FamilyLife Today® Podcast

Father’s House: What’s Keeping You? Rachel Faulkner-Brown and Karen McAdams

with Karen McAdams, Rachel Faulkner-Brown | June 13, 2023
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Is your relationship with God not what you thought it'd be? Podcasters Rachel Faulkner-Brown and Karen McAdams have ideas to help you find Father's House—and live your life from that well-loved space.

  • Show Notes

  • About the Host

  • About the Guest

  • Dave and Ann Wilson

    Dave and Ann Wilson are hosts of FamilyLife Today®, FamilyLife’s nationally-syndicated radio program. Dave and Ann have been married for more than 38 years and have spent the last 33 teaching and mentoring couples and parents across the country. They have been featured speakers at FamilyLife’s Weekend to Remember® marriage getaway since 1993 and have also hosted their own marriage conferences across the country. Cofounders of Kensington Church—a national, multicampus church that hosts more than 14,000 visitors every weekend—the Wilsons are the creative force behind DVD teaching series Rock Your Marriage and The Survival Guide To Parenting, as well as authors of the recently released book Vertical Marriage (Zondervan, 2019). Dave is a graduate of the International School of Theology, where he received a Master of Divinity degree. A Ball State University Hall of Fame quarterback, Dave served the Detroit Lions as chaplain for 33 years. Ann attended the University of Kentucky. She has been active alongside Dave in ministry as a speaker, writer, small-group leader, and mentor to countless wives of professional athletes. The Wilsons live in the Detroit area. They have three grown sons, CJ, Austin, and Cody, three daughters-in-law, and a growing number of grandchildren.

Is your relationship with God not what you thought it’d be? Podcasters Rachel Faulkner-Brown and Karen McAdams have ideas to help you find Father’s House.

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Father’s House: What’s Keeping You? Rachel Faulkner-Brown and Karen McAdams

With Karen McAdams, Rachel Faulkn...more
June 13, 2023
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Karen: “This resurrection life is not a timid, grave-tending life,” and that’s how most of us live. “It’s adventurously expectant, greeting God with a child-like, ‘What’s next, Papa?’” because we know You’re good, we know You’re faithful, we know You’re never going to leave us, and we know that, no matter what happens or comes our way, I’m not alone. You’re with me!

Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at or on the FamilyLife® app.


Ann: This is FamilyLife Today!

Dave: So, I’ve said this many times, and I’m going to say it again: I think the two most important beliefs a person can ever carry are what we believe about God—theology, belief about Theos (God)—and identity.

Ann: I agree!

Karen: Yes.

Dave: Belief about my ID; who I am, right?

Ann: Oh, yes.

Dave: I think every decision we make—literally! Little ones, big ones—every day is based on what we believe is true about our Father, God, and what we believe is true [about ourselves]. And that means bad decisions when it’s based on a false identity and a false theology, and good ones when we understand we are safe and loved.

Ann: I totally agree.

Karen: Yes.

Dave: So, we’re going to dive into that, because there’s nothing I like talking about more. I think we miss this!

Rachel: Yes.

Ann: Yes.

Dave: As a pastor, I think I missed it, even teaching it.

Rachel: Yes.

Dave: It’s clear in the Word, but we can blow it off. So, who do we have in the studio, Ann?

Ann: We have Karen McAdams and Rachel Faulkner Brown back with us in the studio. It’s so fun to have you. Welcome back.

Karen: Thank you.

Rachel: Oh, it’s a dream for us. I mean, this is, you know, our favorite thing to talk about or favorite thing to teach on. I mean, we could just talk for hours, because, as I was telling you earlier, Ann, I just said, “There’s just nothing that we love to talk about more than how much He loves us and how good He is,” you know?

Ann: Yes.

Rachel: And I think you were talking about identity and theology. I think most of us have had things happen in our past that just muddy the waters. You know, whether it’s religion, whether it’s wounds, or whether it’s trauma, most of us have had things that have caused us to believe lies about who Papa is, then who Father God is, and then who we are in light of that.

Ann: Right.

Rachel: And I think Father’s House is just a journey to help uncover who He really is, and also to uncover that little girl—for us, we’re teaching to women 90% of the time—

Ann: Yes.

