I Think My Daughter Has an Eating Disorder: Rachel & Campbell Faulkner-Brown

Sissy: In this day and time, I have never seen parents as discouraged; feeling as defeated, feeling as anxious, feeling as much like failures as I’m seeing today, and I would not want parents who are listening to think, “Oh, no. I’m already behind the eight ball. I didn’t do all these things, and I’m missing it.” I would say two things: one is, I don’t believe it’s ever too late, and two, that we serve a redemptive God.

Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.

Dave: This is FamilyLife Today!

Dave: I’m excited today because we have one of the world’s best therapists, counselors in the studio.

Ann: It’s true!

Rachel: Amen!

Campbell: I agree.

Dave: Here’s why I’m excited. She’s not here to counsel me. [Laughter] Finally! Finally, in all of my brokenness. They brought counselors in here. They’d surprise me; put me on the couch and say, “We have to fix Dave.” [Laughter]

Ann: Our best episodes. We all need [to be] fixed.

Dave: But I think today is going to be a beautiful day.

Ann: Me, too. Sissy Goff, welcome back to FamilyLife Today.

Sissy: Oh, I’m so honored to be back with y’all, and that I get to sit here with these two.

Rachel: I know.

Ann: Yes. We have Rachel Faulkner Brown and her daughter, Campbell, with us. We’ve had a few great days with you two sharing your story of your mother-daughter relationship. But Campbell, you’ve been really brave talking about your journey through anorexia.

Sissy: Yes, you have.

Campbell: Yes, thank you.

Ann: Honestly, you’re 16 years old, and you want people to get help, so thank you for bringing this into the light, because there are so many people that are struggling. And Rachel, we’ve had you on before, and I hope that all of our listeners will go back and listen to the last two days, because your journey is something [that] as parents, we are so fearful for our kids to struggle or even be hospitalized. It can be our greatness fear.

Rachel: Oh, totally.

Campbell: It’s really scary.

Dave: Yes. I have to say, when I was listening to you, Campbell, the last couple of days, I’m looking at you sitting in a studio in Orlando [Laughter], beautiful, vibrant! And the story we heard the last two days is, you were in a hospital, almost lost your life.

Campbell: Yes.

Dave: Part of me thinks every parent needs to hear the story, because we give up. We think our kids are beyond hope. And your story, for everyone of, us says God can resurrect and do great things.

Ann: Sissy, tell us about eating disorders. Is this something we as parents are worrying about?

Sissy: Yes, certainly; and you know, it’s fascinating, because doing this work for 30 years, I’ve seen a lot of trends, and a lot of things, a lot of shifts that happen. I think, probably 15 to 20 years ago, I was seeing an unbelievable amount of eating disorders among kids. I saw it get better for a period of time. I have never read this statistically; this is anecdotally with the kids that I’m seeing in my practice. I saw a lot less kids for a while, and something happened in the pandemic.

Rachel: Yes.

Sissy: You think about it: we were at home around food; none of us were our healthiest selves in any way. And if we were going to really oversimplify, from my perspective, where eating disorders can be hard, I would say it’s about two primary things: one is a word you all used a lot, “shame.”

Campbell: Yes.

Sissy: Shame and self-hatred; and the other is about control.

Campbell: Yes!

Sissy: You start off thinking you’re going to control the food, and the food ends up controlling you.

Dave: What’s the shame part?

Sissy: I think it’s this sense of, “I’m not enough, I’m not okay. I don’t know who I am. I don’t like myself.” I heard somebody once say, which I thought was fascinating, that with folks who lean towards being more anorexic, it’s this sense of, “I don’t like who I am so I wish I could disappear, so I’m going to get smaller and smaller.” For people who struggle with bulimia, it’s more, “I hate myself and I wish I could get rid of who I am,” so almost the action mimics the shame inside.

Campbell: Yes! With anorexia, it’s like you’re not allowed to take up space.

Sissy: Yes, that’s a beautiful way to say that, Campbell. Yes, absolutely. If we go back to the pandemic, we were all really out of control in some big ways, so thinking about what you were talking about, about the switches that get flipped. I love that idea.

