The Road to Kaeluma – Landon Hawley & Perry Wilson

Episode Transcript

FamilyLife Today® with Dave and Ann Wilson – Web Version Transcript

This content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.

The Road to Kaeluma

Guests:Landon Hawley and Perry Wilson

From the series:The Road to Kaeluma (Day 2 of 2)

Air date:June 3, 2025

Dave:Two of our sons—probably, all three—felt this pressure to live up to our expectations. Some of it was [because] we’re in ministry, pastor of a big church.

Ann:They’re PKs.

Dave:I remember one of them said to us one day—again, now, they’re adults and they’re saying it years later—but it’s like, “Yeah, I stopped drinking in high school just because I didn’t want to ruin your reputation.” We’re like, “You didn’t stop drinking because it was wrong?!” “No, it was really like your reputation’s something I could crush.”

Perry:Did you notice that creating distance?

Dave:Yeah.

Perry: —as the result of pressure?

Dave:They felt this pressure; and I was like, “I don’t want you to feel that! I don’t want you to drink, but I don’t want you to feel that pressure.” And yet, we do that as parents in many ways, especially in a Christian household.

Dave: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Dave Wilson.

Ann:And I’m Ann Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

Dave:I’m excited; we’re talking about The Road to Kaeluma. We started, yesterday, talking about this new audio drama that FamilyLife is producing.

Ann:It’s exciting!

Dave:You love it; I love it. Yesterday was really fun; so if you missed yesterday, go back and listen. If not, listen to this clip; and then, we’re going to tell you the exciting news about this coming to you soon.

[The Road to Kaeluma Clip]

Orrick:I’m Orrick, son of Chief Yannick. I’m the scion or heir of Pahar. Our village is full of farmers, miners, and smiths.

Man #1:I’m Mr. Smith.

Man #2:I’m Mr. Farmer.

Orrick:Nothing really happens here. We live at peace, safely hidden between the great Gulder Mountains and the vast Myar Sea. I mostly watch my father conduct village business or settle petty disputes. If I’m lucky, I get to train for battles that won’t ever happen. Like I said, nothing happens here. Absolutely nothing at all. I can’t, for a minute, think why you should be interested in my life in any way whatsoever. I guarantee you nothing of consequence will ever happen here.

Herald:[Horns blowing] An event of great consequence has just occurred! Make haste to the inner gate!

[Studio]

Ann:That reminded me of Lord of the Rings—actually, the horns blowing—or Jesus coming back; I don’t know which one.

Dave:This is the second time I’ve heard that—and I just loved it the first time—I love it even more because I knew it was coming this time. Anyway, we’ve got the co-writers and producers back in the studio; Perry and Landon are back. When you guys hear this, what do you think?

Ann:Is it crazy to think this started from nothing but your friendship, your imaginations and your passion? Is it crazy to hear it now?

Landon:Absolutely.

Perry:It’s mind-blowing.

Landon:Yes, it is. Yeah, this started with us taking a couple hours out of our work week: “What if we wrote something?” And then, to hear it—

Perry:Two years later, we had a script.

Landon:And man, so many talented people came around us to do the score, the acting; and so it’s sounding phenomenal.

Perry:I remember, when we first got our first pass of music, I shared it with Landon. We’re listening to it, and what did you say?—“I’m, literally, crying.”

Landon:On that, I may or may not have teared up, when I was like, “This is the music we have.”

Perry:And that was before putting it in sync with our dialogue—so we’re just hearing it dry—and we’re like, “This is amazing.”

Ann:Guys, it’s the magic of Disney. It’s like the soundtrack of your life. When you put music to something, it comes alive.

Dave:I’ll remind our listeners what we talked about yesterday. It’s based on the story in the Bible that Jesus told in Luke 15 of the prodigal, the prodigal son. Even as you hear that, again, I don’t want to say what we said yesterday; but as you envision parents and families—sitting down, or driving on a road trip, or whatever they’re doing—listening to this, what are you hoping happens between parents and their kids?

