The Life We Long For: JD & Veronica Greear

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The Life We Long For

Guests: J.D. and Veronica Greear
From the series: The Book of Romans in the 21st Century (Day 1 of 3)
Air date: January 22, 2024

J.D.: Being able to say, “Hey, the greatest thing that Mom and Dad can give you is not some impossible standard to live up to; it’s a deep awareness of our Savior. Daddy needed a Savior. That’s why Jesus had to die. The reason that Dad got mad last night and blew up at all of you and spoke harshly to Mom is because Dad is very selfish. And if Dad’s a sinner, you better believe Mom is!” [Laughter]

Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.

Ann: This is FamilyLife Today!

Dave: Alright, I was thinking about this. It’s been a long time, but my New Testament final in seminary—you probably don’t even know this.

Ann: No!

Dave: Do you know what I had to do?

Ann: What?

Dave: One of the questions was, “Outline the entire book of Romans by memory.”

Veronica: Oh, whoa!

Ann: Oh, I didn’t know that!

Veronica: Okay!

Dave: Guess what? I aced it!

Ann: Could you do it now?

Dave: No, no! Don’t ask me now! [Laughter]

J.D.: That’s right!

Veronica: You got an “A,” thought.

Dave: I could do it then! I can’t do it now!

I mean, it’s one of the most fascinating, foundational books in all the Bible.

Ann: Every time I read the entire book of Romans, I’m struck with, “This is the most pivotal book!” If you were going to give one of the New Testament books away, I think I would give away Romans.

Veronica: Yes.

Dave: Well, we’re going to find out if J.D. Greear can outline the whole book of Romans. [Laughter]

Veronica: Right.

Dave: From memory! We’ve got J.D. Greear and his wife, Veronica, in the studio. It’s been a long time since you’ve been to FamilyLife Today, but welcome back!

J.D.: Bob, thank you!

Dave: How many years?

J.D.: It’s been about six years, I think.

Dave: Yes, you were in Little Rock.

J.D.: Yes, that’s right.

Ann: And J.D., you have your wife, Veronica, with us, too. How many years have you guys been married?

J.D.: Twenty-three and a half.

Ann: Nice! Four kids.

Veronica: Four kids, yes; two in college, two still at home.

Dave: J.D., obviously, you wrote a book that we’re going to talk about a little bit today: Essential Christianity: The Heart of the Gospel in Ten Words. I didn’t know it until I picked it up, but it’s the book of Romans.

J.D.: Yes.

Dave: I mean, this isn’t just a book. This is a serious—something you’ve thought a lot about: understanding the essential foundation of Christianity. So, why this one?

J.D.: When you go back through Church history, you realize that every major awakening—spiritual awakening—in our country, and you could almost say in Christian history, has come in part because of a study of the book of Romans.

Ann: Really?

J.D.: Whether you’re talking the Reformation, with Luther and Calvin, and you just look at their writings, to the preaching of Wesley and Whitefield and Johnathan Edwards, Romans is so core to it. So, that was one thing. I just really wanted to do it at our church as a way of bringing us to the centrality and the clarity of the gospel.

The other one was a desire—I mean, we’re in a day of deconstruction; sometimes, because of rightful concerns they have about the fusion of Christianity and politics or, you know, Christianity as, basically, self-help. There are a lot of people, especially in the area that I pastor in, who are deconstructing. So, I wanted something that would just really get us back to what the essence of the gospel is, when you strip everything away.

When you look at the book of Romans, it is a very logically laid out outline. It’s probably why your seminary professor had you do that.

Dave: Yes, right.

J.D.: For the first hundred or so years of Harvard’s Law School, they would have them study the book of Romans as an example of argument-counterpoint illustration. All of that to say, I started to teach our church through it, and we had 1,000 people profess faith in Christ that year—

Dave: —wow—

J.D.: —through this series. It brought renewal to our church. When it was all said and done, there were some other people I thought, “Man, I’d love to be able to get this in a form that would assist them in sharing the gospel with people outside the church.” So, I put it into a book form.

Dave: That’s great! Now, Veronica, do you sit and listen to this guy preach? And do you give him critique like my wife always did?

Veronica: I do, yes! I really enjoy it.

