Hey, I’m Struggling: John Elmore

John: One day in Dallas, I ran into my “ex” three times. The “ex” that I was running into

was Jack Daniels^® on a billboard. It’s because, specifically, they have created this rye whiskey. I [was] looking at it, and I [was thinking], “Ah, man! I quit drinking too soon. I never got to have that!”

Dave: Wow.

John: “I wonder what that’s like.”

Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.

Ann: This is FamilyLife—

Dave:—Today!

Dave: My dad had a drinking problem for over 60 years of his life. He finally got free in an interesting way.

Ann: Yes, your dad got remarried and I happened to, when we got engaged, I went down to visit your dad and his wife of maybe ten years, your stepmom. I remember asking her, “Tell me about you and Dave." (Dave was named after his dad.) “Tell me about your life with him.”

She said, “Well, I had no idea he was an alcoholic when we got married.” She said, “I thought, ‘I have got to come up with a strategy.’ I thought to myself—” —and she didn’t have faith, but she was pretty intuitive—she said, “I thought to myself, ‘What does he love the most in life?’ The thing he loves the most in life is money.’”

Dave: He loved his stuff.

Ann: Yes, he did. So, he would blackout, and she would go around the house and destroy it. She’d break mirrors, windows,—

Dave: —lamps—

Ann: —furniture; everything. Then the next day, when he would come to, he would be aghast saying, “What happened to the house?”

She said, “This is what you did last night.” [Laughter]

John: Oh, my goodness!

Ann: “And it’s happening every night.”

John: That’s amazing!

Ann: “Every night. there’s more and more.” He said, “I can’t afford to drink anymore. I’m destroying everything in my life!” So, he got sober. [Laughter]

Dave: Of course, that doesn’t work with everybody—

Ann: —no!

Dave: —but it worked with my dad. It was a switch that flipped, and he became a different man the last ten years of his life (or fifteen years).

Ann: I think, Dave, the thing that really changed him was he came to faith in Jesus.

Dave: Yes.

Ann: That’s what ended up really transforming him.

Dave: It was a pretty amazing transformation.

Today, we get to talk about all kinds of struggles that people deal with—alcohol; it could be drugs; it could be pornography or anger or food.

Ann: Addiction.

Dave: We’ve got John Elmore back with us. Welcome back to FamilyLife Today, John.

John: Thanks, Dave and Ann. It’s a joy to be here.

Dave: We’ve already heard your story this week on FamilyLife Today, coming from your

book, Freedom Starts Today: Overcoming Struggles and Addictions One Day at a Time. Again, I introduced you this week as the Director of Pastoral Care at Watermark Church in Dallas. But what’s fascinating is, obviously, your story put you in this seat to lead a recovery ministry of over 1,200 people a week. I’ve never heard of a church having that kind of attendance.

Ann: John, what do you do? Tell us about that.

John: It’s a total work of God. I think we can forget that sometimes because it’s become kind of normal. But every Monday—we call it the spiritual emergency room of

the DFW Metroplex—[we] have over 1,000 people every Monday; and half of

them have zero affiliation with our church. Tey’re just wandering in because of their

pain. They get loved and discipled. They’re told in very honest terms, because everyone has sin, not everyone has a Savior—so, we’re very clear and very honest.

We would never call it this, because no one would come, [but] it’s year-

long discipleship. The front of the sign says “Recovery.” They come in for their problems. The back of the sign, after they leave one year later, says “Discipleship.”

They’ve been led, and loved, and shepherded in Jesus Christ.

There’s large-group teaching, worship, and testimonies every Monday night; and then, you break up into gender-specific groups, male and female. You’re in a small group, then, for a year. It’s every struggle under the sun. I mean, we’ve got witches, prostitutes, pimps, drug dealers, drug addicts, prideful CEOs, homeless; and Jesus sets them all free when they’re ready. It’s a beautiful thing.

Dave: Let’s talk about how He sets them free, because that’s—your book’s actually a devotional; a 90-day devo that you can read and let God use it to lead

you to freedom.

