Intentional Parenting in a Culture Gone Sideways – Kathy Koch

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Intentional Parenting in a Culture Gone Sideways

Guest:Kathy Koch

From the series:How to Parent Differently (Day 3 of 3)

Air date:March 19, 2025

Kathy:I believe caught and taught, both, are critically important. There are people who say more is caught than taught, meaning that the model is more important than the spoken word. I’m going to go bold here—alright, you ready?—I think a reason more is caught than taught is because we don’t teach.

Ann:Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Ann Wilson.

Dave:And I’m Dave Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today!

Dave:Well, you know Ann, I was reading this book; and I found something nobody’s ever seen before.

Ann:Oh, okay.

Dave:It’s in the foreword of this book. The reason I’m being a little—what’s the word I’m looking for?

Ann:Facetious?

Dave:Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking. Kathy, our author, in her book, Parent Differently.

Ann:Dr. Kathy Koch.

Dave:Yeah; Dr., you just read this to us.

Kathy:Yes.

Dave:I’m acting like I discovered this, but I had never seen this. But the Benhams—whom we know; we’ve had on here—as they wrote the forward, said—notice this: “When David kills Goliath, and King Saul comes to him, he asks David, ‘Whose son are you, young man?’” Again, we’re talking about parenting kids with character, biblical character.

Kathy, you just read that. I was like, “Look at this forward”; I bet I’ve preached that passage, at least, 20 to 30 times in 30 years. It’s a powerful story; there’s so many different learnings. But I’ve never seen that—that they didn’t even want to know about him—they want to know: “Whose son are you? You were parented in a way that enabled this moment to happen.” As you read that to us, talk to us about that.

Ann:Well, wait. Read the one line, which is like a killer.

Dave:The Benhams wrote: “Saul saw something in David he hadn’t seen in anyone in Israel, not even in himself. He saw courage. He saw strength. He saw a young man who stood unflinching in the face of certain death and boldly proclaimed God as King. Saul could have asked him a thousand different questions in that moment of awe, but he asked him one simple question: “Who’s your dad?”

Kathy:The reason I read that to you is that we were talking, in the second episode, which we all hope people will go back and listen to; and the first one, of course.

Dave:Hey, you should do radio; you’re good at this.

Ann:She does have a podcast.

Dave:I know.

Kathy:Thank you. We were talking about being intentional. You had shared your story, as parents, of the goals that you had for your kids. David and Jason, who I’ve known for years, are very intentional with their nine children. They have nine between them, with their wives; and so I think they read Scripture for knowing more about God.

We should all read Scripture to get to know God better and also to get to know ourselves; and “What are the lessons that He wants us to know for ourselves?” It doesn’t surprise me that that stood out to David and Jason; because they are very much in the parenting throes of ministry, and they want to build up dads. Much of their ministry, to entrepreneur men, is significant to them, but powerful. Dads and moms show up: we can tell by our children the way that they’ve been raised. We don’t say that to be a threat to, but it’s true.

Dave:Dennis Rainey used to say, often, on this program—founder and president of Family Life; we’re sitting in his seat—he used to say, “If you want to know what I believe, you’ll know by my grandkids.”

Kathy:Oh, man.

Dave:It’s going to be lived out through the generations. And he talked about raising kids with biblical character.

I did a sermon, years ago—sort of the opposite of what the Benhams pointed out—so often, as you look to the kings in the Old Testament, it would say: “And he turned out just like his father.” The whole sermon was “…like his father,” “…like his father.” And it’s all bad—his dad was bad; kid turned out bad—and again, that isn’t always a guarantee.

Ann:—at least, the kings of Israel.

Kathy:And what a neat reminder to our listeners that it doesn’t have to be that way.

Dave:Right.

Kathy:A small change—I was just saying before we started recording—that it doesn’t have to be all big major changes. It can be small things that we choose to do differently long enough so that it becomes a part of our regular vocabulary/regular routine. We begin to look for the positives so that we see the change, which encourages us: “We can make differences here. We don’t have to continue down the same path.”

Ann:Well, this book about character, as a parent, you’re going to go through and mark this thing up. You’re going to apply things that I feel like we need to hear and need to be reminded of, because the culture’s not telling us this stuff.

Dave:By the way, I’m going to say it right now: “You want this book?” You’re like, “What’s in that book?” If you haven’t listened to the last two days, listen to the last two days; but send a donation to FamilyLifeToday.com. We need your donations; we’ll send you this book.

