How Christians Find Their Self-Worth: Ruth Chou Simons

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How Christians Find Their Self-Worth

Guest:Ruth Chou Simons

From the series:When Strivings Cease (Day 2 of 2)

Air date:December 17, 2024

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Ruth:I think the beauty of God’s grace is resting; and if you are not in awe or in wonder over it, it might be that you haven’t really reckoned with why you need amazing grace in the first place.

Dave:Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Dave Wilson.

Ann:And I’m Ann Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

Dave:So previously, we had a conversation with Ruth Chou Simons—she’s sitting right here again, talking about striving—and two women who were strivers. I’m sitting over here; I’m the guy who never strives, but you [two] struggle with that.

One of the things I realized—and I didn’t realize this, Ruth, until I was in my 50s, I think—this is something I should have realized in my 20s, but I spent a lifetime striving for approval, never really…We talked yesterday about the root: “What’s at the foundation of why you’re thinking and doing certain things?” I had a dad walk out when I was seven years old, so Mom and Dad went through a divorce. There was alcohol, and adultery, and all that. And so I spent my life, because dad was gone—and it’s a pretty common story for a lot of people who go through something like that—but I never realized: I’m performing as a musician; I’m performing as an athlete. And the whole time, I’m like: “You see me?” “You see me?” “Am I good?” And so I would sit here, and say, “I’m not a striver”; but I was really striving for something.

Ann:You’re a performer.

Dave:Yeah, I’m a performer; and I was gifted to be able to perform in those different areas. So often, I felt like, “Oh, I’m good.” But I think I never felt approved from the one who mattered the most; and that was my dad. He was never there. And when he did show up, it didn’t seem to matter that much,

Ann:And then, I was helpful: I was telling you how you aren’t measuring up and how you are failing as—

Dave:—a husband.

Ann:Yeah, I totally did that.

Dave:Yeah, it led to a book. But anyway—

Ruth:Well, isn’t it amazing that when—Ann, you and I were talking about being strivers ourselves—I think one of the key elements to being a striver is that there is a measuring stick. And so it’s really easy to use that measuring stick on everybody else—

Ann:—everyone else.

Ruth:—and the people closest to you. Because, as you measure them, you’re basically saying, “You are part of me feeling good about myself. You are part of me making sure that I attain the things that I’m striving for,”—the worth, the value, the security—whatever it is that you’re like, “I need this.” Suddenly, your spouse and your kids are supposed to measure up so that you can get there faster.

Ann:Totally. Yes, especially as a pastor’s wife.

Ruth: Oh, my goodness; yes.

Ann:And now, you’re the pastor’s family that they’re looking at; so you’re trying to make your kids—and you have six boys—”How many years have you guys been married?”

Ruth: Twenty-six years.

Ann: So you’ve been in the ministry that whole time?

Ruth:Pretty much. I think there were only a few years that we were not actively ministering at the local church level; it was more at a school level.

Ann:So we bring our dysfunction into our families.

Ruth:Yes; yeah.

Dave:Previously, we ended with you sort of talking about how grace transforms. I think a lot of people hear that word, even in the church—even as a pastor, I thought I preached on it a lot; I’m not sure I understood the depths of it—but I’m not sure people really understand how to rest in life-transforming grace.

I’m looking at two women, who were strivers; I don’t think that’s your name anymore. So help us understand how grace—

Ruth:I feel like I’m a recovering perfectionist and somebody who is trying to understand grace more and more. And here’s the thing: grace is a beautiful word that sometimes we just get so used to—because we’re seeing it on coffee mugs; we’re seeing it on a t-shirt: “I’m fueled by a little grace and a lot of coffee,” or something—and we kind of bring it down to this level of: “I just need grace and coffee”; or we hear things: “Give yourself a little grace.”