John: Yes.

Dave: You’ve already told us your story, which, talk about being real and honest! If the listener missed it, you’ve got to go back and listen—

Ann: —yes!

Dave: —because it was a powerful day.

Ann: We were all crying in the studio that day, like crying hard!

Dave: In some ways, because I didn’t know you then, it’s almost hard to believe. You look at you now, and you talk about redemption and new life in Christ and a new creature. The old is gone! I’m looking at a new creature based on what you shared; a guy ready to end his life because he was addicted to alcohol is set free.

But it wasn’t like instantaneous; right? It was, “set free,” and some people walk away and they never—and yet, you even shared, in the book, how you’re driving around, and you have flings with your “ex.”

John: Yes.

Dave: Talk about that a little bit, because when you read that, you’re thinking, “What’s he talking about?” But it’s different than you think.

John: Yes, I think that end dream might be called “lingering lovers.”

Dave: Yes.

John: One day in Dallas, I ran into my “ex” three times. I mean, Dallas is a big city,

right?

Dave: Yes.

John: It’s one of the nation’s top-ten largest cities, so to run into someone by

happenstance three times, you’re thinking, “What is going on here?! I’ve got to find new

routes to work or something, because this is crazy!”

The “ex” that I was running into was Jack Daniels on a billboard. Specifically—I mean, I

still can see it in my mind’s eye and remember it—it’s because they have created this rye whiskey. They didn’t have it then; they just had Jack Daniels whiskey, “Gentleman Jack.”

I know too much about alcohol as a recovering alcoholic. That came out when I was in college. They didn’t have rye, so I was looking at it, and I was saying, “Ah, man! I quit drinking too soon. I never got to have that!”

Dave: Wow.

John: “I wonder what that’s like.”

Dave: Wow!

John: “I’d probably have that neat; maybe a highball glass, a couple cubes of ice.” I

mean, I’m there. I’m already thinking about my “ex”—three times, three billboards, in three different locations.

Satan doesn’t take vacation. He knows; he remembers. I’ve heard way too many stories about people who had ten years, fifteen years, twenty-five years of sobriety from alcohol, porn, eating disorder, whatever, and then they fall. When they fall, they fall hard.

Dave: Yes.

John: Relapse is an ugly thing! It’s not ugly that it shouldn’t be talked about. But when it

happens, we usually go pretty big once we cave.

To that end, I think this book is helpful in that way. It’s what I said before: I thought Jesus just saved us eternally. He wants us—invites us—to walk with Him daily, and as we do, He promises—it’s His promise—I mean, that’s crazy—God gives a promise. He says, “You will not do what you don’t want to do. You won’t gratify the desires of the flesh if you walk with Me.”

Dave: Yes.

John: “That’s all you’ve got to do is walk with Me! Don’t try to follow My laws. My laws

just show you when you’re in or out of bounds.” It’s like a chalk line on a football field. It can’t keep you in! It just shows you when you’re out. The power is in the sanctification of the Spirit—so walk by the Spirit—this is a daily walk with God.

Dave: Again, you’re referencing Galatians 5: “Walk by the Spirit, and you will not indulge the desires of the flesh.” [Galatians 5:16, paraphrased] I think a lot of us read that or hear that and think the opposite. It’s like, “If I can stop the indulgence of the flesh, then I can walk with God.”

John: Yes, wow.

Dave: It’s like we try to stop what we don’t want to do, and then we can walk with God. And it’s the opposite, right?

John: That’s the letter to the Galatians! That’s why Paul gave the strongest language that he wrote in the New Testament, of all of his letters, to the Galatians. It

was because of this: they trusted in Jesus for salvation, and then they said, “But we’re

not going to trust Him for our sanctification.”

Dave: Right.

John: “We’ll trust Him for forgiveness of sins and freedom from hell. But now, we’re

going to follow all the rules of the Old Testament, because they’re good, right, and

holy so we’re going to follow them.”

