FamilyLife Today®

The Secret Ingredient to a Marvelous Marriage: Bobby & Rebecca Markham, Christian & Maddie Villafane

The secret ingredient to a successful marriage isn’t complex after all. Bobby and Rebecca Markham and Christian and Maddie Villafane reveal how physical proximity, shared experiences, and mundane moments all matter.

FamilyLife Today
FamilyLife Today
The Secret Ingredient to a Marvelous Marriage: Bobby & Rebecca Markham, Christian & Maddie Villafane
Loading
/

Show Notes

About the Guest

Photo of Bobby and Rebecca Markham

Bobby and Rebecca Markham

Bobby and Rebecca Markham have been married since 1999 and have five wonderful children and one son-in-law. Bobby served as a student pastor from 2002-2019 in Arkansas before he and Rebecca joined staff with FamilyLife in 2020 and relocated to Orlando, Florida.

Photo of Christian and Maddie Villafane

Christian and Maddie Villafane

Christian and Maddie Villafane met in 2018 at church and got married in 2022. They share a love for serving in youth ministry and spending quality time together, whether it’s enjoying a cozy movie night, getting competitive over card games, or tackling house projects! Their dog, Otis, occasionally supervises their adventures—though his real talent lies in being adorable. They hope to continue doing ministry together as long as the Lord sees fit!

Episode Transcript

FamilyLife Today® with Dave and Ann Wilson – Web Version Transcript

This content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.

The Secret Ingredient to a Marvelous Marriage

Guests:Bobby & Rebecca Markham, Christian & Maddie Villafane

From the series:The Secret Ingredient to a Marvelous Marriage (Day 1 of 1)

Air date:January 31, 2025

Ann:I think one of the best things we’ve ever done for our marriage is go through small group material on marriage with other couples.

Dave:Oh yeah, no question. One of the best things, and we still do it.

Ann:Yes.

Dave:And right now we have a 25 percent off discount for you to use some of our great FamilyLife resources like the new Art of Marriage™. You could get that, or you could even get our Vertical Marriage and just take some couples through it. It literally will change their life. But you ready for this? It’s going to change your life as well. So here’s how you get it. Just go to FamilyLifeToday.com. You can pick up any resource that you want there and let it bless you and bless others.

Ann:Twenty-five percent off; don’t miss that.

Shaunti:You are the best friends with the people you see the most often. And so one of the factors that makes a really happy marriage is just hanging out together and just literally spending time together.

Ann:Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Ann Wilson.

Dave:And I’m Dave Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

Ann:You know what I like to do with you?

Dave:Oh boy. That could go a lot of different places.

Ann:I like to hang out with you. You’re my favorite hangout person.

Dave:I agree.

Ann:Really?

Dave:I am my favorite hangout person too. No, you are. No question. No question. And I love hanging with guys, and I love playing ball and doing different things. Music. There’s nobody better in the world. I’d rather spend time with you.

Ann:I feel like that too.

Dave:Hang out. So why are we talking about hanging out?

Ann:Because today we’re going to listen to Brian Goins and Shaunti Feldhahn. They have a podcast called Married With Benefits. It’s also on YouTube.

Dave:We’re actually going to watch a clip.

Brian has been interviewing Shaunti about a book she wrote years ago based on her research. She’s a Harvard trained researcher, so you got to love this. She sat down and said, “Okay, I want to find the best marriages in the world. And she calls them Highly Happy Couples. It’s a long story how she figured out these are the best in the world, but they’re the best and they’re super satisfied with their marriage. So she wrote a book on it and said there’s eight surprising secrets that these couples do that we can learn from. And so we’ve been spending time listening to Brian and Shaunti talk about this on their podcast that we host at FamilyLife. So today—

Ann:And this is actually season four of their podcast, and you can watch it on YouTube. So today—

Dave:I hope you watch us on YouTube because the couples we have in studio are pretty good-looking couples.

Ann:They’re pretty great couples, and it’s good to see their faces.

Dave:Yeah. We’ll introduce them in a second after the clip because we’re all going to watch the clip together. You’re going to listen to the clip or hopefully watch it with us.

Ann:Part of the clip.

