Resurrection Changes Everything: Jeremiah Johnston

Jeremiah: Jesus tells those disciples in His final words—what’s called His “Farewell Discourse”: “Hey, because I live, you’re going to live also.” [Paraphrase of John 14:19] So, there is something about unlocking the truth of the Resurrection in our life. But we’re living in a time where most Christians don’t understand the facts of our faith.

Ann: Yes.

Jeremiah: They don’t understand: “Wait a minute! You really believe—? You truly believe someone came back from the dead?” Yes! Because the evidence compels me to believe that.

Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.

Dave: This is FamilyLife Today!

Dave: Alright, we have a Doctor in the house.

Ann: I like it when we have doctors in the house!

Dave: Well, don’t you always consider me a scholar?

Ann: [Laughing] Yes!

Dave: Look at you laugh! Look at that laugh.

Ann: You are a total scholar!

Dave: Whatever!

Ann: Here’s the question I have for you.

Dave: What?

Ann: Do you ever doubt? Are you a doubter when it comes to the claims of Christ?

Dave: You’ve been married to me 43 years. [Laughter] Go ahead and answer that question for our listeners.

Ann: Yes, yes.

Dave: Yes.

Ann: Not so much now, but you used to.

Dave: No, but there’s always—I want—

Ann: —proof.

Dave: —I don’t want somebody to just tell me. I want some proof, some evidence. And we’ve got—I’m kidding, but he is a Doctor who has a PhD. [Laughter] Jeremiah Johnston is back on FamilyLife Today. Welcome back.

Jeremiah: It’s so great to be with you, Dave and Ann. I always love our conversations.

Ann: We do, too.

Jeremiah: It’s such a privilege to be with you in this great ministry that God is using so tremendously. I’m excited about this conversation.

Dave: Sometimes I do this, Jeremiah: when we have a guest on—especially somebody who’s been on here before—you know, a song comes to me. I was in the shower this morning—

Ann: [Laughing] No, don’t act like this is—

Jeremiah: —we have a guitar handy!

Ann: —going to be a very spiritual song.

Dave: Yes, yes, yes.

Jeremiah: Oh, no.

Ann: It’s not a deep kind of beautiful. [Laughter]

Dave: No; one came to me this morning in the shower, and I don’t know where the tune came from, but it sort of just came from my head.

Jeremiah: We’ll see if I’ve heard it.

Dave: [Playing Guitar and Singing] “Jeremiah is a scholar!” [Laughter]

“Can answer anything you ask

He’s a freak with fire and a real good writer

He sure is a friend of mine.” [Laughter]

“He’s always connected to the Vine.

Singing, boy, he can teach

To all the unreached now

If you think that Jesus is just a spoof

Jeremiah’s got the body of proof.”

[Laughter]

Ann: Whoo!

Jeremiah: That was awesome! Mic drop.

Dave: Yes, I don’t know where that tune came from. Have you ever heard that tune before? [Laughter]

Ann: Oh, Jeremiah!

Jeremiah: Dave Wilson, everybody!

Ann: It’s only FamilyLife. [Laughter]

Dave: No, we are talking—

Ann: —when you first said it, he was thinking, “Oh, this is going to be this solemn, deep theological—

Jeremiah: —Spirit-filled. That was Spirit-filled.

Dave: That was Spirit-filled. [Laughter] Something like that. Three Dog Night back in the ‘70s. Jeremiah, you weren’t even born yet.

Jeremiah: Oh, wow.

Dave: Update our listeners on what you do, because the scholar part—of the New Testament—you really are. This is your lane.

Jeremiah: I think being a Christian means that we should know what we believe and why we believe it. We should know the great evidence for our faith. We share this amazing common faith that’s been around for 2,000 years. It’s radically changed the world. It’s changed health care; it’s changed societies; it’s brought equality, freedoms.

The gospel unleashed is the greatest force for good on Planet Earth; but like so many believers, my wife and I were newly married, and we didn’t consider ourselves Christian thinkers. We wanted to be. That’s not a put-down to anyone. We just read this passage: “Love God with your heart, soul, and your mind.” [Mark 12:30, Paraphrased]

Audrey and I were doing our devotions together, and I was saying, “Hey, I’m not sure we really love God with our mind like we need to.”