He says, “Who has bewitched you, you foolish Galatians?” [Galatians 3:1, paraphrased] He goes strong, and it was because they’d become rule-followers—what you just said—thinking, “Alright, we’ll stop doing what we don’t want to do so that we can be right with God.”

He’s saying, “If anyone, let them be eternally accursed if they share a gospel other than this!” [Galatians 1:8, paraphrased]

Ann: — [a gospel] of works.

Dave: Talk about a strong word! And I also think, and I don’t know if I’m right, I think a

lot of people have tried that form of Christianity.

John: Oh, we’re all Galatians!

Ann: Oh, absolutely!

John: We’re all Galatians in our hearts.

Dave: And it doesn’t work, so they walk away.

John: Yes.

Dave: [They think], “I tried it. Dude, that Christianity thing didn’t work for me.”

John: Yes.

Dave: “I know good people can do that. I couldn’t do it, so I’m out!” And they never

understood: “No, no, no! It’s surrender to the Spirit of God; He’ll give you power.”

Here’s another thing—tell me if I’m right about this; it doesn’t say: “When you walk by the Spirit, you won’t have desire…” It says, “You won’t indulge that desire.”

John: Yes, yes.

Dave: So, when you see the Jack Daniels billboard it isn’t like, “Oh, I have no desire.”  It’s like, “Oh, no. The desire’s there, but I have a power now to not do it.”

How did you get through that day?

John: Martin Luther said, “You can’t stop the birds from flying over your head, but you can keep them from building a nest.” They’re going to fly; the temptation is going to come.

Dave: Yes.

John: But you don’t invite that in and build a home for it. I think that temptation is always going to exist. I think, in the church, we have stopped talking about sin. Or we’ll talk about it in a theological sense, but not in like, “Hey, this is what you’re dealing with sins.”

We stop talking about sin once we come to Jesus. That’s crazy! So, you’ve got a bunch of people sitting in the rows and pews, suffering in silence—

Ann: —yes.

John: —with their sin, because, “Once you trust in Jesus, you’re not supposed to

struggle anymore.” People do [struggle]! The reality is: no, I have wept with God when—I’m speaking hypothetically, like someone’s wife catches them in pornography;

they’re pleading with God to take it away. God’s all-knowing, all-powerful, ever-present,

and yet, He hasn’t; He doesn’t.

What do you do with that? If you’re saying, “Dear wife, sorry. I asked God to take it away, but He hasn’t.” She’s thinking, “You keep going back to this! Do you not love me?” And the struggle remains.

We have to talk about sin, and we have to talk about repentance. I think the church has

forgotten how to repent! It’s clear in the Scriptures. Five hundred years ago, you had Luther nailing his 95 Theses, and the first four were all about repentance, which screams: “This is of utmost importance!”

Then you’ve got John Owen, who was telling the church: “You have to mortify sin. Make it your daily work. Cease not a day from it. Be killing sin, or it will be killing

you.” There’s no alternative; there’s no neutral: “You kill sin, or it kills you.”

Then you’ve got Jonathan Edwards, who led the Great Awakening in America. He wrote these 70 resolutions: “Seventy things I will and will not do,”—and he read them every week as a reminder: “I’m going to drift. I’ve got to have this anchor, this mooring, of my soul for the desires, the temptations, the lingering lovers that come back around.”

I was in a hotel room last night by myself before this. Porn’s not really my thing, it was much more alcoholism; but it was a thing. I was away from my wife. I didn’t even turn on the TV. It was Romans 13:14: “Clothe yourselves in the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh.”

Ann: John, what does that look like in the church if we did talk about sin more and

repentance more? Because you’re saying this is something that’s so important. I feel like this, too. People are—we are—sitting in our pews in shame.

John: Except we’re wearing our Sunday best.

Ann: Yes.

John: When actually we should be exposing our Sunday worst.

Ann: Right.

John: It’s like, “What are you doing!?” We’re like playing church—

Ann: —yes.

John: —“This is crazy! We just fought in the parking lot,” and “You’re nagging, and

you’re addicted to porn. Our kids are rebellious; but we’re going to put on nice clothes and smile and worship, even though we don’t believe He’s actually going to move.”

