I Have a New Name: Hosanna Wong

Hosanna: I think growing up there were things I just didn't understand. Maybe I was taught wrong, maybe I assumed wrong, or maybe I just didn't get it. But people would say things like, “You have to find your identity in Christ.” And I'm in, I'm sold. Great. Can somebody show me how?

Shelby: What does that mean?

Hosanna: I do need it. I need it explained. And part of me thought like, what did I miss in church? Or what did I miss in school that everyone's like, amen, amen, amen? And I'm here just wanting someone to give me some tools, or they'll say things like you abide in Christ. That's how you know who you are. You find your identity in Christ by abiding in Christ. And I'm in like, you don't have to sell me. I'll abide. What does that look like?

Shelby: Somewhat anxious, always authentic. This is Real Life Loading…

I'm your host Shelby Abbott. And today I'm talking with author, spoken word artist, and fellow 49ers fan, that's right, Hosanna Wong. You may know her from her viral spoken word poem, I Have a New Name, or you might know her from the various books she's written, or from her time at the IF:Gathering.

Well truthfully, I felt right at home talking with her as soon as our conversation began.
Hosanna felt like a long lost friend to me, and you'll probably be able to tell that right from the beginning as we talk about sports and Marvel movies and then of course, Jesus.

You'll hear us talk about spiritual rhythms, like spending time with God, resting, and being in community, things like that. Those are the things that have been important habits for Hosanna. In fact, she's written all about those rhythms in her new book, You Are More Than You've Been Told. You should definitely check that out. This is a great conversation with my fellow Californian, Hosanna Wong.

Okay, so, I am actually from Merced, California.

Hosanna: Oh my goodness!
Shelby: I was born two hours from the San Francisco Bay Area. And I have been a 49ers fan my entire life, which is difficult living in Philadelphia. Because I don't see many games and there's a rare sighting of an SF on somebody's clothes.

What's, what's your favorite thing about San Francisco? Are you a 49ers fan? Do you cheer for them?

Hosanna: Yes, we are a faithful bunch. As you know, 49ers are faithful. Grew up in a big sports family. I actually grew up very close to Candlestick Park, which is where the Niners and the Giants used to play together, and so we're a big sports family, primarily basketball. So, we're big Warriors fans and growing up they weren't good. So, it was much different to say I was a Warriors fan growing up.

But our family has an outdoor church to people living without homes and battling with addiction. We had a partnership with the ballparks where we got their leftovers. So, we got all the leftover hot dogs, pizza after a game and we would bring it to our church and we would reheat it for the next day. All of our friends would always know, Oh, today's game day. Tomorrow we feast.

Shelby: We eat, yes. [Laughter]

Hosanna: So we're big, big fans, yes.

Shelby: That’s cool to meet another 49ers fan. It's a rare thing. I know, well obviously that about you now, but I had heard too, that you're a super huge comic book fan as well. I have opinions about this, because I was a mostly a DC comics person growing up and then Marvel movie fan and then just the opposite for DC and Marvel. Does that make sense?

Hosanna: Definitely makes sense. Same. I also live in this tension and I'm still processing it, bringing it to God, like, Lord, how would you like us to live?

Because growing up, I loved the DC universe so much more. I loved the intricate worlds. I loved Like the different storylines and specifically like Green Lantern, all the lanterns, all the rings. Like you could really do a deep dive. I just love the people outside of our world aspect. I loved the storylines and the villains so much more, but then Marvel movies greatly outdid DC Comics.

Shelby: I know, they're just incredible.

Hosanna: And I'm here for the entertainment, and I'm here for the fun. So, I don't know as much when I go to a Marvel movie of, “Oh man, well you know the comic book.” This is more true. This is more accurate. I don't have as much knowledge watching Marvel movies as I do DC movies, but I'm still believing in faith that DC is going to have a comeback.
Shelby: Yes well, Jamie Gunn took over the DC universe, and so I'm hopeful as well. And his first movie apparently is going to be a Superman movie.

Hosanna: That's what I heard. We could use a great Superman movie. I'm going to be curious how much elements he takes from his Marvel experience and brings into the DC world, or if he'll try to stay true to characters for the comic books, but I'm believing.

