9 Days to a Better Sex Life (Part Two) – Dave and Ashley Willis

Episode Transcript

FamilyLife Today® with Dave and Ann Wilson – Web Version Transcript

This content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.

9 Days to a Better Sex Life, Part Two

Guests:Dave and Ashley Willis

From the series:9 Days to a Better Sex Life (Day 2 of 2)

Air date:April 29, 2025

Dave Willis:Last week, Connor, our senior in high school, had some kids in his class that were on our Instagram. They were trying to embarrass him; and they said, “Hey, Connor, look, your parents are selling a book about sex”; they thought it would embarrass him. Just totally deadpan, he just looked at them and said, “I can’t get you a discount.”

Ann:Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Ann Wilson.

Dave:And I’m Dave Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

Dave:Alright, we got Dave and Ashley Willis back in the studio; it’s always a good day.

Ann:It’s always a good day.

Dave:We started something with you guys yesterday, talking about naked marriage in a sense as being naked, not physically—although that’s part of it as well—but emotionally. We got into secrets. I love that topic, because I think a lot of marriages—I don’t know the number—am I right?

Ann:Do you guys know a percentage of marriages say they would have a secret?

Dave:—a lot of marriages.

Dave:That would be a really fascinating study.

Ann:Take a guess. Let’s all take a guess.

Dave:You guys are the experts in this. You better know this number; just make one up.

Ashley:We should know this.

Dave:Barna says—

Dave Willis:—“87.3 percent!

Ashley:You mean in general?—not just Christian couples?

Ann:Yes.

Ashley:Maybe 70?

Dave Willis:—that keep some level of secret.

I’m not saying they’re harboring some big sin—they’ve had an affair—and they’re not saying that. Something could be hidden—some money they keep aside—“My husband doesn’t need to know about these purchases.” I think that we can have a lot of secrets about finances—secrets about just certain parts of our life—there’s a temptation to compartmentalize, and say, “This little part of my life is just for me.”

Ann:Even our past.

Dave Willis:Yeah, even our past, for sure.

Ashley:Absolutely, yes.

Ann:It’d be interesting to ask your spouse tonight: “Do you have any secrets?”

Dave:And there’s some, just going: “There’s no way I’m going there; I am not going there.”

Yesterday, Ashley talked about anxiety; that was a secret. Dave’s was pornography. Again, they [listeners] are like, “That’s what we talked about yesterday?” Yes, go back and listen; because we talked about Dave walking through the struggle of pornography; Ashley finding it on the computer.

We didn’t talk about: “How does a wife respond?”—because that’s our story as well.

Ann:How should she respond?

Dave:And it could be the other way around; it could be the husband has to respond to his wife’s pornography struggle; it isn’t just a man-thing.

Ann:I thought, even yesterday, Ashley, when you shared about going through anxiety—and you never told Dave, so you’re battling it alone—but the thing that hit you the most, and was most helpful, that Dave looked you in the eyes, basically saying, “I’m not rejecting you. I’m here with you, and I’m going to stay with you.” That was like a simple step.

What is something that we can do, as women?—when my husband; or my wife [in a man’s case]—just told me they’ve held onto this secret of porn for a long time.

Ashley:My first thing I always tell them is: “It’s okay to feel the feelings that you have. You have every right to be angry, upset, confused, frustrated, disgusted, just sad.” I think there’s a grief process that we go through whenever our spouse reveals a lie to us, especially when it’s a betrayal of any kind; and porn is a betrayal. It’s a sexual betrayal, and it cuts deep.

I think it surprises a lot of wives—the grief they feel—because, and when I say grief, I think a lot of times people always think somebody has to pass away to experience grief. But really, it’s losing anything. What you’re losing, in porn, when your spouse confesses to a porn addiction or a porn habit, is you’re losing that dream of what you thought/how you thought you really were as a couple; it shatters it, because there’s been this big looming secret.

It really puts a tinge on those memories for a while. You’re just like: “When he said he was going here, he was really looking at porn,” or “When I was on my trip with my girlfriends, he was probably at home, looking at porn.” There’s all these things we assume.

Ann:I think I even said it to Dave: “I don’t even know who you are!”

Ashley:Right; “Who are you?” “Can I ever trust you again?”—we start thinking. That anger really, which is part of the grief process, really can get ahold of us. I would just—that’s my first thing I always tell women, who are going through this—“It’s okay to feel your feelings. BUT don’t allow your feelings to end up being your compass, because that’s going to take you down all kinds of rabbit trails that will not lead to health.”