Ann:Dave and I were talking about: “What are the questions we’re hearing from parents today?” Because you’ve been doing ministry in this field of parenting for how many years?

Kathy:Thirty-three.

Ann:I mean, you’re a PhD; you’re a teacher; you are a professor. Now, you’ve been writing so many books on this. You’ve been on so many different podcasts, radio shows. As parents, man, they are struggling and looking for answers and hope, but biblical answers and hope.

Kathy:Yes, that’s encouraging.

Ann:I think that makes a big difference. One of the things we’ve been hearing a lot from parents is they’re getting this pressure for sleepovers—

Kathy:Oh, yes.

Ann:—spending the night at a friend’s house or—

Dave:Probably seven-/eight-year-old, middle school age, somewhere in there.

Ann:Any age. And so I have all these moms saying, “What do I say? What do we say to our kids?” Especially if they’re teenagers, they’re so angry. So we’re going to shoot some questions.

Dave:The kids are angry that Mom and Dad are saying, “No.”

Kathy:—that they can’t go?

Dave & Ann:Yeah.

Kathy:So you’re going to ask me some easy questions, like, “What would I say?”

Dave:Yeah; should Christian parents [allow] sleepovers?

Ann:There’s a PhD behind your name for something.

Kathy:It just stands for “Praising them daily”; seriously.

Ann:I like that.

Kathy:No, really relevant. I love that you are aware of what the issues are out there. We have to stay current. I don’t believe it’s a good idea for children of any age to do sleepovers. I’m not a fan of even a church doing sleepovers. Now, something like a weekend, where all the 14-year-old girls are going to be in a particular home, I think that’s a little bit different. That’s a very structured setting, and there’s been a vetting of the home that’s hosting. They don’t sleep much anyway from what I’ve heard. So those kinds of situations may be okay. However, way too much goes wrong. There’s way too much embarrassment and shame, and there can be some really horrific things that happen. It’s not necessary—children can have really healthy and fun friendships and a healthy and fun childhood—without the sleepover.

Many of the children that I work with—so we don’t counsel—but we talk to kids on a regular basis, because we do chapel and different programs for youth. Many of them don’t want to go; and they want Mom and Dad to be strong enough to say, “No”; so now, they can throw Mom and Dad under the bus—and they can say to the host/they can say—”Hey, Renee, I can’t come. Mom won’t let me; I really wish I could.”

Be the parent who knows what’s best for your children—if they’re sensitive or easily hurt, or if you know that your kid can’t handle no sleep—they don’t get to go to the sleepover: “It’s not a wise thing for you.” Now, you could drop them off for game night; and at 10:00 pm, you pick them up. You could drop them back off at 8:00 am for pancakes if you wanted to. You could ask your child, “Would that be something you would want to do?” Some kids won’t even want to do that.

Another thing I would say is you could host two or three kids in your home if you believe that a sleepover would be an environment that would help your child bond with some kids—maybe, there is some loneliness; maybe, there’s some fear—you could host, because you know your home will be safe. But again, you don’t know what three little girls are going to do in a bedroom in the middle of the night; so you got to be really careful there; and we don’t say that lightly. The answer is “No.” The answer is just “No.”

Ann:And when the kids say, “Why?! Everybody else is doing it; why can’t I?”

Kathy:“Not everybody else is doing it, because you’re not doing it”; the clever comeback, right? “We’ve been asked by the Lord to parent you. We’re not parenting anybody else. We’re parenting you, and we’ve sought the Lord on this.” That would be an assumption here that you’ve prayed. If you have goals, as parents, of how you’re going to parent, then there should be an easy “No.” If you have goals, this is an easy “No.” You say to your kids: “We have prayed and sought the Lord. It is unwise, for reasons we don’t need to go into. We need you to trust us.”

And then, potentially, depending upon everything, Ann—about ages and stages—you could say to your kids: “Have we let you down often?” or “Would you agree that the decisions we’ve made have kept you pure, and healthy, and wise? Have you benefited from our care? Can you name two or three kids in your class who aren’t cared for well, and you can tell by their attitude that they have no one they can run to when they’re in trouble?” You could potentially remind them that you are doing a good job as parents.

Dave:That’s good.

Ann:Would you get into any specifics—like any stats or anything like that of what’s happening?

Kathy:—depending on the age and the stage. There are statistics, sadly, of sexual abuse that goes on at places like that; seances, and witchcraft, and horrific stories. If you don’t let your kids watch horror flicks, you don’t want them going to a sleepover that potentially is going to have either something shown or something talked about; and it could be a five-minute YouTube clip.

