9 Days to a Better Sex Life (Part One) – Dave and Ashley Willis

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FamilyLife Today® with Dave and Ann Wilson – Web Version Transcript

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9 Days to a Better Sex Life (Part One)

Guests:Dave and Ashley Willis

From the series:9 Days to a Better Sex Life (Day 1 of 2)

Air date:April 28, 2025

Dave Willis:Any addiction is difficult to break free from. I just found myself there; I hated myself for doing it or for being tempted. There were still one or two relapses, which made me hate myself even more—and then, hit the reset button, of course, on the trust process—but over time, was able to get free once and for all.

Dave:Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Dave Wilson.

Ann:And I’m Ann Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

Dave:Well, I don’t say this every time we have a guest in the studio. You know what I’m going to say: “I love these guys!”

Ann:You love/we both love these guys.

Dave Willis:Thank you.

Dave:I hope other guests don’t hear us, thinking, that we’re not saying we love them. We love everybody who comes in here.

Ann:We can sit and talk to you both for days.

Dave Willis:Same with us.

Ashley:Same; we feel exactly the same.

Dave Willis:Not to throw the other guests under the bus; but before we started, they did tell us: “By far, you’re not only our favorite guests, you’re the only guests that we like.”

Ashley:No, they did not.

Dave Willis:They did; I heard it.

Ashley:I promise.

Dave Willis:Yeah, they did.

Dave:It’s because your name is identical. Dave and Ashley Willis are with us today with Dave and Ann Wilson.

Dave Willis:It’s not confusing at all; not at all.

Ann:The same initials.

Ashley:Yep.

Dave:Now what are your kids doing right now? Because the last time you were here, your four boys were a little younger.

Ashley:Yes.

Dave:So tell our listeners what all you do. I mean, you do like 18,000 things and you have four boys.

Dave Willis:She does 18,000 things.

Ashley:I don’t know about that.

Dave Willis:Yeah, she’s the most high-achieving person I know; I don’t see how she does it all. She has her own counseling/coaching practice, where she’s—

Dave:That’s sort of new, right?

Ashley:It is new; yes, it’s new this year. I do mental health and marriage coaching, and counseling at our local church as well; and I love it. That keeps me busy during the day.

Dave:And this is sort of an intervention right now, right? That’s why you’re here?—

Dave:Yes.

Ashley:Right.

Ann:—to counsel and coach us.

Dave Willis:She said, “I need help with Dave.”

Dave:I bet you did!

Ashley:No, I love doing that. And then, together, we do marriage ministry, and write resources, and speak around different places.

Dave:How many years have you done marriage ministry? Here’s my thought: I don’t know if you know Crystal Payne.

Ashley:Yes!

Dave:Yeah, she’s called the mom of Facebook or something. She was on Facebook before Facebook was even known. I feel like you guys were as well; you were on Facebook at the very, very beginning.

Dave Willis:Yes; we were. I was in Mark Zuckerberg’s dorm room, saying, “Hey, let’s start this thing.” No, we weren’t—

Ashley:I wish.

Dave Willis:—we weren’t; I wish, for sure.

Dave:No, in a good way, you were one of the first people that I ever saw on Facebook that saw this medium as a way to impact and help people.

Dave Willis:Well, thank you.

Ashley: Yeah, thank you.

Dave Willis:We kind of got started on Facebook. We’ve branched off from there and do podcasts and other things now. But we started there because, back then, it’s the only thing we could do that we could afford. We didn’t know—podcasts weren’t really a thing yet—we didn’t have any money; so we’re like: “What can we do for free?” “Let’s start a Facebook page.” That was our budget: free! We started a Facebook page—just called it Marriage—we couldn’t think of a more creative title. We’re like: “Well, just make it clear what it’s about.”

Slowly, it started to grow. It became really a large audience of people from all over the world who just wanted marriage encouragement and help. God used that as some kind of on-the-job training for us as people would message us, asking for advice, prayer requests. We got to see what folks were really dealing with. God just grew a passion in us to help married couples, inside and outside the church, but to do it all with a Christian message—because God’s the only way that we’re going to have good marriages—we can’t do it without Him.

We’ve loved getting to do it together; we’ve loved how it’s impacted our own marriage. We’ve loved the partners we’ve gotten to meet along the way, like you two. It’s been fun. We’ve been doing marriage ministry, one form or another, I guess about 12 years.