Ann: Me, too.

Sissy: And I think also, we were fighting. Marriages were struggling, and kids were witnessing that; and I think parents and kids were fighting more. I think, too, kids were home and scrolling more.

All: Yes.

Sissy: So, there are so many factors during that time that ramped up the statistics.

Dave: Now, what’s a parent to do? Talking to Rachel, yesterday or maybe two days ago, when she said, “I saw it, but I sort of thought it was thyroid or said it was thyroid.”  I thought, “I’ve done that a thousand times.”

Rachel: Oh, yes.

Dave: Like, “I can see it, but I don’t want to even step in it. I’m afraid to.”

Campbell: I don’t want to give it a name.

Ann: Yes; Dave and I would have these conversations. I’d say, “I’m really”—

Dave: —you don’t have to tell the world.

Ann: —“concerned about (naming one of our sons) because of this and this,” and you would always say, “He’s fine! He’s great.” [Laughter]

Campbell: Famous last words.

Dave: I was always wrong; always.

Ann: No, you weren’t.

Sissy: There’s a statistic that in a two-parent household, there’s usually an anxious parent and a non-anxious parent.

Rachel: Yes.

Sissy: I want every family, even before your kids can read, I want you to be passing feelings charts around the dinner table.

Rachel: Amen.

Campbell: I love that!

Sissy: And I want everybody to be naming three feelings. The more we can help kids early on give them adequate words, help them understand their feelings, help them accept what they’re feeling, and—this is maybe a separate topic—but I’m on a really big soapbox right now! I do think that, culturally, we are overdoing feelings to some degree.

I believe feeling your feelings and doing your work is different; that doing your work involves feeling your feelings, but it’s not all of it. So, helping kids name their feelings, understand their feelings, and that we sit with a lot of empathy with those feelings; then we help them work their way toward positive coping strategies.

Ann: Be empathetic?

Sissy: Be empathetic. Sit with the feelings past the point of feeling comfortable, because I think, based on our personality, some of us feel more uncomfortable with what, probably, the four of us grew up considering negative emotions. No emotions are negative; emotions are just data.

Ann: Yes.

Sissy: But it can be hard to sit with someone who is a really deep feeler and maybe even gets a little stuck in it.

Campbell: Yes.

Sissy: I remember [when] a client I was counseling said to me, “I don’t want to grow. I just want to be understood.” My first thought was, “I am the wrong girl for you, [Laughter] because I want to help you grow,” but I think we need to labor longer in understanding.

Campbell: With eating disorders, your brain is so depleted because you’re not eating enough fat, especially with anorexia. I’m just going to speak to anorexia, because I don’t really have the margin to speak for anything else, but when you have anorexia, fat is the enemy, okay? And when you don’t have fat, your brain cannot function on a regular level.

So, feelings go out the window, and it’s only “stop, drop, and roll,” like fire safety, just traumatic control is all your brain can do.

Rachel: Yes.

Campbell: So, you give it a task, and the brain completes that one task. And your one task: what is it? “Don’t eat.” So, that’s the only thing you can think about, day and night.

Rachel: There’s no rational—you see this?

Sissy: Oh, no rational thinking.

Campbell: There’s no rational!

Sissy: Right, absolutely.

Rachel: There’s no rational thinking.

Campbell: Everything is black and white. It is this or that. Sleep is no longer sleep. Sleep is just closing your eyes, and you wake up just as tired as you went to bed.

Rachel: And you don’t want to die.

Campbell: You kind of do at one point.

Rachel: Yes, at some point, but she just wanted to be thin.

Campbell: Eating disorders are actually a form of self-harm.

Rachel: Yes, for sure.

Dave: So, Sissy, if you’re trying to talk to your daughter or son about feelings, and they’re resistant, they’re not going to go there, what do you do?

Sissy: Right. Well, I think we want to start way, way, way earlier—

Rachel: —way back; yes.

Sissy: —because at that point, it is a moot point.

Dave: Yes.