That’s crazy! We’ve got to turn from that!

Every time I preach, I’ll say, “I’m a recovering alcoholic.” I always will, until I die. Because that’s what Jesus saved me from. Everyone has a sin, not everyone has a

Savior; so, we’ve got to talk about sin. And we’ve not given the people the path back to

freedom.

Look, this is not some Christian-ese life hack that I pulled in from AA. [Laughter] This is back to the Scriptures; back to what the reformers were preaching that led to an awakening in the church and a revival. So, I say that repentance is the root of revival. We all want it; we all want revival. But God is saying, “Are we going to do some heart work?” He does it by the Spirit. I’s not by our willpower.

Ann: And I’m guessing, in Recovery, you guys are talking about that. You’re showing off your scars and your pain, because Jesus is the One who has healed you, even though you still have scars.

The thing that we always say at our church is, when we’re in a group and Recovery people are there, we always say, “Oh, great! We’re so excited they’re here.” They’re the most real, authentic people, [who] will go to the very core of issues. They are just real!

John: Yes.

Dave: You talk about, “Okay, we’ve got to be honest in a church and in a small

group,” like you are at Recovery. How do we do that? How do we talk about the struggle, and the sin, and the addictions that we’re struggling with in a way

that is redemptive?

John: Yes.

Dave: Because you can live there, and just sort of sit in the darkness, and everybody says, “Yes, me, too!” and stay in darkness; or you can talk about it honestly, but

then be walking somewhere out.

John: Yes; and I think a lot of times, too, when we share testimonies, people glorify sin. We tell these horror stories that make everybody kind of wide-eyed and gasp. It’s like, “Hey, sin’s not the hero.”

Dave: Right.

John: “Jesus is.” We make sure, when we tell our testimonies, it’s 1/3 life before Christ, 1/3 what Jesus did, and 1/3 what life is like after Christ, because we want to give people the picture of the before and after, and the during, the in-between.

Dave: Yes.

John: You don’t just trust in Jesus, and everything is magically good. There’s progressive sanctification. I think it starts with leadership. [It starts with] leadership in the home; it starts with leadership in the church; it starts with leadership on staff teams. It has to. I say, “Leaders go first, or others may never,” so we have to.

You see Paul doing this; you see it throughout the Scriptures. I mean, the Lord, who penned the Scriptures through those 40 authors, made sure to write about the failures of every leader in the book. Why? Because He knows that that’s the commonality. All eight billion people walking this earth have problems. We all have sin, but we don’t know the way out; so, leaders have to go first.

I think what that looks like is a real, honest confession with our families and from the

stage, if you’re a pastor. Here’s what I do when I lead the meeting every Monday

night—“meeting” sounds crazy; it’s like a full-blown church service. But I’ll say, “Hey, my name’s John.” I say, “I have a new life in Christ. I’m recovering from alcoholism, fear of man, and this past week…” “…this past week, what mine was, was careless words, both with my children and in ministry; and that’s not okay.”

But we always say, “I have a new life in Christ,” because in an AA meeting, you would say, “Hey, I’m John, and I’m an alcoholic.” Well, I’m not an alcoholic. I have a new life in Christ

Ann: It’s not your identity.

John: Totally!

Ann: Yes.

John: I tell people a lot: “We’re not sinners who saint; we are saints who sin.” When you look at the Scriptures—I mean, Paul writes to the Corinthians—dude, they were a rowdy bunch. [Laughter] Yet he calls them saints—hagios, holy ones, set apart, holy unto God. Well, it sure didn’t seem like it, but he’s reminding them: “What you do is not who you are or Whose you are. Your identity is in Jesus! And as you fix your foundation on your identity, your belief determines your behavior.”

If we walk around, calling ourselves sinners all the time, I don’t think that’s going to—one, I don’t think it reflects Scripture; and two, I think we’re going to start embodying that identity.

