Redefining Masculinity for the Modern Man – Brant Hansen

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Redefining Masculinity for the Modern Man

Guest:Brant Hansen

From the series:The Young Men We Need (Day 2 of 3)

Air date:March 4, 2025

Brant:We know this: the culture will tell you, “Hey, as long as you’re not hurting anybody else, what’s it matter? Just do what you want as long as you’re happy.” If you want to sit and play video games 18 hours a day: “Hey, if you’re not hurting anybody.” If you’re not given a bigger vision for who to be, it’s very difficult to say, “No,” to that stuff.

Ann:Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Ann Wilson.

Dave:And I’m Dave Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today!

Dave: Alright, so we got Brant Hansen back in the studio: it’s always a good day.

Ann:It’s a great day when Brant’s with us.

Dave:And Carolyn’s sitting out—listening to the whole thing—she’s waving at us.

Ann:Carolyn is the best wife. Isn’t she the best?

Brant:Yep. We got married when I was 20; she was 21. People were like: “It’ll never work.”

Dave:How many years now?

Brant:Thirty-four.

Ann:“So there!”

Brant:The jury’s still out, but it’s been 34 really great years.

Ann:I can tell she really likes you.

Brant:Well, good.

Dave:Anyway, we’re talking about manhood stuff. You’ve written The Men We Need. Guys and women, if you’ve never gotten that book, get it. And then, a follow-up: (Young) Men We Need. We talked about this yesterday, but why did you even want to write a second one for younger men?

Brant:Because young guys are not given a vision for masculinity; they’re just not. In churches, too, it’s just more generic terms: “We need you to be men,” “Be a man.” “Okay, but what are you talking about?”

And for guys who aren’t necessarily into hunting, fishing—that sort of stuff—which that stuff’s great!

Dave:Yeah, nothing wrong with it.

Brant:Or they’re not into outdoorsy stuff: they’re not climbing mountains; they’re not running with the bulls in Pamplona. I read these books on masculine stuff [written] previously; and a lot of it is a lot of that stuff, but it’s got a Christian dressing on it, which is fine; but what about guys who are more artsy? What about guys who are more—they’re IT professionals; they’re professors—they’re, like most guys, are not in all that stuff.

So there’s got to be something deeper about masculinity that runs deeper than all that—that is great and wonderful—and we should celebrate it; and then, give guys a vision for it. So that’s what both books do. But young guys, in particular, man, I want to influence them; because they respond to this. They hear this vision on masculinity; they’re like, “Oh, that’s it! Yeah!” Again, it’s across all their different hobbies, and abilities, and interests—it’s deeper than all of that—so everybody can relate to it.

Ann:Brant, did you and Carolyn see The Forge, the movie?

Brant:Yeah, I saw it. She hasn’t; I’ve seen it.

Ann:It reminds me of this: of a young man who doesn’t have a vision for who he’s called to be.

Brant:Yeah, without purpose—

Ann:Yes.

Brant:—how do you say, “No,” to all the foolishness if you’re not given a vision? You’re just going through life, and you feel meaningless. A lot of guys do feel meaningless, like, “Well, yeah, that’s because we’re doing meaningless stuff. I mean, we’re doing video games and stuff.”

It’s not a guilt trip; none of this is a guilt trip. It’s just like: once you hear—“I’m supposed to be a keeper of the garden; I’m supposed to protect people; I’m supposed to provide for people; I’m supposed to defend the vulnerable—at every turn with whatever I have. That’s my job: is to bring security to people, not insecurity with my words,”—that’s a huge part of this—with words, you can build or destroy with your words.

Once a guy understands that he’s supposed to build and cultivate other people’s lives, and allow them to bloom—wherever he can—well, now, you got it; now, that’s not meaningless at all. You can see: “I actually do have a purpose.” And for most guys, once you hear this, most guys are like, “Wait a second; that sounds right”; because you are built for that; it just resonates.

Dave:You wake up, on mission; because you have a vision for who you’re supposed to be and what you’re supposed to do.

Brant:And you can reject the ideas about masculinity based on this. For instance, I use the example of Andrew Tate—again, who’s this influencer, huge influencer—I would say a horrible example. He’s got all these children by all these different women he talks about. He’s good-looking, and rich, and got all these cars, and all that.

Now, you can look at that—understanding who we’re supposed to be—and instead of being a young Christian guy, who’s thinking, “Yeah, that guy’s masculine”; you can go, “Wait a second; that guy’s one of the most unmasculine people on the planet. He’s using women, and he’s not taking responsibility for his vulnerable children. He’s not a keeper of the garden—he’s an enemy in the garden—he’s a threat! These women don’t get to feel more protected by him; they feel vulnerable—

Ann:—”used.”