Sissy: We’re not going to get there; they’re not going to talk about it. I would just make it a part of your family practice, where we’re regularly doing this. And then I think, with older kids who aren’t where you were, certainly, I think we have to be sneaky. If you have a 14-, 15-, or 16-year-old and you say, “Let’s pass the feelings chart around the dinner table,” they’re going to roll their eyes. [Laughter]

Campbell: Are you okay?

Sissy: Right, yes. But I think instead, we think about: when can we sit up a little bit later? They come in from being out with their friends, and kids are more vulnerable, all the things they’ll share.

Dave: Right, right.

Rachel: Oh, yes.

Sissy: You know, when can we lean in that they might be a little more willing to talk? And that we just stop doing as much of the talking, and we say things like, “Tell me more about that. I’d love to hear more.” At the first signs, which you are not giving yourself enough credit—you were on top of it.

Rachel: I will say this, Sissy, to that point: I saw this thing in The New York Times, and I think this would be such a great thing to tell parents. At dinner, talk to your family, and you could do this even at a dinner party. “What is the rose of the day? What is the thorn of the day? And what is the bud?”

The bud: “What are you looking forward to? What’s the problem, what are you struggling with in your life? What’s the thorn?” And then, “What’s the rose? What is something that happened to you that you celebrate today?” I thought, “It’s those conversations—

Sissy: —yes, yes.

Rachel: —compounded interest in those type conversations that get your kids talking. I feel like those little simple questions are where the gold is.

Sissy: Yes, absolutely.

Rachel: You know that. You have millions of those in your books. But I saw that and thought, “I have never heard that, and that is really good.”

Sissy: I love that. That’s awesome. It is really good. I think, as we’re thinking about food, again you have done a beautiful job, you two, this week.

Campbell: Thank you.

Ann: Haven’t they?

Sissy: If you haven’t heard, go back and listen to all these episodes, because there’s so much about what you can do along the way. So, I want to kind of keep moving back and say preventatively—

Campbell: —go back. Yes, I love this.

Sissy: So, I want you as a family to not talk about food. Research I have read certainly says, “Just don’t talk about it. Don’t talk about food, don’t talk about choices, don’t talk about weight to your children.” What I say to parents often is, “Make it a non-issue.” I had a pediatrician who came up to me after a seminar one time, and she said, “I try to keep really healthy food in my house. We exercise as a family, but it’s more because we want to go for a walk or a bike ride, than we want to exercise.”

She said, “And I regularly drive through McDonalds and get my kids fries, because I want them to have a sense of balance, and I don’t want it to feel like this is a boundary we’re putting in place that creates more rigidity.” But I would also say, if you are listening and you’re worried about your child’s weight, which is easy for parents to do, and I think we cannot be worried about it from just the way they look. We can be worried about it from a health issue.

Dave: Right.

Sissy: What I say to parents all the time is, “I want you to pick up the phone and call the pediatrician. Express your concern to that doctor. Let the doctor handle it on your next visit.”

Rachel: Yes, that’s good, Sissy.

Sissy: Because if we’re saying it’s about control, and you as a parent all of a sudden start saying, “Oh, haven’t you already had chips today? Didn’t you already have—?” then you’re fighting your child for control.

Rachel: Oh, yes.

Sissy: It’s like that game where you stack hands, and they’re going to fight you harder. So, let the pediatrician handle it. If the pediatrician sees your child and says, “They’re okay,” then they’re okay, and let it go; and that becomes more your issue.

Ann: I am going through all my parenting thing, because healthy is important to me, but you don’t want them to just eat junk, so you are trying—

Sissy: So, you keep healthy food in your house.

Ann: Okay.

Rachel: But you’re the gatekeeper.

Ann: But you’re not talking about being healthy and how you shouldn’t eat that. You’re just keeping the good things in the house.

Sissy: Yes, and I’m going to push on women—

Rachel: —do!

Ann: —yes.

Sissy: —because I think we have to be really aware of what we’re saying in front of kids. I remember a girl whose mom was thinner than she was that I counseled, and she said, “My mom talks about her body so much, and how much she doesn’t like it. If she thinks that about herself, I can’t imagine what she thinks when she looks at me.”

