“Help! I’m Broke”: Bob & Linda Lotich

Dave: Okay, driving over here, thinking about this interview, I thought, “You know, there are two things that I am comfortable talking about in a sermon, like as a pastor on stage—or on radio in a podcast—

Ann: Okay.

Dave: —but I’m not comfortable talking about them in our home: two topics.” You know what one of them is, because we’re going to talk about it today.

Ann: —money and sex.

Dave: How did you know?! [Laughter]

Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Dave Wilson.

Ann: And I’m Ann Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on the FamilyLife^® app.

Dave: This is FamilyLife Today.

Ann: Well, I didn’t know about money; because that’s the one I avoid. I feel like you always want to talk about money and how I’m spending too much. [Laughter]

Dave: I do want to talk about it, but I sort of don’t want to talk about it. It’s sort of a scary topic.

Ann: Do you think that’s true for a lot of couples?—a lot of people?

Dave: I don’t know; that’s what we’re going to find out today.

I think I can walk out on stage, and talk about sex/God’s perspective on sex; but then, when we’re in the kitchen, and we want to talk about it, I say, “Okay, that’s scarier to me.” I think money’s the same—I’ve done many sermons on money: “Give your money to the church!”—but when you sit and say: “Let’s figure out a budget,” and “Let’s be careful,” and “Let’s have a plan,” I just get—

Ann: I didn’t even know this about you.

Dave: Well here we are. You know, I tell you things in front of the world, instead of—[Laughter]

But here’s what we’re talking about today: we have Bob and Linda Lotich. You guys probably talk about money all the time; you’ve written a book called Simple Money, Rich Life: Achieve True Financial Freedom and Design a Life of Eternal Impact.

We read it; and it started a conversation, even yesterday, about money. Welcome to FamilyLife Today.

Bob: Yes, thank you for having us.

Linda: Excited to be here.

Dave: You guys have never been here; right?

Bob: No, this is amazing.

Linda: No, this is really awesome.

Ann: You have three kids who are how old?

Linda: Three, five, and eight.

Ann: So this is a good little adventure for you.

Linda: It is.

Dave: And you’re out of the house—

Linda: I know—kid-less—it’s amazing.

Dave: Who’s watching them? Is somebody taking care of them?

Linda: Yes, we have some friends.

Bob: Yes, we have friends watching them. We just posted on Stories, walking through the airport without kids, yesterday: “It’s amazing!” [Laughter] It’s so much different going on a flight without kids.

Linda: Yes.

Ann: You were sharing something with us, off-air, about money. I thought it was good what you shared.

Bob: Yes, I was just telling you guys that so many people come into money with all kinds of guilt and shame—we’re really trying to be the opposite—we’re trying to be people, who can cheerlead alongside you, and help you on your financial journey, who aren’t going to be dousing you with guilt and shame, and making you feel bad for buying that Starbucks^® or whatever the thing might be.

Linda: I have a Starbucks right now, so—[Laughter]

Bob: There you go.

Ann: That’s right; look at you! And it’s okay, and you’re not being shamed.

Linda: Yes; I used to be. I actually used to feel really shameful about buying Starbucks, because I had a little bit of an addiction; I think it was the addiction I felt shameful about. I used to hide them and think, “If Bob doesn’t see it, then we don’t have to talk about it.” [Laughter]

Ann: Are we talking about hiding things in our marriages?

Linda: Oh, well—[Laughter]

Dave: We need to talk about money, obviously. When you guys think about money, do you guys approach it differently? Are you completely the same or different?

Bob: Oh, no.

Linda: Oh—

Bob: No; we’re very different.

Linda: We’re night-and-day different; night and day.

Ann: Do you think that’s typical?

Bob: Yes.

Ann: You do?

Bob: I mean, we’ve talked to so many different couples about money—and because we all have different upbringings—and even if you’re from exactly the same socioeconomic class/the same neighborhood, how your parents teach about money or what they don’t teach about money, which you inherently pick up—it’s just so different. So it’s inevitable that almost all of us, when we get married, that we have differing views on it.

You can take this wherever you want, but I think one of the most important things is to try to fight for unity in this area. You guys know how important unity is; but I think, especially in terms of finances, it’s just so crucial; because it’s just a game-changer when you guys are on the same page, pushing together, towards whatever God has for you to do.

Dave: That is, you guys have to fight for unity?

Bob: We did.