And so we may not actually feel, in our day-to-day lives, the weight of how life-transforming God’s grace actually is. We might feel like grace is just a feeling; or it’s like being nice; or being nice to yourself; or giving yourself a pass. But the grace of God really started all the way back in Genesis. It started all the way when God said, ‘I’m going to make provision for that [sin]; in fact, I’m going to kill an animal so that there’s a covering for Adam and Eve’s nakedness.” He was already thinking, from the very beginning, how He would make provision for the lack in His children. When they could not measure up, when they could not be good enough, God already had a plan.

Jesus is the Savior, who could live the perfect life, and actually provide the very gift of grace—the welcome and the belonging in the presence of God—when we don’t deserve it. And that only is accomplished because of Christ’s perfect life, death, and resurrection in our daily lives. When we’re struggling with what somebody thought of us at that one meeting; or where we’re kind of like, “Why can’t I get through to my spouse?” When we’re arguing about something, it’s kind of hard, in that moment, to be like, “Because of the life, death, and resurrection of Christ, I will now, therefore, consider that maybe the way I said that was…”

We’re not analyzing it quite like that. A. W. Tozer made this comment—and a really well-said quote—“What comes into your mind when you think about God is the most important thing about you; because the truth is: ‘You will operate out of your beliefs.’” So if you believe that God sending Jesus is kind of like, “Oh, so we could have a friend,”—and He’s not Savior; He’s not your only way back to God—then, you may not take that seriously: your need for a Savior.

Ann:Oh, see, I think that’s good; because I remember doing some prayer with a woman. She said, “Ann, I want you to just close your eyes; and I want you to picture God.” Now, that’s different than Jesus; because Jesus, I’m like, “Oh, yeah; Jesus is grace.” And she’s like, “I want you just see Him in your mind’s eye; and then, I want you to describe Him to me.” I’m like, “Okay, I see Spirit. I see words around Him that are: ‘Just,’ ‘Holy,’ ‘Righteous.’” It’s almost like they’re in this wind of the presence of His Spirit.

And then, as I’m looking, I’m like, “Huh, that’s interesting; there are no words like ‘Grace’; there are no words like ‘Forgiveness’ and ‘Compassionate.’” And she said, “Now, just picture in your mind—I want you to picture God—now, I want you to approach God.” And I said, “Oh, I can’t!” It’s crazy how we can just do this in our imagination really quick. And she said, “Why can’t you get there?” And I said, “I feel like I’ve been working on this for years, but I’m on the ground; and I can’t get close because I’m unworthy.”

As you said, we can know grace; we can know the definition. I’ve been to seminary; so have you—but I couldn’t get it from up here [in my mind]—what grace is. I know what it is, biblically; “But how did you start getting it down into your heart?”

Dave:Or is it even—I don’t want to interrupt—but it’s almost like, when you said the Tozer quote, here’s what came to my mind—it’s probably heresy—but I thought, “Could it be another reframing?” His quote’s number one. Number two—as Wilson said, this idea—“The thoughts you have about yourself are the second most important thing about you.”

Ruth: Oh, that’s interesting.

Ann:So you’re saying God first; and then, second—

Dave:No; I mean, it’s like what he said is absolutely true.

Ruth:But he’s saying that that’s the flipside; that’s the other side.

Dave:We have to understand our identity right there. When you just said that, I thought, “You couldn’t approach Him because you feel worthless.” Your identity is how you think about yourself.

Ann:Yes, I see what you’re saying.

Dave:If you understand who God is, it should lead to: “Well, this is how He views me; so this is now my identity in Christ.”

Ruth:And I’d like to say, “You cannot have a new identity or believe what God says about you if you don’t actually believe what He says about Himself,” which is why, when you think about every Epistle writer in the New Testament, they spend the first chapter or two just talking about who God is and what He’s done. Because I think, when the letter is being read to the churches or to a pastor, when they’re getting this letter from Paul—when they’re getting this letter—they know that truth, but they’re being reminded.

Because here’s the thing: you can’t receive instruction unless you reframe your belief, and you remember what is true. Have you ever noticed that pattern?—that it always starts with who God is; and then, it goes into who we are in Christ; because it’s like, “What He says about Himself now leads to: ‘Well then, you are a new creation, too. You actually, because of what Jesus has done, now this is what is true about you.’”