Landon:Yeah, well, you want everyone to listen to just a good story. We need and we bond around good stories. That’s really what we want people to listen to. And then, I think the best stories are one that point us to Christ. To be able to have good conversations surrounding that and just a place for parents and kids to talk about some hard things or some difficult things.

Perry:And like you also said last time: “Kids are smart.” We felt like putting—we say, “reimagining the story/the parable of the prodigal son in this fantasy world—we feel like that allows us to explore what the themes would be like in our world that we’ve created without making the kid feel dumb, like we’re trying to trick them into doing the Bible study with us or something. My mom used to, sometimes, be like, “Oh, guys, I want to watch this movie; it’s so great! Let’s all…” And then, it’s the newest [study].

Ann:I might’ve done that a few times.

Landon:We think our story is engaging for anyone who listens and fun for anyone who listens.

Ann:What about is age appropriate?—how old?

Landon:Yeah, we’re saying age is eight-plus You’ll hear a snippet of a scene at the end of the episode that has our scariest scene in it, the scariest scene in Episode One. So if there’s ever a scene parents want to screen, listen to that. We have one kind of scary magical creature in there, but we were very intentional to steer clear of anything that would be—

Perry:—sacrilegious in any way.

Landon:Yeah, exactly. And this is supposed to be an allegory of a parable in a sense. And so even our characters that we have them representative of the father and the elder brother and the younger brother, they’re not them.

Perry:They’re not.

Dave:You’re the modern-day C.S. Lewis.

Landon:Don’t say it. Don’t say it.

Dave:I see what you’re doing here.

Perry:We just like to say it’s our sandbox that we get to show parables—or even, we’re telling parables; or other stories of the Bible; or themes of the Bible through this world—like our sandbox, essentially.

Landon:Jesus did it better—but hey, if we can throw in a talking bat—sure. Again, let’s—

Dave:There’s a talking bat?!

Perry:Yeah, that’s the scary creature we’ll talk about at the end.

Ann:That’s the magical creature?

Perry:Yeah, Landon had to put some magical creatures in there.

Dave:That’s fun! And anybody that knows the prodigal story—and you know what’s exciting?—if they don’t know the story, this is going to make them, not only learn it through this, but they’re going to go back to the Bible and read it. It’s full of family dynamics—father-son—and that could relate to father-daughter, mother-daughter; it’s all there.

I want to ask you personally about your life. There’s the younger son, who’s walked away with his father’s inheritance, and wasted all in wild living. He comes back, full of shame and guilt. Ever been there?—either one of you?

Landon:Oh, yeah. Like I said last time, I resonate with both sons.

Dave:By the way, the older son is full of pride; so take either side of that: either one of you?

Perry:I can definitely relate to the—like I said last time—the older son and feeling like, “Oh, I’m not as bad as these guys,”—looking around at the people around you. I remember I had this friend in high school—we were best buds—but then, I remember he started doing things that I wasn’t okay with or I knew were wrong. This is, again, with me without maybe that relationship with Jesus; maybe, just the legalism leading the way.

I remember having conversations, where I was like, “Oh, if your parents knew, they’d be so mad at you!” It’s the things that led—that came out of me—were what I was believing that I needed to be. It really damaged our friendship. Thankfully, we were able to work out that friendship a little bit. But that’s kind of when I started to realize: “Wait a second; I’m really critical of others, because I feel like I need to be perfect.”

Dave:And you hinted at something that I wonder if both of you have ever felt the expectations of your parents. Your parents in full-time ministry; did you feel that?

Perry:Yeah, whether they did it intentionally or not—I’m certain they didn’t do it intentionally—but whether it was things they did, or just the fact that I was a child of two missionaries, it definitely played a role on the pressure that you feel to perform.