Dave: What did that look like?

Linda: I’m a little bit more like you, where I’m like, “I don’t want to talk about it.”  Before I got married, I prayed that I would marry someone, who was good at math, because—

Ann: I thought you were going to say, “rich.” [Laughter]

Linda: Ooohhh; well, I mean, yes—in my head, that was there too—but—

Bob: —she didn’t get that.

Dave: —good at math?

Ann: —somebody good at math—

Linda: Yes, because that’s all I knew to pray.

Dave: I can’t imagine this prayer: “God, I want a man good at math.”

Linda: Yes.

Dave: Okay.

Linda: Literally, that’s exactly what I’d say.

Ann: Why?

Linda: Because I am the type of person, who will get numbers—add them up on a calculator three different times—and get three different numbers. [Laughter] So you can imagine my financial situation, just based on that; so I was like, “If I can just get someone, who can figure that out”; right?

Ann: See, I’m not good at math either.

Linda: Really?

Ann: Yes.

Linda: See?—yes.

Ann: Yes.

Linda: It’s just not my strong suit.

Dave: I think you two are alike.

Linda: I try; it’s just not there.

Dave: So is that what God brought you?

Ann: So Bob: you were attracted to Bob, because he could do math.

Linda: He was good at math—which is true—it’s just funny.

Bob: She just quizzed me with a math problem yesterday—

Linda: I do.

Bob: —in front of our eight-year-old.

Linda: It’s just fun for me; because I’m like, “I can’t do this mental math, but he gets it.”

Dave: Your first date you didn’t ask him a math question; did you? “Can you give me the square root of…”

Linda: No; but when we met, he was like, “I’m going to get my finances in order.” And I was like, “Ohh!”

Ann: —“That’s attractive.”

Linda: Right; so he didn’t have them in order yet.

Ann: Wait; is this after his car broke down on the highway and he had $7.00 in his account?

Linda: Yes.

Bob: Yes.

Linda: This was just after that, maybe a few months; yes.

Bob: Yes; pretty fresh.

Linda: So he was like, “I’m going to make this happen. I’m going to figure out my finances and get things in order.” That was like, “Oh, that’s nice”; because almost everybody else our age, [whom] we were hanging out with, was like, “We’re just figuring out life”; you know? They just didn’t really care much [about finances]; and I knew that marrying someone, who had some ambition, was really important to me.

Dave: That’s a good thing.

Ann: Well, Bob, you share the story at the beginning of the book in your introduction.

Bob: Yes; I was down in Sarasota—basically, on a seven-month sabbatical that God had kind of called me to—didn’t know anybody down there. I’m living like the Instagram-er’s dream before Instagram; because it’s like: “I’m in a beach town. I have a convertible. It’s pay day,”—I just got paid; it’s the day before my 21^st birthday—my friends are flying down the next day. So I mean, 75—

Ann: You’re living the life.

Bob: Everything’s going great. The truth is that I’d been hiding my financial mess, just kind of like pushing it back, pretending like it wasn’t there. And then, that day, it was like—“dun, dun, dun,”—and all that came to a head. [Laughter] As I’m driving down, right in front of one of the minor league ballparks there—like half an hour before a game, so there were all kinds of cars coming—I’m driving on that road; the car stops so quickly/dies so quickly in the middle of the road; I can’t even pull it over. I remember trying to start the car; I couldn’t get it started. Everybody’s driving by, staring at me, gawking.

Dave: You’re “That guy.” [Laughter]

Bob: I’m “That guy.”

Linda: “That guy.”

Bob: I don’t know much about cars; I don’t know what to do. I ended up—actually, there’s an officer directing traffic into the ballpark—I’m like, “Hey, can you help me get my car over to the side of the road?” He was like, “Nope; I’m directing traffic.” [Laughter] So I grabbed the wheel, started doing the push-the-car thing, while turning the wheel, which it’s harder than it looks; it’s not real easy.

Dave: Yes, I’ve done it; not easy.

Ann: Good thing you had a convertible.

Bob: Yes; so I end up pushing it over to the side of the road. As I get in the car and sit down, I realize, “Alright, we got a problem here”; because my car is broken down, which is bad enough; but I realized I had just gotten paid—I was on my way to the bank; I needed to get that paycheck to the bank and cash it—so that I could go pay my rent that was due in three hours.