If you have a child who’s prone to a disagreeable spirit, or prone to fear easily, that would be a reason I could share. But it’s hard. And you don’t want to say, “In too many cases, there’s abuse.” Then, they’re going to run down their head: “Well, James will be there,” and “Fred will be there,” and “Kevin will be there. Are you telling me that those are bad boys?” So you got to be really, really careful what you say here.

Ann:That’s wise.

Kathy:I think the answer to “Why not?” is: “Because we’ve been told by the Lord it’s unwise, and we don’t question His authority. We believe that we need to say, ‘No.’ We’re so sorry that, right now, you’re hurt.”

Here’s another idea, too: if you don’t want to host something on that particular night; or you don’t want to take them over for the board game before the sleepover starts, you could go to a movie with your daughter. You could go out with your son to a ball game. You could go roam the aisles of your son’s favorite store the night that he thought he would be able to be at a sleepover, and give him a good time. Invest in your son in some way so that he sees it as good.

Ann:That’s one of the things we did, too. We would say to our kids, “We’ll say, ‘No,’ to things that we feel like we are trying to protect you, and we’re guarding you, but we’re going to say, ‘Yes,’ to a lot of other things.”

Kathy:Oh, I love that you said that. Everyone needs to have their “Yes,” things. It’s really hard for kids to handle “No,” when all they ever hear is “No.” As parents and grandparents, choose your “Yeses.” You could, even in that moment, you could let them know, “Hey, the sleepovers: we can’t do the sleepover now. We could do a movie and popcorn night until 1 in the morning. Is that something that’d be worth us hosting for a half a dozen of your friends?”

Dave:Yeah. That’s great.

Obviously, every parent wants to know: “How do I talk about sex?” “When do I talk about sex?” “What do I say about sex?”

Ann:Kathy’s like,—

Kathy:—“Don’t ask me.”

Dave:Go for it!

Kathy:Something I think I’ve said before on the show is: “Be ready for the question, because it will come.” I believe that you share age-appropriate information and nothing more than that. As an example: if a four-year-old says, “Where do babies come from?” They don’t want an OB GYN lesson. They just had a chance to hold a newborn baby for the first time ever, and they’re curious; and so you answer their question in a very lighthearted manner.

If a 14-year-old or a 10-year-old—“Tells me about sex,”—“Why do you want to know?” is maybe something I would come back with. Maybe, they saw a movie; maybe, they heard something behind closed doors last night; maybe they want to know something; and then, you talk. You have a biblical answer for the question—that they’re shocked the Bible has something to say about it—but it does have something to say about it.

So I would be ready.

I would do age-appropriate. I would do one-on-one unless your children or grandchildren are close in age. I would do—first conversation: girls separate from boys; and then, maybe boys and girls together—there’s a lot. Again, I don’t have an expertise on this. I do know, in the teaching we do about conversations, many of my books have chapters about: “How to have conversations” and “How do you help kids talk more?” Again, when they ask a question, ask why they want to know: “Why do you want to know?” Because that’ll help you determine how much detail to go into.

I would speak and watch their eyes because their eyes and their eye contact—what I call ‘the eyebrow lift”—will give away when you just hit on something that was their kind of curiosity thing. Now, you’re going to know to dig into that maybe a little bit more.

Ann:Oh, really?—just by watching their eyebrows.

Kathy:Yeah, it’s the eyebrow lift.

Have a parent face—so when your kid comes to you, and “I want to know about sex,”—ideally, don’t overreact. Ideally, have a stone reaction—and normally, we don’t want to do that—normally, when our kids come to us, we’re all in; and we’re like, “Tell me more.” Ideally, you don’t have much of a reaction. Here’s the thing: if you look fearful, they’ll stop the conversation. If you overreact facially, they’ll either stop talking about that; or they’ll change what it is that they were going to say. They don’t like your fear; they don’t like your anger; they don’t like your judgment.

Ideally, we try to be really—“Whoa; okay, sex wasn’t on the agenda for today,”—so say something that gets your heart to stop fluttering. And then: “Why today?” “Something must have happened; why today?” Why are they asking today?—something happened. Something happened at school; something was said in a biology class; something was said in a health class; they overheard something in the locker room; or again, they heard something behind your bedroom doors. “So why today?” And then, ask what they want to know. Much more I would say, but that’s what I would start with.

Dave:The next one would be porn. How do you deal with that?

Kathy:Carefully, with sadness: “I am so sad.” I really believe that we should often say, “I’m so sorry.”

Ann:You mean, if they’re caught in it?