Ann: Ohhhh.

Sissy: And I’m going to go a step farther and really call some of us out, but I think in this age of social media, I feel concerned about even influencer culture—

Rachel: —yes, agreed.

Sissy: —because I think just who I am and have always felt like this: I think adolescents—

Ann: Campbell is basically clapping.

Rachel: One hundred percent!

Campbell: I feel this on another level.

Sissy: I’m so glad, Campbell! High fives!

Campbell: You’re preaching to a choir right now.

Ann: Okay, keep going, Sissy.

Sissy: I think there’s that sense of, “I’m 16, and I need to be cooler than my mom, and here my mom is all over social media, looking really cool, maybe trying to look cool. So, what does that mean that I believe about myself? So, do I quit caring about it and go the opposite, or do I feel like I end up competitive with her?” I just think it has to be so confusing, and I’m very curious what we’re going to see, in ten years, that life felt like growing up in this influencer culture. I just think it’s really tough.

Dave: Sissy, what you’re saying—and you’re the expert on this, but—I think guys are doing this more and more, so I would say to the dads, “Be careful.”

Sissy: Yes, I agree.

Ann: Dave, you’re more conscious than you’ve ever been in your life.

Dave: Oh, ever! And part of it’s the influencer and the culture, but I couldn’t care less 20 years ago, and now I’m like, “Look at my body.”

Ann: Yes.

Dave: But I’m seeing superhero movies, and these guys are sculpted, and you think, “Who could look like that?” They actually do look like that, and we’re putting that on our boys.

Sissy: Yes.

Dave: So, I think the caution is there for us as dads to be very careful.

Sissy: Absolutely.

Rachel: Well, you have rowing culture and wrestling culture. You have all these cultures that—

Campbell: —body building.

Rachel: —body building, that are obsessed with weigh-ins.

Dave: Yes.

Rachel: Davis has friends that are weighing in, and wearing zoot suits—

Campbell: Cutting and bulking.

Rachel: —cutting, and “I can’t have that today.” If you had any tendency or trauma on board, I would be terrified. I mean, just listen to them. I know a lot of people do it, and wrestling has been a thing for years, but wowza! It’s intense for boys.

Sissy: It’s scary.

Campbell: And cross country. Also, I feel like we don’t address boys’ eating disorders enough.

Sissy: I agree.

Campbell: It’s always—if a girl is skinny, it’s like, “Something’s not right here,” but if a guy is skinny, “He just has a fast metabolism.” [Laughter]

Sissy: So true!

Campbell: “He’s not struggling. Guys are just naturally skinnier.”

Sissy: That’s good, Campbell.

Campbell: W,hen sometimes guys aren’t naturally skinnier.

Sissy: Yes.

Campbell: I see so many men struggling with eating disorders. One of my best friends struggles with an eating disorder, and he didn’t tell anybody except for me, because I struggled with that.

But it’s like with wrestling or cross county, “I have to be lighter, skinnier.” It’s the control; it’s the anxiety.

Sissy: All of it together.

Campbell: it’s all of these things, and it’s really hard. I posted this thing on my Instagram the other day: “But is that really your dream body if it’s a nightmare to get there?”

Sissy: That’s a great statement, Campbell!

Ann: Oh, that’s deep, Campbell.

Rachel: Mic drop!

Campbell: Thank you.

Sissy: Can we back up and talk about counseling again?

Ann: Yes.

Sissy: You’re like, “I love all the backing up.”

Campbell: Sorry!

Sissy: No. You’re saying such great, important things. I think all these things, early on, if you have the intuition something’s off, even if you’re married to a non-anxious spouse, and they say, “It’s fine.” Sorry. [Laughter]

Dave: It never was fine, by the way.

Sissy: I think parents’ intuition is our superpower.

Rachel: I agree.