Ann:What about your podcast?

Ashley:Yes, that was a Naked Marriage podcast we did for about six years; right, sweetie?

Dave Willis:Yeah; and then, we’ve done some other podcasts as well.

Ashley:Yes, we just finished our first season of The Marriage on the Line podcast, which is a call-in podcast. We really love the podcast forum. As you guys well know, it’s a great way to get to know people, and share stories, and good content. It’s been a journey, and we love that we get to do it together.

Dave:One of my questions is—you said it first started being called Marriage—now, you’re known as Naked Marriage: “How did we get from Marriage to Naked Marriage?” and “What does that mean?” Obviously, a provocative title. That’s not always what you think—naked doesn’t just mean take your clothes off—

Ashley:Right.

Dave:—what’s it mean?

Dave Willis:It doesn’t. Yeah, we’re not nudists. If you’re listening and not watching this, we are all fully-clothed right now.

Ashley:—fully-clothed, yes.

Dave Willis:When you look at that first picture of marriage in the Bible—the very first picture; God’s perfect plan for marriage—it says, “The man and his wife were naked and unashamed.” Naked and unashamed meaning—not only were they not wearing clothes; there was the physical intimacy—but there was, also, a picture of emotional intimacy. Nakedness is saying: “I’ve got nothing to hide from you; you’ve got nothing to hide from me. I see your scars; you see mine. We accept each other as we are; there’s nothing hidden between us.”

God still desires that level of intimacy for every married couple, even though our sin nature wants us to hide and wants us to pull back. The Naked Marriage was born out of that:

Because it is fun and provocative, and people remember it. There’s a little bit of, I guess, just kind of a marketing element.

But more than that, it’s the spiritual part; it’s like, “No, God created marriage to being a naked marriage, where there’s nothing between you, nothing holding you back.”

That’s been kind of the core of our message from the start.

Ann:Ashley, have you guys seen that that is something that couples struggle with?

Ashley:Absolutely, yes. I think we live in a world that really shies away from trusting anyone. I think trust is/everybody’s skeptical. I think we hear all these horror stories on the True Crime podcast, which I’m a fan of too, but they’re the most popular. It’s like it breeds this skepticism; and just how you really never know anybody, and so you can’t really fully be vulnerable, even with your own spouse. Because you need to have something, kind of up your sleeve, just in case things fall out. There’s just kind of this expectation that they will; because you don’t really know them; and you can’t really trust them.

I think we’ve seen, really in current society, more people really not fully engaging with their spouse, and not fully trusting their spouse, and fully going all in. When you don’t fully go all in, you can’t really experience that naked marriage.

Ann:I don’t know about you guys, but we have seen, too, that people have a lot more secrets it feels like today. Maybe it’s because of social media, because of pornography; but there’s so much more shame in marriages. We’re afraid to share who we really are or what we’ve done.

Dave:You guys seeing that?

Ann:Absolutely; yeah.

Dave Willis:Yeah, there’s a lot. Secrets are heavy; they weigh people down. We’re not meant to carry them, especially in marriage.

Helping people find the courage to confess, first to God—who already knows, by the way: He sees; He knows what’s going on—but to say it out loud to Him; and then, we confess. The Bible says, in the book of James: “Confess to one another for healing.” We confess to God for forgiveness, but the healing part can only happen when we bring our secrets out to people in relationships.

And that starts in marriage—for those of us who are married—that the marriage relationship, by God’s design, is a place where there should be no secrets between a husband and a wife. Once it becomes a safe place for both of you to be able to express—all your hurts, all your hangups, all your fears, all your secrets—man, the intimacy that you can experience is just incredible.

Dave:Okay, let’s get real: “You got any secrets?” No, I’m kidding. But in your marriage though, you’re the naked married couple. Have you had to walk through a season—maybe, it was 20 years ago; maybe, it was recently—where: “Yeah, I’m carrying a secret; I’m scared,”—because that’s the thing: we’re scared, to death, to ever let anybody know, even our spouse. How have you navigated that in your own marriage?

I’m like, “I’m going to go there. Let’s talk.”

Dave Willis:Yeah, let’s do it. Let’s do it.

Ashley:Absolutely. We’ve had multiple times—obviously, being married; we’ve been married 23 years—we’ve had multiple times where we’ve had to do that. We’ve gotten much better at it as time has gone on, and just being vulnerable, really all the time, and coming out with it.