Dave:And then we’re going to talk about, well, okay, how’s this impact our own marriages? And the clip is about Highly Happy Couples Hang Out. And if you don’t know what that means, neither do I. So let’s watch it and find out.

[Recorded Message]

Brian:Highly happy couples hang out.

Shaunti:Yes.

Brian:And why that word, hang out? It feels so nebulous. Let me just be honest. When I saw the title of that, I immediately just pictured me and Jen in a basement with a couch with a bag of chips watching football.

Shaunti:Awesome.

Brian:You feel like that’s hanging out? That qualifies—

Shaunti:One hundred percent.

Brian:Because here’s what we’ve heard.

Shaunti:Yes.

Brian:We’ve heard this, and I’ve said this at marriage conferences—

Shaunti:I probably have too then.

Brian:It is about, “Hey, you need to schedule your next date night.” There’s this date night pressure. And I’ve always felt, when I heard that, honestly, I would feel this sense of pressure. I’ve got to plan a date night every week. I’ve got to get the restaurant. I think about money.

Shaunti:Of course.

Brian:I think about babysitting. I think about all those things that go with it. And then if I miss a week, I start feeling shame.

Shaunti:Like a failure.

Brian:—a failure. And then it’s, we miss two, it’s like, “Oh, it doesn’t really matter. This doesn’t work.” So I think there’s a lot of people that feel that weekly date night fail.

Shaunti:So yes, good way of putting it. And listen, let me say for the record, I love the idea of date nights. Date nights are a great thing, so I’m a fan of that.

Brian:Okay, so you’re not saying this is not either or.

Shaunti:This really isn’t a forced choice. The issue that what we found in this study is that first and foremost happy couples, the happiest couples tended to treat each other like best friends. That was even more than treating each other as their married partner or their co-parent, they treated each other mostly like best friends. And so then you start looking at, so what are the primary predictors of friendship? What makes good friendship? And when you look at the primary predictors of friendship, and we ask people to guess, we’ll stand on stage. Jeff and I will do this at a marriage event. We’ll be like, “Okay, everybody guess it.”

Brian:I’ll do it.

Shaunti:Okay, you guess.

Brian:We have similar interests.

Shaunti:People always guess that.

Brian:We tend to like the same type of affinities. I’m just going back to affinities. That’s all I’ve got. What else? What else would they say?

Shaunti:People always guess similar temperaments or complimentary temperaments. That makes really good friendships or similar values. All those things are really good. It’s not like those are bad. Those are good things, but those are distant compared to the number one predictor of friendship, which is geographic proximity.

Brian:Oh, wow.

Shaunti:And you’re just the best friends with the people you see the most often. And we all know that’s true because we’ve all had really close friends where one of us moved away and you still love that person and you’re still friends. You still want to talk and whatever, but there’s not that intimacy. There’s not that day-to-day closeness in the same way. It works the exact same way in marriage. You are the best friends with the people you see the most often. And so one of the factors that makes a really happy marriage is just hanging out together and just literally spending time together.

Brian:I’ve heard it said the first thing to go in marriage is politeness. I wonder if the first thing to go in marriage is just proximity. Even though we’re living under the same roof, we can find all kinds of things to fill up the space between us.

Shaunti:Yes, absolutely.

Brian:And just get busy. Just kids, job, all that kind of stuff adds in and suddenly it feels like we’re more like business partners than best friends.

Shaunti:And that is what you’re describing is what so many couples are trying to solve because you love your spouse, you care about them, you enjoy your marriage, but you want to go from good to great or you want to go from so-so and struggling to great.

Brian:Yeah. Wow. And when you think about that hanging out, it does, it feels nebulous. And there might be people feeling some anxiety about this. “Okay, is this something else I’ve got to add into my life? Is this something else?” I could feel people that are in the military that have deployments.

Shaunti:Yes, absolutely.

Brian:I could feel entrepreneurs that are a super busy time. And so just give me examples of what hanging out is. Well, you mentioned some of them, but just give me some high-level examples and we’ll talk about some of the challenges.

Shaunti:Literally—well see, here’s the thing. It could be almost anything. It’s almost anything that gives you a chance to interact with one another. And sometimes this can be hanging out over the phone because your spouse is in another state for business or over zoom because your spouse is deployed—

Brian:Yeah.