Kathy:No, if they want to know about it: “I am so sorry that you already know about that. That is not something God ever wanted to be created, and He sure didn’t want you to know about it at your age.” Let them know that their little heart wasn’t supposed to be fractured by this; so “I am so sorry,” is a really important phrase. Again, I believe in the phrase: “I’m sorry that you’re confused, because confusion hurts the heart,” and “It doesn’t resonate with believers; we are not supposed to be confused.”

Then, again, I might say: “Why do you want to know?” “What makes you curious?” “I’m assuming you’ve seen something; talk to us.” Many of them are stumbling on it. You know that many of them didn’t know what they saw, even when they just saw it. This is why we have to be really careful about phones and devices. I wrote a whole book on that, because it’s just a mess.

And then, I would be very truthful, Dave. I would look it up in a dictionary; I would be very concrete and very truthful that porn is—I don’t even know what I would say—it’s not sexual intimacy; it’s not what God designed for marriage, that’s for sure true.

I would probably contrast it with what it is and what it isn’t. I would tell them what it is supposed to be—if they’re nine or they’re nineteen—and they’ve accidentally discovered it; or they come to you, and they’re addicted. Addiction’s easy, because the body does what the body does. They’re not guilty, by the way; they’re not guilty for that. Their body is responding the way that God designed the body to respond. Again, I’m not an expert; but I know that that’s true. And then, I would want them to know what the better is. And what’s better is a marriage between a man and a woman, who commit to stay married forever, and intimacy and love expressed in an honoring way.

Ann:Is there a conversation—I know that you’re going to say, “Yes,”—that we prepare our kids before they’ve seen it?—

Kathy:Oh, yes.

Ann:—how to guard against that. How old should they be when we have that conversation?

Kathy:The age—younger and younger—because of how young they stumble upon it. Or even if they see it just silly cartoons, and silly movies, and shows. So if you don’t have kids with phones; and you don’t have the devices in the room, you can delay it probably a little bit. Although, they could go to a friend’s house and see any number of things.

My gut would be that we would want to prepare them and say, “A reason we have delayed the use of devices for you is that it’s really easy to see things that you did not want to see. You might search for a word and be shocked at what comes up,”—et cetera, et cetera—“As an example, maybe you’ve heard of porn/pornography. It’s dangerous to the heart; it destroys men and women in marriages,”— yada, yada—as much as you think is developmentally age-appropriate.

“And because of that, we are concerned; because we don’t want your eyes to stumble upon that, because it’s going to hurt your heart and confuse you. We want you to know that, if you stumble upon it, we’re here for you. Don’t keep that to yourself, because that’s going to hurt you more. We’re your parents, and we need to know; and we’re not going to be mad first.”

“If you found it—you were looking—we’ll have that conversation.” We’re going to find out: “What was the need that you have?”—because it’s something we teach at Celebrate Kids: “Everybody has a need they’re trying to meet,”—so you ask, “What’s the need that you thought you had that you thought this would meet?” We might have those conversations. “But if you stumble upon it—just come and run, and be honest; and let me hug you and go, ‘Okay; it’s okay.’ And then, we can pray that God will erase the image from your mind. And then, we’re going to go back to the policy where there are no devices in your room.”

Dave:How about parents struggling with—maybe middle school, high school, maybe even older kids—walking away.

Kathy:Oh, Dave.

Dave:They’ve raised them in the church; they’ve led them to Christ—maybe, even baptized them. They’ve seen fruit; they’ve seen character; they’ve seen good things; and now,—

Ann:—at least at the beginning.

Dave:Now, they’re starting to see…; “Oh, no!” Or maybe they are strongly saying, “I don’t believe any of this Mom and Dad”; or they’re drifting—either way.

Kathy:Either way. And in some cases, as you know, they’re angry at their parents for having raised them in the church. Now, they think this was just nonsense.

I want to say to all the parents or grandparents: “Know who you are, and know what you’ve done. Don’t let them rob you of what you know you did well. You raised them in the faith because you believe God is good, and God is real.” The goodness of God is what we ought to share. You remember the tears, and you remember the joy of the baptism. Don’t let the devil take that away from you; that is real. And you did good things by raising your kids for that.

Now, the culture is what it is; and they’re listening to other voices. “So how do we make our voice loud?”

Ann:That’s a good question. Every parent’s like, “Yes, yes! Tell me!”

Kathy:Yes; “How do we do that?” And this is hard.

Dave:Do we scream? Is that what you’re saying?