I would say for me—personally, pretty early on in our marriage—I started having a really bad bout with anxiety attacks and, even, depression too. I didn’t understand what I was really dealing with at the time. Because now that I’ve done all this work, and now that I do this also for a living, I realize [now] I come from an environment—I have a wonderful family, and I’m so grateful for them—but really, a lot of the women in my family had dealt with anxiety and depression. It was seen as normal; it was kind of like: “If you’re not worrying about it, do you even care?”

Ann:And it probably wasn’t talked about as much back then.

Ashley:Oh, no; no, you don’t. It was like you keep that a secret; you deal with it. Certainly, don’t talk about it with anybody; because it’s almost like there’s shame on it. I’m not blaming my family; but that’s just kind of how I understood it, because that’s what I was around.

I remember, too, as a Christian woman—when I started having doubts; and kind of scary thoughts in my mind; and just horrible sadness; and really bad debilitating anxiety attacks, usually in the middle of the night—I really thought:

“Oh, I must have done something terribly wrong,”

or “There’s something terribly wrong with me; I’m not really being a good Christian woman. Something’s wrong. I’m not believing God enough; I’m not trying enough,”

or I really felt just riddled with accusations, really, from the enemy. One thing in particular: I remember one night I was literally getting physically ill from the anxiety inside my body. It was happening more and more frequently, and it would be in the middle of the night. Let me just say, as a side note: “Dave is a very sound sleeper, and I’m so glad. He doesn’t know this is all going on.”

Dave Willis:It’s a gift.

Ashley:It’s a gift.

Ann:He had no idea.

Ashley:He had no idea.

Ann:You’re like tormented.

Ashley:Totally. That’s a great word for it; I was tormented.

Dave:Did he know you were struggling with anxiety?

Ashley:No, I kept it.

Dave:He didn’t even know that?

Ashley:I locked it down; I was like, put on: “Be the happy wife.”

Dave:David, isn’t it great to live in this world? I love marriage.

Dave Willis:I don’t pick up on subtle cues or even very obvious cues. You have to wear a sign that says, “I’m feeling anxious right now.”

Ann:But it’s so sad that you were carrying that all by yourself.

Dave:Were you afraid to tell Dave?

Ashley:I was so afraid.

Dave:Really?

Ann:—because—

Ashley:Honestly, I was afraid of myself. I got to a point where I couldn’t even trust my own decision-making. I’d wake up; I’d go to work; I’d put on a smile. No one in my life knew—no one—there was not one person I talked to about it. I just kept on trying to will myself out of it.

I remember that one night in particular: I had just gotten kind of sick to my stomach. I’m in the bathroom, and I’m a mess. I’m crying, and I’m just riddled with all these worries. I was just praying, like, “Lord, help me.” Literally just: “Lord help me.” It was like that still small voice—it wasn’t audible—but just that still small voice of the Holy Spirit really convicted me, and was like, “I’ve given you Dave as a helper; you need to go and tell your husband. That’s one of the steps you need to take: go and tell your husband.”

I just really fought that. I remember—I think I had to wait another day—and it happened another night. I just thank God He’s patient with us.

Dave:Now, why didn’t you tell him?

Ashley:I just was scared. One of the lies I was believing was: “He just needs to leave you. You need to give him permission to leave you, because you’re not the woman he married. If he knew, he couldn’t take it; he couldn’t handle it; he’d want to leave anyway.” That’s how riddled I was with this.

I just finally—it was multiple nights of just feeling that: “You need to tell Dave,”—and I finally, literally, 3 in the morning; he is dead asleep. I wake him up, and I am a mess. Literally I’m shaking him; I’m like, “Are you up?” He’s just totally over there, snoring or whatever. Finally, he wakes up; and he’s disoriented. I just start just letting it all out. I’m just like: “I feel convicted; I need to tell you what’s really been going on with me. I’ve been having these anxiety attacks. I’ve been feeling sick, and I can’t believe these scary thoughts I have. I am just not the woman you married, and you should probably leave me. I’m just so sorry that this is who I am now,”—very much taking on that identity. Anxiety was my identity.

Dave:“This is who I am.”

Ashley:“This is who I am,” and “I know you won’t love this. You couldn’t possibly love this, because I don’t love it.”