Shaunti:—or whatever. These are literally—like for me and Jeff, we have crazy schedules. We travel a lot. I’m often traveling without him. And when our kids were young, this was something we would have to juggle. And it’s a little bit easier now that our youngest has rudely left for college. But this is one of those areas for us, we realized the easiest thing to do. We would get the kids off to school and we would sit for 20 minutes and have coffee together. Sometimes a little bit more than that, sometimes less. And it just sort of was like, hey, we’re having coffee, we’re reading the news, letting our brains, we got the craziness of the kids out the door. Let’s let our brains just relax for a minute. And it might literally be that we sit there, side by side and never talk to one another because we’re reading the news or something that’s going on, or I’m reading a book. But most of the time, because we’re sitting there, it’s like, did you see that thing that happened? And the,

Brian:It’s almost like you’re giving yourself the space for something to happen.

Shaunti:Yes. Absolutely.

Brian:And too often we don’t even give ourselves the space for that.

Shaunti:Absolutely.

Brian:Or we feel like this pressure to create the space, the weekly date night where it’s like, okay, now we feel pressure to have to perform a little bit or have the deep conversations.

Shaunti:Because now is the time.

Brian:Now is the only time.

Shaunti:Yeah, exactly.

Brian:And so what I hear you saying, it may not be quality time like we would think of couple quality time as we’re having great conversations. We’re doing things that we don’t normally talk about, normally do and all that. You’re saying—

Shaunti:Which is great.

Brian:Which is good but you’re also saying quantity is just as much as

Shaunti:Quantity is—well, the thing about quantity, even if it’s just a little bit of time here and there like in a lot of spaces, like driving to the grocery store.

Brian:—running errands.

Shaunti:Right. It gives you a chance to be able to be like, “You know what? I forgot to tell you that thing that happened at the office the other day. My boss told me I did a really good job at that report and that made me so happy.” “Really? Tell me about it.” Okay, five-minute conversation, but you’ve caught one another up on things that are important about your life. And that kind of stuff happens more naturally amongst best friends. When best friends are just, “Hey, let’s get together and go out to dinner,” “Let’s get together for coffee,” “Let’s go for a hike,” “Let’s go”… It kind of naturally happens that way.

[Studio]

Dave:Okay, so highly happy couples hang out. Now we know what hangout means, and now we’re going to find out what that looks like in real life. We’ve got Christian and Maddie Villafane sitting to my left; been married two and a half years. Maddie’s been on staff with FamilyLife, and we’ve got Bobby and Rebecca Markham sitting on the other side; married 25 years, 5 kids, dogs, cats. I don’t even know.

Bobby:There is a dog in our house.

Rebecca:There is a dog.

Dave:There is a dog.

Ann:And nine people are living in your house.

Bobby:Yes.

Rebecca:Yes.

Ann:Including a father and an aunt.

Bobby:Yes.

Ann:That’s a lot going on and a lot of mouths to feed Rebecca, and Bobby

Dave:And on staff with FamilyLife and used to be a rapper I hear.

Bobby:Oh my goodness.

Dave:Is that right?

Bobby:That’s old me, dead me; that’s gone.

Ann:But are you resonating with this topic, this idea of hanging out? You are, Rebecca, you’re shaking your head.

Dave:Rebecca is really shaking her head.

Rebecca:Oh yeah.

Dave:What’s that mean?

Rebecca:With all of the ups and downs that we’ve had in our marriage, this is one thing that I think that God has helped us to do a little better. So we have a regular date night that’s not always go out on a date, date night on Tuesday nights. If we can’t get to date night on Tuesday nights, we reschedule it. We do it maybe Wednesday, Thursday, whatever day we can get to it.

Dave:But every week?

Rebecca:Every week we do something like that. And it can be watching a movie, it can be reading a book together, it can be taking a walk. It can be all kinds of different things.

Ann:It’s hanging out.

Rebecca:Yeah, and then we have little tack on things throughout other times in our day that we just enjoy being in the same space.

Ann:That’s good.

Dave:How about you guys?

Ann:Okay, Maddie, Christian.