As I’m thinking through all this, I’m like, “If I don’t get that rent paid in three hours, she’s going to tack on a $50 late fee”; and my paycheck is so small; I don’t have the extra $50. I have to pick up my friends from the airport in the morning: “How am I going to get this car towed, repaired, do that?”—all this stuff.

Linda: He’s stressed out.

Ann: Linda, it’s God’s grace that you didn’t meet him at this point.

Linda: I know.

Bob: Exactly.

Linda: I know.

Bob: It was one of those moments, where I remember sitting in the car, and starting to have my freak-out moment—and just starting to realize that because I worked at a bank, and anybody who would ask me, I would have said, “I’m good at money—I’ve got this—I’m good at managing money.”

There have been surveys done that say that 80 percent of Americans say that they’re good at managing money—but when you look at the number of people living, paycheck to paycheck,—

Linda: —we’re in the 20 percent. [Laughter]

Bob: —it doesn’t really add up. I was one of those people, for sure.

I remember sitting there, grabbling the steering wheel, as I start realizing what’s going on; and my financial world is kind of crashing before me. Anyway, in that moment, I had tears coming down my eyes; I’m like, “God, I need help. My path/my plan has led me to this point. If You have a better plan, I want to jump ship and go Your direction now.” It was just a turning-point moment for me, where it was like everything changed.

Ann: It was like you hit your bottom/your financial bottom.

Bob: Yes; so many of us need to go through that—unfortunately, for those of us with thick skulls, like me—so that was the moment.

Dave: It’s good that you went through it at 21.

Ann: Yes.

Bob: Yes; I’m thankful for that—that it’s not now—some people never get to that point, and it’s a constant struggle.

Ann: And then you met Linda soon after that?

Dave: That was your answer!

Bob: Yes.

Linda: I know.

Dave: God says, “Here’s Linda. She’s going to get you, good at math.”

Linda: I know; that moment changed my life, too; you know?—because if that wouldn’t have happened—I feel like it completely changed the trajectory of his life. Now, here we are, talking about finances,—

Bob: Yes.

Linda: —which is just funny.

Dave: What did happen? How did you get wisdom about this?—not that it wasn’t Linda—I’m sure she was part of it.

Bob: No; we’ll get into more of that—

Linda: No, I wasn’t. [Laughter]

Dave: You weren’t?

Bob: —because—no, she actually added a—this is a little side note: “We’ll come back to that.”

But the first thing for me was realizing that the Bible said something about money: “Whoa! A book, thousands of years old, has current wisdom for today, applicable stuff that we can take and apply to our lives today.” That was really crazy to me, as a 20-year-old, just seeing that. As I started a thing of just reading Proverbs, once a day/whatever—just reading that month, after month, after month—just continuing to go through it: fill yourself, because there’s just so much wisdom in there about money and finances. That was first part.

And then, getting hungry for knowledge, I started reading as many books as I could. This was pre-YouTube—but any kind of—probably, pre-podcast, too—but anything I could get my hands on: so any videos, magazines, books about money, just admitting that I didn’t know as much as I thought; and then, going from there.

Ann: I bet that that’s true for most of us; isn’t it?—especially as a 21-year-old?

Bob: Yes.

Ann: We’re just kind of carrying the habits that our parents were carrying, and we’re doing what our parents did. But you even, biblically, didn’t know that God had a plan; you talk about that in your book.

Bob: Yes; I was a pretty new Christian at that point. I just didn’t know the Bible said something about money; it was pretty eye-opening.

Ann: Yes.

Dave: Well the truth is—and you know better than anybody—40-year-olds, 50-year-olds, 60-year-olds are in the same place; it isn’t just 20-year-olds.

Bob: Exactly.

Ann: Yes.

Bob: And many times, worse; because it’s been years of accumulating problems, or hiding things in the background, or whatever.

Ann: —and debt.

Bob: —and debt, yes.

Dave: So then, when you guys get married, are you starting out your marriage with a financial plan?

Bob: I’m on my way. I’m not quite the blind leading the blind; it’s like I can see some shapes or something. [Laughter] I get a little bit—one step ahead of her—that’s basically where we were.

Linda: Yes.

Bob: But I decided—we both brought a lot of credit card debt; and car loans; and me, a student loan into the marriage—I realized we have all this money going towards our debts each month. The best thing for us to do, to get ahead financially, is to cut out as much of that/to reduce our monthly expenditures.