Rachel: To help her discover who she was always meant to be.

Ann: Yes.

Rachel: You know, that’s why we have the little girl on the cover, because nine years old is when a little girl looks in the mirror and she sees the things that are wrong with her.

Ann: So, do you think, as a fifty-year-old, we often see that nine-year-old, and what we thought about ourselves?

Karen: Yes.

Ann: And when you’re referring to Father’s House, you’re talking about this eight-session study that you two have created.

Karen: Yes.

Ann: It’s a video study.

Karen: Yes.

Rachel: It’s plug and play, digital—all digital. You just download it and then watch the videos. You can do it alone, but ideally, you would do it in community.

Ann: Yes.

Karen: Yes, because healing takes place in community.

Rachel: It does! And just, you know, being able to share. What’s so unique about it, Ann, is that every week has what we would call an “activation” after each session. So, you’re watching the videos, and you’re getting this teaching—this biblical truth; you’re hearing stories, which are connecting the truth to your heart; and then, you get to have an encounter with a living God that most of us have never been taught to see. Encounter leads to revelation, which leads to intimacy. That is—intimacy is the “holy grail” of the Christian life.

Karen: That’s right.

Rachel: I mean, it’s like everybody wants it. Everybody wants to write a book on how to get it!

Karen: They just don’t know how to do it.

Rachel: They don’t know how to get it!

Karen: Yes.

Ann: Dave, do you think that’s true for men?

Dave: This isn’t a male or female thing, I don’t think.

Karen: No!

Rachel: It’s not.

Dave: But I think there are guys listening who often say, “Head knowledge is enough.”

Rachel: Yes.

Dave: “I don’t need to feel some encounter.”

Rachel: Yes, yes.

Dave: Again, I’m sort of exaggerating.

Rachel: No, I get it!

Ann: Yes.

Dave: For that guy that may be pushing back a little bit. Explain to him—and maybe her, because there are women that have the same thought: “Do I really need an encounter? What do you mean by ‘experience God’s love’?”

Karen: Well, can I—I just want to address something for a moment.

Dave: You’re going to correct me right now; go ahead.

Karen: No, no, no. I just think you say you don’t need feelings.

Dave: I’m talking for some other—

Karen: Men, just in general, sorry!

Dave: Some other guy! [Laughter]

Karen: To generalize to somebody else.

Dave: “a friend who”

Karen: Not you.

Dave: Yes.

Karen: But you know, we say that, and yet, you’re feeling things all the time. Our subconscious informs us must faster than we can logically think through something, right?

Dave: Right.

Karen: So, something happens to us, and we wonder, “Why in the world--?” We’ve all said this! “Why did I get so triggered by that?”

Dave: Yes.

Karen: Right? Because, subconsciously, we’re experiencing something that has its roots in our past. So, when we exclude this very human experience of feelings, and we say, “No, all I need to do is know it intellectually.”

Rachel: Yes.

Karen: We’re missing out on how He wired us!

Rachel: Yes.

Ann: Yes.

Dave: I agree!

Karen: He wired us for feeling!

Rachel: Yes.

Dave: Talk to the guy, or maybe a woman—

Ann: I love having women in here today! [Laughter]

Dave: This is great!

Karen: I mean, I will argue this point ‘til I’m blue in the face!

Dave: This is good.

Karen: Because it changed my life!

Rachel: Oh, yes.

Dave: Of course!

Karen: It changed my life when I felt the feeling of being loved, rather than just intellectually knew I was loved.

Rachel: Yes. I grew up being raised by Depression babies, and so, they were just pulling themselves up by their bootstraps: “Let’s just move on! Let’s not try to feel a feeling!”

Ann: Yes, “let’s just gut it out and put the feelings aside!”

Karen: Yes, let’s just not.

Rachel: “Let’s just gut it out!”

Ann: Yes.

Rachel: Like, “we just need to put food on the table.” And then, you taught another generation how to just do the same thing. “Let’s not talk about anything hard, because that kind of upsets the apple cart.” And my parents had no idea! I mean, they were just doing what they knew. So, I grew up super—you know, I did not have an emotional vocabulary. I couldn’t have told you what a feeling felt like for love nor money.