Brant:—“used.” So now, you can reject these tropes about masculinity: “Yeah, that guy is jacked. Yeah, he’s got a big truck. Yeah, he’s ex-whatever—he’s Navy SEAL, whatever—but he is sarcastic with his wife, and puts her down, and makes her feel insecure. That’s not masculine.”

But until you’re given the vision for that—until somebody tells you—you’re not going to pick up on it. The culture, at large, is not going to do that for you anymore. It’s just not going to happen.

Dave:Yeah; it’s interesting, as you talk about young men, you met Bobby—Bobby Markham—he took pictures of us.

Ann:—on our staff.

Dave:He works here. He has been leading his son through (Young) Men We Need. We asked him to tell us how this has gone. So here’s what he had to say.

[Bobby Markham Testimonial on (Young) Men We Need]

Bobby:My wife and I were seeing the need to speak into my son’s life and calling him to a higher standard. I came across Brant’s book, (Young) Men We Need, and decided that I would take my son, Benjamin, earlier this year on a weekend retreat to a resort, where we could get away and read through Brant’s book together: and go through all the discussion questions and have meaningful conversations. I coupled that with having five men, who were influential in his life, to record videos, that would speak also into the topics of Brant’s book, that I would surprise him with in each session.

It really had an impact—not only for him and me in our time together, father-to-son, and opening some great conversation and doors of the heart—but coming home, we just began to notice an impact it was having on his reaction and interaction with his older sisters and his younger brothers, a sense of responsibility in our home. I saw a difference in his maturity through that time; and it really, really blessed our home. Now, things aren’t perfect, but I really do credit that weekend of just being intentional to spend that time with him and use that resource.

[Studio]

Ann:Isn’t that cool?

Brant:It is; it is cool. It makes me really happy for Bobby and his son; it makes me happy.

I honestly got a little bit sad though, thinking about all the guys who never get told this, and it would be so life-giving to them and so life-giving to their future wives. That’s what hurts; because the culture will tell you—we know this—the culture will tell you: “Hey, as long as you’re not hurting anybody else, what’s it matter? Just do what you want as long as you’re happy.” If you want to sit and play video games 18 hours a day: “Hey, if you’re not hurting anybody”; but you are hurting somebody. You’re hurting yourself, number one: you’re going to feel this meaninglessness. A lot of young guys do—you see it—they’re surly, withdrawn. Part of that’s just being a young guy sometimes, but it’s exacerbated by not having any purpose.

Ann:Even the porn thing—

Brant:Absolutely!

Ann:—is destroying future marriages and relationships.

Brant:If you’re not given a bigger vision for who to be, it’s very difficult to say, “No,” to that stuff. Again, you can’t just give up something unless you love something else more. What I’m trying to say, too, to young guys is: “It’s not just about not hurting other people. You’re actively given talents and abilities to do this keeper-of-the-garden thing, where you protect and you cultivate other people; you protect the innocent. This is something you’re made for—and once you start doing it—you come alive, and it squeezes a lot of this other stuff out of your life; because you have a purpose.”

But it hurts though—think about this—most young men, I would say, feel very purposeless. If you ask them what their purpose was—well, you can see it with suicide rates; men to women, it’s like 4-1, something like that—and young guys, it hurts. I do feel like: if we could articulate it, as the people of God, we could say, “Hey, this is what is supposed to be this keeper-of-the-garden thing. Here’s what you’re made for.” Like, for me, I’m not all of that stuff—all the tropes about masculinity—we joke about it, but it’s true. I can’t see straight; I have neurological problems. I got invited to ax-throwing night at a church nearby; I was like, “I don’t think you want me there.

Dave:“Get the human beings far away.”

Brant: “Everyone needs to sign waivers.”

Brant:I can’t do all that stuff: I can’t climb mountains; I don’t have a good sense of balance. “But okay, so what I’m good at is words; I like to write.” You know what? I get to use my words in my particular thing: I use it to work with CURE, this Christian hospital network that helps kids with correctable disabilities. I get to spread the word about it and motivate people to be part of that so we can heal even more kids. I get to defend these children and these moms who are penniless and rejected—because they have a disability—and I get to help heal them through whatever I can do. I’m just using my nerdiness,—

Ann:—your nerdiness.

Brant:—really, honestly—so isn’t that wonderful though?

Dave:Yes!

