage ministry?

Ted (01:55):
Since 2001.

Dave (01:57):
So you are the guy to tell us how to stop sabotaging our marriage.

Ann (02:01):
And we’ve interviewed you before on your book called Us in Mind—so maybe, you’ve [listener] heard some of this—I think these are going to be really good.

Dave (02:10):
One of the things you mentioned, in Us in Mind: How Changing Your Thoughts Can Change Your Marriage, is five intentional thoughts. I’m guessing you would say, and I agree, that these will—if you do these, you’ll [want to] stop doing these—because the first one: “Remember who I am,” —I think we often do the opposite; we don’t know who we are—and that destroys a marriage. How does that destroy marriage?

Ted (02:33):
Like we talked about the last time I was with you guys, our thoughts—they’re not our actions and our attitudes; I know I sound repetitive—our thoughts are not our actions or attitudes, but they lead to both. What I’ve found, after doing this for a really long time—and didn’t even really do the math on it until a couple years ago—is most of us aren’t thinking about what we’re thinking about. We just trust our thoughts as if they’re going to always lead us in the right direction: as if they’re always true, and as if they’re always helpful, and as if they’re always kind. The book kind of revolves around that; it revolves around, “Okay, how do we become more intentional with our thoughts? How do we boss our thoughts instead of our thoughts bossing us?”

(03:16) The first one was: “To remember who I am.” I think one of the things that’s been the most powerful for me, personally, and ultimately for my marriage, is remembering Whose I am. I think we can complicate Jesus and God in so many ways. But just go back, constantly, that we are His child, that we are His. I feel like there’s been a few times I feel like God has whispered things to me—not audibly, but just on my heart—says, “You’ll become a man in your world as you become a child of Mine.”

(03:44) Kids are always looking for approval, looking for worth, looking for value; but I feel like, when I remember who I am, I’m already a man here. But just, when you’re His child, then you lean back; and you trust Him to be Him and you to be you. He’s way bigger than us; and that’s really, really good news. He adores us—we listen to critical thoughts more than Him—and I think it breaks His heart. The thought I’ve had before, too: it’d be like our kids coming home and telling us what a bully had said to them all day; and then, looking at us and going, “Hey, all the things you’ve told me my whole life, I believe the bully more than you. ” That would break our hearts. I know it’s got to break the heart of God, when He said, “Oh, why don’t they listen to how much I love them?” Just the simplicity of that is—somebody going, “Oh, I am so loved; I can breathe.”

Ann (04:35):
There was a girl that I worked with, who came to my house. She had tried to commit suicide three times. It was after her freshman year of college—where she had an injury; and she couldn’t play soccer anymore—she couldn’t perform at the level that she once performed. She sat down on my couch, and I asked her, “Who are you? ” And she said, “I’m a soccer player.” I said, “That’s what you do, but who are you?” She said, “I have no idea. If I can’t do that anymore, I don’t know who I am.” I shared the gospel, because that’s what gives us our worth of what Jesus did for us. She ended up, a few weeks later, gave her life to Jesus. Here’s what we think when we do that: “Now, I’m free! I can live in this.” But for years, she had been believing the “Fred in her head” [lies in our head].

(05:41) It takes practice. What I saw [when] I went to this conference with her: she’s amazing; she’s beautiful; she’s smart; she’s funny; she adds so much to every group she’s with. But as we’re in this group, all of a sudden, she’s with us in physical form; but her mind is gone. I remember pulling her aside, and I said, “Where are you?” She said, “I don’t belong here. I’m not good enough to be with these people. They don’t understand who I am and what I’ve done,”—and that’s what you’re saying.

I felt—I remember lifting her head—and I said, “Jesus knows who you are; He knows that you’re here. He loves you. This is who you are: a daughter of the King! The Holy Spirit lives—the God who created the universe—lives in you. We need the fullness of who you are; I need the fullness of who you are.”

I love—that’s what you’re saying, Ted—”If we don’t know that, we become lost in ourselves.”

[Guitar music playing.]

Ted (06:30):
I didn’t know this show had music!

Dave: It just comes in out of nowhere.

Ann (06:35):
It’s kind of amazing; isn’t it?

Ted (06:37):
I’m not really sure what’s happening, but I’m sort of loving it.

Ann: It’s exciting; isn’t it?!

Ted: It is! Are you guys bringing in puppies next? I don’t think I could be any happier than I am in this moment.

Dave (06:51):
Everything’s better with music behind it; right?