I know we’ll talk about this too—we have a clip lined up—but I looked up to my dad a lot. I thought my dad was the coolest; still do, to be fair.

Dave: He’s probably listening.

Perry:He’s probably listening: “Hey, Dad; I won’t say anything embarrassing.” I really wanted to be like my dad. I’m a quality-time love language, so I just loved hanging out with him; wanted to be like him.

He was always someone who didn’t show a lot of emotion—didn’t let things bother him—but also, didn’t show a lot of vulnerability, growing up. I thought what it took to be a man was to just be calm, cool, collected—be funny when it matters, which is all the time—and then, just not let things rattle you. I would see that dynamic with my parents. That just led to me putting up this wall—that I think my parents probably experienced from me, growing up—of like: “I’m fine,” “I’m good,” “I don’t need any help,” “I don’t need to talk about my feelings; I’m good.”

Ann:You’re saying, from the outside, you did look good.

Perry:Yep.

Ann:They probably had nothing to worry about.

Perry:Yeah.

Ann:How’s that working with your marriage now with Brooke?

Perry:I’ll tell you what: that part of my life ended before—thankfully, honestly, in dating—I started realizing: “Well, this is not going to work.” Brooke definitely has played a huge role in me being able to be more emotionally aware, emotionally mature, vulnerable.

We really put that in for both of us—our relationships with our parents—into this dynamic between Orrick and his father, Yannick the Chief. We can talk about that more; we have a clip lined up that goes into that.

Landon:And just to set up this clip: yesterday, we heard the big bad guy attack the city; he’s got them surrounded. They’ve got to figure out what to do, how they’re going to survive. The chief, whose name is Yannick, gathers the elders; they make this plan. Orrick wanted to contribute; but his dad, the chief, Yannick didn’t really take to it too much. This scene is sort of their post-discussion of that elder meeting. Let’s listen in.

[The Road to Kaeluma Clip]

Yannick:Your idea was well-thought. In time, I may have you brief the messenger on what you know of the tunnels.

Orrick:But couldn’t I? Yes, father.

Yannick:I have not ventured into the heart of Mount Gulder since before I

was chief.

Orrick:I know, father, you’ve told me this story hundreds of times. You

defeated the great spider; and now, Pahar, is the most successful

mining town in the great continent.

Yannick:But you still fail to understand the importance of that story, Orrick!

My victory cemented me as chief. If you are to be chief one day,

you’ll be measured by how you respond in situations such as this.

That was a time to fight; now is a time to be prudent. You

understand?

Orrick:I guess.

Yannick:Good. Now, let us clear our minds of this business.

You will make me proud one day.

Orrick:One day?

Yannick:I know you will! Now, I must see to another matter before nightfall.

Orrick:Okay, see you later.

Yannick:Goodnight son.

Orrick:“Make me proud one day”? What does he mean: “…one day”?

I need some fresh air. Maybe, I’ll go check on Barbery.

Barbery! [Bird shrieks] There’s my favorite falcon. Oh, you look

hungry.

What more do I have to do to make him proud of me, Barbery? I

train hours every day. I sit through countless lessons,

meetings.

[Barbery shrieks] Oh, I know how you feel, right now, buddy. He

liked my plan; why not just send me? And then, why would he tell me that story about when he went into the mountain? Does he not have the confidence to send me, or does he want me to take initiative and just go myself? Maybe, that’s what he was saying!

Well, if I’m ever going to be chief, I have to do what he did and be brave. This is my chance to make him proud by, literally, doing what he did. I can go through and take the message to the Leboa clan myself! [Barbery shrieks] [Laughter] I’ll be alright—I’ve been through before—well, most of the way, at least. [Barbery shrieks] [Laughter] Thanks, Barbery. I’ll be back before you know it. [Barbery shrieks]

[Studio]

Dave:So is Barbery—

Perry:Barbery, the falcon.

Dave:Barbery, the falcon, reminds me of R2-D2.