Shelby: Yes, I am too. I was so excited for Man of Steel when it came out, and I watched the movie and I was like, not sure if that was a good movie or not. It was one of those like disappointment comes from unmet expectations, and I had high expectations for that movie. It just like it made me feel some kind of way.

Hosanna: And that's what I've learned. I've learned to go to DC with like no expectations, keep expectations low. But Marvel, it's just incredible with especially the Avengers movies. When you think about like End Game and you think about these cinematic experiences, It's hard to beat.

Shelby: Do you have a favorite Marvel movie? Because I can name my top three Marvel movies I thought about it though.

Hosanna: Okay, you've thought about it, yes. I have nothing on the fly. But I could say like what I naturally watch when I'm like, “Oh, I'm having a hard day or a long week or I'm exhausted or I'm sick.” I'm sick. So I'm sick so my husband will be like, all right, she's sick. We're putting on End Game. End Game is just so beautiful and profound.

I've seen end game probably the most, but I'll also say like my feel good - I love Ant Man One and Two, so much. And it's in San Francisco, so there's like a vibe. So those surprised me. I had no expectations.

Shelby: Yes, me too.

Hosanna: I loved those and I have to give it to the previous Spider Man movie too.
There was something about the brilliance of the previous, as well as. the nostalgia of everyone's Spider Man. It was like, I was very emotional in the theater. I was like, why is this so powerful? Why do I feel like I'm having a church service right now?

So those are probably like, if I'm not trying to be like a critic about certain things, but what I naturally put on for a good time. I'd say those. What are yours?

Shelby: Again, very much overlap. My number one is Captain America Winter Soldier, the espionage kind of aspect of it. It was really, really good. Number two is End Game for me, and then number three is Spider Man No Way Home. So, we overlap quite a bit.

Hosanna: Yes.

Shelby: Just really quality films. I think the TV shows are starting to muddy up the waters a bit. I didn't like Secret Invasion as much as I wanted to - the Nick Fury episodes.

Hosanna: Yes. When those started, I wondered how much stock do I need to put in this for storylines for the movie? How much do I need to know? And I started when they first started coming out with them, keeping up. And then I wasn't able to keep up with all of them. It's like a whole other full time job. It's not a hobby. It's a lifestyle.

Shelby: Yes. Well, I could talk to you about this for a long time, but we probably should move on to like--

Hosanna: People love sports and Marvel and Jesus. [Laughter]

Shelby: We can love all three things.

Hosanna: This is a very specific Venn diagram of people.

Shelby: So, Hosanna, besides sports and superheroes, you also love writing and performing spoken word poetry. You recently released a new spoken word called I Have a New Name that's about the names God has given us, specifically from Scripture. So, what were you going through when you wrote that? Like, what did that season of your life look like?

Hosanna: Yes, really chill, really calm and normal and happy.

Shelby: Really? Wow. That's not what I was expecting at all.

Hosanna: I'm sure people would love to hear about that. No. I grew up doing spoken word poetry because of our family's outreach to people living on the streets, without homes and battling with addiction. All my friends on the streets did spoken word poetry. It was not different. It was not unique. Everyone did it.

I just naturally learned how to do it. And that's how I learned how to communicate with my friends what we had in common. But I Have a New Name came out of a season that wasn't a great season. It was one of the most painful seasons of my life, of my marriage. I lost who I was. We had a season of financial loss, relational loss, physical loss. The people who I thought would stay didn’t, the people who I thought would defend me didn't, and everything that I had of built my life on and found my identity in and my value in and my worth in was no longer there.

Shelby: Crumbled, yes.

Hosanna: I wasn't the same person. My husband didn't recognize me. My friends never heard from me. I really crumbled. I got disconnected from God and from myself. I think that's a place that I thought was rare and crazy, but now I feel is more common than I thought.

That some of us have given our lives to Jesus. So, we've already made that one choice. But still throughout our lives, there's things that happen in us and around us that sometimes we come to a place where we just feel a little disconnected, a little disconnected from God and from myself. I don't not believe God is real. I'm just mad at Him.

I don't not believe God is real. I just don't understand how to hear from Him or know what He thinks about me. And now I don't know who I am. I had really lost a sense of being connected to God, and that is where this spoken word piece came from.