Ann: It is!

Dave: This is a chorus we’ve all probably heard, that came out years ago. At church, I’d play bass; I didn’t usually sing. But when the singer would sing this lyric, I thought—I would tear up—because it’s our identity; it’s what you’re saying; you know what it is. [Singing] “I’m no longer a slave to fear;—

Dave and Ann: —”I am a child of God.”

Dave (07:19):
It’s a simple phrase; and yet—I don’t know if you remember the bridge—”I am surrounded”—look at that—“by the arms of the Father; I am surrounded by songs of deliverance.” You could go on; it’s just—

Ann: —songs of deliverance.

Dave: The reason I would tear up is something in my soul was saying, “That’s who I am; that’s who we are.” And that, when you bring into a marriage, you’re right—that’s not going to sabotage a marriage—it’s going to build.

Ted (08:00):
Well, that song is based off the verse [my] chapter is based off of [Romans 8:15].

Ann: Really?

(08:04):
Ted: “The Spirit I gave you is not that of a slave who lives in fear.”

Ann: That’s good.

Ted: How great is that? The Spirit—capital S—the Holy Spirit—

Ann: —the Spirit.

Ted: —has brought about your adoption into sonship. And so He is saying, “You’re safe; you’re adopted. I’m doing all the dad stuff.” I remember I’d say to our kids, when they were little, “That’s a big-people problem; you don’t have to worry about that. You go be a kid. That’s a big-people problem; I got this.” Especially, our daughter—she was anxious—”No, no…” I think sometimes [God says], “No, no, no, Ted; this is a God-problem; this is not for you. You just go—you feel loved—and live loved.”

Ann (08:36):
That’s good.

Dave (08:37):
Yeah, that’s good stuff. So that’s just one!

Ann (08:39):
That’s a good one because, when we remember who we are, we bring the best of ourselves to the table, with our kids and our marriage.

Dave (08:46):
Number two: “If you want to sabotage your marriage or your family, see the worst.” You say, “See the best!”

Ted (08:53):
Yeah, it’s something that happy couples do. I don’t know if they do it, because they learned it; I don’t know if it’s because their brains are naturally wired that way, but they see the best in their spouse. I do believe that we can all learn it and start to see it. Philippians 4:8 gives us a really great filter of thinking: “Whatever Is true, whatever is noble, whatever is pure, whatever is right, whatever is lovely; if anything is praiseworthy,”—anything—some people: we got to start there: “Is there anything?” Because people will say to me, “There’s nothing!”

Ann (09:20):
Oh, yeah; that’s what I hear, too.

Ted (09:21):
Oh, yeah; especially, when they’re fired up about it: “No, no; that does not work. That works for everybody on the planet, but me.” I get it. But again, the verse starts with “true”; you can deal with some really hard things when it’s true. And then, you know what you’re dealing with; because you’re starting with truth and not denial: “Okay; what is true about our situation? What’s true about them?”

See the best; what I’ll say to couples: “Let what you love about your spouse block the view of what you don’t; start there. If you want to come back to those things, great. But what do you love about them? Because you loved something about them, at some point.”

(09:49) You watch a couple: they’re really frustrated, sitting across from me. When I can’t get anywhere with them, I’ll say, “So wow, you guys; boy, this is tough. How’d you get together?” Their body language will change when they start focusing. They did see the best in each other, and the way they treated each other was so great. We get so—life is hard—it gets going fast, and we stop seeing the things. We start going; and we’re just thinking our spouse becomes a hindrance, [getting] in the way of getting the things we got to get done, done.

Ann (10:31):
And we start comparing our life compared to their life, thinking that we are doing so much more.

Ted (10:38):
—100 percent. The number-one time couples are fighting is when they reconnect at the end of the day. I think part of that is they come in, and they compare:—

Ann (10:45):
Yeah.

Ted (10:45):
—”Oh, my day…” “Oh, my day…” “Oh, you think your day was tough?!”

I worked for an organization for a while. I would actually go in and speak a couple of times a year—organization that worked with couples, who had children that were on the autism spectrum—they would come in. I would watch; and I would see some of them—all the things they were dealing with actually drew them together—and others, it had totally pushed them apart. I think the divorce rate is pretty staggering.

