Anxiety: It’s Not Who I Am: Life in Gen Z

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Season 1, Episode 40: Anxiety: It's Not Who I Am: Life in Gen Z

Guests: Rechab Gray, Chloe Whiteford, Dorothea Guillaume, Melody Uri
Air Date: June 10, 2023

Melody: I feel like I actually started having anxiety probably around the height of the pandemic, 2020. I feel like something physically happened to me like three times, because I've gotten to Covid like three times. I physically feel like I have felt different, and I feel like something happened to my nervous system - where I'll be just doing normal things and all of a sudden I'll have this crippling anxiety. I'm like, everything's caving in around me. My fingers are going numb. Why? And I was just never that person. So, I was kind of like wrestling with myself - like is there something wrong with me? Like, God, why isn't this going away?

Shelby: Somewhat anxious, always authentic. This is Real Life Loading.

I'm your host, Shelby Abbott, and if you heard the episode we dropped last time, you know that I've got a handful of people here with me this week too. I'll let them all introduce themselves to you again.

Dorothea: Hi, I'm Dorothea.

Chloe: I'm Chloe.

Rechab: Yes, I’m Rechab Gray.

Melody: Hey, I'm Melody.

Shelby: I'm excited because our desire with this podcast is to help guide you as the next generation toward the life-changing power of Jesus for relationships in a constantly shifting culture. And today with the group, we're going to be talking about mental health, anxiety, favorite things and weird obsessions. This is part two with everyone at the round table digging into the topics that matter most.

I downloaded this app on my phone. It's called Spin the Wheel. I wanted to do this with you guys, so I have on you, you can make categories on it. So, I have categories: favorite show, favorite movie, favorite book, favorite smell, favorite memory, favorite hobby, favorite app, favorite food. So, I'm going to go around and Spin the Wheel for each of you. [Laughter] Wherever it lands, I want you to tell me what it is and if you're like, nah, I'd rather tell you my favorite app, feel free to interject. Okay?

Okay, Chloe, I'm going to spin the wheel on you. I turned off the sound because it's got some cheesy sounds on it and we're landing on - favorite book. Do you have a favorite book? That's not the Bible.

Chloe: I have too many. I mean, yes, Bible would be.

Shelby: You're an avid reader?

Chloe: I am an avid audiobook listener. Because I have no time in my life to read books. Right. Okay, this is hard. I think I need time to mentally and emotionally prepare for this. I would say my favorite book ever is called A Time to Die by, I'm going to say her name wrong, I think it's Nadine Brandes.

Shelby: Okay. Is it a novel?

Chloe: It is a novel. It's kind of like a fantasy, but it's talking about how God numbers all of our days. It starts with this concept of like everyone has a clock that's counting down on when they die.

Shelby: Mm-hmm. Yes. That's terrifying.

Chloe: And then she was born - she was born a triplet and they only had two clocks in their house, so she and her twin have been like trading their clock back and forth. Because you can get clocked on the street because it's like illegal to not have one. And so, it's like this whole historian journey she takes. Really, it's really crazy. Yes. It's a really good book. It's a trilogy.

Shelby: Okay, that's really cool. Never heard of that before.

All right Dorothea, we're going to spin the wheel on you. I'm legitimately doing this, so you could see that I'm actually - I’m not like cheating here. Oh, this is one of my favorite icebreaker questions. Favorite smell? Ooh, do you have a favorite smell?

Dorothea: Yes.

Shelby: Okay. Please tell me.

Dorothea: I love lavender. Ooh, lavender. It's very calming. I don't know - it’s just something that my grandmother would have around. But I love it. I like to spray it on my sheets and my pillowcase.

Shelby: And oh, so you're all in – okay.
Dorothea: Okay. I'm all in. And even like, Bath and Body works - they have this spray. Oh, I love lavender. It's so soothing. Yes. It's calming.

Shelby: That's good. Do you have a favorite smell, Chloe?

Chloe: Oh, goodness. I think like my mom's perfume growing up. That like, every time I smell it, I'm like, oh mom, that comfort smell. That's probably my favorite smell.

Shelby: All right. Amazing. How about book for you? Do you have a favorite book? Then? I asked her that.

Dorothea: So, um, my favorite book? Hmm. Okay. I would say right now one of my favorite books that I'm reading right now is really interesting is called, I Don't Want to Talk About It: Overcoming [the Secret Legacy of] Male Depression. It's really interesting how I got that book as a recommendation.