We decided, “Alright; we’re going to start going after paying off our debt.” Linda was a trooper, because—

Ann: What did that look like, Linda? Did you guys come up with a plan, like, “We’re not spending here…”?

Linda: Well,—

Bob: —she didn’t come up with any plan.

Linda: I didn’t come up with any plan; I basically said, “Run it by me, and tell me what’s going on; so that I can just be in on the loop.” Because when we got married, I was like, “I don’t want to have to ever think about this again.” That was my stance, so that’s why I wanted to marry someone who was good at math.

Ann: Yes.

Linda: In my head, I was like, “I need someone to take over my money”; because I didn’t even know how to take a step forward. We get married; and I just basically said, “Here’s the mess; tell me what we’re going to do,” which worked out well for a little while; because I didn’t have to think about it.

Bob: I was excited to take control and to make a plan.

Linda: He was like, “Honey, here’s what we’re going to do...” To him, it was okay that there was a mess as long as he could start seeing some progress.

Ann: It’s that “control” word that he just said—

Linda: Yes.

Ann: —“taking control”—okay; so then, what happened?

Linda: Taking control; right—and he wasn’t being controlling—if that makes sense.

Ann: Yes; he had a plan.

Linda: He was just like, “We’re going to figure out how to fix this.”

Bob: Well, yes; sometimes, it’s better with one chef in the kitchen instead of two.

Linda: Right.

Bob: I thought, “This is great if there’s no obstruction, and she’s—I can set the budget however I want.”

Linda: So we cut back in every area. I went from spending about 150 percent of my paycheck every month—

Bob: —well, because she lived at home.

Linda: Right; [Laughter] you know what I’m talking about; don’t you?

Ann: I do. [Laughter]

Dave: That’s not a good thing; you guys are laughing about it. [Laughter]

Linda: We’re okay with it now; we’re comfortable with this.

Ann: That’s right.

Dave: So you were living at home but still spending 150 percent.

Linda: Oh, yes; 150 easy. And then we cut it back to about what?—3 percent?

Bob: Your monthly spending money, yes; it was such an insane reduction.

Linda: It was an insane reduction.

Ann: How do you do that?

Linda: I mean, I cried a lot, but I was so relieved. [Laughter] I was so relieved to not have to think about it anymore.

Bob: I don’t recommend the extreme approach.

Ann: Did you do anything?

Linda: Listen, it worked for us; it really worked for us. I don’t think that this will work for everybody, by any means.

Bob: Yes, it was more extreme than it needed to be.

Ann: What does that look like?

Bob: Okay, so she spent a lot of money: you went out to eat all the time.

Linda: I went out to eat all the time, yes.

Bob: You bought coffees all the time; you bought clothes all the time.

Linda: Yes; so it was those three main things that I had to just way cut down.

Bob: And she had a small paycheck, very entry-level.

Linda: But I will tell you this: I had/previous to this point, I had a flat tire on my car—this is what I learned at that point—when one tire goes flat, you, at least, have to replace two so that they’re even. I was like, “You’ve got to be kidding me! I only have a problem with one; why do I need to get two?” I was so annoyed.

Ann: How old were you at this time?

Linda: Oh, 20; I was so mad.

Ann: And your parents weren’t picking up any of your bills or anything?

Linda: No, no.

Ann: You’re on your own.

Linda: I’m on my own. They housed me, and they paid for my toothpaste and stuff like that.

Ann: Yes.

Linda: So I replaced these tires; it just stressed me out so bad.

Well, after we get married, something like this happens—something happens with one of the cars—the tire had a nail hole in it or whatever. I remember that same feeling of being like, “How are we going to pay for this?”

Bob: She came to me, freaking out.

Linda: It felt like someone was sitting on my chest. I just didn’t know what was going to happen; because I knew how little money we already had, because I was spending three percent of what I had previously been spending.

And he said, “Well, the money is already there. It’s already sitting there, waiting for us to spend it.” I was like, “What?” It was a great moment.

Ann: He was like your hero in that.

Linda: He was my hero.

Dave: There’s a concept—huh?—"I have money put aside.”

Bob: Well, yes. We had money set aside for car repairs. I didn’t want to spend it, but it’s there. And she was freaking out; I’m like, “Hey it’s going to be okay.”