Maddie:We learned very quickly that when you’re dating, it’s so easy. There’s that obvious built in. You want to get to know each other. That’s really the only time you can hang out with just y’all. We’re both living different places and we have jobs, and we got married and it was like, “Well, what’s the point of date night? I’m with you all the time.” I see him every morning and night. So yeah, we learned quickly, date night takes work and intentionality, and you really have to schedule it to make sure it gets done. Otherwise it can get buried in just the thick of life and everything going on. We don’t even have kids yet. So we’re trying to practice that early.

Ann:I think what I had when we first got married, and Dave and I have always enjoyed being together, but when Dave would say, “Ann, Ann, come in here, watch this show. “Ann, watch. You have got to watch this game or watch this interview.” This is when our kids were little and I would say things like, “Are we going to talk while we watch it?” He’d be like, “No”—

Dave:We’re just going to watch it.

Ann:—”we’re just going to watch it.” And I’m thinking, “Then we’re accomplishing nothing.” And then our boys would start saying, “Mom, come down and watch us play video games.” I’m like, “Well, can we talk while you play?” They’re like, “No, that will wreck it.” I had no idea this hanging out because I’m very, what are we accomplishing? I’m very driven. Is it going to make us better? And Dave can be chill, and I can be so intense.

And so I remember, I forget who it was that talked about this importance of hanging out shoulder to shoulder, not even necessarily talking but watching something because Dave, on our date nights, he’d always felt like, here, you guys can tell I’m intense. I’m talking about how are we doing? How do you feel about me? And poor Dave is scared. You were mushy gushy. I was like a bulldozer, Rebecca. And so for Dave, the hanging out piece sounded probably way better Dave than—

Dave:Well, thank God for Shaunti Feldhahn because that was actually in another book she wrote, For Women Only.

Ann:Men like to play.

Dave:Men like to play and they just like you to be there. I remember, and also Emerson Eggerichs wrote about this, but some guys are like, “Hey, I’m working in the garage, and can you just come out and watch?” And the wife’s like, “You want me to watch?” And it just means the world. And again, I’m not saying it’s not the same for women, but for guys, I know that I love hanging out with Ann doing nothing, and I could be watching a game, and I didn’t know it until I just watched that clip. Why do I love it? Proximity; that’s proximity.

Ann:It has been a really good lesson for me to learn because it was making no sense, but what I didn’t realize, I needed it. I needed just to chill. I needed just to watch, and I felt guilty for it. Some of my own brokenness.

Dave:And I would just add this, she would like to hang out with her doing stuff like helping around the house if she’s cooking. She’s always saying to me, I love it if you came in here and cooked with me. I’m like, “I would hate that. Absolutely hate it.” I just love that you—

Ann:“Come out and let’s do yard work together.” He goes, “That sounds like the worst possible idea on a Saturday afternoon.”

Dave:But the truth is, I should, and it’ll help our marriage because we’re hanging out. Is that how it works in your marriages? Any of that resonate?

Bobby:Oh yeah. We’re all about hanging out. I feel like my love language is spending time like that. It doesn’t have to be anything important. It’s just being together, doing that very thing. And so I was very intentional about just setting aside time for Rebecca and I to enjoy one another’s company. And it can be super simple. We don’t have a lot of money to do a date night out somewhere and pay for an expensive meal all the time or go do an activity. We’ve kind of carved space to where yes, we will do those things, but even on Tuesday night, their kids know the door’s going to get closed, it’s going to get locked and we’re going to hang out. For a long time we sat and read Nana Dolce’s book The Seed of the Woman. We’d read a chapter of that and then we would watch something. One time I surprised her with the idea of let’s drive around town and let’s just get French fries at every fast-food place and rate them. And so we went drive through to drive through. We were so full of French fries.

Ann:This is in one night, you did this?

Bobby:Yes.

Ann:That’s so fun.

Dave:I just got to know, who won?

Bobby:Oh my goodness. I knew you were going to ask that because—

Dave:Culvers, Shake Shack, McDonald’s?

Bobby:Well, we went to the ones that were local to us, so there was some that got missed out and Wendy’s got an unfair deal because they gave us something really bad that night. But by the time we got to Arby’s and their little curly fries, we were like, “Oh my goodness, these are so good.” When you put them side by side.

Rebecca:They did not need sauce, just the fry. It was wonderful.

