How to Parent Differently – Kathy Koch

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How to Parent Differently

Guest:Kathy Koch

From the series:How to Parent Differently (Day 1 of 3)

Air date:March 17, 2025

Kathy:Grateful is the number-one character quality. I think the most important quality to teach kids is gratitude. When we see a child communicating gratitude, we need to say, “I’m proud of your heart, that you are grateful. God is pleased that you’re grateful for what you have and not demanding to have more.”

Ann:Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Ann Wilson.

Dave:And I’m Dave Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

Dave:I can tell you’re excited.

Ann:I am excited.

Dave:Tell us why. I know you’re excited; I can feel it in the room.

Ann:Because we have Kathy Koch with us today, whom I’ve listened to; I’ve learned from.

Dave:Kathy, you’re like a superstar in her mind.

Kathy:That’s amazing.

Ann:You are; you really are.

Dave:Dr. Kathy.

Kathy:Wooh!

Ann:Dr. Kathy Koch.

Dave:You’ve got a PhD; you’re sharp. Here’s crazy about you: we’ve watched you many times. You’ve never watched us, never listened to us; but we’ve watched you. You write about parenting, and you’re not a parent.

Kathy:That’s true.

Dave:But you are so good at it; every parent’s like, “She knows.”

Ann:How long have you been writing on parenting?

Kathy:The writing has been for about 20 years. The ministry’s 33 years old; I’ve always had a passion.

Ann:You have.

Kathy:Yeah.

Ann:Can you go back—because I feel like our listeners—it would really benefit them just to hear your story, because it’s pretty fascinating.

Kathy:Well, it would be fun. I was a celebrated kid—my brother and I both—and I just—

Ann:What’s that mean?—you’re celebrated.

Kathy:Known in your own home; affirmed; corrected and not criticized; raised to not perform, but to fulfill purpose.

Ann:See, I want to write all these things down right now. This is what parents—

Dave:You just described what every parent should do.

Kathy:Thank you; that’s honoring of you to say.

Dave:Your parents were amazing?

Kathy:My parents were very good at what they did. If they were here—they are both with Jesus—came to faith late in life. I was raised in church, not by Christians. I came to faith in Christ at the age of 19 after a confusing season. I needed truth; and praise God, I went to the right person who shared it with me out of the Word of God. We should always go to the right people who will use the Word of God when we’re confused. That’s a subset of the story, I suppose.

But again, I was a celebrated kid and lived kitty corner from one set of grandparents; three blocks from the other grandparents. Went to school with one set of cousins; church with the other cousins. Come from a really good life. My grandfather was mayor of my city, growing up; so I saw a man change the world with the spoken word. He was the president of the U.S. Council of Mayors; I have a picture of him with the U.S. President. He’s the one, who said, “Chatty Kathy, use all those words in you only for good and never for evil.” I was to help and never to hurt.

That’s how I was raised, and praise God; because those of us, who are chatty Kathys—and that was my nickname—we can gossip, and tease, and name call, and impress with our vocabulary—and “I know more than you know,” very easily—let’s be honest about that. But I wasn’t raised to do that. I wasn’t raised—“Be quiet,” “Be quiet,” “Shut up,” “Go find something to do,”—I was listened to, and that’s part of the celebration. Now, when I was about ten, they enrolled me in children’s theater; and they said, “Go talk there a while”; and that’s part of the story. My brother survived the kitchen table conversations when I would answer the questions so that he didn’t have to.

I thought every kid was celebrated. I thought that every family was a jigsaw-puzzle, card-playing family who ate meals together. And then, I taught second graders; and I found out that wasn’t the case. I had second graders in my class.

Ann:So you became a teacher.

Kathy:I became a teacher, because I loved learning. I loved being a kid.

Ann:I thought you couldn’t spell.

Kathy:Spelling is a challenge for me, and I’m the one who had to teach the rules,

as second-grade phonics rules, which don’t work of course. Yeah, I’m an author of seven books—soon to be more—even though spelling is a challenge, because you don’t let your weaknesses win.

Dave:What is the phrase you said earlier? You got a children’s book coming, and you said written by too-tall Chatty—it was so good—I want our listeners to hear that.