Linda: I was like—

Ann: You’re like, “You’re the most attractive man I’ve ever met in my life.” [Laughter]

Linda: Oh, totally! Totally!

Bob: I got so much sexier in that moment; it was great. [Laughter]

Linda: Yes, it was a great moment; because all of a sudden, this thing that I’d been panicking about was no longer a problem. That sold me; I was like, “Okay, if I can’t buy my Starbucks every day, that’s fine. This is so worth it to me, to not have to be that stressed out.”

Dave: That feeling of the weight on your shoulders is real—

Linda: Yes.

Dave: —that money stress—whatever you want to call it.

Bob: Yes.

Dave: I’ve felt it. I’m sure probably every person listening has felt it.

Ann: This is your thing, Dave.

Dave: We still feel it.

Ann: I’m thinking, “Our marriage is falling apart,”—and Dave is sleeping fine—and I’m wide awake. But if the money situation is falling apart, you cannot sleep; and I’m sleeping like a baby—

Dave: Oh, it’s a weight.

Linda: Yes.

Ann: —because I know that Dave will handle it.

Dave: It can affect every single part of your life. You could be yelling at your kids or your spouse, and it’s really connected to:—

Ann: —the fear of money.

Dave: — “I’m in debt; we can’t pay for the tires or pay the mortgage.” It’s a real thing; right?

Bob: This is why it’s so important.

The trailer we did for our book—that is how we started it—just talking about: “I just learned this one thing: that no one wants to talk about money. But it’s so important, and it affects us in so many different ways, in so many aspects of our life, that I think, especially believers—when we understand that it’s not just about us—we have the opportunity: ‘Yes, let’s take care of our families’; but to go beyond that and to impact eternity by supporting different ministries,”—like yours.

To be in that position to be able to do that—that’s just been such a drive of ours when we realize what’s at stake—it’s really important; we need to be talking about it; we need to be learning about it.

Dave: It’s interesting that you, as we started talking about this, you immediately started talking about debt.

Bob: Yes.

Dave: We don’t need to start with debt, but it is a big part of the plan; right?

Bob: Yes; it’s like baggage slowing you from wherever you’re trying to go, whatever your financial goals are/whatever that looks like.

Linda: We read this book one time that was talking about: “If Jesus Himself appeared in many of the churches/in any of the churches, and said, ‘I want you to give your money to this…’ they would maybe not be able to say, ‘Yes,’ because they have a different master, which is the MasterCard,” which I just thought was so interesting. When you have someone else expecting your money, it’s hard to obey what God is asking you to do.

Dave: Right.

Bob: I was just going to say: I had a pastor friend, who had someone, who felt like they were called to come work on staff—and went through the process—and basically, got to the point of: “We’re signing papers and have salary negotiations” or whatever. He realizes, “I can’t accept the job. It’s too much of a pay cut, and I have too much debt. If I didn’t have all this debt, I could take it.” So he ended up not taking the job.

How many of us are in that situation, where God has something for us to do; but because of that, we’re held back? I just don’t want to be that; I don’t want to be held up by it; you know?

Dave: And we think the way to get out of debt is: “I need more money.

Bob: Yes.

Ann: Yes.

Dave: “I need a bigger salary,” “I need a bonus,”—whatever—"I need more money.” Is that the answer?

Bob: That’s the interesting thing, is that we all think that money solves money problems. But it actually, in many cases, doesn’t. I know that anybody listening, is like, “Well, of course; but if I had more money…”

Dave: Yes.

Bob: And that’s the thing—you and I both know—you worked as an NFL Chaplain for years; so many of these guys make huge salaries. Like we were talking beforehand, over 50 percent of NFL/NBA players, after they retire, are broke. So the answer isn’t just having tons of money.

You need to, first, learn how to manage/steward well what God has entrusted you with; and then, as you do, then you can handle higher levels; and can use it with wisdom. You can use it to advance His kingdom. You can use it to take your family on a vacation, without guilt, or whatever that thing might be.

But we have to start where we are. This is just the parable of the talents—just managing what God has entrusted to us—and to do that well. It’s completely reasonable. You would never hire someone to watch your cat—and then, them not take care of that—and then say, “Oh, okay; now, take care of my three kids.” If you can’t take care of my cat, well, I’m not going to give you the things that I really value.

Dave: Cats are hard to take care of.

Ann: Interesting.

Dave: But the truth is, when you think back on—we just talked about it: I’m spending 150 percent of my salary down to 5 percent—

Linda: Yes.