Bobby:But yeah, we just having fun doing things like that. Matter of fact, just a few days ago I cooked a meal for the whole family. That’s not normal guys, so don’t feel bad. But I cooked a meal for the family, but cooked a steak for Rebecca and I separate, and we ate separate from the family in our bedroom. We ate our steak and the rest of our food and then we came back down and enjoyed the family. And so just trying to find those intentional moments to sit together and hold hands or talk or just share the moment.

Ann:Rebecca, can you think of a favorite time that you guys just hung out and what that did to your heart?

Rebecca:Yeah. We have this blanket that we call our picnic blanket. And whenever our kids were little and we would finally get them off to bed, we would put out the picnic blanket and order a pizza where half of it was what I loved and half of it was what he loved. And we would use fancy glasses and just sit there—

Bobby:And candles.

Ann:And candles?

Rebecca:—and candles and watch something, even if it was just a goofball show or something like that, together and just enjoy that time.

Ann:What a good idea. And what did you feel when you were done with that hanging out time?

Rebecca:I felt like I was closer to him.

Ann:Isn’t that funny how that works?

Rebecca:Yeah, because we could have been doing anything in the middle of our day. I could have had a million dirty diapers or noses to wipe or whatever and he could have been doing all kinds of stuff in his job, but then at that point we were sitting together doing the same thing at the same time, enjoying life, just enjoying something together at the same place at the same time. And that mattered to me.

Ann:That’s beautiful.

Dave:I think people that are around FamilyLife have heard this concept a lot; date, right? I mean we say it at the Weekend to Remember. We put it in our book Vertical Marriage, that if you really want to thrive in your marriage, pray daily, date weekly, retreat annually. So I think it’s something we’re comfortable with. Do you think most couples date, married couples date?

Ann:Or hang out.

Dave:Or just hang out as a priority? Do you see that or do you think it’s something that’s sort of—

Ann:I’m interested, for you guys, Maddie and Christian, is that something that’s typical in your age group?

Christian:I think a lot of people in my age group, and I’ve talked to other friends who have married and honestly, in our first year of marriage we are—hanging out was different than how it is now. I had a lot more pride in the sense where if she’s watching her show, well then, she could stay in the room. I’ll go to the living room; I want to watch my show. And I think that definitely paints a picture of how our marriage went in our first year. That’s something I didn’t really think about.

Obviously, it wasn’t just that; it was a compilation of multiple things, but that alone where, you know what? It’s not really about me wanting to watch my show and then I would just go in the room and then even if I have my foot touching her foot, that it shows how we’re close with each other in the proximity that we were talking about earlier.

Ann:It’s true.

Christian:And sometimes I would even put headphones in, put my show on my phone—

Ann:But you were sitting next to—

Christian:—but we’re next to each other and we feel like she knows that she’s safe as well. It’s nighttime. She’s not just in bed alone. And just things like that also shows her, you know what, Christian’s actually also watching my show as well, and he also enjoys the things that I enjoy. And that’s also what pursuing each other looks like as well.

Ann:I remember this one time; I like war movies.

Dave:No idea what’s going to happen.

Ann:I love war movies.

Dave:She does.

Ann:Gladiator is one of my favorite movies. So I have these war movies, but then I like these period pieces guys, it’s so weird. So I’m like, I’m going to Downton Abbey by myself, and Dave says, “I’ll go with you.” I’m like, “Oh no, you are going to hate, and I mean hate this.” And you went, you got us popcorn. You probably went to the bathroom more than any other movie that you’ve been in.

Dave:I think I took a nap.

Ann:But there was something about him, you’re right of just sitting beside me suffering through it. There was something super sweet and giving about that.

Dave:We recently went to, I don’t remember what the movie was, sci-fi movie. I’m not a sci-fi guy. All my boys are like—

Ann:I also love sci-fi.

Dave:“Dad, don’t go to the movie.”

Ann:Star Wars, Lord of the Rings.

Dave:I literally like, I watched the first one so I would know what’s going on in the second one.

Ann:Oh, it’s Dune.

Dave:I was lost in the first ten minutes, and I sat there for three hours. I have no idea. She kept looking over. I could tell. She’s like, she’s so excited I was with her. She’s looking over; I just kept smiling. I pretended.