I’d done this retreat about ten times. I’m driving home, and I’m like, “What is the difference between these two couples?”
• What is the difference when it’s pulling them together, where they’re all sitting on like this sectional couch; and then, they couldn’t even get close enough to each other.
• And the other one’s like, they wanted to sit in the other room.
It hit me: “It’s really a mindset of when they’re reentering the home; because they would fight, and they had pretty similar things/struggles. It would be like, “Hey, I’m going to honor everything you’ve done today. You’ve been home—you’ve been with our kid all day—you’ve been researching all the treatments; you’ve been researching all the therapies. I’m going to honor that.” The other one: “Hey, I’m going to honor the fact that you are out, trying to make the finances to make that happen,”—because insurance is not great in this regard. It was like: “I’m going to honor what you’re doing instead of compare. [We’re] going to carry each other’s burdens.”

There was this one lady: it was such a great example of this. She said that, when her two kids, who were both on the spectrum, she would be home; and their days were really, really tough. She said she would hear the garage door go open, and the kids would. Dad would come in, and they would race to dad and wrestle with dad. She’s like, “I couldn’t get a hug out of them. Here, he’s been gone all day; and they went to wrestle with him.” And she said, “It made me so angry.” She goes, “I was mad at all three of them!”

(12:19) And then, she said—one day, she said—”You know what? I’m going to join in.” She said she just ran and just dove on top of them. She became a part of it, but it was just a mindset shift. It was something that was hurting her, and it’s totally understandable. Of course, that would break your heart—of course, it would; of course, it’s not logical; it doesn’t make any sense—but she changed her mind-set. That was the difference; it was a mindset shift to see the best in them.

Because, usually, when we’ll pull back—especially, if somebody’s listening right now—hopefully, they’re not in the middle of a fight; so their brains are kind of cool and calm. You can go, “Okay, let me just consider that for a minute: ‘What do I love about them?’”

Ann (13:03):
Yeah, put in your phone! I’d put it in the notes; and then, even send it to him, like, “Hey, thanks for these things…”

Dave (13:10):
Yeah, why don’t you do that? That would be great.

Ann (13:10):
I’m going to; I’m going to do it tomorrow!

Ted (13:13):
Tomorrow’s always a good new day.

Dave (13:15):
And the truth is—like you said—it’s intentional; because if you don’t do it intentionally, you’ll default to the negative: you’ll see the worst!

When Ann and I were dating, and engaged, she could list all my great qualities: “He’s this, this, this.” Six months later, she yells at me, “Marrying you was the biggest mistake in my life!” She said that.

Ann (13:35):
“There’s not one thing I even like about it.”

Dave (13:38):
Yeah, she saw that—all the negative—and it was all there.

To flip that—because I think we default to negative—we drive by a car wreck; we all want to watch it rather than—it’s the same thing in our marriages. We want to see the worst rather than seeing what you just said: “No, I want to default to—I want to see the positive; it’s there—but I have to choose it.”

Ann (13:58):
Okay; we need to move, because we’ve got three more to go.

Dave (14:02):
Number three: “Intentional thought to build your marriage is choose empathy.” I guess, to sabotage it, is stop choosing what?—negativity?

Ted (14:11):
I think it’s when you—

Dave (14:12):
—anger?

Ted (14:13):
—try to—

Ann: —fix this.

Ted (14:13):
—fix them.

Ann (14:14):
Yeah.

Ted (14:15):
A lot of times, we try to fix our spouse’s emotions; because we don’t like their emotions. Or they’re inconvenient; they’re going: “Oh, here we go again.” Or we don’t like that; it just doesn’t make any sense to us. Or we see when someone’s emotional, they’re—not usually, but can be—talking irrationally or illogical, maximizing statements about things; and we want to fix that.

Both men and women do it. Guys are more classic about: “Let me just fix this.” My wife told me one time, after a series of this not going well and me not being empathetic, she goes, “I don’t want you to fix this; I want you to feel this.” It’s so much easier just to feel it—just to sit there, and to look with a genuine look on my face that mimics, not mocks, that look on her; and just, “I’m so sorry this is hard.” And she’s the same way—says things like—”That’s understandable. If I were you, I’d feel the same way.” Or just, “Ah, I’m so sorry; that sounds terrible,” “That sounds so tough; I’m so sorry!”

(15:12) She used to go away with her girlfriends—or she still does once a year—the four of them will go on a trip, the same ladies; and they’ve done it for years. She comes back; and she’ll talk about they share “x,” “y,” and “z.” I go, “Well, what did they say about it? ” “Nothing.” I’m like, “Why don’t you talk about it?!” For years, I didn’t get it: “Oh, she loves that trip because they’re so empathetic; and they don’t try to fix each other.”