Shelby: Very interesting.

Dorothea: Yes. Um, but, yes, I like it. I like to see the insight of like the thoughts of men and yes-

Shelby: -It gives you a totally different perspective.

Dorothea: -totally different perspective, especially those that are dwelling in depression and can't seem to find a way-out, or know how to express themselves. So that's a book that I am into right now.

Shelby: Yes. I think it's healthy to read books that are not quote unquote for you. It's always. Gives you a good perspective, especially like if there's a Christian perspective on stuff. That's beautiful. Love it.

Alright, Rechab, here we go - spin the wheel on you.

Rechab: Yes. That's funny. While you're spinning the wheel. Some of my favorite books are like books I haven't actually read. But I've read them through conversation with my wife. [Laughter] That's good. So, Francine Rivers is like her favorite author. She has this trilogy called, A Voice in the Wind. It's like historical fiction and all of that, but the main character - her name is Hadassa. And so, we named our daughter Hadassa.

Shelby: Did you really? Wow.

Rechab: Both after that and also after Queen Estes, so yes. Hebrew name.

Shelby: So yes. That's awesome.

Chloe: Yes, man, I have read that series and it's like, so good.

Rechab: It’s ridiculous - Yo! and like I know the whole thing.

Shelby: You never read. You've never read it.

Rechab: I've never read it, but like, yo, I know the whole thing. And it is absolutely amazing. She is an incredible author.

Shelby: I was hoping you weren't going to say like, books I haven't read. It was like, yes - like the Bible. You know, like people told me about it. I think it's pretty good. I'm like, you're pastor bro, it's time to read the whole thing front to back.

All right. This landed on show, favorite show.

Rechab: Um, dang. That's tough. Uh-

Shelby: You watched the Jordan documentary, right?

Rechab: That was amazing, phenomenal.

Shelby: Yes. That's really good. That's kind of a show, but like a mini-series.

Rechab: Like documentary - a docuseries, I guess. I guess that fits. But right now, honestly, it's The Chosen. So good The Chosen is, it's real good. It's like that, yo. Yes, it is just incredible and I think the storytelling has just done really, really well. The writing is incredible, the way they shoot it is amazing. Yes, The Chosen, yes, that's number one for me right now.

Shelby: Nice, that's awesome.

Okay. Melody, you're up - favorite app, that's what it landed on.

Melody: Favorite app. I think the Christian response should be the Bible app, but the Bible app I really love. Correct. That's right. The Bible app. But I feel like I spend unfortunately more time as an app, because I like to spend time more in like a physical Bible anyways - probably Instagram.

Shelby: Okay. Mm-hmm.

Melody: But I feel like slowly that's just, just scrolling away. I'm like, sometimes I'm scrolling and I'm like, why am I even here? [Laughter]

Yes. I don't know. Sometimes I get exhausted, and I actually decided yesterday, let's take a break, I really needed that.
Shelby: All right, so this is open for all of you guys. What weird, random, or maybe out of the ordinary thing do you obsess about?

Everybody's got that thing that they kind of obsess about or they talk about a lot. I'm just going to open it to anyone, whoever wants to be bold enough. Dorothea, you're smiling a lot, so you've got like two or three things in your head maybe?

Dorothea: Maybe. I think this is so funny. I do obsess over finding new vegan snacks or plant-based stuff. [Laughter] I'm always trying something new and I'm like, “Hey, do you want to try this?” And my friends are like, “No, I don't.” I'm like, “Please just try it with me. You'll love it.”

Shelby: And have you found anything that you're like, oh my gosh, this is the thing?

Dorothea: Wait, so there's this one brand called Hippeas. The vegan white cheddar puffs taste like amazing to me. I'm like, yes - something that seems similar to like the Cheeto puffs.

Shelby: Right, yes.

Dorothea: I do like Cheeto puffs, but I can no longer partake in consuming dairy products. I'm actually lactose intolerant. This time it's to a point where like, if I intake it now I sound heavily congested.

Shelby: Yes, it's going to really mess you up.

Dorothea: Yes. It's, it's just a whole bunch of stuff and like, just things my body is like now, like fighting off. So, I am very much oat milk and if anything, just water. But yes, I love looking for snacks or like new things. I've tried a lot of plant-based things.