Kathy:Yeah. Part of my testimony is: “I’m a too-tall chatty Kathy, with a low voice, who can’t spell all that well.” And look what the Lord has done, because I earn a living as an author and a speaker.

When you have a weakness, Dave, you don’t give into it—and you don’t let it lead; you don’t succumb to it, and put your head in the sand and pretend it isn’t there—you surround yourself with help. I have editors who do an excellent job. The people who work with me will proofread, at my request, even though I’m the founder and president of the company; because humility is right; and teachability is right; and I don’t want to hurt people. I travel with a Misspeller’s Dictionary—true statement—there’s something called a Misspeller’s Dictionary.

Ann:I didn’t even know there was such a thing.

Kathy:You know what, Ann? In my dictionary, you can find the word the way you think it should be spelled.

Ann:Really?

Kathy:Yeah; like science. Why is there a C after the S?—S-C-I-E-N—I had an eighth grader say to me once, “Which letter is silent?—the S or the C?” Seriously, it’s a great question. In my dictionary, the word, “science,” would be spelled S-I-E-N-C-E; and then, they’ll correct the spelling. It’s called a Misspeller’s Dictionary.

So when you have a weakness, you surround yourself with help: whether that be tools—no different from a calculator for a kid who can’t memorize math facts—and this is the role of the parent is to help a child be successful.

Dave:Now, you had parents do that?

Kathy:Absolutely.

Dave:Because when you were a little girl, did you feel those deficiencies?—

Kathy:I don’t remember feeling that—

Dave:—like the spelling and being tall?

Kathy:Now, being tall, definitely. I came home from school one day, and said, “I don’t want to be tall anymore.” And I was clumsy; I don’t know if you can relate to that, Dave; you got some height with you. Did you trip over things that weren’t even there?

Ann:You like hearting that, hon?!

Dave:I’ve got height.

Ann:”…you’ve got some height on you.”

Dave: I’ve lost an inch and a quarter in the last five years.

One of the reasons I ask you that is I grew up in broken home—dad was gone—but I was gifted, athletically. And when in elementary school, we moved from one state to another. They moved me back a grade, which now I call: “I got redshirted”; but I moved back a grade. And then, during recess, I had to go to speech therapy; because I was a little slow with my language.

Ann:—which is funny; I did, too, in the first grade.

Kathy:And now, look what the Lord has done with both of you.

Dave:Yeah, it’s crazy.

Ann:Same with you.

Dave:But when I was going through it, it was a double whammy. I thrive out there on the sports field; I’m inside at speech therapy. So I had to struggle—nobody was telling me I was great—but you didn’t have that struggle?

Kathy:I did with my height; I don’t remember with my spelling. Now, I enjoyed a thesaurus. This is a true story—kids will say, “You need a life, lady,”—I had a great life. I was fascinated by words, and I loved the thesaurus. And guess what? If you can’t spell words, the dictionary doesn’t help you; but a thesaurus will. So if I don’t know how to spell beautiful; I do—but it sounds like it’s B-U—it sounds like B-U—it’s not; it’s B-E-A-U. I do know that; but if I didn’t know that, I could look up “pretty” in a thesaurus and find “beautiful.” I learned, at a young age, that a thesaurus was going to be a helpful book. And now, guess what? I write books, using a thesaurus.

Dave:Wow.

Kathy:So we are who we are supposed to be. Childhood leads to adulthood; today causes tomorrow. This is what our children need to understand: “If you want to become somebody, then you work on the things that you need to work on.”

Praise God; you were both given opportunities to develop the speech that you needed. And yet, I grieve with you that they took you off the recess field, which is where you could thrive, and where you made relationships, and where you were successful. I get that that was hard for you.

Dave:But your mind is so sharp.

Kathy:Thank you.

Dave:You must have been a whiz, as a little girl, in class,—

Kathy:I love learning.

Dave:—being a tall girl in class.

Kathy:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love learning, and I’m logic smart—I love questions and answers and thinking things through—I was raised that way. My dad was an engineer. My mom never went to college, but you wouldn’t know that by listening to her; she’s a brilliant woman. My brother has an earned PhD, and an earned post-doctorate, and is a clinical chemist. He can read all my books; I can’t read the title of the articles he’s written. So we’re smart in different ways, if you will.