Perry:There has to be a little mascot—animal or robot—I guess.

Dave:Somebody you can talk to.

Landon:You can purchase your Barbery falcon at FamilyLife.com/Barbery.

Ann:I’m curious, Landon, did you ever feel the pressure to make your parents feel proud?

Landon:Yeah, the household I grew up in was one of obedience and structure, which is all good. But I think I heaped pressure on myself too—not only walk in spiritual, obedient, godly ways—also, to do well in school. It’s actually something that my parents and I have talked about a lot, and feeling like I had to do “X” to make them proud.

It’s actually kind of a cool—this wasn’t planned or anything—but my parents are big fans of the show. My dad knew I was coming on; and he just said, “Hey, I’m praying for you today; and I’m so proud of you son.” Just to hear those words—just because of who I am as his kid—is a very redemptive thing to hear, and it means a lot.

Dave:Isn’t that interesting?—the power of a parent’s affirmation. You’re tearing up.

Landon:Yeah, the power of being on FamilyLife Today.

Dave:Yeah, but I mean your dad didn’t say, “I will be proud of you.” You guys wrote—

Ann:—or “I hope I can be proud”; because, as parents, we have some words that we can use—and it can feel—and, maybe, be manipulation. I can even remember saying to one of our sons—makes me teary, thinking about it, too—even when he was in high school, I knew that he wasn’t making the best choices. I remember saying: “Do you know how proud we are of you?” “Do you know how proud I am of you?” He would say, “No, I don’t.” I’m thinking, “I tell you this, all the time!”; in my head, I’m thinking it.

It reaffirmed he needs me to say it over and over, especially if it seems like he’s not making the right decisions. That doesn’t determine who he is; that doesn’t determine if I’m proud of him. I’m proud of him because of who he is in Christ: “As my own son, I love who you are”; but that’s always tricky, with parents, when we feel like these guys are messing up, like the prodigal son’s father!

Has anybody ever thought about the father, lying in bed, thinking, “What did I do wrong to make this child eat the slop of the pigs?” I would’ve been the parent, lying in bed, thinking, “Lord, what have I done wrong?” Do guys think that?

Dave:Oh, of course,—

Ann:You do?

Dave:—a thousand percent.

Landon:You touched on something, that I also don’t want to miss either, is

what you said: “It’s like I’ve got to say it over, and over, and over.”

Ann:Yes.

Landon:That’s true because—if my dad is listening, I don’t want him to think that I don’t recognize all the times that he said he is proud of me—he has. I think you got to keep saying it because for, some reason as a kid, I still felt like I had to earn it. That’s kind of what we’re putting into this story; we want parents to dig a little deeper—even than: “I’m proud of you,”—but why? It’s because of the identity that can’t be taken away.

Ann:—not because of your performance, necessarily.

Dave:—or your obedience.

Landon:It’s not just because I had a good basketball game and my dad—again, I’m not throwing my dad under the bus—but just opening up the doors for that vulnerable conversation, which we wrote into the story, later on.

Perry:And kids are sometimes just a little thick. I was thick; it took the 112th time it was said for it to finally click.

Ann:Parents—are you hearing this, parents?—we need to say it over, and over, and over. It’s never/you can never overdo it.

Dave:And some of it’s because the second they walk out of the house, they’re getting bombarded with a different message. They’re not being told by everybody at the school, “Oh, you’re amazing!” They’re told, “You’re nothing; I’m better.” They come in, and the home should be the parents’—relationally, should be—“This is a place I feel loved more than anywhere on the planet.”

Ann:—”regardless of my performance.”

Dave:—which is the story of the prodigal. If there’s anything this thing is—and I know you captured it—“There’s nothing you could do to make me love you more. There’s nothing you could do to make me love you less.” That’s the grace of God that parents have to, somehow, communicate. You have this tool to help them do it.