Brant:So every guy, who’s listening, or every guy you know—once they get a vision for: “This is what I’m supposed to do,” with whatever you have—well, now, that’s wonderful. You might be good at fixing cars; you might be good at all sorts of different stuff, but it’s like, now, you realize: “This is my role to make people feel more secure, not less, the innocent people around me.” And a lot of that is with the words that you’re building people up with or tearing them down; that’s a huge part of it. But all of us can do this.

Ann:Hey guys, we just wanted to take a quick minute to jump in, and say, “Whatever you’re going through today, I think this is important to remember: ‘You aren’t alone.’” Did you know that Dave and I have a team at FamilyLife Today ready to pray for you? It’s this incredible honor and a privilege to lift your name up to God. So if you need prayer, please don’t hesitate to reach out to us; I really mean that.

Head on over to FamilyLife.com/PrayForMe—again, that’s FamilyLife.com/PrayForMe—and tell us how we can pray. And again, we are not kidding. Dave and I have a prayer team specifically dedicated to praying for our listeners. I pray for some of these while I’m on my walks with God—I just pray—I will pray for you. And Dave, you always fast on Fridays; and that’s when you pray.

Dave:Yeah, I take the whole day, and instead of eating food, I’m praying. I’m praying for my family, but I’m also praying for you and your family. Isn’t that a great thing to know that someone’s praying for you?

Ann:Yes!

Dave:And if it’s not, Ann and I praying for you, someone from our small prayer team will pray for you by name. We love to do it, so go to FamilyLife.com/PrayForMe and submit your requests. Do it right now; we would love to pray for you today.

Ann:It’s funny, Brant, when our kids were little, I remember tucking them in bed at night. Once in a while, I’d say, “I can’t wait for you to discover all the things God has put in you.” I remember them saying, “What do you mean? Is it a present?” I’m like, “It is kind of a present. When you understand He’s put different passions, and gifts, and ideas in you—and you start discovering them—of how He wants to use them in the world, those gifts become a gift to other people.” [I wanted] for them to think, “I can’t wait to discover what that is.”

But because I think we’re living in a culture, where we’re so distracted—we constantly have things on our minds; we’re constantly scrolling; we’re constantly in front of screens—we’re not even looking inward to see: “God, who am I?” and “How have you created me?” What is my identity?” “What are my gifts?” “ How do You want to use me in this world to impact it for Your kingdom?”—to bring better, not worse.

Brant:—even within the family. We talked about this: you could tell a ten-year-old, or a twelve-year-old boy, right now today: “Hey, your job is to protect your little brother,” or “…your little sister,” or “…your mom. This is your role in our family. You have a role right now, just so you know.”

Ann:Not—“…when you grow up,”—now!

Brant:“And so when you’re using your words to cut down your mom, or cut down your sister, you’re betraying your role as a defender.” They understand that there’s no reason not to tell them this.

Ann:So instead of saying, “Stop that!” you would say—what?

Brant:“I’m disappointed because your role is to build us up. You’re supposed to be the keeper of the garden; and instead, you’re cutting us down. I’m just disappointed.” You’re coming to that from a larger view.

And when you say stuff like you did, which is just music to a boy’s ears. You can shape guys—you can shape [them]—when they do something that’s positive, too. When you actually see them do it, you make a big deal out of it.

I hate that we’re so manipulatable—but I was laughing about this—we live in south Florida. Again, I’m not handy; I don’t fix stuff very much. We were getting hit by one hurricane after another one year. We were in the eye, I think, of three hurricanes. I had to put up the shutters—these metal shutters—you have to assemble them and slide them over. They’re heavy, and they’re just tough. We live in a three-story townhouse; I’m going up and down. Carolyn said, “You know, it’s really attractive when you put up the shutters.” And she meant it! There’s something about watching me put these shutters up.

Ann:—protecting her.

Brant:Yeah. I just mentioned that—I thought, “That’s funny,”—and I mentioned it on the radio the next day at a radio show in south Florida. Everybody’s doing the same thing.

Ann:—again, using your words.

Brant:Yeah, yeah; right. I mentioned on the air; I said, “It’s something really odd. I was putting up the shutters yesterday. My wife said it was really attractive.” The phones went bananas—

Ann:Yes!

Brant:—with nothing but women: “My husband is so hot when he puts up the shutters.” Isn’t that something?

Ann:I’m not surprised in the least.

Brant:Okay; but guys don’t know this.

Dave:They do not know this.

Brant:But hearing her say that to me—again, I remembered that—“If you catch a guy doing this keeper-of-the-garden thing,—

Dave:—celebrate it.