But you know what? We were raised to value education—and that matters—education changes you. Education can change your heart because that’s where you develop teachability, and other-centeredness, and purposeful living. We live on purpose; every believer needs to know that they live on purpose. We were called for such a time as this. We were created by a loving God who knew what He was doing when He chose to make us. We weren’t thrown together; we were knit together, and knitting is a precise skill. And here we are—why?—to leave the world a better place. Are we doing that through who we are and through what we do? I hope so.

Dave:Man, it’s just like boom! You just laid down heavy truth.

Ann:—heavy truth.

Dave:Give us a little bit of your spiritual journey. Where does that come from?

Kathy:Good question. Raised in church by loving people. Went to church when the doors were open. Loved serving in church; did all the right things. I was a check-it-off, good girl legalist; and I didn’t even know there was such a thing. But I would read the Bible; and pray; and go to confirmation; and worship; and go to camp; and be a camp counselor; and become a Sunday school teacher—did all the things—I thought it was religion, and I thought it was church. I enjoyed it.

I would say there was nothing wrong with it, except that we never heard the gospel. I was raised in a denomination where we found out that Jesus was born, and He died. There was never a mention of the Holy Spirit, which is why my first book is dedicated to the triune God. I was mad when I found out that there was a whole lot of God I had never been taught, because I think I would’ve come to faith earlier. I think the Holy Spirit is very attractive, and I don’t think we use Him well in evangelism; because He is the Gift you get, and He’s the Guide, the comfort of the Helper, the Teacher; yes, the Convict-or. I love to say to people, “If the Word doesn’t make sense yet, come to faith in Christ. Trust what you know to be true, and the Spirit will guide you to all understanding”; that’s what the Scripture says.

I thought it was all about religion. And then, I went to college; and I roomed with a Catholic my first year of school. Everybody at Purdue University went to St. Thomas Aquinas on the corner. I still remember it—and it was forever ago—we all went to midnight mass on Saturday night, because it was a cool thing to do. But I got really confused; because there were guitars, and candles, and different robes, and communion all the time; they knelt. It was all about Mary, and Jesus was on the cross. I had never seen Jesus on the cross before.

Ann:Interesting.

Kathy:And that was very different, even though I didn’t know that Jesus died for my sins and rose from the grave. I couldn’t have said that back then, but I knew it was different.

I went to my youth pastor—I knew him well—I babysat for his kids. I knew Rich well, and he answered my questions. I had questions—and so many people do today—and there’s nothing wrong with that. I wanted to know: “Why do good things happen to bad people?” and “…bad things happen to good people?” I wanted to know: “Is the God of Daniel, the God of Revelation?” I don’t know if you can relate to this; but I wanted to know: “Why are there four gospels if they all tell the same story?” and “Why do we call it a story?” and “Why do we call David, and Jonah, and Moses, and Esther characters?”—”Who’s your favorite character in the Bible?”—it’s a common question you ask Sunday school children. Those are people who lived in real time. Cinderella is a character, and Cinderella is a story.

Dave:—fiction.

Kathy:These are life lessons. The holy accurate Word of God is lessons for us—a life letter/love letter I like to call it—from our Creator Who knows us better than we’ll ever know ourselves.

He sat next to me, Dave; he didn’t sit across from me. He had a big oak desk. He sat next to me and opened the Word of God. And this is what happened—he didn’t reject me for all my questions—and way too many people are rejected. Either they have no one to go to—or they’re rejected—and they’re made to feel like, “You should already know that.”

Dave:—or “Just have faith.”

Kathy:“Oh! You don’t have enough faith.”

Dave:“Just believe.”

Kathy:“Oh, just believe; you know enough.”

Logic—smart mind, thinking with these questions—he figured out I was looking for wisdom, not love. Many, many people, who come to faith in Christ, do it through the avenue of love. I’m an introvert from a very close family—kitty-cornered from grandma and grandpa—Saturday breakfast with pancakes every Saturday morning, with grandma and grandpa; every Sunday lunch. I’m like, “No, I don’t need love; I’m good there.”