Sissy: So, if you at all feel like, “Huh, that seems off. She’s wearing too many layers, or he’s talking a lot about the check in,” go to counseling. Go ahead and find a counselor, because I just think we can’t do that early enough. We can’t be proactive enough. And to me, a good counselor would see your child three times and say, “Hey, they’re fine. You don’t need to come back.”

Ann: Sometimes, as a parent, we just don’t want the battle.

Sissy: I know.

Ann: It’s like, “Okay, I’m going to make an appointment, and they’re going to have a fit.”

Sissy: Yes.

Ann: So, how do we get them there?

Rachel: That’s great.

Sissy: Well, can I tell you my favorite statement someone ever said to me about why they told their kids they were going to counseling? They told their daughter, and she didn’t want to do it, and this mom said, “Honey, my job as your parent is to build your team. So, we have people that are on your medical team that are your doctors. We have people on your academic team that are your teachers. Of course, I would have someone on your emotional team that are going to be your counselors.”

Rachel: That’s great.

Sissy: “So, it’s just going to be the deal, and we may go three times, and then not again for a while, but we’re going to have somebody that when things come up you can say, ‘I want to go see [blank].’” I just thought, “What a beautiful, healthy approach.”

Ann: I wish I’d had that.

Sissy: I know!

Rachel: Me, too.

Campbell: Me, too. [Laughter]

Rachel: Good.

Sissy: And then I think, “Get them to the building.” And every counselor who has been doing it any length of time has walked out to the car and convinced a very oppositional child into the building. We have all done it. I’ve had van doors slammed on my side. It’s just part of our job. That’s why we do what we do with kids, because hopefully we’re good at drawing them in. So, if you can get them there—I definitely have had parents bribe their kids.

Rachel: I think too, Sissy, recognizing that if you do have trauma, if divorce has been your story, if death has been your story, if dad is an alcoholic; if you have trauma in your family—

Ann: —abuse of any kind.

Rachel: Yes, abuse of any kind—if you know the child has been abused, pre-emptively, that child probably, whether they’re struggling or not, then they can go three times and at least you have that person on board. When they do get in a crisis, they have a relationship. I think that’s a big deal, too, being proactive.

Ann: Right. Me, too.

Sissy: Yes. I love that, Rachel.

Rachel: Because if you know there are parts to your story that haven’t been easy, that child is much more likely to struggle.

Sissy: Yes, absolutely.

Ann: Anything else, Sissy, that we need to know as parents?

Sissy: Right now, in this day and time, I have never seen parents as discouraged, feeling as defeated, feeling as anxious, feeling as much like failures as I’m seeing today. Even thinking about these conversations that are just crucial in the lives of kids, I would not want parents who are listening to think, “Oh, no. I’m already behind the eight ball. I didn’t do all these things, and I’m missing it.”

Campbell: Oh, yes.

Sissy: I would say two things: one is, I don’t believe it’s ever too late, and two, that we serve a redemptive God.

The fact that Campbell is sitting here and expressing herself as beautifully as she is, and that this is your story. I was sitting in a room as you were recording your other episodes, just blown away by what you were saying. And it reminded me of the verse that I love to use the most with kids who are struggling and feeling their own sense of self-hatred, shame, all of those things.

Campbell: Yes.

Sissy: It’s 1 John 3:18-20. It says—this is in the Message; it says: “My dear children, let’s not just talk about love. Let’s practice real love. This is the only way we’ll know we’re living truly, living in God’s reality. It’s also the way to shut down debilitating self-criticism, even when there’s something to it, for God is greater than our worried hearts and knows more about us than we do ourselves.”

Ann: That’s so good.

Sissy: Isn’t that beautiful?

Campbell: My new bio verse! [Laughter]

Rachel: Yes!

Sissy: It’s the way to answer, when we have that voice of self-hatred; that when we give, when we experience having purpose, which is what you’re doing right now.

Rachel: Yes.

Sissy: So, I hope that carries you for a long way.

Rachel: So good.

Campbell: That is really, really good.

Sissy: Well, just to feel like you’re making a difference; and I think—as we’re talking about emotions, as we’re talking about coping strategies, I think—one of the best things we can do and that we can help lead kids towards is making a difference somewhere else, and having a sense of purpose, and people will love that.