It can really result, after you go through all these feelings, it can really land on just insecurity. That was something I really battled: “What was wrong with me—

Ann:Me too; me too.

Ashley:—“that Dave went to porn?”

Ann:It stirs it all up, and brings it to the surface.

Ashley:Absolutely. When this came out, I don’t think I had confessed to the anxiety yet, and the depression; but I was already in the throes of that, so it wasn’t because of the porn stuff. People always ask me that question; that’s why I want to make that clear, but it didn’t help. I was already riddled with all that, and I had gained some weight through that process of anxiety and depression. I was eating my feelings. So then, that really—I thought, “Oh, I drove him to it,”—you start accusing yourself.

Let me just be very clear: “That is not the case. It’s never the wife’s fault if her husband looks at porn,” or “…the husband’s fault if his wife looks at porn. This is a personal issue that affects the marriage.” A lot of times—I find that because it can cut so deep; and then; we find out the truth of what’s going on—and we want to help our husband, I find that a lot of wives, including myself, put ourselves in a position of becoming an investigator for our husband.

Ann:Yes, yes; to protect ourselves.

Ashley:Right!

Dave:What do you mean, “investigator”?

Ashley:Oh, yeah; do you want to speak to that?

Ann:I’m just searching for all the things:

The computer; you’re looking on the computer.

You’re wondering; I’m asking a lot more questions: “Where are you going?” “What are you doing?”

Dave struggled when he went on Lion’s trips on the road with Detroit Lions. He’s alone in a hotel, and so I am pestering him—this is my control piece—that I’m finding security in my control: “Well, what are you going to do about…”; because he would just—tell how he struggled with that, hon.

Dave:This is 40-some years ago. Back then, there was no computer. It was literally the little box on top of the TV in hotel rooms that you could rent; I call it, now, the “Doom Box.” The first Lion’s trip I ever did—1985 Seattle Seahawks—and there was that box. It’s like, “Here…”—there’s three movies that were in the theaters; and then, there’s three that are porn—back then, it was not even graphic porn like today; but it was porn. I remember looking at the little card—because this was new—”A movie title will not be charged to your room until after five minutes.” That’s how it was, back in the day.

Ann:It was like a free preview.

Ashley:Oh, my goodness.

Dave:I’m, literally, standing there, looking at it, going, “Well, these three movies are absolutely off limits for a Christian man.” I’m like, “But nobody will know if I watch five minutes.” I bet I didn’t watch

30 seconds, and I turned it off. That 30 seconds changed everything—it’s like images; everything; guilt—and the biggest thing: I now have a secret, because there’s no way I’m telling Ann. You know why? “Because I’ll never do it again. That’s why: I’ll never do it again.”

Ashley:Right; right.

Ann:Do you think a lot of people think that? “This is a one-time only,” or “This is the last time”?

Dave Willis:—and “This would only hurt them to tell them.”

Ashley:“They don’t need to know. Me keeping it is my cross to bear”; I’ve heard people say that.

Ann:“Why should I hurt them by what I’ve done?”

Dave:“I’ll take care of this problem. We’ll be good; why bring it up?” And little did I know that—

Ann:But I felt that. You FEEL it.

Dave:—it started a cycle.

Ann:Trust what you feel if you feel, like, “Oh, there’s something off between us.” Trust that and ask the question.

Ashley:Right.

Ann:But also, have the guts to share it.

Ashley:Exactly.

Dave:That’s great advice.

Did we cut you off? Your husband shares this secret, and you said, “Don’t follow your feelings. Take your time.” Again, for us, it didn’t go that way.

Ann:I wish I would have, because I blew up. I’m also a verbal processor; so everything I’m thinking, I’m saying. I’m just dropping bombs over and over.

Dave:I remember running away, in the house, upstairs/downstairs.

Ann:Dave hates conflict, and I don’t; I’m like, “Let’s talk about all of it.” I was watching him just continue to shrink into shame; but I was like, “I don’t care; you deserve to shrink!”

I wish, back then, I would’ve said, “Wow, I’m so angry; I’m so hurt. I need to pull away.” I wish I’d have just pulled away to be able to sort through some of the things for a minute so that I wouldn’t lash out with my words and wound him with my words. But that takes a big step of maturity. I don’t think I was there at the time—I wish—and nobody was talking about it back then either.