So, for us—and everyone’s calling is different, as you all know—God called me to go to the highest levels. I studied in Oxford. I literally did a PhD on the physical, bodily resurrection of Jesus at Middlesex University. I have, now, this great evidential base for our faith that empowers me every single day. Every day, I’m living in 1 Corinthians 15:58 “Therefore, be strong; be immovable; always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing your labor in the Lord is not in vain.”

Here's what’s cool about it, Dave: when we know what we believe and the evidence for it, we’re so much more relaxed in faith conversations.

Ann: Hmm.

Jeremiah: I’m a better listener because I know about the resurrection. I can really hear people, and what they’re struggling with; I can listen to those questions, because I’m so firm in what I believe. It makes you truly immovable. It doesn’t mean I’m immovable. The truth and the power of the resurrection in my life make me immovable.

Dave: Now, was this something, sort of like me, that you struggled with? “I have questions. I’m a skeptic,” or not?

Jeremiah: I wake up [as] a doubter every single morning; a false teacher in my heart, that has to be put down every single day. I believe in Psalm 42 and 43. I have to preach the truth to myself every single day. I mean, that’s Psalm 42 and 43, just preaching to yourself, constantly, the truth.

Dave: Yes.

Jeremiah: And I really bear witness with what the dad said in Mark 9—my favorite scene in the gospel, verses 22-24—“Lord, I believe. Help my unbelief.”

Dave: Yes.

Jeremiah: None of us has certainty. I want to make this very clear: faith does not equal certainty. Faith equals trusting God through the uncertainty. So, when I have certainty in my faith, that will be when I see Jesus face-to-face. But the great thing about our faith is, it doesn’t mean we have to be clueless either.

Faith is something to believe in. We don’t faith our faith. We faith what we believe.

Dave: You use an analogy—not really an analogy, but fact, faith, feeling.

Jeremiah: Yes.

Dave: You’re sitting on the campus of Campus Crusade for Christ, Cru.

Jeremiah: Right.

Dave: Where Bill Bright—I don’t know if you remember the Four Spiritual Laws—

Jeremiah: —oh, yes.

Ann: —and the train.

Dave: —he had that little train: fact, faith, feeling.

Jeremiah: Yes!

Dave: I remember, as a young believer in college, that simple little illustration helped me—

Jeremiah: —tremendously.

Dave: I thought faith meant you just faithed—

Jeremiah: —right—

Dave: —you just believe. It’s like, “No, I don’t get on an airplane without checking out the propeller hanging off the end of the wing.”

Jeremiah: Right.

Dave: “I’ll just have faith it’s going to—” You know, there’s fact that is the foundation. So, talk to our listeners about that, because a lot of us still think it’s still a faith thing, with no evidence.

Jeremiah: Yes; and our listeners need to understand that they’re no different from the first generation of Christians. The first generation of Christians struggled with immense doubt. In fact, the disciples left Jesus.

Ann: Yes.

Jeremiah: Let’s make sure we don’t forget the story. These are real people, real places, real events. They had given up. When Cleopas and the unnamed disciple are on this seven-mile journey back to Emmaus, they don’t realize they’re walking with Jesus; and they say, “Don’t you know what has happened and transpired in Israel? We had hoped [Luke 24:21—we had hoped] He was the Messiah, but, hey, He just got massacred on a cross. He’s not the guy!” [Paraphrased]

Dave: Yes.

Jeremiah: Nobody expected their Messiah to rise from the dead and conquered death. What changed everything—what changed their feelings, what changed their mindset; what, indeed, changed their faith—was the fact that Jesus was seen to be physically alive after death. He was seen for a period of 40 days. He was seen by over 500 people. In 1 Corinthians 15, we have three groups and three individuals named. This is fascinating to me!