Ann:It’s Ephesians 1-3.

Ruth:Exactly. But you don’t even get to the “Put on…” and “Put offs” until after all that.

I think, as believers—and I’ll just tell on myself—but I think, as women, we’re such doers; that sometimes, we just want to get to Chapter 4, where we know what to stop doing,—

Ann:—“What do I need to do?”

Ruth:—and what to start doing. I think there are—unfortunately, maybe, at least a few generations of women—who may have gotten caught up with the: “Just tell me what to do to stop this, and start this.” And we are just biblically illiterate enough that we don’t actually really love God for who He says He is. And so then, it’s really hard.

You could hear, all day long: “You’re the daughter of the king,” “You’re beloved; put on your crown.” It just feels real trite and silly because, unless the weight of the wonder and awe and the reverence—that true holy reverence that you just described Him—coming to Him and having holy fear—that’s good! But it needs to be followed up by: “You can walk straight into the throne room of grace, because of Jesus.” The grace of God is what takes you right in, and says, “Daughter, come on in. You are not sitting out there; you’re coming in.” He says, “Welcome”; and you don’t even have to be crawling on your hands and knees. You can come and really sit right on his lap, and say, “Hey, Abba Father.” That image, in your mind, changes when you actually go to the Word—when you actually really understand who He is—and you hear and receive what He says about you.

And so, when we think about this issue of striving, I think it’s hard because I’m a formula person. I would love if I was coming on this podcast, and saying, “The search is over. I’ve got the ten steps for how we can stop striving.” I mean, I’d be writing a New York Times bestseller if I had the formula for how we could all stop doing it. But the reality is, just like everything else that is spiritual, it actually starts with something that doesn’t happen once; and you’re done. It starts with remembering the truth: it starts with going to God, and saying, “What do I not know about You? I want to love You in a way that I haven’t known fully yet, because You’re inexhaustible; so I really need to know You.” I wonder—

Ann:How did you do that, Ruth? I’m thinking back on you, as a mom with six kids. You’re an author; you homeschooled for a while; you’re a speaker; you’re a podcaster; you’re doing so many things. “How did you learn that?” I’m sure it didn’t happen overnight.

Ruth:No; well, first of all, I think a huge part of my journey was that I heard the Sermon on the Mount preached. I think, when I realized, when Jesus is talking to the Pharisees; and He’s basically saying, “Even your good efforts aren’t good enough”; I think that was a starting point for me. It made me realize, “Oh, it’s not like you don’t commit adultery; you can’t even lust—what’s going on in your heart; it’s going on behind the scenes.” I think that made me realize, “Ooh, everything that Jesus is teaching is not a formula for success. It’s actually meant to be a window into your soul. It’s meant to cause you to go, ‘Okay, so if the rules don’t work, and I can’t just nail it by doing a good thing, I got to look at what’s going on in here.’”

Going back to this question of like, “Oh, well, that window made me realize I don’t really actually know what’s so great about grace.” We sing Amazing Grace, but I don’t think I was living like it wasn’t really all that amazing at all. And so for me, it started with some teaching on the Sermon on the Mount, realizing, “Oh, I’m kind of living like the Pharisees: kind of being religious, and going to church, and doing all the things that I think are going to make me pleasing to God; because I’m trying to earn favor here. And God’s really saying, ‘Okay, come to Me and receive the fact that you actually have to have a righteousness that you can’t even earn on your own, that you can’t even do on your own.’”

But then secondly, I would say, and I think actually reading Romans and not being afraid of how big and complex—I kind of am leaning into the microphone here, and thinking about my sister in Christ—and you brothers, too—but I’m just getting close, and holding out my cup of coffee, and want it to be like, “I know that’s not a glamorous answer: ‘Go read Romans.’” Because I know it’s like, “Oh, actually meet with a friend”; and yes, meet with a friend, and share—have an accountability for confessing: “I really am striving in this area,”—absolutely do that.