Kathy:No, no, no; I believe someone has a book coming out about screaming not being effective.

Dave:She’s sitting right beside me.

Kathy:So no, we communicate on a regular basis in writing with little notes, and not a Scripture in every envelope. We love them with their malted milk pies and their favorite cups of coffee. And we talk about everything but this.

One of the problems is that we get so fearful and angry. But you know what? Your kid, who’s walking away, is still a soccer player. And your daughter, who’s walking away, still has a fabulous heart for the lost people. You’ve seen it; she still stops at every corner with the hungry, homeless people and passes a bottle of water. Compliment her for that. Your daughter’s still kept a job for five years in the competitive field, and she’s been honored again by her boss—know who they are in addition to the fallenness of their heart—and talk about all those things. Don’t let them think that the only billboard that you see, when you see them, is: “I’m lost”; because that’s not going to be endearing to them at all. So keep talking about the whole of life and the whole of who they are. That’s part of identity formation.

And then, we ask them—we have a right to say—”I’m so sad for you.” “Well, Mom, I’m happy; I’m not sad.” “Well, I know; but I’m just telling you I’m sad for you. Could you just walk me through what’s one of the voices you heard that convinced you that it was all a lie?” See if you can find out. And then, you go Google research those people; because your heart’s protected—you prayed it up before you ever go to that—but find out who they’re following: which pastor, which musician, or which poet, or whatever. And keep being Jesus in front of them; keep being Jesus.

Ann:In other words, live out your faith.

Kathy:Live out your faith without apology—be generous, and be kind, and be outspoken—still wear the T-shirt, and the cross around your neck; but do more than that; pray them into the family.

Dave:How important is, in your opinion, raising kids with biblical character? How important is it for mom and dad, or mom or dad, or blended family of all situations to actually live that as much as say that? Is one more important, or are they the same?

Kathy:I believe caught and taught, both, are critically important. There are people who say, “More is caught than taught”; meaning that the model is more important than the spoken word. I’m going to go bold here—alright; you ready?—I think a reason more is caught than taught is because we don’t teach.

Dave:Wow!

Kathy:We tell; we don’t teach. Teaching and training is different. I write in this book about—“Teach like a reporter writes: ‘What is it?’ ‘How is it?’ ‘When is it?’ ‘Where is it?’ ‘Who is it?’—you got to teach the details of it all.”

It is caught and taught. If you have no integrity, they won’t listen to you. If you talk about joy—“The second most important quality is joy,”—but you don’t live joy, they’re going to laugh behind your back; and you’re not going to have a way of getting through to their hard heart. So you have to do both the caught and the taught. I think sometimes we’re better at one than the other, and it’ll be peaks and valleys; and that’s okay.

When you realize that you weren’t living out the joy—if you just had a conversation with your son—“Remember, joy is really important; it’s not circumstantial happiness, but it’s joy in Jesus. And we can have this”; you just talked about it; and then, five minutes later, you threw a fit; and there was no joy. Don’t walk away like that didn’t happen; turn around, and go, “Kevin, I’m so sorry. I’m an example of real life. And man, I was distracted. But I’m so grateful that I heard it, and saw it, and I owe you an apology. I don’t want to confuse you.

Dave:That’s good.

Kathy:“I believe joy really matters.”

Ann:Well, I thought it was really good just to go through these character qualities; because joy isn’t one that we normally think of as a character quality, but it is!

Dave:It’s a fruit of the Spirit.

Kathy:A reason I chose joy is that technology has taught kids that they can be happy all the time. That’s a lie from the devil; because happiness is circumstantial, and you can’t control it. Because they value happiness, I want them to seek joy; because joy is real; and joy is everywhere; and joy is in them; and joy is forever if you know Jesus.

Ann:I will say this is probably a value that we have is joy.

Dave:It was a whole chapter in our parenting book.

Ann:It’s a magnet to kids.

Kathy:Love it; love it. Yes!

Dave:It’s a magnet; your home’s a haven.

Ann:It’s a magnet that they want to come home to. In my family, even though we didn’t go to church, they were moral good people. I always, when I was at a party in middle school or high school, I remember always thinking, “I bet it’s way more fun at home than it is here.” We would play games, and we would have so much fun together. There’s something about that: “What’s the atmosphere of your home?” Is it some of these?—is it joyful? —is it humble?—is it resilient?—is it discerning?—even brave. These are just such good words to think about: “What am I communicating to my kids?” and “What am I teaching them?”

Kathy:“What do I want them to be for today’s times? They were created for such a time as this.”