Dave Willis:And you were blindsided, too. It’s like, when that just comes out of nowhere, it’s hard to predict how any of us could respond with that kind of news. But you two worked through it—that’s the main thing—

Ashley:Exactly.

Dave Willis:—worked through it. Now, here you are; on the other side, you’ve helped just countless couples, countless.

Ann:As you guys have, too.

Dave Willis:Well, thank you. I think that’s part of God’s goodness: how He doesn’t waste any part of our story. He will take the painful parts of our testimonies; and if we’re willing to really trust Him with that, and work through it with Him, and find healing, then that’ll be kind of the very place where you have credibility to speak into the lives of others.

Ann:Let me ask you, Ashley: I’ve had a lot of wives say to me, “I don’t want to know. I’d rather not know. You [my husband] have a deal? Go ahead; do your thing. But I don’t want to know any of that.” What do you say to those wives?

Ashley:I would say, “You’re going to have to know it if you truly want to live naked and unashamed, because that’s where shame gets a foothold. And that’s just not what God wants for us in our marriage. We’ve got to talk through the hard things; and then, be the burden-bearer.” See, it’s hard to be burden-bearers together when sin is involved. But really—we always say—“It’s never really his problem or her problem; it’s our problem as far as how it affects us both.”

I want to be really clear on this point. You talked about control; and that’s where that investigator kind of role comes in, that we tend to take on when we’ve been betrayed. I want to just tell wives: “If you find yourself in that role of feeling like you have to watch everywhere your husband’s eyes go, and hold him accountable—or you have to, like you said, look on every computer and just really investigate all the time, and just nitpick all the time; and like you said, follow him around—that’s going to be maddening for you both. I would just tell wives: “It’s really not our job, as wives, to be our husband’s keeper or investigator. He’s got to take on the responsibility to get sober from porn and to take those steps that are necessary. Our job is to trust God in the process that God is doing a work inside of him that only He can do.”

Ann:And pray your guts out.

Ashley:Absolutely.

Ann:Be on your face before God, because God hears every one of those prayers.

Ashley:Yes, yes!

Ann:Let me ask you this—you guys have four boys—as a mom, I found myself investigating with our boys. Is that a bad thing or a good thing for parents to investigate all that?

Ashley:Good question.

Dave Willis:I think it’s a vital thing when our kids are raised/being raised under our roof in a world where all this temptation is at their fingertips in a way that it did not exist, even in generations past—there’s always been temptation, but there’s never been the accessibility that they have now, just carrying around in your pocket a supercomputer that can access any image in the world—and you’ve got pornography producers that are intently targeting young people; because they want to create addiction, early on, to get lifelong customers.

Ann:And this is true for girls too; they’re targeting girls in a different way even.

Ashley:Yes, very much so.

Dave Willis:They are, because that’s the highest/the most-growing segment of porn user population is female, by far. It’s a growing segment. So if you’re listening, and you’re a woman, and you’re like, “Well, am I a weirdo? I have this problem too.” No; you’ve been targeted. And you’re a human being; God created us all sexual beings. We’re going to have temptations, but we just all need to be aware that this is out there.

For our kids, we’ve got filtering devices, which I still to this day have on mine. I welcome that accountability.

Ashley:We did that, early on. That was one thing that kind of helped me keep that investigator kind of tendency at bay, knowing, “Okay, we need to do what we can do to put boundaries in place.” Boundaries are essential, obviously—don’t go looking for porn—put boundaries in place in your behavior; but also, on your devices.

Back then, there weren’t as many devices to protect. But as we’ve gone through our marriage, we still have those protections in place; even more so for our boys. I know, with our boys in particular, we have open dialogue. We try to be that safe place, where you can ask us anything; you can talk about anything. Of course, we’ve had conversations about this.

There’s been incidents, where I’ll get with our filtering software—we use Qustodio, with a “Q,”—that’s the one we use these days. I love Covenant Eyes; there’s many great ones out there—it blocks a website. If they’re looking up something that’s pornographic, it blocks it; but then, it sends you an email, and says like, “Hey, So-and-so, on their iPad, looked this up.” It gives me, and it gives Dave, as a parent, an opportunity to enter into the conversation; I’ll say, “Hey, did you just look up something that you probably shouldn’t have?” And they’ll be like, “Oh, I did”; and then, we’ll talk about it.

Dave Willis:It blocks it; but then, it lets us know.