I kind of discovered that I had to fight for my life, by fighting for my schedule and to start fighting to spend real time with God. Because it was very easy just to say things like, “I know I'm supposed to read the Bible. I know I'm supposed to pray. I'm supposed to have community. I'm supposed to wrestle a lot.” Okay, now what? And then not do any of those things.

When my life was heavy and busy and chaotic, I had to look at my month and plan some time to be in God's word, to pray, to get honest, to confess, to invite real community back in my life again, to confess to people what I was going through, to actually rest, to make sure I was planning a day where I wasn't getting ahead or working and finding my value in what I did. I had to really change my rhythms.

And then as I started fighting to spend real time with God and read His Word and engage with what He said about me, I started memorizing names that God gave me, trying to make His voice the loudest voice in my life.

I didn't know these words as well as I knew other names. I had heard garbage, guilty, ashamed, failure. I didn't know these words as well, so I set out to memorize them.

Shelby: From the Bible.

Hosanna: From the Bible, yes, from God's Word. And there were just things I didn't understand. I think the translation I was reading, I didn't understand. The time of day I was trying to force myself to read, it wasn't a great time of day for my personality. There were things I had to just stop living under the pressure or the guilt of what my mom's rhythms were or what my pastor's rhythms were.

But think, I need a translation I understand; I need a time of day that works for my personality; I need rhythms so I can connect with God. When I took that pressure off to have a relationship with Jesus like everyone else's, it finally became real. Then I started memorizing these names. And then out of that season came this spoken word piece, I Have a New Name, where I was declaring these names God gave me. And I did not know when I started performing it that it was something a lot of us needed to be reminded of. Truths from the word of God. You know, the spoken word is, unlike all my other ones, is mostly the Word of God. It's mostly Scripture. So, I think that's why people resonate with it, because there's something magnetic that happens in our souls when we hear truth about ourselves. It sets us free.

Shelby: Yes, that's so good. And when you say that, I'm wondering, what specifically did you need to be set free from? What were some of the lies you believed about yourself growing up that you maybe had to battle later on?

Hosanna: Yes, I believed I was not enough. You know, my dad battled a heroin addiction for 15 years. He fought in a gang. That's kind of my background.

After someone introduced my dad to Jesus and Jesus changed his life, he started outreach to people living without homes. So I constantly felt like my family was not enough because my family had a different past than my friends parents did. I felt like my church wasn't enough. We weren't like the other families. Even in Christian circles, it felt like our ministry wasn't a real ministry or our church was too different of a church, because of the fact that it was outdoors three days a week to people living without homes and battling with addiction.

I was the only Chinese girl in my class. And so, even though I don't have a memory of someone saying to me that I stood out too much or was too different. I just remember thinking, “I don't look like any of the other girls in my class.” So constantly trying to wear my eye makeup a certain way for my eyes to look bigger or pretend like my clothes weren't from the thrift store or hand me downs. I was constantly trying to water down my details about my dad, my family, my church, my heritage, my background. My family didn't have as much money as other kids families. I was constantly trying to water down who I was to be loved and accepted. I think one of the biggest lies I believed was that I was not enough.

I see how even when I started sharing about Jesus with people, I saw that my temptation early on when I wasn't yet healed, when I didn't yet have this idea of really, truly being connected to the source of life every single day as a rhythm, I would even maybe try to water down my story as I shared about Jesus.

I wanted to preach about Jesus, but maybe leave some of my details out of it, because I felt like maybe my background or my story, maybe disqualified me from the places I felt called to. All of those things are lies from the enemy. The enemy hopes that we believe that we're not enough, that we're unworthy, that we don't make the mark.

So we compare ourselves to other people and try to shape shift ourselves to try to fit into some kind of mold, because the enemy knows what we need to know. The truth is that it is your background and your story and your details that God wants to use for His glory and the good of others for this exact moment in time.
Of course, the enemy wants us to think we're not enough. So we change who we are, because God made us who we are and calls us to be who we are. That's probably one of the biggest lies that I've believed. I think other lies that I think many people might resonate with as well is a burden to be loved.

You know, when you think you're a burden to be loved, you might isolate yourself or feel like if you share about what you're really going through with people, it'll annoy them. Or if you have big dreams, you don't want to tell people or ask them for help. Or if you have prayer requests, you might not even ask for people to pray for you because you feel that you're a burden to be loved. We're seeing that what you think about yourself determines how you live.