Brant:—“’I feel more secure because you just did that; I feel safer. It’s very attractive when you make me feel secure,’”—I’m telling you: you’ll get more of that.

Ann:Last night, our toilet was messed up.

Dave:Oh, no; we’re not going to talk about the toilet.

Ann:So Dave—I love this about him—I can say, “This thing’s broken”; and I know he can fix it. I don’t even know how in the world—it’s like a magical trick that he can—he goes in there. And he’s like, “Oh no; this toilet’s different from the Michigan toilets.”

Dave:These Florida toilets are quite a thing.

Ann:He’s all frustrated. There’s something in me, though, that is so happy that he’s in there, fixing our toilet. And then, here’s what he does next—which I’m like, “Oh, I would’ve never done this,”—he gets on our Facebook neighborhood group, and says—what did you say?

Dave:Well, because it was something I’d never seen before. We have a whole neighborhood group—and it’s very active—like, “Hey, these new shutoff valves are different than what I’ve seen. Can somebody give me some info?” Next thing I know: “Hey, my husband will come over,”—like some lady—”and here’s his number.” He showed up, and he helped; and we had it fixed.

Ann:But here’s what I’m thinking: I’m watching these two guys, as a woman—and this is where I give single moms credit, like, “Man, you’re having to handle so much on your own,”—but I’m like, “Look, I love men when they get their stuff done in whatever field. It makes us, as women, ‘Thank you!’”

Brant:Yes.

Ann:“Thank you.”

Brant:All of this is not to say—I make it a point of this in the book, too—to say, “I’m not writing this to say: ‘Here’s how to be attractive to women.’

Ann:Exactly.

Brant:“That’s not the point.”

Dave:And it isn’t, also, that women can’t do this.

Brant:Right.

Dave:Women do these things too.

Ann:Sometimes, we’re better at that.

Brant:I’m making the point is that women resonate with this when you do this at a deep level, because it’s who you’re supposed to be; we’re made for this. And in fact, guys resonate with it when they see other guys doing this—the respect.

Dave:I even wonder, in my own life—I didn’t have a dad, left when I was seven; he drank; he womanized; divorced; he was all about money/obsessed with money—I became the son of a single mom, and my brother died. All of that takes place in the span of a year. But I’ve never even connected the dots. One of the reasons I think I’m supposed to protect Ann—and I knew it even before I was a follower of Christ—that that was something God wanted me to be: is I had to protect my mom.

Ann:Yes.

Dave:As a middle school and a high school boy, I was like, “She has no man in her life. I, literally, am the man.”

Ann:I think your mom told you that.

Dave:Yeah, she said that all the time. At first, I resented it; I’m like, “I don’t want to be the man. I’m seven,” “…I’m eight.”

Brant:I know.

Dave:But as I grew into this—you know this, Brant—there’s something inside a man that says, “I’m supposed to protect. I’m supposed to make people feel secure.” It’s in me!

Brant:It’s there, but it needs to be called out.

Ann:—and cultivated.

Brant:And explicitly saying, “This is your role.” Look, women can do stuff.

Ann:Yeah, we can get it all done.

Brant:Right; right. It’s just that it’s like—I don’t know the analogy I’m trying to use—there’s only trouble that I’ll get in for using this. There’s a car stuck in the ditch. You can probably pull it out with another car; but there’s a truck that’s made for it, with a hitch or something. The guy driving that truck—or the person driving that truck—is like, “That’s what this is made for.” For us guys, it’s like, when you tell us that you’ve seen us do something like that—protecting our little sister or something—that accounts for a lot: “I think that’s what I’m here for.”

There’s a video—and people probably have seen this news video—but it’s in Louisiana. It’s a high school that’s completely overcome with violence. This was in the news a couple of years ago. Remember this?

Ann:Yes, yes.

Brant:Completely overcome—fights—it was terrible! Well, the dads in the area decided to move in. They put on matching T-shirts—and these are all guys, kind of big guys; not necessarily, in shape, big—

Ann:—just regular guys.

Brant:—just regular dudes.

Dad:—dad bods.

Brant:Yeah, yes. And just filling the hallways, greeting kids at the door. They’re coming in; they’re talking/razzing each other, goofing off with the kids saying, “Hey, what’s up?”—getting to know everybody’s names. No more violence at that school, because the dads are there. There’s something deeply wonderful about that.