Campbell: Yes, yes.

Rachel: I think, too, Sissy, “Without vision the people perish,” [Proverbs 29:18] and so many parents don’t have a vision for their child [as] healed. That was one thing that Karen, who Dave and Ann know—Karen was with me when we came down here and recorded; and she said, “Rachel, you cannot use your eyes when you’re in the hospital,” because I couldn’t use my eyes. What I saw was death, what I saw was destruction, what I saw was pain.

She said, “You have to get a vision for what Campbell can be,” so I held this vision of her in this outfit that I loved. It was this baby blue outfit, and her hands were up, and she was dancing like she was at a homecoming dance, and she was just totally free from her body. I’ve held that vision for a year.

Sissy: Rachel, that’s beautiful!

Rachel: But I do think I held on to what the Lord was showing me was true. That was what was true of Campbell; that was what the possibility was; but I held it. I held it so tight, because I could not use my eyes.

I think, for so many parents, we just don’t have a vision of our kids healed because we haven’t been given permission. It’s like we’re so in it, we can’t even get a sense of that. So, I would just say to any parent listening, get a vision for what it can be, what your child looks like, what they can be doing, healed, whole, and delivered.

Dave: That’s God’s vision.

Rachel: It is God’s vision.

Dave: That’s what He sees.

Rachel: It is what He saw. And she was in that same outfit this summer, healed and with me on a trip. I thought, “This is it. This is my vision, in that exact same outfit.”

Ann: I think that’s a really good reminder that there’s a team—Jesus; it’s the Trinity, it’s the Father, the Son—who are cheering for us.

All: Yes!

Ann: Because that vision is who He created you to be, Campbell, who He’s created all of us to be. So, even as parents to cry out to that team, like “God, we can’t do it. I can’t do it. We need You desperately,” and He hears.

Rachel: Yes.

Ann: He’s the best team ever! So, cry out to Him. He loves you; He loves your kids.

Campbell, I just want to say one last time, we are incredibly proud of you!

Campbell: Thank you.

Sissy: Me, too.

Ann: Thank you for all you’re saying, all you’re doing. You’re impacting so many, and you haven’t been out of it very long. Sometimes, it’s easy to wait 30 years, as you said.

Campbell: Yes.

Ann: But you are like, “I want to help people now.” Thank you for your courage.

Campbell: Thank you for letting me talk.

Ann: And Sissy, Rachel, thanks, you guys.

Rachel: I love y’all.

Sissy: I’m honored to be with y’all. Proud of you, Campbell.

Campbell: Thank you.

Shelby: Admitting that we can’t do it isn’t a bad place to be, as a young person or parents. Some people might ask, “Why? Why is that not a bad thing?” Well, because it means, in those moments, that we’re going to God for strength, the strength that we lack. Moving toward Him is what it means to be in relationship with Him, and our weakness is a doorway to God’s strength showing up in our lives. That’s what I’ve witnessed here today.

I’m Shelby Abbott, and you’ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Rachel Faulkner Brown, Campbell Brown, and Sissy Goff on FamilyLife Today.

Sissy has written a book called The Worry-Free Parent: Living in Confidence So Your Kids Can, Too. This book is going to be our gift to you when you give today at FamilyLifeToday.com. You can get your copy now with any donation that you give by going online to FamilyLifeToday.com. Just click on the “Donate Now” button at the top of the page. Or you can give us a call with your donation at 800-358-6329. Again, that number is 800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word “TODAY.” Or feel free to drop us something in the mail if you’d like, too. Our mailing address is FamilyLife, 100 Lake Hart Drive, Orlando, FL 32832.

So, what is one of the most important things you can do for your family? I think the answer would be [to] understand God more deeply and know Him more intimately. In a word, that’s called theology. It’s the most important thing in the world for you and your family. How is that significant? Well, more than you know. Tomorrow Jen Wilkin and J.T. English are going to talk about the significance of theology. We hope you’ll join us.

On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I’m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

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