Shelby: So, what's a vegan Cheddar Puff actually made of then?

Dorothea: Oh, it's chickpeas.

Shelby: Chickpeas. Okay. So they - it's just, that's their bread and butter. Yes, it's chickpeas. Sorry, I probably shouldn’t [have] said bread and butter. That's like the opposite. Still no butter then - then substitute butter and the gluten-free bread. But chickpeas is their thing. They really utilize chickpeas in the vegan world, don't they?

Dorothea: Yes. It's like I have it in the car. I wish I had brought it, but I have like the nacho flavor in the car.

Shelby: Yes. Do you pop'em like candy then?

Dorothea: I could but I don't. I have to like literally, self-control. Okay. Pretty much.

Shelby: That's good. That's really good self-control. All right. Any other things? What are you obsessed about?

Chloe: I have this weird obsession with the Manhattan Project and atomic like history in the Cold War. And I cannot learn enough about it.

Shelby: Really? Isn't there a movie coming out about scene? Yes, it is.

Dorothea: And I'm like, Christopher Nolan movie so excited.

Chloe: Dying. Yes. Yes. I'm

Shelby: I don't know anything about it. Give me like a thirty second rundown of I literally know nothing about it. Yes, like the Manhattan Project, like what would you say if you saw someone in an elevator and you had thirty seconds to talk to them about the
Manhattan Project?

Chloe: I would say it's a time in human history when people who were overlooked, like scientists, like oh, you know, they were kind of not acknowledged as people of great position of power. All had to come together, join forces, and save the world. And it's an incredible story.

Shelby: No big deal to save the world.

Chloe: And so, they were never in the public spotlight. But they knew that if they wanted to save the world, they needed to completely use their brains and they did. So, yes. Incredible. It's really cool.

Shelby: I know nothing about it, nothing at all. Oppenheimer, I think is the, the name of the movie coming out. All right, your turn you guys.

Rechab: I don't know, like mine is, is kind of cheating, but it is an actual like obsession. Uh, but the Greek language right now.

Shelby: Yes. You go deep into that kind of stuff. Yes. You're like, I gotta know everything about this. [Laughter]

Rechab: Yes. So, yes. So right now just, uh, yes, ancient Greek - anything I can get my hands on right now, it's just, uh--

Shelby: --You're so cool. So cool.

Rechab: It's really not cool. Ancient things it’s like the opposite. But uh, yes, it's an obsession right now.

Shelby: Books, videos, you're doing all of it.

Rechab: All of it. All of it. All of it. Yes, I'm finally going to be teaching a course, a Master’s course, in it. Which is like nerve wracking, so, yes. But the obsession only grows.

Shelby: Now you get, now you're being like reinforced to do it. [Laughter]

Rechab: Yes. Yes. Right, right.

Shelby: How, how long's the class?

Rechab: Yes, it's, so I'll be teaching Greek one and two. So, it'll be basically a full year of teaching Greek. Wow.

Shelby: Wow. Through what?

Rechab: It's through a school called Meachum School of Haymanot. It's a really a dope school for African originated people. And just an amazing leader, Dr. Vince Bantu wrote some incredible books. So yes. Be teaching it them for them.

Shelby: Yes, it's amazing. Wow, that's awesome. Greek - I wish I were as amazing as you were. But alright Melody, what are you obsessed about?

Melody: Well, to be honest, we already mentioned it, but I seriously am obsessed with The Chosen. With The Chosen.

Shelby: You are. Okay.

Melody: Yes, I really am. It's really changed the game. I feel like for the industry and I think it's making Christian media look like, it's like even more, I don't know, appealing. I guess to even, you know, the secular world. I mean it's gotten some awards already and everything. But in reality, it's gotten me so much closer to Jesus. Because it's not like we need an image or anything. It really does remind you like He was real. He had feelings, He had emotions, He had real conversations with people. He wasn't just doing all the miracles like He was living. Like day by day with His disciples, and it just has changed like my relationship with the Lord. So, it's a game changer for sure. Yes, I love it.

Shelby: I love it too. It gives that human side of Christ that He was a hundred percent human and a hundred percent God at the same time. It's very difficult to wrap our minds around that. This is giving us a little window into what that might have looked like. And they, you know, they take creative liberties and that kind of stuff. There's stuff that's not in the Bible that they put in there, but they've done a ton of research to try to make sure that it's at least historically accurate and I appreciate that about that.