He just looked me in the eyes, and that was the first step that really helped me was him not looking away; and then, he just listened intently. When I finally took a breath, and gave him a moment to speak, he just was like, “I’m so sorry. I’m just so sorry you’ve been going through this, and I had no idea. I’m so glad you told me. I just want you to know I’m not going anywhere; I’m not going anywhere. This isn’t who you are, and I don’t pretend to understand all this. But I know that we’re going to get through this, because we have each other; but most of all, because God will help us get through this”

It was really just exactly what I needed to hear, because I felt like, “I can’t bear this burden on my own.” In the days, and weeks, and months to come, Dave just walked alongside me with this. He was like, “Let’s get you a counselor.” He was like, “I don’t care how much it costs.” And he’s like: “Here’s this book that can help you,” and “Let me pray with you,” “Maybe, there’s this…”

I remember, during that time, sometimes if I was feeling it in the middle of the night, sometimes, I would watch programs that had encouraging messages, like Christian television where I would hear testimonies. I would just try to fill my mind with the things of God, and not focus on this anxiety, and really try to understand my anxiety. Little by little, over time—and it took time—it wasn’t: “Poof; it’s gone.” But little by little, it lifted; it was a very gradual lifting. One day, I remember: “I didn’t have that sinking sick feeling today.” I had one day without that sinking-sick feeling, and he celebrated with me.

Ann:It felt like freedom, probably.

Ashley:Yeah, the freedom. Mine was a four-year battle; it was a long journey. I know there’s other people, it’s much longer.

That was a secret where—because I think, sometimes, we keep secrets that aren’t necessarily like sin—but just struggles that we’re afraid that our spouse can’t deal with. I guess, in that season, I just learned, “Man, one of the greatest gifts we have in marriage is to be burden-bearers together, and to have each other’s back, and to be in each other’s corner.” Dave was certainly that for me, and I’m just so grateful.

Dave:What do you say?—that’s a beautiful story—Dave, you’re like “Husband of the Year.”

Dave Willis:No, she’s not remembering it completely correctly.

Ashley:That’s how I remember it.

Dave Willis:I was so ill-equipped to know how to help; so I didn’t say wise things, really. She is giving me a lot of credit there.

Ann:But you looked her in the eye.

Dave Willis:I looked her in the eye.

Ann:He looked; yeah, didn’t look away.

Dave Willis:That’s what I try to tell husbands, and just people in general in marriages: “You don’t always have to have the answer; you just have to be there. Be present; let your spouse know: ‘We’re going to figure this out together,’ and ‘I’m not going anywhere.’”

Dave:And you didn’t try and fix it.

Dave Willis:I didn’t try to fix it.

Ashley:No, he didn’t.

Dave Willis:Because I didn’t know how to fix it. I was like, “I’m not going to try to fix this; but we’re going to face it together. We’re going to figure this out together, and God’s going to help.” I was just there; just the ministry of presence, sometimes, is what your spouse needs. Sometimes, your spouse just needs a hug more than your advice.

Ann:Let me ask you this—because this feels beautiful in terms of when you expose: “I’m feeling these things about myself,” and your spouse can say, “No, that’s not who you are,”—but then, when you have a spouse reveal secrets of, let’s say, pornography.

Dave Willis:Sure, which I had.

Ann:Oh, so let’s go there; because you talk about that. I feel like you guys are more real than even we are. We feel like we will go there, but you are incredibly honest and forthcoming in all the things you’ve been through.

This one to me—because Dave had this secret too—and when he exposed it, I was not like, “Let me look you in the eyes, and tell you, ‘I’m here.’” I was mad.

Dave Willis:Yeah, sure.

Ann:I felt like, “I don’t know if I want it; this is so hard.” Let’s go there with those spouses.

Dave:I’d love to hear your journey; because when that happened, it was the first couple of years of our marriage. We’re in our 45th, so a long time ago; but she got so angry. It made me think, “I’ll never tell her again.”

Ann:Because it just stirred up all of my insecurities.

Dave:“So if I struggle again, I’m just going to keep it a secret. This is killing her.” Again, that changed over time; but that was her initial response, and it made me worse.

Dave Willis:—which is an understandable response to that kind of sin and betrayal.

Dave:Yes, totally; she had every right to feel that way.

Ashley:Oh, yeah.