Now, I knew I wasn’t eventually right—so don’t anybody write to the station, and say, “She doesn’t understand,”—no, I knew once I understood the sacrifice of Christ, that I needed to love Him back; because His love for me was so profound. And yet, that wasn’t the start of the journey. I wanted wisdom; I wanted answers to my questions. I wanted to know: “Why would He do this for me? I’m so unworthy.” To God be the glory, Rich showed me Colossians 2:3—and that’s my victory verse—Colossians 2:3 says, “In Christ is hidden all wisdom and knowledge.” That’s what Rich knew I wanted.

Dave:Wow.

Kathy:I didn’t know, but he knew. He’s like, “Kathy, you’re seeking the same wisdom; you’re seeking the same solution others are seeking. You’re just doing it with a different journey.” That was the day I knelt; and I said, “Yes,” to Jesus.

Dave and Ann, I didn’t fully understand that I needed a Savior for sin—I needed answers for questions—and I entered into a faith relationship in that moment. And then, Rich helped me; and others helped me understand the whole of it. And then, “Yes, praise the Lord; saved. He’s not just Savior, but He’s Lord.” Because the longer you walk with Him, the more that you know you need Him on earth—heaven come down—and we need His wisdom now, that abundant life.

Ann:So you become a second-grade teacher after this journey of knowing Jesus. As a teacher, you’re realizing, after walking through this, “Oh, these kids aren’t celebrated.” And so what did that make you think and feel?

Kathy:Anger, disappointment. I would admit to judgment, like, “Why can’t your parents get it together?”—which is not really healthy to be a teacher of little kids and be feeling this. Empathy, compassion was certainly there. It was one of the motivations to earn the PhD and become a professor—to be able to teach teachers well—which is then, what I did.

So taught second graders; was a middle school, high school coach; became a professor; and a school board member of a Christian school. Thought I would do all of those things forever; was really shocked when it didn’t feel right. I wanted teachers to know how they could celebrate kids; and how we could—when I was a teacher, I wanted my children to want to come to school and not want to go home, not because home was bad—but because school was so good.

Ann:—so good.

Kathy:I wanted them to be safe there; I wanted them to have their name known there. I’m passionate about that. I wanted them to become who God created them to be.

When I came to faith in Christ, and the Word was just alive—and then, I just saw so much more—and I saw the beauty of how I was created, and I wanted other kids to find that. It’s a beautiful story, and I think everybody has a story; everybody has. You two are examples of that as well. Everyone listening to us: I want them all to know they were all created on purpose, with purpose, for a purpose—first, and foremost, to know the One true God; and then, to make Him known and to fulfill the Great Commission and the Great Commandment—and we do that through the giftings that we have. You got to know you’ve got giftings—not that you don’t also have weakness—but don’t let your weaknesses win. Know what you’re good at; and do that for God’s glory, not your own.

Dave:You had to be named Teacher of the Year multiple times.

Kathy:You know what they didn’t have? That’s so kind of you. They didn’t have those competitions back then. I don’t like the competitions today, because I think it’s so unrealistic to have one out of three hundred. And what does that competition—

Dave:I’m just saying kids loved you.

Kathy:Your comment is really kind.

Dave:I guarantee kids loved you. I had teachers like you, and I wanted to be at school—and I’m not like a student—but when they celebrated you, and saw your gifts—and took a complex subject: history, whatever; and made it exciting—you’re like, “That’s teaching!”

Ann:It’s a gift to give to kids.

Dave:You’ve got it! I can tell you’ve got it!

Kathy:Oh, that’s so fun; I love hearing that. Being a professor was such a joy.

One of the things that we believe at Celebrate Kids is that children become who you tell them they are.

Ann:As a parent, all of a sudden you’re thinking, “What am I telling them?” “What are they hearing from me?”

Kathy:Exactly; children become who you tell them they are if they respect you. One of the things that means to me, Dave, is we’ve got to stop telling our kids, “Oh, that was good.” “What’s good?”—“Good is: ‘I’m happy. I’ve judged you; I’m happy,”—but it doesn’t help them do it again.

Dave:So what do we say?

Kathy:Whether it’s my book about character, or my book about motivation—“Were you accurate?” “Were you generous?” “Were you kind?” “Were you patient?” “Were you other-centered? Were you looking out for others?”—

Ann:Oh, now you’re getting into character.

