Conquering the Anxiety Monster: Sissy Goff

Sissy: I’m so much angrier when I’m sad, when I’m worried about something and I’m not talking about it. It really, I think, almost always comes out as anger. I don’t mean for it to, and it breaks my heart that that’s what happens, but it happens.

Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.

Dave: This is FamilyLife Today!

Dave: So, how many nights do you think you could not sleep as a parent? Or even as a grandparent?

Ann: Ohhhh.

Dave: How many sleepless nights?

Ann: I’m sad to say so many. When they were little, I would fall asleep thinking of all the things I did wrong that day.

Sissy: Ohhhh.

Ann: When they were teens, I would fall asleep wondering what things they could be doing wrong.

Sissy: Ohhhh.

Ann: And now, with adult kids, I fall asleep recounting—and worrying over—all the things I did do wrong while they were growing up, and how it might be affecting them today. Isn’t that terrible?

Sissy: Awww.

Ann: Dave, do you worry about anything?

Dave: Yes. I worry about money. [Laughter]

I mean, when I think about sleepless nights, it’s usually connected to, back then, paying for college, preparing them for the future.

Ann: Yes.

Dave: Now, it’s grandkids and how much money we’re spending at Christmas.

Ann: You mean how much money I’m spending on them? [Laughter]

Dave: I didn’t want to say it that way.

Sissy: That’s good; that’s good.

Dave: I’m glad you spend something, because I don’t think I would spend anything. Anyway, we’re here to talk with Sissy Goff about parents who worry, because that’s us, and I think that’s almost every parent.

Ann: I would guess every listener has something they worry about.

Sissy: They can relate to exactly what you said.

Ann: Do you think so?

Sissy: Yes, yes; and it makes me sad [that] I didn’t know you back then.

Ann: You could have helped!

Sissy: I could have helped somehow.

Ann: You could have helped me!

Well, you’re going to help me today, and you’re going to help a lot of people.

Sissy: Okay.

Ann: Your new book is called The Worry-Free Parent. I like the subtitle—

Dave: —yes—

Ann: —because it’s called Living in Confidence So Your Kids Can, Too. That’s what we want, Sissy! So, why this book? This time, you’re in the parents’ world.

Sissy: I know! I’ve obviously written a lot of books for parents, but it’s always been about their kids. I’m sitting with two types of parents a lot. One is parents that I can tell are really anxious. I’ll say, “Well, tell me about your family history.” And they’ll say, “I don’t have a clue!” And as much as they want to help their kids, they don’t understand themselves. So, I think, wanting to help those parents, certainly; and I think it comes out in ways—when we don’t understand it, when we don’t do the work, it comes out sideways.

Kids do start to absorb it, even though we would never intend for them to. And then, the parents who say, “I’m really anxious, and I’m aware of it. I think I’m making things harder for them. Help!”

Ann: Ohh.

Sissy: The biggest agent of change in your child’s life is not someone like me, as a therapist. It’s you, as a parent. So, if you can do the work, and even do the work in front of them, where they’re watching you and hearing you—we talk all of the time about [how] kids learn more from observation than from information. So, when they’re watching you do the work, it normalizes it for them. It helps their understanding of grace, even: “My parents fail, too, and I can do that, and I’m okay.”

Because kids and parents are such perfectionists right now. I’ve never seen it as rampant as it is today.

Ann: When you say, “Let your kids see you do the work,”—

Sissy: —yes—

Ann: —what do you mean? What does that look like?

Sissy: I think talking about our feelings is so important because one of the things that I’ve learned over the years that is really interesting to me is—I mean, I don’t know how many thousands of kids I’ve seen now who have anxiety—they have a few things in common, and my guess is this is true about all of them: they’re really bright, they’re really conscientious. They try so hard. They care so much!

It's these beautiful parts of who God made them to be, and it’s hard to turn the volume down on all the caring. The same is true for parents. Anxious parents are trying so hard to get it right! I had a mom say to me, “It’s like I’m trying so hard to be a good parent that I’m not even parenting.” I think it feels like that so much of the time.