Dave Willis:We talk a lot about pornography, not because it’s a comfortable topic, but because it is everywhere; and people aren’t talking about it. The stats, even within the church, aren’t much different than the stats outside the church. The majority of men in America, right now, have a current porn habit—not just part of the, even within the church—more than half, currently. It’s not just part of your past testimony; it’s something that you do regularly. You’ve maybe bought into that cultural lie that it’s not a sin: “It’s no big deal; it’s just entertainment. It’s not hurting anybody.”

Of course, those are all lies. We could give you plenty of Bible verses and examples; in fact, we do in the free e-book that’s available with this broadcast.

Dave:Yeah, there is a free e-book.

Dave Willis:—a free e-book.

Dave:—about this topic called 9 Days to Great Sex.

Dave Willis:That’s right.

Dave:If you’re like, “That can happen in nine days?”—

Ann:—and you guys: “It’s free.”

Dave:Go to our show notes; there’ll be a link there.

Dave Willis:That’s right. We believe in this message so much, and we’re thrilled to be able to offer it for free. We want there not to be any hindrance in people getting it.

We talk in that book a lot about our testimony as it relates to pornography. I’m convinced the issue—the main issue—that is keeping people, right now in the world, from experiencing the fullness of God’s plan for their life/for their marriage—it is the glass ceiling that’s holding you back from breaking through to that next level of intimacy and connection—it’s weighing you down.

I know what that feels like, because I was there. I was exposed to porn as an adolescent, and those images just sort of locked themselves in my mind. And when you’re young, it’s like there’s wet cement in your mind and heart. The images, the experiences you have in those formative years, leave impressions that harden over time. It’s hard to break free from those impressions, even if they’re wrong.

My early impressions about sex weren’t healthy; they were this very toxic counterfeit that the world puts out. I tried to break free from it, but I didn’t do it God’s way. I didn’t break free from it through confessing it to people, through getting accountability—any of those things—I tried to break free from it just by willpower, which almost never works in any part of life.

Early in our relationship—in the dating phase—I didn’t tell Ashley that this had been a struggle, that this had been kind of like an on-again; off-again struggle. I thought, “Well, I can overcome this on my own. She doesn’t need to know. I don’t want her to know that I’d struggled with this.”

Dave:That is so typical, by the way. So many Christian couples do the same journey.

Ann:I think, a lot of times, the person thinks, “When I get married, I won’t have this struggle.”

Dave Willis:Exactly. Yeah, that’s one of the—

Ashley:You totally believe that.

Dave Willis:—one of the big lies. Satan has so many very effective lies related to porn.

One extreme is that: “It’s not a sin. It’s no big deal; keep doing it.”

The other extreme is: “This is unforgivable; you’re going to be riddled with shame your whole life. No one will ever love you.”

And then, the one you just mentioned, Ann: “Well, once I’m married, I won’t be tempted because I’m going to have…”

Ashley:“I’ll never have a temptation again.”

Dave Willis:I believed that, because I married the woman of my dreams, I thought, “Alright; well, now, there’s no temptation.” But what pornography does is—it doesn’t train your mind or your body ever, ever to be fulfilled in a healthy, monogamous marriage—it warps your mind to always need some stimulus that’s different; it’s self-sabotaging in every way.

About a year into our marriage, I just found myself tempted again, out of nowhere. The temptation took me by surprise. I fell back into that same pit of sin. Now, I was riddled with guilt; because I knew Jesus had said, “Hey, to look with lust is to commit adultery in your heart.” Now, as a married man, I’m like, “Well, this is basically an act of adultery; I don’t know what to do with this. I can’t confess and break the heart of my wife, whom I love so much.”

She ended up finding, on our old clunky computer—this was long before the days of smartphones, and tablets, and all that—but on our big desktop computer, where I’d been looking.

Ashley:I wasn’t looking for it—just so you know—I had no inkling.

Ann:So you weren’t looking at the history or anything.

Ashley:Had no idea. I was in school at the time and just trying to get on a website. I think I had lost track of the website and went—that’s why I went to the history.

Not at all: I mean, it was nowhere on my radar. It just was nowhere. Literally, my first thought—just to show you how much it was not on my radar—I first couldn’t understand what I was looking at, just the names of these sites. And then, “Is that what I think it is? Is that pornography?” I’m like, “Oh, it is”; and then, I thought it wasn’t Dave. I thought, “Who broke into our house, and went into our basement, and got in our clunky computer, and looked at porn?” I really thought that.