Ann: Me, too! [Laughter]

J.D.: She is my biggest affirmer, and also my most insightful critic.

Dave: Yes.

J.D.: In a good way.

Dave: Yes.

J.D.: And then, there are some times I ask, and I’m fishing for something. I want some affirmation, and she’ll say, “Your shirt didn’t match.” [Laughter] You know? Or something like that. I’m like, “That’s not really what I was looking for, but—” [Laughter] “—thank you for telling me that.”

Dave: Well, as you think through walking through the book of Romans—and obviously, you know, we’re a marriage and family listening base—walk us through how the book of Romans can be essential, even for us leading our families.

Veronica: Yes.

J.D.: Two things come to mind, Dave, when you say that. One is just the centrality of the gospel to all of life. When you think about how to become a better parent, how to become a better husband—you know, I love, when I preach, to be very practical and to give people steps and things they can take home; at the end of the day, when the Apostle Paul wants to motivate husbands to be better husbands and fathers to be better fathers, he points to the gospel itself.

It's not “Five Steps I Can Give You That Will Make You a Better Husband.” It’s embracing the 10,000 steps that Jesus took when He came to rescue you that makes you that kind of husband and father. Martin Luther was the one who said it. He said, “Whatever the problem is in the Christian life; whatever you’re trying to grow in, the gospel is the answer. The gospel is always the prescription.”

So, I think studying the book of Romans will make you a better husband, a better wife, a better father. And that leads me to the second thing, and that is that parents listening to this, probably our biggest question is, “How do we teach our kids to know and to love the gospel?” Our kids, as every parent I know will attest, are a lot more in tune with hypocrisy and things that don’t make sense.

Dave: Yes.

J.D.: Things that we just say because we’ve always said it.

To be able to say, “Here’s why Christians believe that Jesus is so important. Here’s why we say He’s the only Way.”

Dave: Yes.

J.D.: “Here’s why we devote so much of our lives to this.” You don’t have to be an expert on everything in the Christian life, but you should be an expert on the gospel, and the book of Romans is the book that is written to make you an expert on the gospel.

Dave: Yes.

Veronica: Yes; I would say that I find myself going to Romans so often when my kids ask me questions about [matters] of faith. I mean, it so compactly answers so many of those different questions.

J.D.: I’ll share a story really quickly from outside our family: one of the things I had the privilege of when I was writing this book was [getting] to know a professor at one of the local universities there in the Triangle area—a very prestigious university, she was a very distinguished professor within that. She wrote for the New York Times, and she was not a Christian by any stretch. But I had a chance to befriend her and get to know her. She even visited the church some. [She] described herself as “a paragon of the secular left.”

Dave: Wow!

J.D.: That’s how she described it. So, I asked her if she would read the book as I wrote it. I said, “Would you—?” “Because I’m not writing this just for people in the church, I’m writing this for—"

Dave: Right.

J.D.: And she said, “Sure.” She said about halfway through it: “You know, it is remarkable that here’s a book, literally written 2,000 years ago, and when you get down to the essential questions that the Apostle Paul is answering, they’re the exact same ones that all my students ask today.”

Dave and Ann: Wow!

J.D.: Now, praise the Lord, during the process of writing this book, she became a Christian! Through it—it wasn’t just because of the book; there were a lot of things that went in there, but all of that to say that there is a fresh relevance that you’ll find in the Word of God and in the book of Romans that will make you better-equipped, whether you’re sharing Christ with a New York Times columnist or whether you’re talking to a 7-year-old.

Dave: Now, do you know by memory what you said the definition of the gospel is?

J.D.: “God, in an act of grace, sent His Son Jesus to earth as a Man, so that through His life, death, and resurrection, He could rescue us, reign as King, and lead us into the fullness of eternal life we were created to enjoy!”

Ann: That’s a pretty good definition. [Laughter]

Dave: Yes! I mean, did you literally sit down with the book of Romans and then, just craft that out? That’s not just a couple of words.

J.D.: Yes, right!

Dave: I mean, you’ve put it all together.

Veronica: Well, you were teaching through it for so long—

J.D.: Yes, teaching through it for so long, and then, it just sort of grew. It started out as ten words—I wanted to do it in ten words—and then—

Veronica: —it wasn’t going to work.