Then, also, I say, “And this week…” and I always say what I’m struggling with

this week. We have a time of reflection— “…I was being harsh with my children.” Lust or pride or passivity or careless words. That keeps me really close to my own brokenness, which keeps me really close to my Savior, which keeps me really close to being able to share with others from an authentic place. “I can be known here. I can share where I actually am. I don’t have to fake it. Because if he just shared that from the stage, and he’s not getting walked off or fired, then maybe it’s safe for me to share my sin, too.”

Then, you don’t just share it. You give them a path for repentance, and He does!

He either sets people free or He doesn’t, and it would make Him a liar if He didn’t. He does, and He does it in powerful ways, and we’ve just forgotten how to repent.

Ann: As you shared some of that sentence when you were talking about, “Your husband’s been struggling with porn, and then he gets better, and then he falls,”—I’ve talked to hundreds, probably, of couples that have struggled with this—

John: —yes.

Ann: —and wives who are giving up, thinking, “This is just who he is.”

John: Right.

Ann: And “I don’t have any hope that he will get better.”

John: Yes, yes.

Ann: Maybe it’s alcohol, or maybe it’s some other addiction. Encourage the

spouse: what does that look like? What’s the best way for us to respond?

John: One, before I forget, it has very much become a female problem, too,—

Ann: —yes.

John: —with pornography. For any of those listeners that are women, I want you to

know that you’re not the only one. That’s what Satan wants you to think, but you are

not.

Ann: I think women are less prone to share because they feel like, “There’s something

wrong with me if this is my issue.”

John: Yes, it’s become a guy’s struggle; and it’s just not the case.

Ann: Yes.

John: “No temptation has seized you except what is common to mankind.” It’s like,

“This is for everyone.”

So, what I would encourage anyone listening [with] is James 5:16; it’s another command with a promise. He says, “Confess your sins to one another, and pray for each other, so that you may be healed.” There’s this three-fold thing: we do our part, which is to confess. Then they do their part, which is to pray. Then God does His part, which is to heal. That’s an amazing equation.

But I think a lot of times, especially in recovery circles, we’ll just confess saying, “Oh, you know, this week I was short with my wife,” or “I yelled at my kids,” or “I looked at

porn.”  “Thanks for sharing.” That’s a phrase.

It’s like, “No! That’s a terrible response; not, ‘Thanks for sharing.’” It’s one of two things according to Scripture—this is James, not me: it’s you either then, reciprocally, confess your sin; or you pray for them, and then you confess your sin—because it says, “Confess your sins to one another, and pray for each other.”

It’s this reciprocal thing. We’re doing it [confessing] together to each other, then praying

for each other—not condemning each other, not shaming each other, not shunning each other. It doesn’t even say, “Respond with biblical counsel,” though I believe that happens at a time. It says your immediate response is to either confess or to pray. Then it says, “God heals.” That’s so amazing that we can take Him at His promise, but the way that we take Him at His promise is by doing that very thing. It’s taking that orthodoxy and making it into orthopraxy.

So, at our church, every community group gathering, we say: “How have you fed

your soul? How have you fed your flesh? And how are you feeding others?” It’s this

three-fold thing that’s like: “This is what I’m doing to feast on the Lord....Here’s where I

feasted on the flesh….”—as a confession. And “Here’s where I’m feeding others” for discipleship.

And then there’s prayer over that person. Nobody gets out of the room! Because what

happened was, there was a problem person in the room: “Ah, that’s Bob! He struggles

with porn. We’ll just work on him!” It’s like, “Well, as far as I can tell, 1 John 1:8 says, ‘If

we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.’” So now, nobody’s getting out of the room without confessing.

That’s confession. You’ve just got to bring it into the light. Things die when they’re in the light.

Ann: So, a spouse brings it to their spouse—

John: —yes.

Ann: —to the other spouse.

John: Yes, which would be, if a husband—

Ann: —yes, or a wife—

John: —or wife confesses to porn or whatever, I think they pray for each other. I think

that spouse also—you know what would be really amazing? For them [other spouse]

to confess their sin, too: “You know what? I’ve been really controlling.

Ann: Oh, man!