Ann:Okay, so did you confront him or say anything?

Ashley:Porn was nowhere on my radar. But I had sensed, for a little bit of time, that there was something he wasn’t telling me.

Ann:That’s what I sensed, too. You can feel it.

Ashley:You feel it; it was a distance between us.

One thing I used to always say to Dave—in our dating days, engagement days, and early marriage days—is: “I just love your honest eyes.” It was like the honest eyes weren’t there, and so I knew something was up. There was something up.

He’d be like, “I’m fine; I’m fine”; because I would say, “What’s going on?” I realized real quick; I’m like, “Oh, this is it; this is the thing.” I was upset; I was so angry, too; and I was sad. I was just shocked, and disgusted—and all the things, a lot of different feelings—I had to hear it from him. I called him at work and, literally, he answered the phone. All I said was [calmly], “Do you have something you need to tell me?” I said it just like that. There was a long pause.

Ann:Did you know she knew?

Dave Willis:I did, yeah.

Ashley:Immediately.

Dave Willis:And guys, if you’re listening, if your wife ever says, “Do you have something you need to tell me?” Just go back, as early as you can remember, and just start confessing: “In second grade, I stole a candy bar,” “In third grade…” She already knows.

I said, “You found it.”

Ashley:Yeah; “You found it.”

Dave Willis:I said, “I’m so sorry.” It was the worst and the best day. I wish I’d had the courage to confess before being caught, but I’m still glad that it was out. Because, now once something’s in light—however it got there—it immediately has less power over you than it did when it was in the darkness.

We started the messy process of working through that and trying to get healthy. It was a messy process; because by that point, I do feel like that, in my mind, it was an addictive behavior by that point. Any addiction is difficult to break free from. I just found myself there; I hated myself for doing it or for being tempted. There were still one or two relapses, which made me hate myself even more—and then, hit the reset button, of course, on the trust process—but over time, was able to get free, once and for all.

Ashley was amazing in that, even though she was wounded—even though, rightly so, she was angry, and demanded that there should be accountability, which every marriage needs—but she was so full of grace too, and I’m so thankful for that. We walked through that together. Thankfully, it’s been many years I’ve been on the other side.

If you’re listening to this, and you’re caught up in it right now, and you feel like, “I just don’t think I can break free,”—listen, I know what that feels like; I remember what that feels like—that: “This is just who I am; I’m stuck with this forever.” You’re not stuck; there is help; there’s hope. I believe it’s not even an accident that you’re listening to this right now. God wants to remind you that He has the power through you to do anything: “We can do all things through Christ.” We can’t do all things just in our own strength; but through Christ—once you invite Him into the picture, and say, “Lord, give me the strength”; and we do what we’re able to do to get the accountability, to confess, to get filtering software on our devices, to do those things that just are going to help keep us on the right path—I promise you can get free.

Once you start living naked marriage, without secrets, the freedom—man, you just never want to go back—it is like you can breathe, and that’s what God wants for you. He wants freedom for you.

Ann:I’m thinking of the listeners who have secrets, who have things that they’ve never confessed. I love the words, “bringing it into the light”; because that’s where we find that freedom in Christ. He’s already given us grace; He’s already forgiven us. But to bring it to each other, that’s when intimacy/true intimacy begins.

Dave:Well—like I knew this was going to happen—we ran out of time; and we have a lot more to talk about. Something I want to talk about tomorrow—I want to ask Ashley and Ann—“When you’re the wife, and this confession happens in your marriage, how to respond?”

We’ve heard your story, which is awesome; and men need to do what Dave just said, but we don’t have time to hear it now. So I’m just going to tell our listeners/our watchers: “Go to FamilyLifeToday.com and get a copy of your e-book, 9 Days to Great Sex.

Dave Willis:Yeah, totally free.

Dave:Totally free.

Dave Willis:No excuses.

Dave:You can have it, and this is all in there—and more—much, much more.

Ann:So much good stuff.

Dave:In fact, we’re talking about that tomorrow. But I want you to coach women if this happens in their marriage. And it could go the other way, when you’re the innocent or whatever, not struggling with this spouse. “How do you love?” “How do you forgive?” “How do you give grace?” That’s tomorrow.

Ann:And if you need more, we’ve put together some of our best material in one place; it’s free. You can go to FamilyLife.com/MarriageHelp and check it out, because we’ll probably have something there that will meet your needs.

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