Ann: Which is amazing, too—

Rachel: Yes.

Ann: Because you get married at a young age and lose two husbands.

Rachel: Right!

Ann: We didn’t even say that at the beginning of this program.

Rachel: Yes, yes; but I have this high capacity for joy, and yet, don’t experience really any other emotion but joy. It’s like, “Let’s just be happy all the time in all this bad stuff!”

Karen: I’m not sure that would be such a bad thing. [Laughter]

Ann: I know, it sounds kind of good!

Karen: You agree, Ann?

Ann: Yes. [Laughter]

Rachel: Yes, but it created a very shallow spirituality. You cannot be a healthy Christian and not feel. There is absolutely no way to be an emotionally-healthy Jesus follower without having emotions.

Dave: I agree. Connect those dots!

Rachel: Yes.

Dave: Again, I’m thinking of the guy—because I’ve done this, and I’ve even watched it from the stage.

Rachel: Sure.

Dave: I play in the band, and we’re singing a worship song, and I’ll look out there and see—I’ll just say, men.

Karen: Yes.

Dave: I’m sure there are some women.

Rachel: Sure.

Ann: Oh, yes; there are a lot of women.

Dave: Who are sort of locked up emotionally. I’ve said, many times, later, “We’re not doing a concert! Sing!”

Rachel: Yes.

Dave: But they’re just looking at us.

Rachel: Yes.

Dave: And those are the same guys that, if you take them to an NFL football game, they are chest-bumping each other.

Rachel: Right.

Dave: Raising their arms, shouting when their team scores a touchdown. You talk about emotion!

Rachel: Yes.

Dave: It’s there.

Karen: Yes.

Rachel: Oh, yes!

Dave: Put them in a church and say, “Go ahead! Express emotion,” and they’re locked.

Rachel: Yes, yes.

Karen: Yes.

Dave: It’s like separate: “No, this is different.” Why is it a struggle for some—I’m going to say—men?

Rachel: Sure.

Dave: But women, too? To unleash some emotion when it’s going vertical to praise their Father, you know?

Karen: I wonder? Is it that they’re locked up? Or is it that they’ve never experienced the joy of being loved,—

Dave: I don’t know.

Karen: —therefore they have nothing to give back?

Rachel: Oh.

Dave: That could be it.

Rachel: Yes.

Karen: I mean, you know, it’s one thing to try to get somebody to worship God. “Well, raise your hands,” or whatever you think that expression looks like. But if it’s not coming out of a place—so, if you’ve never received it—

Rachel: Yes.

Karen: —you have nothing to emote!

Rachel: Well, and here’s the thing, too: we teach this to women all the time. I mean, even in this first week of love, it’s like, “How do you receive a compliment when somebody tells you you’re beautiful?” I would say 95% of women would say, “Oh, this old thing?! Oh, my!”

Ann: Oh, yes! This was in our first years of marriage.

Rachel: Yes! Oh, absolutely. We do not know how to receive, and it translates to Jesus, Father God, and Holy Spirit. It is like, if you do not learn how to receive from humans—

I mean, I will say, too, this is the problem with most of us: we have looked to our daddies on earth, if we have daddies; we have looked to them, and we have said, “Oh, Father God’s like him.”

Dave: Yes.

Rachel: And maybe he wasn’t a good dad, or maybe he abused us, or maybe he was just silent. My dad was very quiet growing up.

Dave: Or he walked away.

Rachel: Yes, or he walked away.

Dave: Mine did.

Rachel: So, you’re like, “Well, Father God’s going to leave. So, I can’t trust Him.”

Dave: Yes.

Rachel: My dad did the best he could, but it wasn’t like he was telling me every morning when I woke up, “Baby, you are beautiful to me.” So, I think fathers give identity.

Karen: Yes.

Rachel: And it’s a tall order.

Karen: Yes.

Rachel: And, at the same time, that’s why we have therapy and inner healing, if you don’t have a good dad. But at the end of the day, I do think it is such a real thing for people to connect to God. “How did I relate to my earthly dad?”

Karen: Yes.