If you feel like you're a failure, you'll start living like you are. You'll start thinking that anything you feel called to do or start will ultimately fail. You'll always make the same mistakes you once did. Sometimes we will even disobey God, because we are so afraid of what we think is the inevitable future, which is that we will always be a failure. I've certainly listened to these names in multiple ways throughout my whole life, and they’ve acted like a ceiling in my life, stopping me from living the life God's created me to live.
So when I wrote, I have a new name, I was declaring what God said about me, but certainly I did not just declare truth and automatically live lighter and without fear.

Shelby: I'm free and done.

Hosanna: Yes, I'm done. Praise God I named it and claimed it, but then you had to live it. Then after I wrote it is when I really discovered the rhythms to have a lifestyle of knowing who I am and going to a place where even when people's opinions hurt, they don't take you down. Even when circumstances are hard, they don't take you out, and that's the life Jesus invites us to live. He says, “Follow me and follow the way I live follow my lifestyle, follow my rhythms.” Jesus did not think that once we followed Him we would all of a sudden know what to do at any given moment. No, He said, “Come and follow me. I'm going to show you how to live. So you naturally start living as how you've been created to live, and you naturally start living like Me.”

Shelby: Hosanna, you're talking about living like Jesus. And a few minutes ago, you talked about rhythms. There's a story behind all of this. So can you tell me about when you discovered the importance of having the rhythms of Jesus in your life?

Hosanna: I have a friend who works in vineyards.

Shelby: Okay.

Hosanna: You know, we get this Scripture verse, “Abide in Christ.” We know this from something Jesus himself said in John 15, “Abide in me. I'm the vine. You're the branches. You remain in me. I remain in you. You abide in me. I abide in you. You'll bear great fruit, but without me can do nothing.”
So in a state where I'm thinking I need to know who I am and how to live. I called one of my friends who's not a Jesus person, yet, in the name of Jesus. She's worked in vineyards her whole life, and I call her all the time to ask her questions. She's one of my best friends and I said, “Hey, I have a question about vineyards about the relationship between branches and vines. She has no context for this Scripture, right?

Shelby: Yes.

Hosanna: I said, “Is all the branches need to live is to be connected to a vine?” Is there anything else you can tell me? And she said to me she said, “Technically, yes, all the branches need to live is to be connected to the vine, the source of life, but really they need a trellis. Really, they need a structure to help them grow and flourish to their full capacity.

So she's describing this wooden structure that vineyards need to have and that we might have in our own home with our plants that are kind of tilting over, or maybe like an arched trellis at a park or zoo.

Shelby: To prop them up, yes.

Hosanna: And she talks to me about how that's how they get even sunlight. They're not too cold. They're not too hot. How they don't rot or mold and how they flourish.

And I said, “Okay, but what if I don't care about flourishing? I just mean about surviving. Don't all the branches need to live is to be connected to the source, the vine? What if they don't have a trellis? Can they still live?

She said, “Yes, they can still live, but without a structure, they will live constantly weighed down. They will carry weights they were not meant to carry, and they will fight an uphill battle they weren't meant to fight. Eventually, the branches will grow disconnected from themselves, and then they will grow disconnected from the vine.”

And in that moment, I realized, I was living so weighed down. I was carrying weights I wasn't meant to carry. I wanted to be connected to the source, but I did not have a structure in my life to help me be connected and stay connected to the source. That's when I started taking these rhythms very seriously, realizing that these were a structure I needed to be connected to Jesus.

I think I had to dismiss some myths I grew up believing when we think about some of these rhythms. I call them rhythms. I've heard them called other things, spiritual disciplines, or habits. But when I think of these things, I was raised thinking that you get salvation from the spiritual disciplines. You get salvation from these rhythms. And so now I put all my weight of the pressure of my salvation on them.

Shelby: Yes in the works of all of it.

Hosanna: Absolutely. When she said that to me, I realized that there is no life in the structure. The structure is a, is a wooden stick. There is no life. There's no water. There's no vitamins. Like there is no source of life in the structure. There's only life in the source, but the structure helps you be connected and stay connected to the source.