Ann:Yeah. I’m like, he’s loving this. And I’m explaining it like, “Oh, do you see this part because it’s so epic.” And then after—

Dave:We get in the car and I’m like, “I don’t remember a single name. I don’t know. What was that desert? Who were they? Why were they in the desert?” She’s like, “You didn’t understand?” “Nope. I just did it to be with you.”

Ann:That was so sweet.

Dave:I don’t know about that, but I know that we have a highly happy marriage because I went to Doom.

Ann:Yeah, you did.

Dave:And some of you probably think I’m an idiot because I can’t understand it but if you like it, good for you, but not for me.

Ann:Okay, Maddie, what’s been one of your best hangouts?

Maddie:Well, it’s easy for us in this season of life. We don’t have kids and weekends we spend pretty much all of our time together. But probably my favorite would be, it was actually when we were dating. We just came back from a mission trip, and we had been with each other for the last 17 days and with some other people in our group. So I was really getting to know him, but also, he was seeing the dirty, no shower, Maddie that didn’t have Diet Coke. We were the first to fly back and we went and got Chipotle and then we went to the beach. We watched the sunset and we just kind of hung out and talked to each other and just kind of recap the mission trip and all that God had done in our lives. And it was probably one of the first few times I remember falling in love with Christian. It was just this super sweet, almost movie like. We were just sitting in God’s creation, talking, getting to know each other.

Rebecca:That’s so sweet.

Ann:And sometimes you don’t even need to talk much. I remember Dave, we were sitting in Mexico, same kind of thing. We’re just sitting on the beach, the sun’s setting, not even talking, holding hands in our beach chairs.

Dave:No, we were touching feet. I’ll never forget that. That’s pretty good.

Ann:But I do remember, I remember saying to Dave, knowing everything about you, we’d been married 25 years, knowing everything about you, I would marry you again.

Dave:That’s not easy to say 20, 30 years in. A lot of couples don’t feel that. And I think one of the reasons we felt that, especially in that moment was our proximity was pull away from our life, put it on a calendar, figure out a way to even pay for it. It doesn’t have to be expensive, but it matters enough that you get away. And I don’t think you feel or say those words when everything’s run around you, but when you have a second to look at the sunset and just pause, you go, “I really do love this person, and I need to say that a lot.”

Ann:I like them, I like them.

Dave:Yeah.

Ann:I want to just do one pushback a little bit for the listener who’s thinking, “I don’t really like hanging out with my spouse. I would prefer not to be with them.” Any words of encouragement to them.

Maddie:The more you kind of fixate on the negatives about your spouse, the more you’ll see the negative things in them and the more you’ll think, “Ugh, I just don’t want to spend time with them.” That’s the lens you’re going to see them in. So until you start intentionally looking for: what do I love about them? What did I love when we were dating? What made me want to get married? Think back to that. Why did I fall in love with this person and what does this new season look like? What are the new things that I love about them? And the more you do that, I feel like gratitude begets more gratitude and you fall back in love. And that’s not the maybe fantastical love. “Oh, there’s nothing wrong with them. I just love spending every second.” But the real hard love of, yeah, I’m going to intentionally look for what is fun about my spouse or what do I enjoy about them? And choose to focus on that and choose to remember that we’re friends and that’s what marriage is about and that’s what keeps relationships alive.

Dave:Yeah, and just the only thing I would add to wrap up is if you don’t have something on your calendar that says we’re going to hang out, whether it’s a date or a coffee or a walking around the block, it doesn’t just happen. You’ve got to be intentional. And we say all the time at the Weekend to Remember, you’re either going to drift toward isolation or you’re going to work toward oneness. Hanging out is working toward oneness. And sometimes you put it on the calendar, even when “I don’t want to spend time with him,” “I’m not liking him right now. I don’t really want to hang out with him.” Force yourself to do it and something good could come out of it.

Ann:And I just have to add, and I will always add this is bring God into the picture. He’s with you. He loves you. He knows what you’re feeling. Talk to Him all about it every day. Lay your spouse, your marriage on the altar and say, “Jesus, I can’t do this. I need you.” And He answers.

Maddie:Amen.

Dave:FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife®, a Cru® Ministry. Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.

If you’ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?

Copyright © 2025 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.

www.FamilyLife.com