Rachel: Because mothers play the role; they relate to the Holy Spirit. Jesus is our Friend, and Father God is dad! So, it’s really interesting. We help people to connect those dots from their childhood, because most people do not connect those dots. We were listening to a song this week. It said, “The detour is the journey.” We so think, “All of these things have happened in our life; these detours.” And it’s like, they’re really not. It’s part of the journey.

Karen: That’s right.

Ann: I mean, when you look at biblical characters that we love—

Rachel: Yes.

Ann: —our heroes; look at Joseph!

Rachel: Yes.

Ann: And what he had gone through from being in prison to these, you know—he’s gone through so much. And it was part of the journey.

Rachel: Yes.

Karen: That’s right.

Rachel: It was.

Dave: Yes, and so much of it is—I walked through The Father’s House, and I know it’s not for me, it’s for women—

Rachel: It’s for you!

Karen: Everybody can learn from it.

Dave: I’m kidding, I’m kidding!

Karen: You’re invited!

Rachel: We’ve got some sleeper men that have taken it.

Dave: I would just say, it really is for both men and women.

Rachel: It is, yes.

Karen: Yes.

Dave: I know you wrote it, and you do women’s conferences.

Rachel: Yes.

Dave: But I’m reading through this stuff, and I’m like, “Oh, my goodness!”

Rachel: Yes.

Dave: It’s about theology—“Who is God?”—and identity.

Rachel: Yes.

Dave: You start with (and I’m going to just quote you here.

Rachel: Yes.

Dave: And I want you to just riff on this: “What it means to be lavishly loved and fully forgiven.

Rachel: Yes.

Dave: I’ll tell you something really quickly.

Rachel: Uh-oh!

Karen: We’re breaking out the guitar? What’s happening?

Rachel: Wow! This is so fun! Ooh.

Dave: There’s a [strumming] line in a song, and I know you know it.

Rachel: Yes.

Dave: Because it became a very famous worship song.

Ann: It still is!

Dave: But I remember the first time I ever heard it, probably two years or a year-and-a-half ago, I thought, “What a beautiful lyric.”

Karen: This is so fun.

Dave: “I’ve never been more loved than I am right now.”

Ann and Rachel, singing with Dave: “Thank I am right now. Wasn’t holding you up, so there’s nothing I can do to let you down.”

Rachel: Yes.

Ann and Rachel, singing with Dave: “It doesn’t take a trophy to make you proud. I’ve never been more loved than I am right now. You are Jireh; You are enough.”

Dave: Listen to that lyric!

Ann and Rachel, singing with Dave: “Jireh, You are enough.”

Dave: I mean, the first time I heard that lyric!

Karen: Yes.

Rachel: Oh, yes!

Dave: Whenever it came out: “I’ve never been more loved than I am right now.” I thought, “Do I believe that? Do we believe it?”

Rachel: Yes!

Karen: Yes. And just literally singing that over and over and over again to yourself, you start to connect. “It doesn’t take a trophy to make You proud.”

Dave: Right.

Rachel: Yes.

Karen: There’s nothing that you can do to make Him love you any more than He does right now or any less. It’s not just a love that accepts us and says, “Just go on doing what you’re doing, and I’m just going to love you anyway.”

Rachel: Yes.

Ann: Exactly!

Karen: It’s a love that says, “I’ve got something so much better for you!”

Rachel: Yes.

Karen: “There’s a life that you can have, lived in my presence that’s gong to change everything about your life!”

Rachel: Yes.

Karen: “It’s going to set you free from shame” (that we talked about in the last episode). “It’s going to set you free from your identity that you think you are.”

Rachel: Yes.

Karen: “Let Me tell you who you really are.”

Ann: Let me ask you both this: if I had asked you before you’d gone through this transformational gospel experience with Jesus—

Rachel: Yes.

Ann: If somebody had said, “Who are you?” Because I’ve said this: with the Detroit Lions wives one year, I started the Bible study as the season started, and I said, “Introduce yourself without saying who you’re married to or any accomplishments that you’ve done.”

Karen: Yes!

Ann: There was silence.

Rachel: Yes.

Karen: Yes!

Ann: No one knew how to answer that question.

Karen: Yes.

Rachel: Absolutely!

Ann: So, if you had to say, “My identity was found in _______,” what would you have said before Jesus?