John: “I have struggled….”

Ann: Now, it gets like, “Oh, yeah! This is hard.”

John: Yes.

Ann: Because Dave and I went through this. He came to me in our early years of

Marriage and said, “I’m really struggling with this.” And I exploded! “Are you kidding?!” And then, he would lie about it, and then I would get even more mad. So, one thing—he would confess, which I made him feel so bad, so guilty. I was so wrong in my response.

Dave: We didn’t have John to coach us, you know?

Ann: I know. We needed his book. We needed to go to his program. I look at that, and I think, “Oh, now, I’m confessing my own sin.” That’s big! It’s so important.

Dave: Yes, and I would just end it here to say: one of the things I’ve discovered, and I

know, John, you know this—I think you see it every Monday night, if not even more—is

the second you confess, the second you bring something that’s hidden in the dark into

the light—tell me if I’m right or wrong—the grip of that sin, that struggle, gets a little less.

I’m not saying it’s over just by speaking it out, but once it’s actually said out loud to a

friend, or maybe even a stranger, but somebody that you can trust, the second you speak it, you’re starting, whether you know it or not, a road to healing. You may not get there, because you have to stay on that road, but if you’re not willing to ever speak it, guess what? I’ve said a thousand times from the pulpit: “If it’s in secret, secret wins.”

John: Yes.

Dave: “If it’s in the dark, the darkness will win.” The second it’s in the light, you’re

starting your road to recovery. Here’s what I would just say: there’s someone listening that you need to tell somebody today. Today’s your day.

John: Yes.

Dave: You need to tell your spouse, a trusted friend, or somebody. Right now, you’re turning off the podcast, you’re turning off the radio. You’re thinking, “I don’t want to hear this!” But this is the moment that you tell somebody. You take a step to a new life.

John: I’d say there’s no healing apart from that, scripturally.

Dave: Yes.

Ann: Dave, I would say, for the spouse—that was really big, what you said, John—that you’re now confessing your own sin. I was so prideful because I thought, “This is your problem! I am fine.” But what resulted was [that] I had arrogance, pride, fear. I had my own issues. If I could have confessed that, and given Dave grace, and we prayed about it together, that could have really changed things more quickly. I think we would have had recovery much sooner.

Dave: And I’m hoping there are some conversations beginning to happen right now.

Ann: Me too.

John: Lord, let it be.

Ann: Yes.

Shelby: Addictions have many faces in life. Sometimes they’re obvious addictions that we see in things like alcohol or porn. Sometimes, even as Ann mentioned just a second ago, there are addictions to things like our own pride or arrogance and self-righteousness. In all that, are we willing to admit our addictions and take them to the cross where they belong knowing that Jesus has taken care of 100 percent of them?

I’m Shelby Abbott, and you’ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with John Elmore on FamilyLife Today. John has been talking with the Wilsons today about addictions. He’s written a book called Freedom Starts Today: Overcoming Struggles and Addictions One Day at a Time. Often the power to do that rests in that little, tiny fact: deal with them one day at a time.

This book is a memoir in many ways of a powerful message of hope and transformation that those struggles and addictions had on John Elmore; but also his personal journey that acts as an opportunity for him to disciple you through his written word and help you overcome your struggles and addictions as well.

This book is going to be our gift to you when you partner with us today at FamilyLife. You can get your copy right now with any donation by going online to FamilyLifeToday.com and clicking on the “Donate Now” button at the top of the page.   Or you can give us a call at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY.”

Or drop us a donation in the mail. Here’s our address: FamilyLife, 100 Lake Hart Drive, Orlando, Florida 32832. Just make sure you let us know that you want a copy of John Elmore’s book, Freedom Starts Today.

Now, tomorrow, do you ever feel like you mess up all the time? Well, you’re not alone. Pastor John Elmore is back again with the Wilsons to help us understand why the struggle exists, and John is going to talk about the power to overcome each and every day. That’s coming up tomorrow. We hope you’ll join us.

On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I’m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife^®, a Cru^® Ministry.

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