So, doing the work is starting to acknowledge our feelings; and when we’re not doing that, I think all of our feelings kind of morph into anxiety. That’s how it lives in our bodies, because we’re trying hard, and being kind, and doing all those things. We’re not saying, “Hey, that made me angry,” or “I felt disappointed when. . . “. And neither are kids! Which is why anxious kids are so compliant and sweet, until they’re at home, and then, they explode at home.

When we can talk about and share feelings together—not process our feelings in front of them, where they’re hearing all the ins and outs, but—we can say, “I felt sad today when [blank] happened,” and then, we can keep moving. That’s part of it. And then, we can use healthy coping strategies in front of them. You know, “I felt really sad today, and so, I needed to go write in my journal.”

You know, we didn’t grow up with parents who were talking about feelings or, certainly, modeling healthy coping strategies.

Ann: No!

Sissy: How different our lives would have been if we had. So, what a gift to those kids in their lives today and in their marriages and their own parenting, as they move forward.

Dave: I mean, that’s such good advice. I think so often, as a parent—especially as a man; a dad—we don’t want to get in touch with our feelings. Some guys are listening, thinking, “I’m not going to bring up that I was worried today, or that I felt sad today, at work. I just deal with it internally.”

Sissy: Right.

Dave: And we think we’re dealing with it, but we’re not! I mean, one of the things that jumped off the page of your book, immediately, to me—because you break it into the past, the present, and the future—is how, if I’m a worried parent, my kids are—I think it was seven times more likely—to be worried kids.

Sissy: Yes, exactly.

Dave: That’s scary! We’ve got to do the work!

Sissy: I know.

Ann: You know what, Sissy? This was so sad; I haven’t even told my son this, but our youngest son was preaching at a church a couple Sundays ago, and he said some really nice things about—it was about legacy. But he did say, “When I got in my car to leave, and travel across the country to go to this new school—” And this was me, because I said it—“my parents said, ‘Be careful.’” And I said that: “Be careful, hon.”

He said, “You know what I wanted her to say?” He didn’t say “she,” but I knew it was me, because I’m the one that did this. “I wanted her to say, ‘You’ve got this! You’re going to kill it! You’re going to be amazing!’” I’ve been thinking about it for the last two weeks. How many times, as parents, are we warning our kids: “Be careful. Be careful.” Instead of—he said somebody else had told him, “Man, you are really good. You’ve got this!”

Dave, you probably have done that way more than I have. But I thought, “What’s in me that’s in me--?” The older I get, I think it’s worse now.

Sissy: Yes.

Ann: And so, I’ve thought, “That would have been a gift that we could give to our kids: to say, ‘Man, you’ve got this! I’m so confident in you!’”

Sissy: Yes. That’s beautiful!

Ann: Do you think other parents feel that?

Sissy: Oh, absolutely! Absolutely.

I have a friend who said, “I wish, when I was growing up, my mom had said, ‘You’ve got this!’ more than, ‘Let me get this for you.’”

Ann: Oh.

Sissy: So, it’s both. I think we’re not speaking fear; that’s not what that is. You’re cautious, and of course, you care.

Ann: Yes.

Sissy: That’s the most important thing in the world to you, so you want him to be careful.

Ann: But he hears it as, “Hmm, I don’t know if you can do it, so watch out for everything.”

Sissy: Right. And I think it’s worth noting that, when you started that sentence, you said, “He said some really sweet things about legacy.” I wanted to hear the things you did right! [Laughter]

Dave: Oh, she did!

Sissy: But we don’t! We stay with the things we do wrong.

Ann: I know.

Sissy: And it makes us more anxious, you know?

Ann: Yes.

Dave: If I think of anybody that was great at, “Let’s talk about our feelings,” I’m looking at her!

Sissy: I feel confident.

Dave: You were phenomenal. Again, some of it’s processing my family of origin’s brokenness—you know, two alcoholic parents, a divorce, and then, the death of my brother, all in one year when I was seven years old.