I realized that these rhythms were for me to be connected to Jesus without guilt or without shame, but to truly be connected with the source of life. And so I started studying the rhythms of Jesus. I figured if I'm going to take anybody's structure or anybody's lifestyle, I might as well just look at the number one human. I'm going to study Jesus. So I studied his lifestyle and his rhythms. And from that, I took things I saw that He did in private over and over to live the life He was called to live in public. And I started making it a structure in my life and over time, my posture changed, my marriage changed, my ministry changed, and I got my life back.

Shelby: Are there specific hangups you see in people that consistently come up and get in the way of abiding in Christ, are there, like, can you give me a few examples of what might stop people from remaining in Him as a branch connected to the vine?

Hosanna: I would say, like amongst me and my friends, some of the greatest barriers I've found is maybe it was something that was forced on us as kids. So it's always something that we had to do in order to be whatever, saved, loved, accepted, good enough for our parents, I don't know.

So because we were taught it in a way that we had to do something. As opposed to here is the way to know God and know who you are. I think for some people that hurt is very real, and that they have to realize that some people taught them wrong and those people were wrong, and the leaders that should have spoken to you better, didn't. To say, “Okay, now how will I connect with Jesus - without the pressure from that person growing up or without the guilt, how will I connect with Jesus?

A lot of my friends have had a heal from some of those people and realize they were
wrong. That's a big moment when you realize the people you looked up to are the people that should have been trustworthy growing up were wrong about how they taught you. And maybe because they needed some healing too. I don't know.

The other wall I see a lot is the pressure for it to look a very specific way. These might be the two that I feel the most or hear the most. One is that it was forced on you. So now it being a choice is really a journey, and for me It wasn't a choice until my life shattered. I didn't know who I was and then I thought, “Oh shoot I need to know who I am.” And then I came back to these rhythms from a very different lens from a very different place.

Then the other thing I see a lot is when people feel like their relationship with Jesus has to look a very specific way, you have to read this translation, and wake up at five in the morning and you pray two hours every morning. And then, you know, whatever - whatever these rhythms, the way you were taught, because that doesn't work with your schedule or your lifestyle or your personality, we don't do them at all.

This can look like many ways, this can look like a very specific person, a very specific church hurt you. So now you don't want to ever attend church and now you don't even think it's important that God commands that you be in community. Now you don't even think it matters that Jesus exemplified a life of always being in real community. Now you don't even have any time when you spend time with Christ followers and confess to them, because you just were so badly hurt by something that was very real.

A lot of our aversions are because of something very real that happened to us. I find that it's not often that we're just rebellious or we don't care about living our lives to the fullest potential. We don't care about obeying God.

Shelby: There's a catalyst of some kind.

Hosanna: We have a reason why something is kind of painful. We have to name this pain and see what is God's truth in it. I think that's the same for reading the Word of God. I might need a new translation that I understand a little bit more.

You can Google different translations, reader's bibles. Maybe you didn't understand the translation that was given to you. Maybe you're not a morning person. Maybe you need to read the Bible at lunch or in the evening, or on audio book. There's many different ways to engage with God's Word than perhaps the one way you were taught.

I just think that God wants to connect with you where you are. There is a way to do it in your real life now with your personality, with the way that you engage, with what you enjoy. And I think that sometimes we are waiting for a certain kind of schedule, when I have a certain kind of career, with a certain kind of hours, in a certain kind of community and live in a certain kind of area, then I'll be able to have the rhythms the way I thought I needed to have rhythms.

But that is a lie from the enemy. God wants to have a real relationship with you right now in your real life. And there is a way in your real schedule to engage with God's Word, to pray, to rest, and have real community. When you take a pause and have a self audit of your life, look at your monthly schedule. I believe you can find those moments and schedule those moments so you can connect with the One who knows you best.

Those four rhythms are the four that I have really instilled into my life very seriously and try to teach on for people to start here - to know who you are and know how to live, here's four rhythms of Jesus. This is a good place to begin.

Shelby: Yes, that's good. It's hard sometimes because when we come to Christ, we're in a certain environment with people who act a certain way, and there's like a culture there, whether we like to name it or not. But it's like I remember early on is always like the culture was you had to have your time with the Lord in a coffee shop. It had to be, you had to use the NIV translation, you had to have a moleskin journal, a certain type of pen.

Hosanna: See who can live up to these standards, and where do they come from?