Dave: —you weren’t making a lot of money; you weren’t making more money. But as you look back now, are you glad you did it?—even though you said you were crying because it was hard to do. [Laughter]

Linda: Right.

Bob: Yes.

Linda: No, I’m really grateful. That was kind of what motivated us. Early in this process, what motivated me was the idea of things not always being this way; so if things were always going to be that way, it would have been a lot harder for me to stick with it.

Bob: Yes; we knew it was a temporary measure of just paying off this debt.

Linda: Right; and that’s the only reason it worked, if I’m being honest. Otherwise, I would have had a bad day, and been like, “Forget this; I’m going to the mall.”

Dave: You have an end goal; you can see the finish line.

Linda: Yes.

Bob: I think this is what’s so difficult—is that so many people, when they start making any sacrifice—we’ll talk about finances here: in terms of paying off debt, or whatever a thing might be, we aren’t thinking through the lens of this being a temporary measure. We’re just thinking, “I just have to give this up,” without/and we’re not thinking about an end date. When you put an end date on it, you say, “Okay, I’m going to do this for one year,” it becomes so much more palatable.

Ann: Yes.

Dave: Yes.

Linda: Yes; or three months.

Bob: Alright; “Well, I can do that for a year,” or “…for three months,” or whatever.

Linda: Yes, whatever it is.

Bob: And then decide: “I’ll do it for three months; and then, at that point, I’ll decide if I’m going to continue,”—just that. And then, normally, at that point, you’ll have the momentum; and you’ll be like, “Okay, well I can do this another three months.”

Ann: “Where do we start?”

Dave: There’s a married couple listening, right now, going, “Okay, our finances are in disarray.

Ann: —“and we’re not talking about it.”

Dave: “Where do we start?”

Bob: Okay; I think the best thing—we’ve been talking about this a good bit lately—is having a conversation about the conversation; because there are so many of us in this cycle of our marriage, where it’s like we cannot even talk to our spouses about money, because it just immediately—

Dave: Yes, that’s where we started the show.

Ann: Yes.

Bob: —turns into a fight. Do you want to explain this?

Linda: Yes; “So how can we have this conversation without one of us freaking out?” So whether that’s: “Well, I have to go get six more jobs,” or “That’s it; we’re selling the house and the cars and downsizing to a tiny apartment,” usually I recommend ice cream is a great way to—[Laughter]

Ann: And maybe eating it out of the house so that you’re—

Bob: Yes; or go out on a date.

Linda: Right; on a date; get the kids away from you.

Dave: I like how you said you’re going to talk about money: “So go spend some on ice cream.” [Laughter]

Bob: No, but—

Ann: I just like the ice cream factor.

Bob: —if that’s what needs to happen; right?

Linda: No; but if this isn’t going to be an environment—where you feel safe or where you feel like this isn’t an awful chore—“I’m out.”

Dave: So get some ice cream so you can sit down—and at least: “Have something I like,”—and “Let’s have a conversation.”

Linda: Right; and start off with: “How can we talk about this without us freaking out? Because that’s where we need to go with this.”

Shelby: You’re listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Bob and Linda Lotich on FamilyLife Today. If this is an overwhelming topic for you, stick around, because Ann is going to share the very first step in just a second.

I wanted to remind you first that we’d love to send you a copy of Bob and Linda’s book called Simple Money, Rich Life. It’s going to be our “Thank you,” to you when you partner, financially, today with us. You can give, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com or by calling 800-358-6329; that’s 800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY.”

Okay, here’s Ann with what I think we can all agree is a good place to start when it comes to talking about finances.

Ann: And I would add one more as we close: “Start praying about this.”

Linda: Absolutely.

Bob: Yes.

Ann: If you can’t pray about it, as a couple, start praying on your own, like, “Lord, I need wisdom; I need help; we need help. Guide us and show us.”

Dave: Yes; and I would just add this: “We’re going to end today, like, ‘Okay, start the conversation with a cup of coffee or some ice cream; and then, what?’ That’s tomorrow.”

Shelby: Do you ever think to yourself, “Ugh, I can’t afford that.” Well, maybe you can. So listen tomorrow on FamilyLife Today as Dave and Ann are joined, again, by Bob and Linda Lotich to tell you how to think outside the box when it comes to your finances.

On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I’m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

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