There seems to be this notion in Christianity at times, that it’s all about feelings, it’s all about vibing. No, it was all about the facts of the faith in the First Century. Those facts alone—the death, deity, and resurrection of Christ—not only changed those first followers from skeptics, truly—from cynics—to the most powerful force on earth, [but] that’s what the resurrection can do in our lives today. And that’s why, in my book, Body of Proof, which is not a four-week Bible study, I’m advocating for the fact that, as Christians, we don’t study the resurrection enough.

For pastors listening, we don’t preach the resurrection enough! Are you kidding me? The resurrection is the focus of every sermon in the Book of Acts. There are 300 passages—over 300, actually; how do I know? I counted every single one; there are over 300 passages—in the New Testament about the physical, bodily resurrection of Jesus. That’s fascinating to me, because there are only 260 chapters.

Ann: Yes.

Jeremiah: So, you can do the math in your head.

The promise, Dave and Ann, that we’re given more than any other promise in Scripture, is the promise of John 14:19. Jesus tells those disciples in His final words—what’s called His “Farewell Discourse”: “Hey, because I live, you’re going to live also.” [Paraphrase of John 14:19] And that promise is repeated two dozen times in the New Testament.

 So, there is something about unlocking the truth of the Resurrection in our life. But we’re living in a time where most Christians don’t understand the facts of our faith.

Ann: Yes.

Jeremiah: They don’t understand: “Wait a minute! You really believe—? You truly believe someone came back from the dead?” Yes! Because the evidence compels me to believe that.

Ann: I’m excited about this one! Dave and I were talking about how we can’t wait to go through this.

Jeremiah: Thank you.

Ann: It’s four weeks, but you went over to Israel. Why did you go over there to do this Bible study?

Jeremiah: Well, what was fascinating to me was, I really did believe that the resurrection was under-preached, under-taught. I wasn’t prepared for the reaction for the original book, Body of Proof, which God used tremendously. Then, I was approached by the world’s largest Bible study publisher, Lifeway; we’ve all done the Priscilla Shirer and Beth Moore-type Bible studies. They said, “Hey, let’s take a crew with you to these very sites in Israel. Let’s go to those places that you have talked about as the great evidences for our faith.”

So, we got on a plane. We have two drone cameras, where you can fly drones in Israel—you can’t fly drones everywhere; they might get shot down—and four cameras. We went to the (what I call) epicenter of Christianity. We went to Lazarus’s tomb, and I yelled, with a loud voice, as if I were Jesus, “Duero exro!” in Greek: “Lazarus, come out!”

But then, I talked about the hope that that message gave to the immediate hearers.

This is not some sort of academic thing we’re talking about today. People had questions of triggers in their life. When Mary and Martha approached Jesus in Bethany, which is just 1.8 miles from Jerusalem, the sisters must have been talking about Jesus before He got there, because they both asked Him the same question.

Ann: Yes.

Jeremiah: “Hey, Jesus, if you had been there, this tragedy wouldn’t have happened in my life.” I hear a different question: “Where were you, man?!”

Dave: Yes.

Jeremiah: “Why didn’t you show up?”

Ann: Haven’t we all asked that question?

Jeremiah: Yes!

Ann: “Why, Lord? Where were you?”

Jeremiah: Jesus, though, doesn’t get upset at their question. He gives them evidence. Before He performs this great miracle of raising up Lazarus—and there I am in Bethany at the very tomb—

Ann: —what did that feel like?

Jeremiah: It was incredible!

Ann: Had you seen it before?

Jeremiah: It was hot! [Laughter] Have you been in a tomb lately? There was no air flow. I was dripping in sweat.

Ann: So, you walked into it?

Jeremiah: Oh, I was inside the crypt, as we call it. I could just see, in my mind’s eye, what happened. And Jesus said, “I am the Resurrection and the Life. If you believe in Me, thought you die, you will live on forever.” And He says, “Do you believe this?”

Jesus doesn’t shame us for our doubts. He sharpens us. He gives us an answer, but it’s not just an answer: “Oh, I’m a smarter Christian now.” That was not the point! It was, “Wow! That answer of the resurrection is like the balm of Gilead for my soul. Right now, it’s that balm that I need.”