But I think, sometimes, we just need to be honest with each other, and say, “You will not understand how great grace is if you don’t study grace, if you don’t go and understand what God said, through His Word, what Jesus says about Himself.” For me, it really was reckoning with: “I want to really understand how I’ve been saved, why forgiveness through Christ is actually needed.” Because the more I understood that, the more I realized, “Oh, it doesn’t matter—if you were a straight-A student, or if you’ve never cheated, or if you always have the right thing to say, and show up prepared, and you’re never late—all the things that I kind of feel like: ‘I’m really better than you expect; I’m actually a great person; don’t You love me?”; that’s not good enough; it’s just not.

So I guess, maybe, this is sister-to-sister—for any of my sisters, in Christ, who are listening in—I guess I would throw out the challenge of: “There are lots of tools to help us stop striving, and a lot of ways in which we can find some accountability, and even take a small step—even taking a small step of stopping ourselves when we go, “Oh, wow; yelling at everybody in the room here is probably an indication that I’m trying to make everybody measure up to my standards,”—that’s a good practical thing to do to stop yourself and analyze that.

But I’m also saying, “Maybe, you haven’t fallen in love with the grace of God. Maybe you’re just not that amazed by grace if you keep living according to your own striving.” I’m not trying to step on any toes. I’m simply saying, “I think the beauty of God’s grace is arresting. And if you are not in awe, or curious, or not in wonder over it,”—I think it was Thomas Watson who said, ‘Until sin be bitter, Christ will not be sweet,’—and so maybe I’m just saying that, if Christ doesn’t feel all that sweet to you, it might be that you haven’t really reckoned with why you need amazing grace in the first place.”

Ann:I’m resonating with that just because I think I was filling my head with all the lies and all the things that I wasn’t doing, or other people weren’t doing, to kind of meet the standard. And I started—I’ve said this hundreds of times here—I started reading the Bible through every single year. I’m not sure anything has transformed my mind as much as that; because the more you read, the more you see the grace of God, the goodness of God, the love of God, the love of Jesus, the sacrifice of Jesus. It’s overwhelming; it’s overwhelming.

And when you see the greatest leaders in the Bible, they were so messed up; that gives me hope! It gives me so much hope. And I think, maybe, you can talk about this a little bit, too—I needed to confess some of that, out loud, to Dave—”I feel like I’m always failing,”—to friends; because it’s amazing how many other friends were feeling the exact same way. They’re beating themselves up, in their heads, about: “I’m a failure, as a mom; I’m not measuring up.” But the first place we go is Jesus, and tell Him the truth.

Ruth:I think it’s probably a slight unpopular opinion, but there’s so much value truly in sharing vulnerably. But I also think that sometimes our culture, even in the church, sometimes we just get really, I don’t know, we kind of glamorize feeling sorry for ourselves and putting ourselves down when really some of that, it may not seem like it, but sometimes when you’re just like: “I’m the worst,” “I fail at everything,” “I’m not pretty enough, “I’m not good…”; you’re just sinfully complaining. And so don’t hear me say, “Don’t share, vulnerably, with somebody who is going to encourage you and help you see…”

Ann:Because what another woman will do is—we are compassionate—and it’s like, “No, you’re not! You’re a great mom! You’re amazing; you’re beautiful.”

Ruth:And we do need encouragement; so I’m not saying like, “Wow, this is just a spiritual problem I’ll never share with somebody.” Yes, do talk to a trusted friend; say: “I am struggling with feeling ugly,” “I’m struggling with feeling like I’m a failure at everything.” That’s not sinful to say that and confess that; but I think a habitual pattern of being down in the dumps, where you assess yourself, and measure yourself, and feel like you’re never good enough, that actually might point more to—I know it seems counterintuitive—but points more to pride and your own sense of perfectionism. It’s not humility that you say that; it’s actually because you’re proud, and you kind of don’t want to be weak.