Sissy: Wow! Yes.

Dave: We never, ever talked about it! Even when my little brother died. He was my best friend! And I don’t think we had a conversation.

Sissy: I’m so sorry.

Dave: So, Ann and I get married, and conflict happens; I tend to pull away. Again, I’m never connecting these dots, but she said, “We’ve got to talk. We’ve got to talk.”

Then, as we were raising our boys, [she said], “We’ve got to teach them how to do that.”

How does a parent who was sort of like me—who didn’t walk that road; didn’t have that journey—[who] is now a dad, and he’s hearing somebody like you, who’s an expert, saying, “You’ve got to talk about your feelings. You’ve got to process these and help your kids see that.” How do we start? Because first of all, we’re scared. Secondly, we’re like [awkward voice], “I’ve never done this. I’m’ not sure what to do. I’m just going to go watch the game.” [Laughter]

Sissy: Yes, yes. It’s mucky.

Dave: It’s just total escapism, right?

Sissy: Right.

Dave: But that’s where a lot of parents live, rather than saying, “Okay, I’ve got to have—”

Is it courage? “I’ve got to have the courage to say [as if falling], ‘I’ve never done this before, but I know it’s the right thing to do!’”

Sissy: Yes.

Dave: Is that where we start? I mean, how do we start?

Sissy: I think I would definitely say courage. It takes a lot of courage to start to talk about our feelings. I did not talk about my feelings at all until I was 22, and my parents divorced, and I moved to Nashville and got into counseling for the first time.

Ann: Really!?

Sissy: And I remember feeling like someone I don’t know took off all of my skin and everything.

Dave: Yes.

Ann: Did you feel exposed?

Sissy: Yes! It’s awful when you start; but it’s so good. Part of what I want this book to be is, when you’re not talking about it, there are secrets inside of you—shame might be a better word—for the ways that those feelings are impacting you. Not that this was true about you.

But I’m hearing more and more parents talk about “losing it” with their kids than I’ve ever heard, getting really angry. And I’m so grateful that they can, behind the closed, confidential doors of a counseling office. So much of that is because we never talked about our feelings.

Dave: Yes.

Sissy: So, it comes out as anger. And I’m trying to say to worried parents as much as I can: “Your angry not because you’re a bad parent, but because you’re worried, you’re anxious. You’re screaming, trying to get out the door, at your kids, on the way to school, because you realize, ‘He’s already had four tardies. The fifth tardy means he has to go to Saturday school. You know there’s a birthday party.’ So, you find yourself screaming because you want good for him; but the delivery is off,” you know?

We’ve got to back up and do something different. I just feel like parents have more shame than ever before. And I really believe, when we can talk about our feelings in healthy, appropriate ways, we’re preventing anger; we’re preventing us from having this anxiety that, then, makes us say, “Be careful” or stepping in and fixing it for them.

If for no other reason you would do the work than you don’t want your kids to experience what happens when you’re not processing your emotions. I had a mom one time who told her daughter: “Either you process your feelings, or your feelings will process you.”

I’m so much angrier when I’m sad, when I’m worried about something and I’m not talking about it. It really, I think, almost always comes out as anger.

Ann: Yes.

Sissy: I don’t mean for it to, and it breaks my heart that that’s what happens, but it happens.

Ann: I think about when our kids were little, and I was yelling. I thought, “I’ve never yelled in my life!”

Sissy: Yes.

Ann: When that goes off—when you get angry—should that be like an alarm going off?

Sissy: Yes.

Ann: “Go deeper. Check down inside.”

Sissy: That’s a beautiful way to say that. Something more is happening.

Dave: I had a—it was back in that same time, when I was fixing our dryer, and I’m a Mr. Cheapo, so I said, “I’m not hiring some dude! I can figure this out.” I had the whole dryer torn apart. I’m lying underneath, and I was reattaching this belt. I was all proud that I can do this, right/

Sissy: I was about to say, “I’m impressed.”