Ashley:It blocks it; right. We try to take the shame off of it and really empower them, like, “Listen, God is a God of boundaries for good reason. It’s one thing to have curiosity; that’s just how we are. And the human body is beautiful; and I understand that you have questions, but we don’t go looking on websites for that. If you have a question about something, just come ask us.” I feel like it just keeps shame from taking root.

Dave Willis:To really have the questions and the conversations that I think many of us grew up, not having—maybe, because it was a different time, different set of circumstances—but we, as parents, have to; we’ve got to lead the conversations; and take the weirdness out of it, that this is a gift that God created for marriage. The world’s tried to counterfeit it and sabotage it, but Satan doesn’t own sex; God does.

With all of our kids, trying to have these conversations, I think that it’s helped us—at least, I think so—be a safe place for them. We even have moments that we laugh about. Last week, Connor, our senior in high school, had some kids in his class who were on our Instagram. They were trying to embarrass him; and they said, “Hey, Connor, look, your parents are selling a book about sex.” They thought it would embarrass him. Just totally deadpan, he looked at them and said, “I can’t get you a discount.” It’s just a normal—

Ashley:It’s just normalizing.

Dave Willis:But speaking of resources, we do have a free resource that we want to give you through FamilyLife: 9 Days to Great Sex, where we talk about all these things. Not only is it for married couples; but there are some tools in there/some conversation guides that can help you specifically as you’re raising kids, teens, adolescents, to help have those conversations. If it just feels so intimidating to talk about these things, we’ve got some resources in that free downloadable book.

Ann:And it’s so good.

Dave Willis:Thank you.

Ann:There are so many good things and helpful practical things.

Dave:I’ll just tell you: when you get it, you also find questions; the back half is all questions. Every question you’ve ever wanted to ask somebody, you’ve got it in there. I won’t even mention some of them.

Dave Willis:They’re very specific.

Dave:Again, that’s at FamilyLifeToday.com; it’s right there. And it’s in our show notes.

Hearing your [the Willises] story of that journey; ours is similar—ours is probably before yours—we’re a little older. Having a wife, as Ann struggled at the beginning with anger—and again, nobody was talking about it back then—so we sort of were on this journey all by ourselves. But she got to a point where I feel like, now, she’s my partner. She’s my soldier in this battle with me, because the battle never ends; it’s still there. Knowing that—for a husband, to have his wife as a partner—what a gift.

But at the same time, I don’t stay pure because of her; it’s my choice. I have to decide to access God’s power. This weekend, I’m preaching on the Spirit power of God, the supernatural power of God. It’s amazing that He gives you self-control to do this, but you have a partner with you that you’re not hiding anymore. There’s no secrets.

Ann:I think, when I have wives come up to me, and say, “I don’t want to know”; what I usually say is: “I can see how you feel that, because it’s hard to hear. We don’t want to hear; it makes us feel bad and stirs up our own insecurities. But God may want to use that to help heal that.”

I will say, “I’ve been married today for 44 years; I know everything about him: I know his weaknesses; I know his strengths; I know those sin patterns that he has, the struggles, his temptations. I know everything about him.” It’s exactly what you’re saying: we are totally naked—intimately, in terms of our souls—I know him, and I still love him. And I said, “If I didn’t know his struggle, I wouldn’t feel the intimacy that I feel with him. I wouldn’t want to miss out on that.”

Ashley:That’s right.

Ann:But I’m thinking this too: last week, I had a small group with these 20- and 30-year-old women. Some are married; some are single. The sexual baggage that they’re carrying is unbelievable. I sat there, listening to the trauma they’ve gone through; I’m thinking even the sexual abuse I’ve gone through. Every marriage, I feel like, people are walking in with these huge loads on their back of trauma and sexual baggage. You talk about this in this free download, your e-book. Are people having more baggage today than they’ve ever had? I’m thinking they have.

Dave Willis:It certainly feels like that. I think it’s always been there—people have always had sexual baggage; and maybe, in generations past, it wasn’t talked about enough—but I do think the prevalence of pornography has fueled that.

Ann:Me too.

Dave Willis:Because now, it’s like we’re, as a culture, supercharged, related to sex. The sexual imagery that causes us to look at people as objects to use rather than souls to be cherished; and then, that plays out in relationships; that plays out in abuse.

So many people are hurting; and man, my heart goes out to all of them. Because any form of sexual baggage—whether it’s a result of your own sinful choices; or abusive situations of sin that was inflicted on you through no fault of your own, someone else’s sin, where you were a victim—all of that carries such deep scars that takes time to heal. But God can bring healing to all of it; He really, really can.