Rachel: Oh, 100%, “being a mom.” One-hundred percent, “being a mom!”

Ann: Yes.

Rachel: And what’s so interesting—I’ll never forget going to MOPS [] for the first time after I’d just quit my job and had Davis, my first child. I remember they asked me to introduce myself, and I was like, “What do I do? I don’t have a job. I’m just a mom!” You know?

Karen: Yes!

Rachel: And I remember thinking, “I’m just a mom? I was successful! I was an executive,” you know? “I drove a car!”

Ann: “I did pageants!”

Rachel: But it’s funny! I remember, even then, feeling like my identity had been stolen, because I wasn’t in a job.

Ann: Yes.

Karen: Yes.

Rachel: It wasn’t enough to just be a wife; it wasn’t enough to just be a mom. It was like, “Wait! That was what I did.” Everything is about what we do, you know?

Karen: Yes.

Rachel: It’s not about who we are.

Ann: Would you have said the same thing, Karen?

Karen: Oh, yes; same, for sure. I remember going to the pediatrician, and he’d always say, “What do you do?” I would say, “Well, I’m just a mom. Why do you have to ask this question?”

Ann: I’m just. . . “

Karen: It’s so uncomfortable.

Rachel: Yes.

Karen: You’re not “working,” quote/unquote. For some reason, we denigrate being a mom to like—I don’t know. Anyway, we just define ourselves around our work.

Rachel: Yes.

Karen: And even then, “mom” is a form of work.

Ann: An accomplishment.

Rachel: Yes!

Karen: Yes, it’s what we do.

Dave: Of course, men do it.

Rachel: Oh, yes!

Dave: I mean, that’s how we’re known!

Karen: One-hundred percent!

Rachel: Yes. Well, and it’s interesting; what I’ve started asking people at, you know, parties or dinners, wherever we are, is like, “What do you love to do?” Because, to me, that question takes a hard-right turn to who they really are.

Ann: Yes.

Rachel: “What do you love to do?” Instead of, “What do you do?” It’s just a tiny tweak.

Dave: Yes, that’s good.

Karen: Well, and then the other question is, “How are you known by the Father?”

Dave: How do you answer that one?

Karen: Oh, my goodness!

Dave: “How are you known?”

Karen: What the Lord’s been saying recently to me is I’m an “attendant of the bride.”

Rachel: Yes.

Karen: I help others encounter Him as His bride.

Dave: Wow!

Karen: Yes.

Rachel: Every time I do any kind of thing, there’s just a supernatural gift of faith that the Lord has given me. I think faith is a conduit of heaven, and so, as we step out in faith and take risks, I think that’s what identity has allowed me to do. It has allowed me to be risky. That’s the currency of heaven! Faith equals risk, and to me, that is how He moves through me to other people. You know, whether it’s words or comfort or hugs, so that other people can come in.

Karen: I think what’s important is knowing that identity for her, and me knowing this identity [for me] enables us to then line our lives up in what we do. And that’s how we’re meant to live, right?

Rachel: Yes.

Karen: What we do comes from who we are.

Ann: The other thing that it does is it helps you not to compare with other people.

Karen: Yes.

Rachel: Oh, totally!

Ann: Because we live in a culture with our social media—

Karen: Yes.

Ann: That we’re being bombarded with what other people are doing.  And, I mean, if you talk to younger people and you ask them, “What do you want to do with your life?” They’ll say, “I want to be an influencer.” [Laughter] An influencer is a good thing!

Rachel: Yes.

Ann: But a lot of it has to do with, “I want to be like that person.”

Karen: Totally!

Rachel: Yes.

Ann: And to think I remember saying to our kids: “God has something so unique for you!”

Karen: Yes.

Rachel: Oh, yes; absolutely!

Ann: “You’re different from your brother. The way you think is different! The way you respond is different. I cannot wait to see what God has planned for you!” That way, you get out of the, “Oh, mine’s different than yours.”

Karen: Yes.

Ann: And “I’m going to celebrate you!”

Rachel: Yes.

Ann: Because together, it’s the body of Christ.

Rachel: Yes, it is.

Ann: It’s the gifts of the Holy Spirit all working together.

Karen: Right.