Kathy:—”Were you teachable?” “Were you…” We’ve got to do a better job.

And this is where I have the utmost respect for overwhelmed, busy, distracted parents and teachers. We got to get better at this—we got to slow down; put our phones down; look them in the eye, and ask the Spirit to show us: “What is it that your son just did that pleases you?” Because if you simply say, “Good,” you’re not helping your kid at all; but was he other-centered?—was he respectful? It’s so important.

Grateful—grateful is the number-one character quality—I think the most important quality to teach kids is gratitude. When we see a child communicating gratitude, we need to say, “I’m proud of your heart, that you are grateful. God is pleased that you’re grateful for what you have and not demanding to have more. I’m so pleased for you.”

Dave:Entitled.

Kathy: Entitled—it’s killing us—the entitled culture, which comes from our phones. We treat God like He’s Amazon Prime: we can have whatever we want when we want it—now.

Ann:Now, that’s a line; isn’t that true!

Kathy:It is true.

Dave:And we want it same-day delivery.

Kathy:Exactly, the way we ordered it: blue, medium, short sleeved. We treat God like that; no wonder we’re giving up on God. He’s not Amazon Prime. He’s the authority, and He gets to decide.

So there’s a whole lot of things I’m throwing into this pot, but I appreciate the questions you’re asking. This is what we’re passionate about at Celebrate Kids—that kids would be known; that they would want to be known by you—so tell them who you see them being. It’s very, very important.

Dave:Now, what about truth? If you see them making mistakes—going the wrong way—you want to speak life; but you also, Ephesians 4:15, want to speak the truth in love. And the truth is: “There’s something negative I see.” Do you package it, or do you say it straight out?

Kathy:A little bit of both, depending upon your relationship with the child. The definition of correction is: “To put it right.”

The definition of criticism is: “To point it out,”—very dangerous; I don’t even think there’s something called constructive criticism. Criticism is—“To point it out,”—”I don’t want any more of that attitude,” “You call that finished?” “What’s with the way you’re treating your sister?” “That’s your answer?” “Is that where we leave our dirty clothes?”—those are all criticisms.

Ann:Every parent—

Dave:Every parent is saying, “Oh, my goodness!”

Kathy:Keep listening! Keep listening! Don’t turn off the show.

Dave:Hopefully, their kids are not listening, looking at them like, “Mom, you said all those in the last 20 minutes.”

Ann:No, that’s a big difference. And we’re like, “Wait, wait; what was that?” So that is criticism.

Kathy:Those are criticisms, because all I’ve done is pointed it out. Kids, by the way, do this to their parents; and they do it to their siblings all the time. “I wanted a donut,”—criticism.

Now, a correction is: “To put it right.” A correction would sound like, “You’re old enough to know that you don’t put dirty clothes there.” You don’t have to say anything more—they’re not stupid; your children are not stupid—they’re taking advantage of your busyness, perhaps.

You could say, “Your attitude toward your sister is not appropriate. Which attitude would be much better?” You see if your child can say, “Oh, I should have had compassion. She isn’t feeling well, and she had a test today. I’m sorry, Mom.” Wouldn’t that be amazing if you’re raising that kid?

Ann:Well, your tone sounds kind of the same; but what you’re saying is different.

Kathy:Yeah, that’s a good point. Your tone could be the same. Again, a criticism is: “To simply point it out.” And so this is husband and wife, too; this is Marriage 101,—

Dave:Oh, yeah.

Kathy:—where you say something, and it’s passive/aggressive control. Most people, when they hear me speak on this, they don’t mean to be critical. When I researched this, and found I was disgusted with my own behavior: “I don’t want to be critical; that’s not of the Lord.” When we find kids, and we can’t say, “Boy, you’re being wonderful today,” we ask ourselves for specific words that will give them hope that they can overcome. And then, we model for them; and we actually teach them. We don’t just talk about it. Talking about it all day long might not change it, especially if sin is deeply rooted—the sin of pride, or the sin of being aggressive and not gentle—then you have to root that out with real good instruction.

Dave:Now, what about—I’m guessing you’re familiar with John Gottman.

Kathy:A little bit.