J.D.: —it wasn’t going to work. Then just, “What are the essential points about the gospel?” The Kingship of Jesus [is] one of the things people, a lot of times, leave out; that He is brought a Kingdom, and He’s the Lord. Grace is what separates the gospel from every other religious message in the world. Every other religion of the world works according to the premise, “I obey; therefore, I’ll be accepted. If I obey well enough, often enough; if I’m righteous enough, I’ll be accepted.”

The gospel flips that! It says, “No, you are accepted! You are accepted because of an act of grace; therefore, in response to that, you obey.”

Ann: I remember giving my life to Jesus. I didn’t grow up in a Christian home, but I remember the first time I read Ephesians 2:8-9: “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and it’s not of yourself; it’s a gift from God.” [Paraphrased] I remember putting down my Bible. I didn’t know how to get to heaven! So, when I read it was not as a result of works that anybody can boast [of] or talk about—it’s just grace, that blew my mind, as a little 16-year-old. “How is this true?”

Veronica: Totally.

Ann: Let me ask you guys this: what does that look like in your family? Four kids and a marriage. Talk about grace.

J.D.: So, we’ll have two different answers! [Laughter] I’m going to give more of a—

Ann: —theological?—

J.D.: Yes, yes. And then, I know where your mind will go with that [Veronica].

Veronica: You want me to do the practical?

J.D.: Yes, of course.

I actually used this in church yesterday. I was talking about our identity in Christ, and how Satan, our enemy, when he attacks us, the first thing he goes after is our identity.

Ann: Yes.

J.D.: To Jesus, in the Temptation, he says, “If you really are the Son of God—”

Dave: Yes.

J.D.: Which is ironic because that’s what the Father had just declared over Jesus.

Dave and Ann: Yes!

J.D.: “You’re my beloved Son.” That’s what Satan does with our kids, too. I said, “It’s almost like—imagine—a swimmer who’s about to swim, and as he’s standing on the platform, waiting for the [starter’s] gun to off, at the finish line, there’s a banner that says, ‘Acceptance, Worth, Value.’ Our kids grow up in a culture where that starting gun goes off, and they are thrashing with all of their might, because they believe that unless thy get there first—unless they’re smart enough, pretty enough, athletic enough—they’re not going to have acceptance. So, their whole life is a quest toward acceptance.”

Well, what the gospel does is, it flips it and says, “No, no! You are accepted. That’s grace! And because of that, you can swim out of that.” So, now, instead of thinking of acceptance as the banner at the end, think of it as the platform that you’re standing on. I’m no longer in this race of life—I’m not sending my kids out in this race of life—in order to earn the love and acceptance of God. I’m sending them out because they have it.

“Whatever else happens, whether you succeed or fail, whether you’re the most popular or you’re not, you have the absolute approval of the only one whose opinion really matters.”

Dave: Wow!

J.D.: In a day when we’ve got—I shared some of these stats yesterday: 91% of teenagers report anxiety issues.

Ann: 91%!?

J.D.: 91%! In the last 15 years, the number of girls who say that they are persistently sad and hopeless—in the last 15 years—that number has gone from 10% to 57%.

Veronica: In 15 years.

J.D.: In that kind of day, that’s all coming out of this search for identity.

Dave: Yes.

J.D.: Grace is the answer to that endless striving of, “I’ve got to be pretty enough, smart enough, successful enough.” And that’s where I think grace matters.

Dave: Yes, that’s good. I love the illustration. It would be a little bit better if it were a football illustration. [Laughter] But swimming works.

Veronica: We’ll take it!

Dave: What a great picture that really is1

Ann: Veronica, what does that look like with your kids?

Veronica: I do think it’s a struggle to know how to apply it, even if you’re looking at consequences and things like that. So, sometimes, I do think—we’ve even had conversations about—as Christians, parenting in this situation, you’re disciplined by God because He loves you, right? That’s His love at work.

J.D.: Not out of anger or retribution.

Ann: Right.

Veronica: Out of His love. So, knowing what that application is can be a little bit situation-by-situation; but we have tried to really drive home the question of identity, and talking about that. That’s even kind of “Christian” language a little bit.

Ann: Yes.

Veronica: “Your identity is in Christ.” Trying to flesh that out. What does that phrase mean, that you’ve heard for a long time if you’ve been in church? What does that mean?