Shelby: Yes. And now it's time for Three Dots, Three Thoughts on Real Life Loading. Now this is where I share three simple ideas that could potentially change your life or at least slightly improve it.

Thought one: Always carry a few of those, like little flossers with you. They're super helpful if you're out and can't get back home to get that little, tiny bit of chicken you had for lunch out of your teeth. They're quick and easy to use. Just don't throw it on the ground in the Walmart parking lot after you use it. Which by the way, why are there always tooth flossers on the ground everywhere in public spaces? Littering is bad.

Thought two: Buy a house plant of some kind. Now it doesn't have to be huge or anything like that. It could even be like a little succulent, something tiny. Having a plant in your place, even if you live in like a small apartment or a dorm room. It's something that makes you feel like an adult because you're responsible for keeping it alive. It's kind of like the first stage of real adulting.

Thought three: Always be reading the Gospels - Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Tell the life story of our Savior, Jesus Christ. And regardless of what your Bible reading plan looks like, we should always be pouring over the life of Christ with deep interest. He's the one who all of life is really about. So, let's always study who He was, what He did, and what He said when He was here on earth. Stay in the Gospels as you read through the Bible, and remember, you're not reading about someone who once lived and is now dead. You're reading about someone who once lived, then died, then came back to life from the dead. He's alive right now. So, keep that perspective as you continually dive into the Gospels of either Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John.

This has been Three Dots, Three Thoughts on Real Life Loading. Now back to my time with Dorothea, Melody, Chloe, and Rechab for the Gen Z Round Table.

Okay guys, I want to talk about something that we can all face at times anxiety. Anxiety is something that I've struggled with most of my life, and I feel like it's so much more prevalent in the culture today amongst young people.

So how has anxiety maybe played a factor in your life personally? And what are some things that you've done to help get better when it comes to wrestling with anxiety? Has there been anything that you found helpful in your struggles with this?

Chloe: I can take this. My whole life have had like severe medical anxiety. I got diagnosed when I was 12, but it's been a thing, like I was that nine-year-old who like would have an anxiety attack in the middle of the night and like run into my parents' bedroom and be like, mom, I'm having a heart attack take me to the ER.

Shelby: Oh my gosh.

Chloe: That happened a few times. It was really bad. And then I think I was probably like seventeen or something, so like two years ago. And I was like crying out to God, like, God, why is this so bad? Because I saw my dentist appointment on the calendar.
And I like started getting super anxious.

I was like, why is this such an issue? I would hyperventilate before going in for a cleaning at the dentist. It was bad. And then, He convicted me so much. He was like, do you want it to go away? I was like, well, yes, obviously. And then I was like thinking about that and dwelling on that.

It had become so much of a part of my personality and how I saw myself - that in a way I was like clinging to it as a part of my identity.

Shelby: Clinging to the anxiety?

Chloe: Yes, because you know, it's like you have your identity and that's like, this is who I am, you know, I'm not going to change whatever. And so, I was like, oh gosh, no, I don't want it to go away. I'm like clinging to it as much as I'm begging God to take it away.

Roundtable: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Chloe: And then like my whole perspective about it changed - and then I was like, for a while, like all I could pray was, “God change my identity and myself so that I want it to go away.”

Roundtable: Wow.

Chloe: And then, yes, like now, I mean it's definitely still there. Someone can't puke without me like freaking out internally. But I just went into the dentist two weeks ago and like there was no anxiety.

Shelby: Yes. Like that's good.

Chloe: I didn't even think about it until I was like sitting in the dentist chair and I was like, wait, I have not had any anxiety about this. So, God is so good. But it was totally me. Yes. Like it wasn't him at all. It was me clinging to the anxiety. Because it was a part of who I was.

Shelby: It reminds me of like, do you want to be healed? When Jesus asked him, do you want to be healed? The obvious answer is yes, of course. But like, that's a good question to ask. Do you actually want to be rid of this? That's so good. Yes, I'm so glad that you saw that in yourself and went toward, well “me” as opposed to the “it” getting rid of it. That's, Huge.

Chloe: Oh, it took years and years and years. It would've been gone I think, so much sooner. But yes, it was definitely something--

Shelby: It's beautiful.

Chloe: --God really, really brought me through, because it was horrible.

Shelby: Yes. How about you guys?