And so I think sometimes, even that confession with the Lord, and saying: “I think I have a hard time with being weak,” “I have a hard time with not being perfect,” “I have a hard time with being in progress,” “Lord, help me surrender to Your perfection, because I’m not God; You are.” Seeing that—seeing my place, as the creation, and not the Creator—actually helps me in my everyday life.

I’ll just say it, just as a super practical—because I know we’ve been talking a lot about this, like the biblical context, even a little theology: you’re thinking about who God is—just on a really practical note—this is why, as an artist, and as an author; I’m a creative—I go outside every day. I spend some time every single day, being wowed by God.

Ann:Me, too.

Ruth:A sunrise and a sunset doesn’t teach you theology; it’s not going to tell you the character of God. It’s not going to tell you He’s immutable and omniscient. And it’s not like it’s going to teach you that; it’s not going to be the gospel presented. However, when you walk outside—it doesn’t matter where you live—we all have access to a sunrise, a sunset; the stars coming out at night. All of us get access to seeing the seasons change, at some level, knowing that first bud on a tree signals something. And it helps to realize that you have nothing to do with that.

So even if you’re the president of a major organization, and you’re a CEO of a big company, even if you’re really impressive and you hit the New York Times 20 times, or whatever—it doesn’t matter—you had nothing to do with that. That reminder, every day, that God is still God; and you’re not. Just on a very practical level, while you’re taking in the amazingness of God’s grace [through His Word], also, take in visually- and sensory-wise that God actually is the One who did all of this and made provision for all of it. And that not everything depends on you.

Dave:As you do that, it’s a reminder, whether it’s sunsets: “It’s creation.”

The other image that we continually look at every day is a mirror. And so I was thinking, “As women, how does life-transforming grace impact you in terms of body image, physical beauty?” I mean, guys struggle with that; but I think women really—I mean, it’s something our whole culture judges women, since they’re little girls—your whole life is about that mirror. As you get older, and think about that— and “I got to live in grace; I got to understand how God sees me,”—but every day—and again, we do this as men, too; but especially for women, especially for moms listening, and even daughters—“How do you apply that grace to this area of your life?”

Ruth:It’s super hard because, again, I think we keep thinking that: “If we trust God enough, if we love Him enough, that struggle should go away. I should be able to look in the mirror; and suddenly, I don’t see cellulite; I don’t see any of the features that I don’t like about myself.” But

Romans 12:1 says, “Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind.” And that tells us that it’s your mind’s patterns of thinking that will ultimately align you with the truth or be aligned with the world.

I don’t know any other way to be fueled by the grace of God—to do good works, to think good thoughts, to live a life that God has for me—I don’t know any other way to do it, but to take one step at a time, and say, “Today this thought is not aligned with the Word of God; I’m going to change this thought.” And then, in five minutes, when I have another thought that is kind of like—“Oh, that’s not quite/I think this is off,”—to realign, and say: “What is the truth about what God thinks of me?” “What is the truth about my purpose?” “What is the truth, found in God’s Word, about whether—‘Do I need to prove myself right now?’ or ‘Can I rest that God loves me, and I’m cared for, even if there’s opposition?’”—whatever it is. I don’t know how else to do that, but to do it one step at a time.

And what I ultimately believe, with my whole heart, is that when Paul says, in Ephesians 2:10, that: “We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus, for good works,”—and we mentioned this earlier that—”the good works were prepared beforehand that we should actually live in Him and walk in it.” That word for workmanship—and you probably know way more Greek than I do—poiéma isn’t the root word there. The root word for which we get the word, “poetry,” signifies: masterpiece, work of art, like designed and crafted, creative. I mean, it’s a word that I resonate with, as an artist; because there’s artistry to that craftsmanship.