Landon:Yeah; and on that note—it is interesting; the scene we just heard—Orrick didn’t get that from his dad. So then, he goes, “Now, I have to find it somewhere else; and I have to do it.”

Like you said, people are going out into school: “I’m going to look for approval somewhere else”; and that’s when sin comes. In Orrick’s case, he kind of explores his own way of doing it. We’ll see the consequences of that as the story goes on.

Perry:If we were to ask Yannick in that scene, and say, “Do you love Orrick because of who he is?” I’m sure he would’ve said, “Absolutely, yes.”

Dave:Yes.

Perry:But what Orrick is hearing is: “He’s not proud of me. I haven’t done enough to earn it yet, and I’ve got to go. This is my chance to do that.” He goes out and takes it into his own hands. How dangerous it may be; we’ll find out if you keep listening to the show.

Dave:Yeah, I know that two of our sons—probably, all three—felt this. I’ll tell you: Ann probably didn’t miss it; I missed it, as a parent—understanding them, feeling pressure—you said you felt it to live up to our expectations. Some of it was we’re in ministry, pastor of a big church.

Ann:They’re PKs.

Dave:I remember one of them said to us one day—again, now they’re adults; and they’re saying it years later—but it’s like, “Yeah, I stopped drinking in high school just because I didn’t want to ruin your reputation.” Were like, “You didn’t stop drinking because it was wrong?!” “No, it was really like your reputation’s something I could crush.”

Perry:Did you notice that creating distance?

Dave:Yeah.

Perry: —as the result of pressure?

Dave:They felt this pressure—and I don’t know if they felt it from us—but they felt it. I was like, “I don’t want you to feel that! I don’t want you to drink, but I don’t want you to feel that pressure.” And yet, we do that as parents in many ways, especially in a Christian household.

Ann:And since we’re on this topic—fessing up, as parents—of what to do, and what not to do, and what we shouldn’t have done,—

Perry:And neither of us are parents, by the way; so let’s throw that out.

Dave:It’s amazing you captured this so well, not even being a parent.

Perry:It’s a grain of salt.

Landon:Thanks.

Dave:Seriously.

Ann:I think what will happen, as a result of what you guys have created, are great discussions. When great discussions happen, I think it’s when kids can feel safe enough to share what they really feel: maybe, their insecurities; or maybe, some things their parents are doing that’s hurting them, or making them feel insecure or feeling pressure.

One of the things one of our sons told me is: “Mom, when I tell you things—maybe, that have hurt me or that you’ve done—I don’t want it to become about you. Sounds so weird, but what would happen…” I was like, “Oh, no; I’m so sorry!” And then, I would overexplain why I did what I did when what he was really looking for is just for me to say, “Oh, I’m so sorry. I can see how you would feel like that. Tell me more.”

I think, as parents: “Don’t get lost in the part of what you’ve done. Still make it about them so they can tell you more of what they’re feeling. Otherwise, they’ll feel like, ‘Oh, it hurt her so much; I’m never going to tell them another thing.’” Does that make sense?

Landon:Is that hard, as a parent?—I mean, this is asking, as a kid. I can’t imagine having a kid do something; but then, also, you’re feeling all those things you’re talking about. You don’t want to project them back onto your kids; I am assuming you have to go to the Lord with it, but that can’t be easy.

Perry:Are you saying ownership over what they’re feeling?—like you feel responsible in that way?

Ann:Yeah; I think it is hard, because we know we’re not perfect; we did our best. I’m so glad they had the guts to tell us, because I think it’s making us better. It’s sharpening us, just as the Word talks about.

Dave:I think your sons—it means a lot to the son or daughter—to hear their parents say, “I’m sorry; I was wrong. I didn’t know I was wrong, but I hear it now.”

Ann:—and “I can see what you mean.”