Dave: Yes. So, I’m lying in there, and I have this Phillips-head screwdriver, and I’m just trying to get this little screw way in the very back of the dryer. C.J., our oldest—very little—comes down, and he, to this day, is an engineer. He works in the IT world; he’s wired that way. He says, “Dad! Can I help?” “Yes, man! Get down here.” He reaches in, and I say, “Here. Just take this and screw it—”

Well, he’s trying to screw it in, but you know, he’s not yet coordinated enough. He couldn’t really reach it. But I had this thought in the moment, because I put my hand around his: “This is a beautiful moment! Dad’s big, manly hand and a little boy’s hand. I never had this with my Dad.” I remember having it at that moment.

The next second, Sissy, I went from this tender moment to him trying to do it, and the screwdriver keeps going off the thing. I said, “C.J., just put the thing—C.J.! C.J.!” Really angry. All I know was, I finish the job, and I feel this little body get up and go up the steps. I was lying there with this epiphany.

Sissy: Yes.

Dave: It was like, “My anger just pushed away a five-year-old.” I remember lying there thinking, “I’ve got to find out what the source of this is.”

Sissy: Wow.

Dave: It was in that moment, it was like, I didn’t realize I’m giving a gift to my child if I do this—

Sissy: —an incredible gift!

Dave: —but it wasn’t [that] I was frustrated with the screwdriver. It was deeper; it was connected; like it’s plugged in. You say in your book—one of your takeaways is: if we don’t deal with our stuff, it will pass on. If we do deal with our stuff, it’s one of the greatest gifts we can give our kids.

Sissy: It absolutely is!

Dave: Is that what you’re talking about?

Sissy: Yes. That is exactly what I’m talking about. That’s a beautiful picture.

Dave: Yes; well, I mean, it wasn’t that day. [Laughter]

Ann: I love these takeaways. You have a lot of “worry-free takeaways” in this book.

Sissy: Yes.

Ann: Tell us about this: “All of us need to hear Truth, but especially those of us who worry.” What does that mean?

Sissy: Well, I mean, one of the things from a cognitive-behavior therapy standpoint, which is kind of the gold standard for working with anxiety, is we—I think in the secular world, we—would call it mantras. We can still call them mantras, for sure, but we would have sayings that we go back to that we say to ourselves over and over, that is something we kind of anchor ourselves to.

I think we can do that with Scripture. It’s not only anchoring ourselves to something, but it transforms us. And the importance of that is what happens—I’m going to get “science-y” for a minute with y’all, okay?

Ann: I like that.

Dave: Do it!

Sissy: When we get anxious—and I feel like we probably talked about this last time I was here—literally, the blood flow in our brain shifts. It leaves the prefrontal cortex, which helps us think rationally and manage our emotions, and it goes to the amygdala; that’s the “fight or flight” region of our brain, which is why you’re having trouble with the screwdriver, and all of the sudden you find yourself really frustrated and yelling.

Dave: Yes.

Sissy: So, you move into “fight,” or you move into “flight,” or whatever; sometimes, “freeze.” When we can slow our bodies back down; when we can calm ourselves down—and truth is one of the ways we want to do that—our blood vessels dilate again, and it shifts the blood flow back to the prefrontal cortex. And we can get to a rational place, but we’ve got to calm our bodies down first.

What happens is, we develop these well-worn pathways in our brain, these neural pathways. So, the more often the amygdala gets triggered, the more likely it is to get triggered. It actually enlarges and develops a hair trigger response. It’s like a faulty alarm system in your house. You don’t know when to trust it. The same is true for our brains, and it starts to lie to us. We start to forecast all the things we feel like might go wrong, because, literally, our brain has changed.

Ann: That’s a good way to say it, too: we start to forecast.

Sissy: Yes!

Ann: We create this whole scenario of what could happen.

Sissy: Yes; exactly.

Ann: Let me ask you: as a listener, how would they know if they have anxiety? What are the signs and symptoms?