It actually means that your approval is secure, so you can function from that approval.

J.D.: It means—we talk about this: we spend a lot of time just trying to confess our own sins to our kids.

Ann: Yes!

J.D.: Because, you know, our kids kind of grow up with this idea that Mom and Dad are perfect; they’re the law.

Veronica: At least, certainly, for a while; yes.

J.D.: Yes, yes. Our teenagers don’t think we’re perfect.

Veronica: No, they don’t! [Laughter] But when they’re younger. . .

J.D.: Being able to say, “Hey, the greatest thing that Mom and Dad can give you is not some impossible standard to live up to; it’s a deep awareness of our Savior. Daddy needed a Savior. That’s why Jesus had to die. The reason that Dad got mad last night and blew up at all of you and spoke harshly to Mom is because Dad is very selfish. And if Dad’s a sinner, you better believe Mom is!” [Laughter]

Dave: Times ten, yes!

J.D.: You know, just—you can—if my kids have anything, what they need from me and from both of us is not a Pharisaical example that they can never live up to.

Ann: Yes.

J.D.: They need a Savior that we can hope in!

Veronica: When you go back to this—Romans 7, Romans 8—“There is therefore now no condemnation for those of us who are in Christ Jesus.” So, even when we deal with mess-ups from them, [we] try to contextualize for them that we’ve had that.

J.D.: Yes.

Veronica: “Look at the redemption that has been brought in my life.”

J.D.: And you’re really good at that! Because I’ll be kind of like, “You have to do this!” And she’ll just very quietly say, “Hey, none of us is ever really able to do this apart from the help of Jesus, and that includes us. I know when it feels impossible,” she’ll say to our kids, “Jesus can help you do it.”

Veronica: Yes, we talk about that a lot. So, when you find—when they’re in the depth of—despair may be a little bit of an overstatement, but when they’re really burdened by something, [we’re] explaining that, because of that message, first of all, your place is secure, and that power is available to you at any moment, to do what He’s called you to do.

J.D.: I just feel like somebody out there needs to hear this. I need you to understand that our dinner table—please don’t have the image that the kids are sitting around with notebooks [Laughter], “Share with us, Daddy, great wisdom about the gospel.” [Laughter] I mean, that’s—

Veronica: —hymns playing in the background.

J.D.: Yes, hymns playing.

Veronica: And they’ve got journals.

Dave: That’s how it was at our house!

Ann: Wait, that is our house! What are you talking about? [Laughter]

J.D.: I used to get so mad during family devotions.

Veronica: They were also mad about it!

J.D.: They’re mad about it; I’m trying to make a point. They’re looking off in the distance—

Veronica: —and some would be at the table going [hand motions]—

Ann: —“speed it up!”

J.D.: Yes, “wrap it up!” Somebody breaks wind at the table.

Dave: Yes.

J.D.: And now all the attention’s on that. You know, I’m a big fan of family devotions. We continue to do them; but it’s the living out, day in and day out; it’s the unscripted conversations.

Dave: Yes.

J.D.: It’s the confession of sin! It’s processing something about why this bothers me, and how I’m trying to take that to the Lord; those kinds of things. I mean, again, I’m a huge fan—I’m a preacher for a living, so I’m a big fan of sermons and family devotions; but at the end of the day, it’s relationship that we’re giving, not a lecture.

Dave: The light of the gospel becomes so much brighter when you understand the darkness of our sin.

J.D.: Yes.

Dave: Did you ever go there with your kids? They’re older, so they’re able to process some of the darkness in your own life.

Veronica: Yes.

Dave: Was that something you authentically shared with your kids? Or is that something you—there are boundaries?

J.D.: Yes; I think sometimes pointing out, “Hey, the reason that this is in you goes back to something that is so bad that Jesus had to die. I mean, the first place we get acquainted with our own depravity is within ourselves.” Talking about the world around them, and things that we’re dealing with; you’re trying to navigate sympathy and compassion toward people who are struggling with things, but then also realizing that there’s a sin nature that the only way for Jesus to eradicate it was through His death.

I think it’s a wise question you ask, Dave, because I think in our culture, a lot of people try to get to the gospel before there’s an awareness of the need for it.

Dave: Right.