Dave:His work—he’s more in the marriage space—Jewish man, who sort of watches a couple have a fight, and can tell you in 15 minutes if they’re going to make it.

Kathy:Oh, wow.

Dave:And he’s 98 percent accurate. He has what he calls—he is looking for things as they communicate; he has the “Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse”—one of them is criticism. I want to get your thought on: he says the worst one is criticism; times 50 is contempt.

Kathy:Oh, yes.

Dave:And he says contempt is—I’m not just critical—I now am downgrading you because I’m better than you; spouses do this all the time. It’s not only, “Did you make a mistake?” “Yes, you’re a loser. What are you doing? I would never do that.”

How does that play out with a parent, with a child where you’re not only maybe being critical or corrective, but their attitude is sort of like, “I don’t expect anything better from you, because I’m so much better than you.” Parents do that all the time: it’s in the tone; it’s in the atmosphere of the home rather than just the words.

Kathy:It is. Let’s hope people are going to still listen to this. I think that that’s pride. I think that’s fear-based parenting, where the parent has just discovered their child doesn’t know something they thought they knew; and now: “What am I going to do? I can’t be found out.” We have a terrible problem in this country of comparison-itis, and moms, in particular, afraid to be found out that they’ve got a seven-year-old who makes spelling errors. All seven-year-olds make spelling errors; all four-year-olds spill their milk. These are typical childlike behaviors, not necessarily sin. So we have to make sure that we’re not judging our children based on our need for approval from our peer group.

And by the way, God did not give you children so that you would be friends with them. If you need your children to be friends with you, please get a sitter; and go get a cup of coffee, and make some friends; because it’s not appropriate that you’re using your children in those ways. That’s some of what I think is going on there. It’s judgment; it’s fear; it’s pride; and it’s potentially the overwhelmed feeling of: “I don’t know what to do. I caught my kid with porn,” “…I caught my kid lying again,” “I just found out that he’s awake at 2, gaming with a kid from Romania. I thought we dealt with this already.”

This is legit; our culture’s chaotic, and people are messy. Praise God for shows like yours; so honored to be here. Praise God for the practicality of Scripture, and good churches that are walking alongside people. Children need hope that they can learn, and they need to understand that not everything is easy. So that part of that contempt is: “I can’t believe you don’t know this already.” Children who have been raised on technology think everything should be easy; because on tech, everything is easy. There’s the autocorrect, and the undo, and the reboot; so they think, “I don’t need an eraser. I’m amazing; I’m going to get it right the first time.” They x out of games they might lose; they have very little patience for things that are hard. You couple that in a child with a parent, who’s judgmental, and you have a child who’s crushed.

Children need to understand that phonics rules don’t always work. And you can read a book that you’ve already read that has a red cover, and that’s hard. Now, to a parent, that’s very easy; because the parent is an adult, who’s already learned it. But when we look over the shoulder of our sons and daughters, we need to be really careful. Or what if you can kick the football through the goal, and it’s no problem for you; or you can kick the soccer ball with the left and the right foot, but you have a kid who can’t do it with either; and they know that soccer is everything to you—now, they’re fearful, and it becomes just a real mess—so we got to check our attitude at the door.

Dave:Wow.

Ann:Then, there’s the other extreme of parents, saying, “Oh, you can do anything”; and there’s never any discipline; there’s never any consequence. You can have the one that’s really hard; but then, you also have the very lenient, maybe the helicopter kind of parent.

As parents, we’re in a lot right now; and parents, as you said, they’re facing a lot, and it’s not easy; so it’ll be really good to get into this. And we haven’t even said what her book is.

Dave:Oh, yeah; we haven’t even mentioned it—we’ve talked about Parent Differently: Raise Kids with Biblical Character That Changes Culture—and by the way, you can get it. Just send a donation to FamilyLife Today, and we will send you this book: FamilyLifeToday.com. Or you can give us a call at 800-358-6329.

And let me just say this: if you need parenting help—and let me tell you: we needed parenting help; now, we need grandparenting help—every parent needs parenting help. We would love to help you. We have a site just for you: FamilyLife.com/ParentingHelp. We put some of our best parenting resources there for you to help you. Please go there; get the help we offer. It’s FamilyLife.com/ParentingHelp.

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