Sissy: I have a whole series of questions in the beginning of the book about: “Are your shoulders hunched up around your neck?” “Do you find yourself having intrusive thoughts?” Anxiety, really, can take two pathways: one is through the amygdala, and that just happens in a fraction of a second. It impacts our bodies first. But there’s also cortex-based anxiety. With the cortex, we really think ourselves into a more fearful space.

So, I’m lying in bed, and I hear something, and I think, “Well, that sounded weird. I think that was a man outside my house. Oh, no! I think he’s on my porch!” Then, all of the sudden, you have this whole scenario that you’ve created, and you actually have used your cortex (the thinking part of your brain) to scare your amygdala. So, now, your thoughts are onboard and your body’s on board.

It impacts us in both places; but I think if you regularly feel like you’re having headaches or tummy aches and you don’t know why; you feel like your body’s tense—after I’ve been anxious, my legs are tired, like I’ve been running, which is fascinating.

Ann: Really?

Sissy: Yes, it just impacts all of us different ways. Or if you have—I mean, I think one of the primary ways we recognize it is—with kids, I call it the “one loop rollercoaster at the fair.” If you have thoughts that are worst-case scenario thoughts (“I really failed in that” thoughts), if [you] have anxiety, the thought comes in, and it is an intrusive thought. If we don’t have anxiety, the thought comes in, and it goes right back out. If we’re anxious, the thought comes in, and then, it goes around and around and around.

I think part of the danger of parenting is we feel like we’re helping.

Ann: Yes!

Sissy: Or we think we’re problem-solving.

Ann: Yes.

Sissy: When you’re lying in bed, thinking through all of those things—

Ann: —right—

Sissy: —without realizing, “I’m just looping, and it’s only making me feel worse.”

Ann: I think the first time I realized that was when my sister was diagnosed with lung cancer. In the past, I had always done that. I was always looping.

Sissy: Yes.

Ann: “What am I going to do? What’s the plan? What should we do in the future?” And I remember, at one point, as the Scriptures talk about, “taking your thoughts captive”—

Sissy: I love that verse. [2 Corinthians 10:5]

Ann: And even Romans 12:2 about “not being conformed by the world but being transformed by the renewing of your mind.”

Sissy: Yes.

Ann: I remember thinking, “It’s not doing any good! The more I cycle around this, it’s not helping.” So, I remember, in my mind, handing all of it to Jesus; just a picture in my mind of, “Here, Lord. I just can’t carry it anymore.” And it was the first time I began deciding purposefully, “I will not think about that, because it’s not doing any good.”

Sissy: Way to go!

Ann: It’s the first time I ever got off the roller coaster.

Sissy: Way to go! That’s beautiful.

Ann: Really?

Sissy: Yes!

Ann: I did it, Dave. I did something! [Laughter] High fives!

Sissy: Yes.

Dave: Yes; I feel like you do that quite a bit.

Ann: I think that was the beginning of the process of learning not to, because I thought it was thinking ahead and planning before.

Sissy: Yes.

Ann: What I realized was, “No. This worry is doing nothing good for me.”

Sissy: Yes.

And that’s where I love that idea of taking thoughts captive. You were doing that! You were thinking, “I’m not going to think this thought anymore!”

And then, we need to replace it.

Ann: Oh, that’s good. How do you do that?

Sissy: Truth. I mean, I think we can have a Scripture—

Ann: —Scripture!

Sissy: Yes; I love breath prayers, where we could say, “I can do all things through Christ Jesus who strengthens me.” We start with “I can do all things” as we breathe in slowly, and then, breath out, “through Christ Who strengthens me.” [Philippians 4:13] Or whatever verse you want to pick. We breathe in and say the first half and breathe out and say the second half.

Anything like that—again, we’re calming our body, so our amygdala is getting offline in a good way; we’re getting our thinking brain back online. And we’re anchoring ourselves to Truth. Or I think, even, flipping the thought, and thinking, “I just yelled at my son trying to get out the door because I’m a good parent.”

Ann: That’s good.

Sissy: “Because I want good things for him.” You know, flip it.