Dave:Now, do you encourage couples to tell?—

Dave Willis:Oh, yeah.

Ashley:Absolutely.

Dave:—talk about it. It’s like: “One of those secrets you got to tell.” Do I talk about my past experiences?

Ann:Yeah, give us a tip of opening the conversation.

Dave:Help couples. I remember one time Ann and I, in our first year of marriage, we went to a wedding. We’re sitting there; I can still see the church; it’s in our hometown. We thought, “You tell each other everything”; so we’re newlyweds. Ann, I think, turned to me, and said, “Anybody here that you slept with before we were dating?” I’m like, “Yeah, her.” And I was like, “That was probably not a wise thing.” It felt like I was being naked and unashamed. But the way it happened, she was like, “Oh, great.”

Ann:Well, I wanted details. I didn’t need to know details, guys.

Ashley:Right.

Dave:So coach couples: “How do you bring that—whether it’s abuse—again, Ann told me that part; and I just dismissed it, like, ‘Well, that was 20 years ago; you’re good.’ Had no idea: ‘You’re not good.’” So yeah, coach couples: “What do they do?”

Dave Willis:There’s a massive difference between deception and discretion.

So deception is intentionally trying to keep a secret, which there’s no place for that marriage; but discretion says, “I’ll tell you anything that you want to know, but I want to help protect both of us from sharing details that you might regret knowing. You have a right to them if you want them, but let’s be wise about this. I don’t necessarily want to relive and dig up all of these details that I’ve found healing from, and forgiveness from, even though you have a right to them if you want them. I don’t want to put those into your mind.”

Ann:It’s a good way to say it.

Dave Willis:“But again, ‘You have a right…’” It’s not I’m preventing you from knowing; you have full access to everything. But sometimes, the discretion part, saying, “Yeah, I have full access. But there are certain details I need; and then, there are other details that would only hurt me to have; it wouldn’t help. It wouldn’t help us grow closer. It would be an unnecessary, hurtful detail.” You two, together, have to work through maybe what that looks like.

Ashley:And I would say the willingness has to be there to give as many details as your spouse wants. So it’s up to/you need to ask your spouse: “How detailed do you want me to be?” Because if you decide for them, they feel like you’re holding something back—that’s the key—because again, it could be nothing. Maybe, you’re not even holding anything; but they’re going to assume the worst. So just asking them and being willing to share to the detail they would like. It might be that you start sharing some details; and they’re like, “Wait a minute; I don’t want that picture. Just kind of give me the main facts here; and then, we can do our best to move on from that.”

Ann:That’s good.

Dave:What if it’s sexual abuse?

Dave Willis:I think you have to share it for your own healing, first off. The many friends we’ve had, who’ve confided in us sexual abuse—there were two girls who used to babysit for us—and I’ll share their story, because they’ve shared it publicly at this point; precious girls—they, all through their teenage years, were babysitting for us; really, part of our family. One, we would even sometimes take on trips with us to watch our kids.

They came to us in early adulthood, and said, “Listen, this story’s going to come out. We wanted you guys to know from us first.” Basically, their stepfather, through their entire adolescence, had been abusing them in the worst kind of ways. And then, even making them accessible to some of his friends in just a grotesque, unimaginable way. All this had come out. There was now a trial; and several of these men are in prison, where they belong. But they were living with this, doing life with us and with the church; and we had no idea. How heartbreaking it was.

Ashley:Their mother had no idea.

Dave Willis:Their mother had no idea.

When all this came out, it was so heartbreaking to think, “Man, we could have done more to help protect them.” But abusers try to get into the minds of those they are abusing, and say, “You can’t tell anybody.”

Ashley:—and “You’re damaged now”; I think that’s common.

Dave Willis:Yeah, they try to attach shame or manipulation.

I’m telling you: you start taking your power back when you tell somebody. It took one of these girls telling, at the time, her boyfriend, who’s now her husband.

Ashley:And that’s what got her to finally tell her mother.

Dave Willis:And he helped; he walked along with her, and said, “I’m going to be with you this whole time, but we got to tell the story. You’ve got to tell your mom.”

You’ve got to tell, and you got to talk to somebody. If you’re married, you got to start with your spouse. There can’t be any secrets.

For me, we had to have some awkward conversations. My first sexual experience was when I was five with a cousin of mine; she was the same age. It was initiated by her. Now, looking back, I realized almost certainly she was being abused and acting out what was happening to her. It created all this confusion in me; and then, in us.