Rachel: And every person who takes Father’s House, we want them to walk away confidently saying, “I’m His favorite!” [Laughter]

Karen: That’s right.

Rachel: And if you can not confidently say, “I’m God’s favorite,” then you don’t know who you are, because you are His favorite!

Karen: Yes.

Rachel: That doesn’t make Karen any less favorite.

Karen: Right.

Rachel: And that’s the thing about Christianity and following Jesus and demonstrating the gospel. When you get lifted up, everyone around you gets lifted up! But in our culture, when you get lifted up, everyone gets pushed down.

Karen: That’s right.

Rachel: And that is so counter-intuitive to the Kingdom. Jesus was preaching the Kingdom, and that’s it for us. We want to preach the Kingdom!

Karen: You know, I’m just feeling for people listening, thinking, “Well, I don’t know what my identity is.” [I want to] let you know, it’s okay! He knows exactly where you are; He knows the journey that you’re on; and He will do everything in His power to unveil to you who you really are!

Ann: And ask Him!

Rachel: Absolutely!

Ann: I remember hearing a talk on this. We were actually at dinner with some friends, and he was talking about this, and I was like, “I want to know my identity! Who am I?” You know, “What does God call me?” It was just this interesting thing, and I was praying privately in the car, “Lord, what’s that look like? Who do you call me?” Then, I had this thought come to my mind, and I was like, “What was that? That wasn’t anything!” But in my mind, I heard “warrior of women.”

Rachel: Oh, yes.

Karen: Wow!

Ann: Which, I was like, “Oh, that was a joke! What is that?” Because I hadn’t—“What?!” And then, I told Dave that and said, “That’s an interesting thing.”

Dave: I mean, as soon as it came out of her mouth, I was like, “That is exactly who you are!”

Rachel: Oh, totally.

Dave: I could have told you that, but of course, I’m too much into me. [Laughter] But seriously, it came out of her mouth, and it was like—

Rachel: But had you told her that—

Dave: Yes. It wouldn’t have—

Rachel: It would never have been the same.

Dave: No.

Ann: And I think we wonder, “Was that the Father?”

Rachel: Oh, of course.

Ann: You know, “Was that Him?” So, even to say, “Does that align with Scripture? Is that what other people are saying? Does that correlate with my passions and my gifts?”

Rachel: Yes, yes.

Ann: Yes.

Dave: You guys know this better than anybody—I should say, “You gals know this better than anybody!”

Ann: “Y’all.”

Dave: When you understand your identity, which again, as I’m looking at your chapter titles and reading through them: you’re “fully forgiven,” you’re “lavishly loved.”

Rachel: “Lavishly loved.”

Dave: You’re “radically righteous.”

Rachel: “Radically righteous.”

Karen: Right!

Dave: I mean, we didn’t get into that.

Rachel: I know!

Dave: That is deep theology.

Rachel: That’s the best!

Karen: It is.

Dave: But when you really grasp, “That’s really true about me—”

Karen: That’s right.

Dave: It’s what Paul said in Ephesians 2:10, “You are God’s masterpiece.” Poeima. A work of art.

Karen: Yes.

Rachel: Yes.

Dave: When that is true—I remember doing a sermon years ago where I said, “When you understand that you are accepted by the King of kings, you can walk into any room and not need the acceptance of the people in the room.”

Karen: That’s right!

Rachel: That’s right.

Dave: So, you walk in the room with confidence.


Karen: That’s right.

Rachel: Oh, yes.

Dave: So often, we walk in rooms, and there’s a bit of fear.

Karen: Yes.

Rachel: Oh, yes.

Ann: For sure.

Dave: Like, “I’ve got to win her over,” or “I’m not sure.”

Ann: “They all have friends; I don’t.”

Dave: We walk in the room sort of like, “I am God’s chosen!”

Rachel: Yes, yes.

Karen: It’s a subtleness.

Dave: And again, it’s not that I’m better than anybody else! I can bring something to this room!

Karen: Yes.

Ann: “I can love lavishly.”

Dave: And speak out what God says for me to say! I’m not going to live timid; I’m going to live bold.

Karen: That’s right.

Rachel: Yes.

Dave: And that’s a theology of identity.