So if we are His workmanship, designed on purpose for a purpose, then we can ultimately say, “No; it’s not like I can look in the mirror, and immediately say, ‘Because He said I’m His workmanship, I suddenly don’t wrestle with any of those things.’” But I do have the privilege of letting that “dwell in my heart richly”—Colossians 3:16—so that, when I look in the mirror, I think of the word, “poiéma,” and think of the word, “workmanship”; and I say, “It honors God when I remember that it’s not my works, not my beauty, not what I get right that makes me valuable and treasured; that I have purpose and I have good works to do with my one precious life, because He designed me on purpose.” Now, I just took the truth of Ephesians 2:10—reworded it—and preached it back to myself. That’s all I did.

I didn’t make anything up; I just took the Scripture that’s already there in the context of what is true. And that’s all I know to do when I look in the mirror, because I’m not going to magically not struggle with the things that I struggle in my sinful state; but I can be transformed by the renewal of my mind, one thought at a time.

Ann:I will say this is a harder area for me now than it ever has been. Thirties, forties, fifties—I’m like, “Yeah, I got this thing,”—and now, getting older, this is like, “Wait! I don’t have it. I do not have it.” And I would say to Dave, “Well, yeah, I know that Jesus sees me like that; but the world is hard on us, and there’s so much pressure.”

But my good friend, Michelle, would always say, “As women,”—and this is true of anybody; of men, too—”we need to glance at the mirror and gaze into God’s eyes; gaze into God’s Word, because that’s our truth.” That’s the mirror that we should [look]—James talks about God’s Word as a mirror—so that’s what I have to keep preaching to myself, because it just keeps getting harder and harder.

You’re laughing because you know it’s getting harder for me.

Dave:Oh, no; I’m smiling because I thought, “Ruth, what you said—both of you—‘If a mom’s teaching that to her daughter—teen-aged daughter—

Ann:—and little girls; it starts when they’re little.

Dave:—“’that’s grace.’” Yeah, little girls. I’m just thinking, “Man, it never ends. They’re living in it—in this culture—because you never get away from the body, the thoughts—you’ve got a phone; you’ve people texting you—and it never ends.”

Ruth:And the standards—if we’re talking about measuring sticks—it’s not even fair anymore when there’s a lot you can do to turn back time. So if you’re trying to measure and keep up with what the standards are, that standard is changing and reversing; it’s moving constantly. And so no wonder we feel like growing older—and actually having texture to our skin or having texture to our body—

Ann:That’s a good way to say it!

Dave:Texture; that’s the word.

Ruth:I know; I was trying to think of how to say this nicely.

Dave:“Texture.”

Ann: Texture for our wrinkles and for our cellulite.

Ruth:Having texture is real.

Ann: My mom lived to be 90 years old, and she never wore makeup. She would once in a while—she’d put on some lipstick—but she was never about the outside. But man, her inner beauty was shining every day. Her smile was magnificent—it was poiéma—it was a poem. And I think people are longing to see the inward beauty that we carry, and that’s what the Scripture says.

Ruth:And can we just promise that we’ll be those women that can just hold fast to [the truth], and be the example?

Dave: I think you will.

Ruth:I just pray and hope that we can be the older women who, as the younger generation of women feel the pressure, that we might just hold onto putting Christ on display through the inner beauty.

Ann:Yes; good question, Dave.

Dave:Ruth, this has been rich.

Ann: You are amazing.

Dave:Thank you so much.

Ruth:Thanks so much for having me.

Ann:We love you.

Dave:And let me just say to our listeners: “Go get her book, When Strivings Cease. You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com; buy her book there.

And we’ve got her children’s book, Home Is Right Where You Are.

Ann:It’s so pretty.

Dave:If you’re watching us, you can see how beautiful it is; and that it’s your art. I did not know, when I first picked it up, you did all that. It’s like amazing.

And so we’re offering that as our gift to you when you send a financial donation to FamilyLife, and you can do that at FamilyLifeToday.com. By the way, your gift will be doubled until the end of December; and if you send a gift, we will double it; and we’ll send you this [book, Home Is Right Where You Are]. FamilyLifeToday.com; 800-358-6329; it’s F as in Family,—

Ann:—L as in Life,—

Dave:—and the word, TODAY.

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