The book includes 48 qualities; and then, I list some of the negative qualities so that we can discern and find it. But then, there’s that baker’s dozen 13; and that’s what you’re reading, because I don’t want anyone overwhelmed.

Gratitude’s first; because the culture’s entitled, because of tech. Gratitude’s first, because it’s evidence of spiritual maturity; because if you know Jesus, there should be gratitude in you and from you consistently. Gratitude’s also first, because it’s a parent virtue; the research says it gives rise to other qualities.

And then, joy is important—because it’s not happiness—that should be the goal. I don’t want people to be unhappy, but I don’t want them to prioritize that because the research says they’ll actually be unhappy if they strive for happiness.

And then the third one is interesting: and that’s self-efficacy. It’s a phrase you might not know—which is okay—self-efficacy is believing “I can be effective.” So we’re talking here about character that changes culture. If I have self-efficacy, I believe I can make a difference. People who are—they have self-effectiveness—believe they can do what they’ve been told.

My favorite example is: “Go fill the dishwasher.” The kid’s terrified; because the last time he filled the dishwasher, he put a bowl in there that didn’t belong in there; and he put a cup in there in the wrong place. And when it was emptied, his mom threw a fit. I hear this all from the husbands, too; “I’m never ever again going to fill the dishwasher.”

But if you train your children to fill the dishwasher: “Why you don’t put a bowl there…” and “If you look at any cup that was painted by hand by Grandma, it doesn’t go in the dishwasher because the speed of the water and the heat of the water can wash off the paint.” If you teach them respectfully—caught and taught—teach them, then they’re able to fill the dishwasher; they have efficacy. Now, when you say, “It’s your turn to fill the dishwasher,” they don’t throw a fit. They say, “Okay.” Why?—because you taught them they can do it. Very, very powerful.

Gratitude, joy and self-efficacy are the foundation of first-time obedience. Isn’t that interesting?

Ann:Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. What do you mean?

Kathy:People who are grateful, and joyful, and can be effective—that’s the foundation of first-time obedience—where you say: “Go to bed,” “Remember to call your grandma,” “Stop gaming,”—they’re more likely to say, “Okay”; because they’re grateful for what they have more than angry that they don’t have. And then, they’re joyful; and they want to keep that joyful spirit and that countenance; and then, they have self-efficacy: ‘I am capable of stopping the game. I am not addicted. Daddy taught me that.” Powerful.

Ann:Doesn’t this make you want to get the book?—every listener.

Kathy:I think people should buy ten and give them away.

Dave:You know what?

Kathy:The children’s pastor in every church should have a copy of it.

Dave:I agree; they should buy ten. Or we’ll give it to you for free if you just send us a donation—FamilyLifeToday.com—we’ll send this to you. And Ann’s going to tell you the phone number, because she knows it so well: 800-

Ann:—F as in Family,—

Dave:Oh, you’re going to go the easy way.

Ann:—L as in Life; TODAY.

Dave:That’s that way, or you can call 800-358-6329.

Did today’s episode hit home with you? I’ll tell you what: we get it.

Ann:Because raising kids can be hard; and sometimes, we have more questions than answers. So listen to what we did: we’ve pulled together some of our most helpful parenting pieces into one spot.

Dave:Go to FamilyLife.com/ParentingHelp. Again, let me say that: FamilyLife.com/ParentingHelp. You’ll get some of the best stuff we have on parenting.

Last question: you’ve mentioned, our listeners are probably thinking, “What is your ministry called?”

Kathy:Celebrate Kids.

Dave:Celebrate Kids. What’s that mean? And what is it?

Kathy:We want people to celebrate kids the way Jesus did and still does; meaning, that children are paid attention to, and noticed, and welcomed into community. We do that by the spoken word. I do a lot of speaking in churches, and conventions, schools, and pro-life organizations, Christian colleges, all kinds of ministry opportunities that we look for.

And then, like you—a published author—hoping to change lives through the written word, trying to be helpful. We have online courses; we have our own podcasts, just really trying to get the message out to people that small changes pay great dividends; and children are worth the effort because they matter.

CelebrateKids.com is our website—CelebrateKids.com—and that’s our handle at Facebook. Instagram would be Celebrate Kids Inc. We would love to have them check us out.

Dave:That’d be great. And we’ll put it in the show notes as well.

Kathy:Great; thank you so much. I loved being with you.

Dave:You can come back anytime.

Kathy:I’ll come!

Dave:—anytime.

Kathy:I would love that.

Dave:Oh, we’ll do it.

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