Dave:—and” I want to do better.” It’s almost like: “Help me know how to do better.” Whether you’re 15 or 25 or 35; it’s a moment of vulnerability. You talk about a moment to close the gap of the bridge or the wall between us; it’s when a parent owns up to: “I’m sorry.” Same thing can happen when the son or daughter does—but man, when a parent, who’s the one who’s in control and has the power, shifts that power to say, “This isn’t about me; it’s about you. I hurt you, and I’m sorry. I’m not going to do that again,”—that’s powerful.

Ann:I think, as these discussions continue with our kids—if your kids fess up to something, like, “I just want you to know I did this,”—take a breath; say a prayer; maybe, take a day—to not freak out.

Dave:Don’t freak out. You can freak out in the bedroom later.

Ann:And then, say to them, “I am so happy that you told me. I want to know more of what…”; because it’s not about the behavior. It’s what created the behavior; what’s going on inside—they’re hurting for some reason—and get to that.

I think it’s pretty cool that you guys have created a discussion guide to go with this whole thing.

Dave:You help parents, and sons and daughters, have talks; right?

Perry:Yeah. Well, I think like you’re saying with your response to that—to the kid coming with something that’s going on—they’re stepping out in vulnerability. Hopefully, they don’t have to be the only one who’s doing that; but your response can create distance or closeness, one or the other.

We’re trying to help make it easier by creating a space of vulnerability with the discussion guide so that neither really has to take so much of a leap. We try to frame it so that parents, hopefully, will lead the way. Landon, if you could share an example of a question, maybe, based on that.

Landon:Yeah, I think just to double click the structure of this discussion guide is: “Let’s ask parents a question first. Allow them to lead with vulnerability”; and there’s discretion to how much you share. But then, that will, hopefully, open up a space where the kids can do that.

In Episode One, we ask parents to share a story about a time when you wanted to make someone proud: “What did you do?” “How did it work?” And then, parents, we encourage you to ask your kids: “Do you sometimes feel pressure to make me proud?” and “In what ways do you feel that pressure?” and “Man, we can just talk about it.”

Ann:That’s good.

Landon:I feel like that’d be a pretty powerful conversation.

Dave:That’s great.

We’re going to get to hear one more clip—but let me tell you this—if you want it, you can get it at FamilyLife.com/RoadTrip. You don’t want to miss it, and you’ll get the study guide and the conversations.

Ann:Will they get that with it?—the study guide with it?

Perry:Yeah. It’ll be all available; all easy to access.

Ann:Yes! That’s awesome.

Dave:Alright; we’re going to tease you with one more clip. What’s this

one?

Landon:Yeah; we talked about, when you don’t necessarily have the approval, you look for it elsewhere. Orrick takes his own plan. He goes into the heart of Mount Gulder, which is the big mountain right by. He runs into a little bit of a problem with his friend, Vera. Let’s hear what happens.

[The Road o Kaeluma Clip]

Vera:I hate to break it to you, but that looks like a dead end to me.

Orrick:[Sounds of moving large debris] Not anymore; follow me. [Sounds of struggling through the mountain.]

Vera:Really, Orrick? You couldn’t have made a bigger—

Orrick and Vera:Whoa!

Vera:[In awe] The stone! It’s—

Orrick:[In awe]—everywhere. [Laughter]

Vera:Here; grab some.

Orrick:Yeah. [Sounds of lifting stones.] [Sound of rock falling]

Vera:What was that?

Orrick:[Stuttering] My torch is out; pass me your flint.

Vera:I can’t see. Hold on.

Orrick:Hurry. [Sounds of deep heavy breathing and deep voice]

Vera:What is that?!

Orrick:I don’t know.

[Studio]

Dave:Once again, that is The Road to Kaeluma, produced by Family Life

and the Jesus film. All five episodes are available at FamilyLife.com/RoadTrip. Get it now—seriously—get it now.

FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife®, a Cru® Ministry.

Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.

If you’ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?

Copyright © 2025 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.

www.FamilyLife.com