Tragically, she—not to make this really dark, but this is just part of my story—she and her father were killed in a drowning accident several years later, which created so much more confusion in me. I had this bond—this unnatural bond—with this person, and I didn’t know how to process any of it. I didn’t realize, until much later, how profound that whole experience, and how confusing, and the shame that I had attached to all of that. I was way too young to process and never really talked about how that played out. I think was even maybe part of leading me into pornography and some of those other things—not to make excuses for any of it—but just talking about it was so uncomfortable. Even something that was so far in the distant past; it felt like a different lifetime ago.

Ashley:And it was many years—we were many years married until he told me about that—and I didn’t have any idea. I knew about her passing away with her father, and all that, just how heartbreaking that was. I think there just came a time, where you felt like, “I need to talk about this.” I remember you saying, later on: “It’s like a weight.” You didn’t realize the weight you were carrying. You don’t know, because you get used to it; it feels normal.

Ann:It’s like wearing a coat that you’ve been wearing your whole life.

Ashley:Yeah, exactly; exactly. And even though there wasn’t something that happened, where he’s like, “I need to tell Ashley,”—this is the thing with sexual abuse: you didn’t do anything wrong. I think, sometimes, people think, “What did I do to have this happen?” And it’s like: “No, no; this is something horrible that happened to you,” and “God wants you to find healing,” and “It breaks His heart.”

Dave told me later, after telling me, it was like a weight lifted; but then, it actually brought us even closer together. It gives me, like you said, we’re sharing that burden. I know more—I know him more—of what he’s been through, and he’s going to know more about what I’ve gone through. It kind of opens that door, more and more, the more that we’re willing to share these things with each other and have that vulnerability.

Ann:Well, as I watched even in this small group that I had, this woman sharing her story—she’s got four kids, sharing this story of this horrible thing that happened back in college, where there was trauma for her—and at the end, after she had confessed it, we all gathered around her, and laid hands on her, and prayed for her. You could just see this—this is the community God has put us around—that we can help as we bring it into the light. God just heals us.

You’re right, Ashley, there’s a weight that’s lifted that you can’t even explain, like, “Wow, this is what freedom feels like. I’ve allowed people to see the pain that I’ve gone through, my scars; and they still love me.”

Dave Willis:That’s so beautiful.

Dave:I know that, for me, when Ann shared her abuse story, I felt so privileged. It’s like, “This is something really hard to share with anybody. Now, she’s sharing it with her husband.” Again, at first, I was like, “O, it’s no big deal.” I was so naïve; and then, I realized, through the journey, “I get to be her partner. I get to be part of God using me to be part of her healing.”

Ashley:Right!

Ann:And you’re just praying over me.

Dave:That’s what happens in a marriage.

Ann:It was like the most intimate thing you could have done is praying for that.

Dave:Yeah; I’m hoping people, listening to this episode, say, “Okay, today’s the day; I’m not going to carry this anymore. I’ve got to tell my spouse”—maybe, some women; some men—“and start the journey.” I would encourage you to do it.

Dave Willis:Lay that baggage down you’re never meant to carry. Jesus wants to free you of that. And man, the freedom of just being able to let go of that is so amazing.

Dave:And let me just add: go to FamilyLifeToday.com and get a copy of—they’re free!—9 Days to Great Sex.

Dave Willis:That’s right.

Ashley:That’s right.

Dave:Go to our show notes; there’ll be a link there.

We couldn’t get into some things we’d really like to get into in the back of your book—actually, it’s all through your book—you guys are naked and unashamed, that’s why it’s called naked marriage. We’re going to do a special podcast version—

Dave Willis:—unfiltered.

Dave:—unfiltered—with Dave and Ashley Willis. That’s what we’ll call it; that would get people interested. If you want to hear that episode—and I know you’re going, “I’m not missing that one,”—that’s at FamilyLifeToday.com; or wherever you listen to your podcasts, it’ll be on there: FamilyLife Today with Dave and Ashley Willis, “Unfiltered.”

Ann:As we’re talking about this, you may be wondering if we have anything else or any other ways we can help you. You can go to FamilyLife.com/MarriageHelp. We have some of our best resources there for you—and it’s free—that you can get some answers.

FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife®, a Cru® Ministry.

Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.

If you’ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?

Copyright © 2025 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.

www.FamilyLife.com