We’re doing a lot of parenting seminars on this content. We talk about “Stop, Drop, and Flip the Thought.”

Ann: Oh, that’s good.

Sissy: That’s an easy way to remember it. As you said, stopping that thought and letting go of it—but then, flipping it to something positive.

Dave: “Stop, Drop, and Flip”—

Sissy: —“Flip”—

Dave: —“the Thought.” That will preach.

I find—you know, we’ve been quoting different Scriptures, and—we probably know all the ones that we think of, like Philippians 4:6.

Sissy: Yes.

Dave: “Don’t be anxious” or “Don’t worry about anything.” That’s sort of the “breathe in”—

Sissy: —yes—

Ann: —“but in everything”—

Dave: —“but in everything, pray (request), and the peace of God” replaces it.

Sissy: Yes; beautiful.

Dave: Does that work for a parent in the middle of anxiety?

Sissy: Yes, yes!

Dave: It does.

Sissy: I think it absolutely does.

Dave: Right.

Sissy: And, you know, what’s interesting is, if we keep doing that deep breathing, we can shrink our amygdala again.

Ann: Oh.

Sissy: So, we’re actually resetting and creating new, calmer neural pathways. So, this Truth—and what we know to be true Scripturally—also meets science. And it changes us; I mean, it transforms us.

Shelby: We’ll be back in just a second with a few thoughts from Ann about adult kids and worrying; but first, I remember my doctor telling me one time that stress and anxiety would drastically affect me in the physical realm if I didn’t proactively deal with it, because I used to struggle a ton with anxiety. I still do, but it used to be a lot worse for me.

There is legitimate and profound overlap between the worlds of the mind and the body. So, when we’re riddled with anxiety—when we’re worried constantly—it’s going to manifest in our physical deterioration. So, taking the struggle to God is the absolute best thing we can do, amongst other practical tools that Sissy Goff has helped us with today.

I’m Shelby Abbott, and you’ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Sissy Goff on FamilyLife Today. Sissy has written a book called The Worry-Free Parent: Living in Confidence So Your Kids Can, Too. In a world of constant anxiety that infiltrates families, how can we offer our kids a beacon of hope—how can we experience hope—and be equipped with practical tools to help break the cycle of worry in our lives?

Well, this book talks about that, and it’s an enormous help if you’re a parent who is prone to worry. This book is going to be our gift to you when you partner with us today at FamilyLife. You can get your copy right now with any donation that you make. Simply go online to FamilyLifeToday.com and click on the “Donate Now” button at the top of the page. Or you can give us a call with your donation at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY.” Or you can feel free to drop us a donation in the mail if you’d like. Our address is FamilyLife, 100 Lake Hart Drive, Orlando, FL 32832.

Alright, let’s hear more from Ann about worrying and parenting her adult children.

Ann: You would think that, with adult kids, you’d stop worrying. “Things are great! We don’t need to worry anymore.” I’m finding myself in a whole new phase. Because I have no control, now I’m worrying because I have nothing; my words mean nothing. And then, I try to manipulate the situation. [Laughter] But I think that’s really good: realizing that there is a God in heaven who hears every prayer. As it says, “He’ll guard your heart.” Isn’t it interesting? “Your heart and your mind in Christ Jesus.”

Sissy: Yes!

Ann: I’ve come to the realization: “I don’t want to build that muscle; the negative.” What is it, the amygdala?

Sissy: Yes, that neural pathway; yes.

Ann: To me, it’s like building that muscle. Which one’s stronger? Let’s not keep building that one, but let’s keep giving things over to Jesus.

Shelby: You know, many of us, as parents, really do struggle with constant anxiety about our kids. We’re worried! I’ve even heard mothers say, “Hey, I’m a mom! It’s my job to worry!” But is it? Is it your job to worry? We’re going to talk tomorrow about building resilience and finding hope as we face our worries as parents. Sissy Goff will be back with Dave and Ann Wilson tomorrow to talk about just that. We hope you’ll join us.

On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I’m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

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