Karen: There’s a lead Scripture for the study. It’s Romans 8:15-17 in The Message. It says, “This resurrection life. . .” That’s what we’re talking about here.

Rachel: Yes.

Karen: “This resurrection life is not a timid, grave-tending life,” and that’s how most of us live, too.

Dave: Oh, I read that! It’s in there.

Karen: “It’s adventurously expectant, greeting God with a child-like, ‘What’s next, Papa?’” And that’s really the invitation to all of us: to wake up every morning, instead of saying, “God, what do You want me to do for You?” just say, “What’s next?” Fling the doors open wide!

Rachel: Yes.

Karen: This life, when I’m with You, we can be adventurously expectant, because we know You’re good, we know You’re faithful, we know You’re never going to leave us, and we know that, no matter what happens or comes our way, I’m not alone. You’re with me!

Rachel: Yes, yes.

Ann: And we are His beloved daughters.

Rachel: We are! And we’re in union with Him, and that’s been a big thing for us. It’s like, you know, when I studied cake baking, and I look at all the ingredients that go into the cake, I cannot, once that cake is baked—

Karen: I’m sorry; but “when I studied cake baking. . .” [Laughter]

Dave: Yes, I was just thinking, “I just did that last week.”

Ann: That was good.

Karen: When did you study cake baking?

Ann: That was very impressive!

Rachel: Well, I mean, when you study baking—

Ann: She watches The Cooking Channel.

Rachel: You’re just like—I mean, don’t miss the point here, people listening: it is so fascinating, because we are in Christ. And if we’re in Christ, we’ve been baked in, just like baking powder is baked into that cake.

Karen: Yes.

Rachel: You cannot separate out that baking powder! Which means I get to do so immeasurably more than I can ask or imagine.

Karen: That’s right.

Rachel: In every situation! Because I’m baked in. There is no separation, you know?

Ann: And it doesn’t mean—

Dave: I’m never going to think of Jesus the same way again.

Rachel: I know!

Karen: He’s a little chocolatey—

Rachel: You shouldn’t!

Dave: He’s baking powder.

Rachel: Well, I mean! He changes everything.

Ann: And it doesn’t mean that our lives will be free from conflict—

Rachel: No!

Ann: —free from pain or suffering.

Rachel: No, no.

Ann: But He’s with us.

Rachel: He’s with us!

Karen: That’s right.

Ann: And we are in Him.

Rachel: That’s right.

Karen: Never alone!

Rachel: Yes, it’s amazing.

Shelby: Once we are in Christ, we are baked in. Wow! What a beautiful image of our inclusion into the grander story of both what God is doing and how He’s working. I’m

Shelby Abbott, and you’ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Rachel Faulkner Brown and Karen McAdams on FamilyLife Today.


Rachel and Karen have written a book called Father’s House: The Path that Leads Home. You can pick up a copy by going online to or giving us a call at 800-358-6329. Either if you’re going online or if you’re giving us a call, I just wanted to tell you something really important and I’m speaking personally as a dad:

Did you know that this Sunday is Father’s Day? Some of you might be panicking right now. Well, it is this Sunday. You’ve only got a few days left to prepare something, or if you’re younger, draw something for your dad.

So, while you’re at, we wanted to let you know that our guest tomorrow, Thursday, and Friday is going to be Jerrad Lopes. He’s written a book called The Dad Tired Q&A Mix Tape: Jesus-Centered Answers to Questions about Faith and Family. This book is our gift to you when you partner with us financially here at FamilyLife. So, again, you can go online to, or you can give us a call at 800-F as in “family,” L as in “life,” and then the word, “TODAY.”

And feel free to drop us something in the mail as well at FamilyLife, 100 Lake Hart Drive, Orlando, FL 32832.

Now, coming up tomorrow, a lot of men believe that behavior modification is what actually changes us and, maybe, helps others around us; therefore, we get in this rut that if we just do stuff, that’s actually going to cut it. Well, tomorrow, Jerrad Lopes is going to join Dave and Ann Wilson in the studio to talk about the fact that the gospel changes men, not behavior modification. That’s coming up tomorrow. We hope you’ll join us.

On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I’m Shelby Abbott. We’ll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

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