So yeah—don’t try to fix it—and that’s for men and women. And that’s the good stuff: don’t try to fix that they love something that you don’t. If your spouse—I’ll see this [during] the holidays—you got one that loves to decorate and get everything. Oh, I can tell, immediately,—

Ann (15:48):
—and buy presents.

Ted (15:49):
—presents.

Dave: —too many presents.

Ted: —too many presents.

Dave (15:53):
Doesn’t stay within budget.

Ted (15:56):
And then, you got the grit.

Dave (15:57):
Am I supposed to—

Ann: Is there a budget?

Dave (15:58):
Am I supposed to feel that?—or fix that?

Ted (16:02):
Well, I don’t know. I’m not going to go that deep with it, but it is the thing of there is typically one who loves all that; and the other one’s like, “Are you kidding me, again? Why?—why do we need multiple trees?” Our house has multiple trees.

Ann (16:17):
You have to!

Ted (16:19):
“I don’t get it.”

Dave: “Why do you need more than one gift?”

Ted: I won’t get it until Jesus takes me home; and then, I’m going to have some questions; but it makes her so happy.

Ann (16:25):
We’ve heard it said—how do they say that?

Dave (16:28):
“Meet emotion with emotion.”

Ann: That’s it.

Dave: “And meet logic with logic.” So if your spouse comes to you with an emotional issue, feel it; don’t fix it.

Ann: Empathize with her.

Ted: That’s so good.

Dave (16:37):
She comes to you with a logical issue; it might be a time to say,” Okay, let’s talk.”

Ted (16:42):
I would say, if you’re giving homework for people: “Say, ‘That’s understandable,’ about three or four times this week; and watch the look on their face.”

Dave (16:50):
“That’s understandable.”

Ann: That’s good.

Ted: “That’s understandable,”—

Ann: Yeah, I love that.

Ted (16:54):
—and be sincere.

Dave (16:59):
You’re listening to FamilyLife Today. I’m Dave Wilson. And before we continue our conversation, let me just say this: at FamilyLife, we really believe strong families can change the world. And when you become a FamilyLife Partner, you help make that happen.

Ann (17:14):
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Dave (17:22):
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Ann (17:35):
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Ann: What’s number four, guys?

Dave (17:45):
Number four: “The way to sabotage your marriage would be react. The way to save your marriage is pause and respond.” Is that a good way to say it?

Ted (17:56):
Well, this is one of the things—I land on the research and I thought—“Oh, this is why”— me included—”people, who want to be great spouses, find themselves saying and doing again that thing they swore they’d never say and do again; or react in that way, that in their more logical moments, they’d go, “I don’t want to react that way.” People can respond in a way; and they’re so bewildered afterwards: “I can’t believe that I’ve done that again.”

The research is really clear: when your spouse triggers you, it triggers the same part of your brain called the amygdala; that if you were to accidentally put your hand on a hot stove, you’d immediately jerk it away. If you were to step in the street for just a second, and you hear something come, you’re going to jerk back. There’s no thinking about it; it’s reacting. At the same time, your frontal lobe is going a little bit out to lunch, which is where all your logic is. So it’s great—the amygdala is great; we better be glad we have it, because it does so many things—when it comes to marriage, the amygdala is too efficient. You react—and people react in different ways—but you react, and you forget what you want for your marriage.

So if you’re a reactor—we’ve all heard: “fight, flight or freeze”—if you’re triggered, you step toward the tension.

Ann (19:12):
Oh, this is me: “You want to go?!”

Ted (19:14):
Oh, and if you’re married to somebody, you wants to go, they go, “Hey, I need a minute,” “Oh, no; we’re taking care of this right now while I have no logic.”

Ann (19:21):
“Don’t avoid this!”

Ted (19:22):
Yeah; “You’re avoiding. We’re going to air this out, and we’re going to air it out now.”

Ann (19:26):
Yes.

Ted (19:27):
What I love about—what I’ve always done is—“Scripture and science are not in conflict with each other at all; they just illuminate each other, even the neuroscience coming up. So way long before I get geeked out on neuroscience, Scripture was very clear: “Okay; so what do you do [when] your brain goes out to lunch, and you’re reacting?”
James 1:19 and 20: “You need to be quick to listen—

All: —“slow to speak, and slow to—

Dave: —“anger.”