So, for anyone who’s listening to us right now, that’s the power of John 11. That’s the power of the widow of Naan’s son in Luke 7. That’s the power of Jairus’s daughter, the ruler of the synagogue. And it’s also the power that will reach our own family members. I discuss this: one of the great evidences for the body of proof is the fact that Jesus’s family thought he was nuts!

Ann: Yes.

Jeremiah: How can I say that? Mark, Chapter 3; Mark, Chapter 6; John, Chapter 7. It’s actually said a little nicely in John 7: “Not even His brothers believed in Him.” But in Mark 3 and Mark 6, his brothers think He’s a lunatic; they think He’s out of His mind.

How does James go from wanting to admit Jesus in a psych ward—because they think He’s nuts; they truly think He’s a lunatic—to being the leader of the Jerusalem church? Well, First Corinthians 15 tells us: “And then, He appeared to James, the Lord’s brother.” And James goes from being the biggest skeptical family member—we all have those—to being willing to die for his faith in A.D. 62.

Ann: And [he] did die for it.

Jeremiah: He did—he was stoned to death. Friends, he only did it for one reason: the fact of the resurrection. So, wherever you’re doubting today, we’re all on that doubt scale; we have good days, and we have bad days. My heart is that we would understand, this isn’t just something we hear about when we do a funeral service, or we hear about at Easter time. Every Sundy is resurrection Sunday in the life of the church! We have resurrection power in us today.

1 Peter 1:3 says that we have a “living hope” right now! Not because of feelings, not because everything is going great in our lives. There’s only one reason that Peter said. It’s because of the physical, bodily resurrection of Jesus. I love that we have a living hope.

Ann: How has that played out personally, in your life? To see that, when you’ve needed hope? I was just thinking about your dad.

Jeremiah: Oh!

Ann: He’s gone through some things!

Jeremiah: It’s very kind of you to remember that. My dad—we went through the most difficult year we’ve ever been through. Being called and [told] my dad had days to live—not an exaggeration—and we had to set our house in order. I had to make some of those calls to brothers-in-law, like, “Hey, don’t tell my sister, but we need to all get to Houston as soon as possible.”

Ann: And were you close? Are you close with your dad?

Jeremiah: Very close! My dad’s my best friend.

To literally help him with basic human needs during his time—in fact, last time I saw you all, he was still hospitalized.

Ann: I remember.

Jeremiah: Still dying.

Well, God has gloriously healed him; but here’s the amazing thing: I want to not go to healing. I want to go to those moments [in] the 20 days on the cancer ward at the Med Center, where I was having a doctor—I didn’t know they could do this to you—say, “Do not leave.” They were saying it’s that serious.

Dave: Yes.

Jeremiah: “We need you to be here.” You know, my mom—watching her—they had been married since they were 19. They got saved at a revival my dad preached in Western Michigan. She’s a Michigander. But I saw the power of the resurrection in those moments, because there was no fear; there was anxiety, of course, and there was uncertainty.

But we knew—do you know the term God gave me? This is really scholarly: “God’s got this.”

Ann: Yes. [Laughter]

Jeremiah: “God’s got this.” He raised His Son from the dead. No matter what, we win. So, there was never that kind of fear that people without God have.

Dave: Yes.

Jeremiah: The hopelessness.

Dave: Right.

Jeremiah: I found myself wondering, as I walked those cancer halls, wondering, “Are these people going to make it? Is my dad going to make it?” How do people do it without the living hope of the resurrection?

Ann: Yes.

Jeremiah: Ann, that’s such a great point. And, yes, God did heal my dad; but for those who may have not experienced healing this side of heaven, the power of the resurrection is that it’s just a temporary goodbye. The power of the resurrection is, we will see our loved ones again. We will see them at their greatest point.

A lot of us have to say goodbye to our loved ones when they’re at their weakest. It’s hard to get those memories out of our mind. The power of the resurrection is, that same body that Jesus raised up, we’re going to have the same kind of body.

Ann: I remember when my sister was dying of cancer. She was only 44.

Jeremiah: Wow.