J.D.: Francis Schaeffer famously said if he had an hour with a modern person, he’d spend 50 minutes trying to get them lost, and only 10 minutes explaining the gospel. [Laughter]

Ann: That’s good!

Dave: Yes.

J.D.: So, with our kids, we’re trying to help them see, “You need a Savior!” Everything within us wants to say, “I don’t need a Savior. I need some religious tweaks.” But the book of Romans screams. By the time you get to Paul’s explanation of the gospel, if you’ve been paying attention and following along, everything in you is saying, “I’m desperate! I need something!”

Dave: “Who’s going to deliver me?” Yes.

Ann: I remember—I think one of our grandkids was four—she said to me, “Nonny” (that’s what they call me, “Nonny”), “sometimes I like doing what’s wrong.”

Veronica: There you go.

Ann: “Sometimes, I like it!” And I’m telling you, all the time, as parents, we have an opportunity to bring in the gospel.

Veronica: Right.

J.D.: Yes.

Ann: Because of that! It’s that depraved, sinful—don’t we all like to do something that’s sinful sometimes?

Veronica: Yes, yes; and how do you overcome that, right?

Ann: Exactly.

Veronica: When you have those moments, yes.

Ann: Sharing the gospel: “This is why Jesus came.”

Veronica: I love that!

Dave: So, you’re saying a lot of the way you taught your kids was—at least what came to my mind—Deuteronomy 6: “Along the way”—

J.D.: —yes!

Dave: —“at the table, as we walk, as we sit, as we lie down.” Is that how it happened in the Greear home?

J.D.: Yes, I think so. You know, right now, with teenagers in the house, it’s “survive and advance.” [Laughter] You know, I used to say, “Before I had kids, I had four great sermons on parenting. They were awesome!” [Laughter] Now, I have four kids and no great sermons on parenting! [Laughter]

You know, there is a sense in which—and I think every parent easily understands this—at the end of the day, our hope for our kids is not in our excellent teaching abilities; it’s in God’s grace.

Ann: Yes.

J.D.: Elyse Fitzpatrick, who I think you have had on this show here—

Ann: —yes!

Dave: Sure.

J.D.: She has done some stuff on parenting, and I’ve read almost all the parenting books out there, for what it’s worth, and mainly, out of desperation.

Veronica: Yes.

J.D.: But one of the things that she pointed out is, most Christian parenting books follow a formula. That is, you know, “if you do this, and you do this, then your kids will become this.”

Dave: “A + B,” yes.

J.D.: And there are a lot of great principles in those, you know?

Dave: Yes.

J.D.: She said, “What that does is actually really discourage and overwhelm you as a parent.”

Dave: Yes.

J.D.: She says, “First of all, for context, God, who was the perfect parent, only ever directly parented two people, and they both rebelled.”

Veronica: Yes.

Dave: Yes.

J.D.: So, you’re not going to out-technique God! [Laughter]

Veronica: No, it’s not going to work.

J.D.: Let’s just be really clear.

She said, “The bigger tragedy is, sometimes, that focus on technique—even good techniques, biblical techniques—will keep you from the one thing that you most need with your kids, and that is, hope in the grace of God.” Hope that when it’s all—just like it is with the gospel: it’s not my righteousness that saves me. It’s not my great parenting that saves my kids. My hope is in the grace of God for my salvation and for their salvation and development.

As a couple, I will say that parenting actually drove us more to the Lord.

Veronica: Yes, it did.

J.D.: It’s not that we weren’t walking with Him.

Veronica: No, no.

J.D.: We prayed together, but it took our prayer life to a new—

Veronica: —yes.

Ann: —us, too!

J.D.: Yes.

Ann: There’s that desperation.

J.D.: That’s right!

Veronica: Yes. Kids, being their own people, that you, at the end of the day, actually, have no control over, right?

J.D.: Yes.

Veronica: You can’t—I mean, you can ensure that, as parents—

Ann: —I know that sounds very depressing for most of you— [Laughter]

Veronica: —it does!

Ann: —but you come to that realization.

J.D.: Yes.

Veronica: But it actually is, simultaneously,—

Ann: —freeing!

Veronica: —as is so much in the gospel and in walking with Christ; it is kind of depressing and freeing.