As a man, I’m watching this video, going, “Those guys are really cool.” None of them are on the cover of Men’s Health. I don’t know what their resumes are, how much money they make, or whatever. But see, that’s such obvious masculinity at its best. Everybody resonates with it—even secular people who deny that there’s such a thing as specific masculinity—they’re the ones putting together the news item about it, going, “Look at this.” We know it’s right.

Ann:And I think what we feel, as women—we talked about this earlier, but women, we have a big load—I’m thinking of these big backpacks that we carry of responsibilities, things that weigh us down. I don’t know what men are like; but we, as women, carry that constantly. When our husband or men aren’t stepping into positions they’re called to—we can cover that—but it’s like putting another 50 pounds on our back. It just feels like, “Man, there’s just so much; I’m exhausted.” And when Dave steps in, and he takes that backpack off—I can do it—but man, when he’s there with me, it feels so much better.

Dave:And we’re called to do it.

But here’s my question, Brant. The first time I think I ever heard a clear vision for manhood—I was 22 years old—which is way too late. We were at the FamilyLife Weekend to Remember—it’s a marriage weekend getaway that we still do—we, now, speak for it. We were engaged; we were going to get married in two weeks. We went because we were told, “Hey, if you’re going to get married, you got to go to this marriage conference.” “Okay”; we go.

We’re sitting there with a thousand couples—big conference—and Dennis Rainey, the founder and president of FamilyLife, was speaking. There was a session on Sunday morning—that we still do today—where we challenge the men to be husbands and dads; and Ann challenges the women. It was the first time I’d ever heard words like: “God calls you to lead like the Savior”; which is, “Lead like a servant,” “Love like the Savior.” Those are the two phrases.

Ann:You can remember that from 45 years ago.

Dave:We’ve taught it—the same manual; it’s a little nuanced now—but “Husbands love your lives as Christ loved the church”; Ephesians 5. He’s teaching what that looked like.

All I know—I’m 22; we’re going to get married in 2 weeks—I was like, “Wow! That’s what I’m supposed to be!”—I never saw it. I had no vision of what it was; there it was. All I know is—on our honeymoon, two weeks later—I am so overwhelmed by that responsibility. It almost put me under; it’s like: “How am I going to love her like Jesus? How am I going to lead her? She needs somebody to lead.” Remember? Then, I about—

Ann:He started crying. That night, he was sobbing. This is our second night of being married.

Dave:She’s like, “What just happened?”

Ann:I had never seen him do that. So I’m thinking, “What?! What’s wrong?”

Dave:What it was—I think I was so overwhelmed with: “Yes, that’s the vision. I can’t reach that vision.” Do you ever sense that?—where men are like, “Okay, now I’m supposed to be the keeper of garden; but I don’t know if I have what it takes to be that guy.”

Brant:Well, yeah. That’s why, since it doesn’t take that long to flesh out the keeper-of-the-garden idea—what that looks like—I shift into, in the book, the six decisions that’ll help you do that, essentially, to give a little more flesh on the bone: “How is this is going to work in our modern lives?” I hope that’s helpful; I think it is—

Ann:I think it is.

Brant:—to talk about what that looks like. Because, a lot of times, it does just become this burden for guys; or another guilt trip—or another finger-wagging thing, like: “You ought to…” “You should…” “You’re not doing…” “You guys…”—you need something better than that: a vision that you can actually do and something that’s profound—so that’s the goal with that.

I know for some guys—especially, if you didn’t get a good role model—I grew up single mom, too, and dysfunctional stuff. So having somebody come alongside, and say: “This is what this looks like,” and “You can do this. I believe in you; you can do this”; I think that’s so important.

Dave:That’s key.

Here’s what I want to say—two things—number one, you’re

coming to Michigan to put up shutters on our house and, probably, our entire neighborhood.

Ann:We don’t have hurricanes there.

Dave:Yeah, we don’t. Number two, we’re going to talk about the six decisions tomorrow. Can you do that? We’ll just throw them out, and you riff on them.

Brant:Yeah, let’s do it.

Dave:I’m not kidding, Brant, you’re coming to do shutters at our house.

Ann:I don’t know why we would need shutters, Brant; but you are more than welcome to come to our house.

What we really want is our listeners to have your book. If you want a copy of Brant’s book, you can send a donation into FamilyLife for any amount; and we will send you his book.

Dave:Just go to FamilyLifeToday.com; you can make your donation there. Or give us a call, 800-358-6329. That’s 800-F as in Family, L as in Life, and the word, TODAY. And we would seriously love for you to donate to FamilyLife, but we’d also love to send you this book.

Ann:And we will send you his book, (Young) Men We Need.

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