Ann: I remember her saying to me, “I know that He’s going to heal me.” And I remember, after she had passed, I went to the Lord and said, “I thought You were going to heal her.” In my heart, it was that confirmation: “I did heal her. She is healed. She’s with Me!” It may not have been on that side of heaven—

Jeremiah: Right.

Ann: But “she’s with Me.” One of the last things my sister said to me was, “I will meet you at the gates.”

Jeremiah: Amen!

Ann: And isn’t that the hope?!

Jeremiah: That’s the power of hope.

Ann: Yes!

Jeremiah: And that’s why we spend one whole week, in the Bible study, on the hope of the resurrection, both today and forever. It’s interesting. We kind of lose sight of the fact that the word “hope” is used 100 times in the New Testament. We often lose sight of that. I mean, even that passage that a lot of Christian apologists like to use, 1 Peter 3:15: “Always be ready to give an answer for the hope that is in us.” 1 Peter: “the hope of the resurrection;” Romans talks about the hope that literally steps on the head of Satan; it literally crushes him.

This is the hope that we unlock. So, the more that I understand about Jesus’s resurrection, the more I understand my own future resurrection.

Ann: Yes.

Jeremiah: They are linked! There’s a linkage there. The more assurance that I have that Jesus conquered death and sin and Satan, the more assurance I have that I will. So, guess what? I can be victorious today! I can be on message for the faith today. I don’t have to be defined by anxiety anymore; I don’t have to be defined by the hurt; I don’t have to be defined by something terrible that happened to me in the past or my trauma.

I can be defined by that same power that raised Jesus from the dead. The Bible promises it’s at work in me right now.

And those aren’t just words on a page. I’ve seen how those words empowered the least likely people to become powerful for God.

Dave: Now, how do you dig out when you’re struggling? I mean, last time you were here, we talked a little bit about anxiety.

Jeremiah: Right.

Dave: You know, when Ann was walking through her sister dying—and as a pastor, I walk beside people every week who really believe in resurrection, but in this moment, it’s dark.

Jeremiah: Right.

Dave: They feel like they’re in a valley, and they sort of have to dig out. They’ve got to take what they believe—loving the Lord with all their mind—and get it into their soul.

Jeremiah: Absolutely!

Dave: How does that happen? Because I know you’ve been there.

Jeremiah: Yes.

Dave: We’ve all been there.

Jeremiah: I’m there; and like I said, I almost wake up with it every day sometimes. I’ve been there in extremely dark times, and I have to go to John, Chapter 20. For me, I always go to the Word of God. [In] the Word of God, in John, Chapter 20, we have Mary, who is going to spice the body of Jesus, which is normal with Jewish burial traditions.

She thinks the gardener has taken the body. It’s dark. She doesn’t recognize Jesus. There aren’t streetlights everywhere. Then, there’s this powerful moment in John, Chapter 20, if you read the text. That says, “She saw and believed.” Now, she had already believed in Jesus; but sometimes, we need to see Him with fresh eyes.

So, I’ll ask the Holy Spirit of God: “Spirit of God, I need to see Jesus with fresh eyes today.” The passage there is Hebrews 12:2, “Let us fix our eyes on Jesus.” There is something about locking into Jesus when we’re at our worst. We realize that He loves us; He builds a superhighway to us when we’re at our worst. That’s Isaiah, Chapter 40. He’s always pursuing us.

John 13: “Having loved them, He loved them to the end.” You know what’s fascinating about that? Most of us, we have a very small number of people that really, truly love us. The more people know about us, the less people love us.

Dave: Yes.

Ann: Yes!

Jeremiah: The cool thing about Jesus, and why I love the end of John, Chapter 13—again, right before He goes to the cross; right before He rises from the dead—[is that] Jesus, knowing they are going to ditch Him, literally; they’re going to unfriend Him; they’re going to unfollow Him. “Having loved them, He loved them to the end.”

Jesus loves us with a perfect love. So, Dave, I wrap myself in those truths, first of Scripture; secondly, I ask the Lord to help me see Jesus, like Mary in John 20. She had already seen Him, but she needed to see Him again. She “saw and believed.” She needed that reassurance in that critical moment. Jesus met her in that critical moment.