Dave and Ann: Yes.

Veronica: All at one time! It’s very weird.

Ann: Yes.

Veronica: So, there’s nothing I can do about this kid, who’s going to be their own person and make their own choices that I do not always think are right and good, because the Lord is doing something there that I actually have no part of. Now, He put me in their life! I’m not trying to disown that; I have a responsibility before the Lord to bring them up in the admonition of the Lord. You can’t just slough off that; but it is not our responsibility to actually get them to love God.

I can’t get them to love God. They’ll see it in us, which is only good; that’s a great thing!

Dave: Yes.

Veronica: But I can’t do it enough, or right, or in the right manner; so, that was why I think parenting broke us of that unacknowledged belief.

J.D.: Yes. We’re not really responsible for our kids as much as we’re responsible to them.

Dave: Yes.

Veronica: Right.

Shelby: Now, we’re going to hear more from J.D. Greear here in just a few seconds with some encouragement for us as we think about the responsibility of raising our kids, but first, I’m Shelby Abbott and you’ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with J.D. and Veronica Greear on FamilyLife Today.

J.D. has written a book called Essential Christianity: The Heart of the Gospel in Ten Words. This book really offers a contemporary interpretation of Paul’s message in the book of Romans, kind of bridging the gap between the biblical context and the challenges faced by modern individuals. You can go online to FamilyLifeToday.com to pick up a copy. Just click on the “Today’s Resources” link or you can get the link in the show notes. Or you can give us a call to get a copy at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY.”

Alright, here’s J.D. Greear with some encouragement for parents when you feel like the weight of the world is on your shoulders.

J.D.: Psalm 136 is the story of the history of Israel. The psalmist, in telling the history of Israel, goes through the highs and the lows, and between everything he puts the little phrase, “The steadfast love of the Lord endures forever.”

Dave: Yes.

J.D.: So, I decided one afternoon that I was going to write my own history in the [way] of Psalm 136.

Veronica: It was like a book that said to do it or something.

J.D.: Yes, most of my great ideas, I got from somebody else! [Laughter] Just for the record!

Veronica: Anyway, he goes to write it—

J.D.: —I’ve had three original thoughts in my lifetime. [Laughter] Anyway, I was going through—and I had awesome parents! I mean, they were just really godly, and faithful to each other, but as I wrote out this history, and I wrote “the steadfast love of the Lord endures forever” between all the things, when I got to the end, and I read it, I realized that, even though I had awesome parents, not one—not one—of the major turning points,—

Veronica: —spiritual—

J.D.: —the God-moments in my life, did my parents have anything to do with.

Ann: Oh.

Veronica: Yes, it’s kind of incredible.

J.D.: And it’s not because they weren’t—

Veronica: —actively—I mean, they were!

Ann: Yes.

J.D.: It’s just that God was writing my story.

Veronica: Yes.

J.D.: And all of the sudden, it was like a thousand pounds fell off my shoulders, because I realized, “God’s writing my kids’ stories, too.”

Ann: So good.

J.D.: So, yes, we’re trying to lead them, but in the end, when they’re telling their story one day, God wrote it, not J.D. and Veronica.

Shelby: I have to tell you this: today is the last day to be able to get 50% off on all Weekend to Remember® marriage getaways. The sale’s been going on since January 8th, and today is the last day. I want you to ask yourself, and really answer honestly: how would you rate the quality of your marriage on a scale from one to ten? Now, that number in your brain might scare you or it might make you excited; regardless of where you might be, I really want to encourage you to check out FamilyLife’s Weekend to Remember marriage getaway.

We’ve been doing this for the last 40 years, and we’ve seen so many marriages impacted for the glory of God and the health of relationships. We want to see that for you, too. So, today is the last day to register and get half off the registration price. You can go now to WeekendtoRemember.com to find a date and a location that works for you and save 50% off. Your marriage is really worth it! Head on over there to WeekendtoRemember.com.

Now, coming up tomorrow, we all want to understand the transformative power of the gospel in our marriages, especially when it comes to relational problems and the element of forgiveness. Well, J.D. Greear and Veronica Greear are going to be back with Dave and Ann Wilson to talk about just that tomorrow. We hope you’ll join us!

On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I’m Shelby Abbott. We’ll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

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