Shelby: I don't have enough money for coffee to go and do that every single day. But it was like always in a big backpack. And I, you know, it's silly now saying that. But looking back on it, I was like, that's what I believe that that's how you had to go about spending time with the Lord.

Hosanna: No, you're not crazy. There's another version of it today. It's very popular on TikTok and Instagram. People taking videos of their rhythms and their routines of what time they wake up every day and how they read their Bible with their certain cups or their certain foods or their smoothies. I think it's cool when people show how they do it so it can inspire people and show people options.

But when everyone seems to do it the exact same way every day, you start to wonder, “Well, what if I can't do it that way, or my house doesn’t look that, then you think am I not doing this right?” I think that's a way that the enemy can use something that God could use for good, if we were inspired by it. But then can also be used for evil if we start to worship it and put ourselves in a box of my life has to look like that life. The truth is, and it might be why I've come at it a different way, but I didn't know about this kind of Christian culture until I was in college.

So, I didn't grow up with friends who were Christ followers. I was and my family was, because we did our outreach to people living without homes, but those were mostly adults. And so, everyone I went to school with, and I did life with, and art with, and spoken word with, they weren't Christ followers. And so, I was kind of the Christ follower of the group and they would totally support my spoken word poetry. We support all each other's arts. I talked about god. They asked me questions about God.

I thought about Jesus and community in a different way when I went to college. I went to a Christian college and it was unlike anything I’d ever Imagined. It was quite hard for me. Maybe some of it was my own sin and my own ego. But I arrived at Christian college at 17 years old and didn't know about that kind of the world that you're describing that we both know well now. But I just felt so much guilt or shame when I didn't do something perfectly and I had no idea.

Then there was all these people who were in college to get degrees to be in ministry and almost none of them attended church, almost none of them would like speak to me, or like hang out with me and my friends. I remember thinking and they would just say things like, “I'm in school to be a worship leader.” I'm like, well, where do you go to church, because I'm looking for a church? I'm not from this area.” And they would say things like, “Well, I don't go to church now. When I graduate though, I'm going to be a worship leader, because that church over there - I can't stand that worship leader; and that church - I don't like their style; and that pastor - tells too many jokes. Well, that pastor doesn't tell enough jokes.” They were just like professional critics, but they didn't care about being the change they hoped to see.

I missed my friends on the streets. Like people were very honest and real about how far they were from God. And the truth is that the people in our churches and in our colleges and in our schools have the same hurts and problems and brokenness as my friends on the streets. They might smell better, but my friends will be more honest about it.

And it was I had to almost like learn what this culture was when I was almost an adult to be like, “Oh my gosh, there's this whole other thing that people think this is about;” and they were raised that way. And it was very hard for me. It wasn't an easy experience for me. I've worked to study really what Jesus says about how we're supposed to live. And there were things I was wrong about too. Like by growing up in the very specific church I grew up in. I was like, “Oh my gosh, like I didn't know some of these words were bad.”
Like I wasn't the perfect, ideal picture of how to be a Christ follower.

But I just think that it is worth looking at your real life and saying how I follow Jesus for real and not try to adhere to some standard that the world created, or even that a Christ following world created, but to really consider the way Jesus lived. And are you living that way? Do you know Him for real? Do you know what He says about you? Do you know what He's calling you to do? Spend real time with the One who knows you best. And I think even now, some years out of college, I'm aware that both these worlds exist now and trying to make this as clear and as practical as possible for all of us.

Shelby: “Spend real time with the One who knows you best. The One who created you, knows you to the depths, and still loves you to the skies.” That's one of my favorite Tim Keller quotes. He knows you. God knows you. The real you and He wants to be with you, so lean in and get to know Him more and more every day. That's time you'll never regret investing, time with God.

Hosanna Wong was so much fun to be with, and just an all around delightful person. I loved it. If you liked this episode of Real Life Loading…, or you thought it was helpful, I'd love for you to share today's podcast with a friend.

And wherever you get your podcast, you could really advance what we're doing with Real Life Loading, if you'd rate and review us. It's especially easy to find us on our social channels, just search for Real Life Loading or look for our link tree in the show notes.

I want to thank everyone on the Real Life Loading team. You all make it happen. I'm Shelby Abbott, and I'll see you back next time on Real Life Loading…

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