So, “Lord, today, meet me at my greatest point of need.” That’s all I have to pray. I don’t have to give God the details. Then, He lets me see Him again, and I keep pursuing Him; I keep seeking Him, and that’s when transformation happens in those really dark moments.

Dave: I like your answer of “I need fresh eyes—”

Jeremiah: —yes—

Dave: —“to see Jesus.” Because when you’re stuck—and we all get stuck!

Jeremiah: Always.

Dave: You know, I know the resurrection; I’ve done my homework; I’ve studied it! I’ve looked at the prophecies. [If] somebody quizzes me on it, I can answer; but there are times when you are just thinking, “He’s not showing up.” You know, you start to question again: “Is this all just—?” You need fresh eyes. You need to see in a fresh way. It could be—for me, it’s just what you said! It’s Scripture—

Jeremiah: Right.

Dave: As I’m reading through, it’s like, “Lord, give me eyes to see this in a fresh way.” And He does. At other times, it’s a worship song. Other times, it’s things that God uses. It’s that certainty that just says, “Okay, I’m good again.”

You said it earlier: when you’re secure, you’re free!

Jeremiah: That’s right. It brings freedom.

Dave: When you’re not on stable ground, you’re always trying to find your security. But when you’re on the solid ground of the resurrection, you take risks. You live boldly. You run fast!

Jeremiah: That’s right.

Dave: Because you have a security that, I think, everybody longs for.

Jeremiah: But there’s also one other element I’ll say.

Dave: Yes; what’s that?

Jeremiah: The resurrection teaches us to live in the grace that we have today. We can’t live on yesterday’s grace or tomorrow’s grace. God gives enough grace for us today. So, sometimes, living in the resurrection for you might be getting up, getting ready, having a shower, getting a cup of coffee, and going through your day. That’s a really courageous thing to do. It might be going to church when no one else in your family is.

We’re not just talking about writing books or debating people on YouTube® or speaking places; we’re talking about the really courageous thing of, “I’m going to keep going. I’m going to keep walking in the directionality of my faith. I’m going to be like Mary. You know, I may think that Jesus is the gardener; I might be like the dad in Mark, Chapter 9 who says, ‘Hey, God.’” He didn’t even say “God.” He said, “Hey, if you can do anything, will you?” I love Jesus’s response there. “If I can?” And he said, “Well, I believe. Please help my unbelief.”

That was enough faith for him to see Jesus with new eyes!

Ann: Yes.

Jeremiah: So, that’s what I’m praying for the audience today as we talk about this discussion. Let the resurrection point you with new, fresh eyes, to see Jesus the way He wants you to see Him.

Ann: “Give us new, fresh eyes to see Him the way He wants us to see Him.”

Dave: Yes; and what I like is what you just said: take another step.

Jeremiah: That’s right.

Dave: It’s that courageous, just to get out of bed and take a step forward could be—

Jeremiah: —huge!

Dave: —a very courageous thing. If you’re just stuck right there, just take a step.

Shelby: I’m Shelby Abbott, and you’ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Jeremiah Johnston on FamilyLife Today. Jeremiah has written a book called Body of Proof. It’s a Bible study book with video access. It’s a study on the resurrection of Jesus. So, if you’re going to be leading a Bible study in your church or in your community or in a small group of some kind, this would be the perfect resource for you.

Not only do you get to teach something, but you get to learn something at the same time. So, the book and the video access study are going to be our gift to you when you partner with us today.

You can get your copy right now with any donation by going online to FamilyLifeToday.com and clicking on the “Donate Now” button at the top of the page. Or you can give us a call with your donation at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY.” Or you can feel free to drop a donation in the mail to us if you’d like. Our address is FamilyLife, 100 Lake Hart Drive, Orlando, FL 32832. If you do send us something in the mail, make sure that you mention that you want to request a copy of the Body of Proof study by Jeremiah Johnston.

Now, tomorrow, Jeremiah is going to be back, talking about encouraging curiosity and addressing doubts, specifically with our children and their faith. That’s coming up tomorrow. We hope you’ll join us.

On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I’m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

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