Melody: For me, I feel like I actually started having anxiety probably around the height of the pandemic 2020. And I feel like something physically happened to me, because I’ve gotten to Covid like three times. But I physically feel like I have felt different, and I feel like something happened to my nervous system, where like I'll be just doing normal things and all of a sudden, like I'll have this crippling anxiety and I'm like everything's caving in around me. I can't, my fingers are going numb. Why?

And I was just never that person. So, I think it was just like a kind of wake-up call. Like, whoa, like am I being spiritually attacked? Like, do I just have to pray this away? It was really confusing.

And like in the Latin churches, like you just pray things away. They don't believe in therapy. They don't like, not everyone, but at least in a lot of the, you know, experiences that I've had. And so, I was kind of like wrestling with myself, like, is there something wrong with me? Like, God, like why isn't this going away? And so, I still kind of like wrestle with it. It's not crippling anymore. But I have realized like this is just another area to trust God with.

And kind of like you were saying, like with identity, like are you, are you going to choose to identify with it all the time? But I kind of feel grateful that I've gone through this experience because it's just made me realize how more human I am, you know? And I feel like I can just, honestly just relate to a lot of this generation, because I grew up not having to experience that. And I was a Christian kid at school, and I would just be like, you're going to get better. And there's kids with anxiety growing up, but I'd never related to them. And so, I feel like this was an opportunity that like even God allowed for me to understand. Well, Jesus had to come here to relate to us.

So, I feel like sometimes God will bring us through even that anxiety, depression, so we can just like even understand His love, even in a greater way - His mercy - and love people more - like to understand people go through things that maybe you can't relate to, but maybe one day you will. And so, I'm not saying I'm grateful for anxiety, but I feel like it's brought me to a better understanding of the human experience, honestly.

Shelby: That's really cool.

How about you guys?

Dorothea: I actually totally agree with you. I would say growing up I never understood when people talked about anxiety or depression. I'm like, everything's all right. You know, God is good. Like I was one of those type of Christians were molding me into that type of thing until I experienced a, a car accident in 2020.

And when that happened, it was obviously in the highlight of the pandemic and things of that nature. There was so much that was already happening to me in the beginning of the year, that this car accident even made it worse in my eyes.

Shelby: Yes, sure.

Dorothea: And I was like, this is just totally great. I already got let go of my job. Well, beginning of that year I had a job offering in Chicago. I was going to become a manager and then it got pulled away. Then the next thing at my current job, I was working there and for some reason I already had a notion of things are going to get even worse but prepare. Then I lost my job. Then I started working by like selling food and selling things, and I was seeing money come in, like it was great. I was like, thank you, God.

Then my mom's like, we're moving. I'm like, wait a minute what’s happening?

Shelby: What just started?

Dorothea: Yes. Just start starting. Okay, we move into the house. Literally the first [day], it was Labor Day. I'm leaving out of the house to go to Walmart to come and prepare for Labor Day. I got into a car accident, and then I'm like, what? Like what's all happening here? But I experienced depression, like I've never experienced it before, and I never could understand it.

And so, then I'm like, thinking and looking back at all the people that I knew that stated it to me. And I'm like, this is what this means. I was at a place that was really dark. I couldn't move, I couldn't do things - it's not my usual self.

I get up, I do a lot of things in the kitchen. I'm very active, proactive. I'm doing a lot of stuff and where I'm sitting there at home and I'm having to rely on people, and I'm just like, “Oh, this is just so dark for me.” At a season where I honestly questioned God and I was like, “I don't like this and I'm quite frankly, mad.” Of how I feel physically, spiritually, emotionally. And I'm just like, I don't like it. I don't want to be here. And it just kept going and tumbling.
And it wasn't till like last year, I decided I'm going to go to therapy, because there was even more stuff that came about, like from 2020 to 21, and then just hearing the things that happened in 2022 for me, I was like, God, I see it. I hear it, and I'm going.

So, to that point, I was like, this is what I need to do. I need help in this area. I do feel anxiety. Some people look at me and they're like, why would you feel anxiety? Like, you're, you're always this. I'm like, yes. I cover it very well. There's a lot of things I cover, and I don't want to cover anymore. So, I was like, I need to seek help in this area.

It's been beautiful to like see how God has literally opened my eyes to the things that I was really like hiding behind. And I was just like, okay, I get it. I see it.