Ted: —to becoming”—look at that word, “become angry”—for me, I’d say I had ADHD long for it was cool to have it. And we’ve been sharing stories about losing things; that’s part of it. I think for us, impulse control is a thing of ADHD; and I’m not teasing about that. I know people tease about that. No, clinically diagnosed: “You are this, Ted; there’s impulse.”

(20:17) I’m going, “If I can learn this”—and I’m not always perfect by any means—”anybody can.” So if you can start getting into the rhythm of when you get triggered, just don’t talk at first. Some people are listening, going, “Oh, I don’t talk; I don’t talk for six weeks.” I’m not talking about that passive/aggressive; I’m talking about—I shouldn’t have called somebody passive/aggressive—that’s not kind. Okay; I’m talking about that: I’ll call you “a stuffer,” that you got files that you’ll pull out later.

(21:06) But I’m saying, for most of us, we need to take a deep breath. We need to pause, and we need to let our frontal lobe—the logical part of our brain—catch back up. The part of our brain:
• that remembers what we want for our marriage;
• that remembers that we don’t want to react poorly;
• and most importantly, remembers who we are.
• Remember: “This person in front of us is a child of God,”
• That remembers: “Take a breath and say, ‘I want to respond versus react.’” I’d say the space between triggered and reactions is where relationships are built or broken.

Ann: Oh, that’s good.

Ted: It’s right there, in that space, that we’ve got time. I think, for most of us, when we look back on those times, where we regret—that turned into these nasty arguments—it is because, in that triggered moment, we said something we should not have said. My wife told me one time: “When you’re angry, you find your words. When I’m angry, I lose them.” That’s a gift I wish I could return. But what I’ve learned is: “If I’ll just pause, and I’ll take a breath, and don’t say anything with anything—not with your body language, your face; 80 percent of communication is nonverbal, if not more—so just to take a breath. Give it a second to remember how you want to be, and how you want to respond. Start to listen; be slow to speak; and don’t become the angry spouse you don’t want to become.

Ann (22:07):
That’s simple; and yet, hard. Something that we just need to start practicing. I need that one.

Dave (22:12):
Alright; last one.

Ted (22:13):
Alright.

Dave (22:14):
“Love first; that’s how you build a marriage.” You sabotage by—

Ted (22:19):
I think you sabotage by scanning the relationship for what’s fair and whose turn it is. This is like: “Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.” Everybody goes straight to the love and respect verses, which are great—back up a few verses—”Submit to one another,” “Submit to…; in other words, “I’m going to put your needs ahead of my own in this moment.” In other words, “I’m going to go first. I’m not going to try to figure out whose turn it is; I’m not going to try to determine what’s fair; I’m just going to go ahead and love first.”

It really makes sense, from a spiritual perspective, to say, “What do we do with the ultimate act of submission?” It’s when Jesus looks at Abba, and says, “If there’s any other way…but if not, not My will, but Your will.” It was the ultimate act of submission that demands a response. When you’re married, it’s constant little reminders of: “If He can do that, then I can pick up my daughter when it’s not my turn to pick up my daughter,” “If He can do that, I can be kind when I don’t feel like being kind,” “If He can do that…”—it’s this thing of—”I’m going to submit; I’m just going to love first.”

People say, “Oh, I’m afraid I’ll get taken advantage of. ” You might! But let me ask you something: “When somebody loves you that way, is your knee-jerk reaction to take advantage of them?” or “I’m going to see how I can leverage this to my benefit?” Are you drawn to do the same? And there’s no promises; I can’t make promises your spouse is not going to keep, but I don’t think that there’s anything to draw your spouse closer to you than when you just go ahead and, “I’m just going to go and do this. I’m just going to love first.”

I asked on social media: “What’s one way that your spouse loves you first?” It, apparently, has a lot to do with coffee and dishwashers. I don’t know what that is about; but it is about coffee and dishwashers for some reason.

Ann (24:01):
These have been so good.

Dave (24:03):
I can guarantee—I’m making a guarantee—“You do these five, you will build a marriage.”

Ann (24:10):
Ted Lowe has a book called Us in Mind: How Changing Your Thoughts Can Change Your Marriage.

Dave (24:14):
You can find it by clicking the link in the show notes at FamilyLifeToday.com.

And also, we wanted to let you know about a free guide we want to give you. It’s filled with helpful marriage wisdom from real-life couples, who’ve been where you are. You can grab your copy today at FamilyLife.com/MarriageHelp.

Ann (24:34):
Again, go to FamilyLife.com/MarriageHelp for your free guide, full of marriage tips.

Dave (24:45):
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