Shelby: Yes, that's good. Do you want to speak into this at all Rehab or no?

Rechab: Yes. I think what you said is so profound of the do I want to be well? Because I think often Jesus's response to us is those kinds of words - confusing, maybe a little off, and it's exactly what we need. And it's those words that shift us. It's not the clutter of what everybody else is saying oftentimes - like the normal thing to say - the right thing to say. I'm just going to speak from the heart, just like looking at it biblically. You think about the call of Peter, leave your fishing business-

Shelby: -your life Yes. Basically.

Rechab: And come and follow me and I'll make you a fisherman. Cute statement. Life- changing.

You think of Him at the pool like, yo, do you really want to be well? The lady at the well like, go find your husband. Jesus is in the business of getting His hands on stuff we got a death grip on. I think a lot of anxiety is an obsession with idols we have, and He is in the business of doing that.

And I think one of the things like, so for me, I'm similar, maybe not as much because of the church culture I was in, but I just, everybody just say I'm just the chillest person in the world. I think I've shared like before, like I was so quiet that like, you know, my mom would force me on Fridays to call Pizza Hut. So, I would talk to a stranger. [Laughter]

Shelby: So, I remember you said that. That's funny.

Rechab: I'm just, you know, it's just was always just the chillest and the groove, nothing mattered like ever. And so, the idea of anxiety just didn't make any sense to me. I struggled at different times with just sadness and then started realizing, oh, this is deeper than says like depression.

But yo, my daughter almost passed at the end of 2020 at nine years old. And that'll shift things. Having two kids with sickle cell shifts things. I knew something shifted because whenever I would get a call from my wife, my first thought is “Is everything okay?” It's not, “Hey babe.”

It's not, Hey sweetie, how you doing? It is always my thought goes to, oh they're starting to have a crisis; or, oh they're in the hospital; or oh I've had to take them in. And especially because I travel so much in different spheres. That thing has been climbing and climbing and climbing, because now I can't even be there in a quick drive to go find them if that is the case.

And so, I think, like everyone said, I think God has used it yes to connect in a way of empathy. Christ, Hebrews chapter four, like He's able to empathize with us in our weaknesses. But also, what it's done, it hasn't only created an intimacy, but it's created a dependency upon people.

Round Table: Mm-hmm.

Rechab: So even counseling, isn't it ironic in the most digital age, the thing that people realize they need the most is somebody to talk to?

Round Table: Mm-hmm. Yes.

Rechab: Because a phone, a tablet, these things will never be able to do it, to listen to you, to hear you, to process. And I think what people need most in these battles and anxiety is my over obsession. Depression is my over, it's a me thing. I. But what we're realizing is like in a me thing, I need you.

Round Table: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rechab: And it is, once again, God rigging us to remind us, I've created you for unity. This is the whole design. And then Jesus Christ comes on the scene and reestablishes that and restores it to a degree that we never could have even thought possible. For now, we are now one with Him and His Father.

But that need for others, that need for God - like either you will learn you need people, or you will have to learn you need people.

Shelby: Yes, yes, It's inevitable.

Rechab: But it is that lesson. Yes. It is going to come.

Shelby: Mm-hmm

Rechab: Prayerfully unlike myself, like I'm a anybody else independent - like to pride yourself on independency - that pride of independency that, especially in an American culture, is like, keep going. They don't say stop like, yo. Be like that. Man that pride will some way, uh, that lesson will get taught, and my prayers that especially for us of this generation like that we will begin to realize like, oh no, what I need more than anything is a recognition that I need others around me. So, yes.

Shelby: Yes, really, really good.

In this digital age, we need others to talk with. We need God first, and we also need people. Let's never forget that the Christian life is a communal life. I love my time at the table with these amazing young people, and I hope you enjoyed our conversation too, hope you found it helpful.

If this episode with the Gen Z Round Table was in fact helpful for you, I'd love for you to share today's podcast with a friend and wherever you get your podcast, it can really advance what we're doing with Real Life Loading. So go ahead and scroll down, rate and review us, and it's for sure easy to find us on our social channels. Just search for Real Life Loading or look for our link tree in the show notes.

I want to thank everyone who's on the Real Life Loading team. They make it happen. Josh, Kaytlynn, Jarret, and Chloe. I'm Shelby Abbott. I'll see you back next time on Real Life Loading.

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