When Your Child is Doubting: Jeremiah Johnston

Jeremiah: We have 89 chapters in the Gospels; only four of those chapters are about the birth, and we celebrate Christmas. The majority of the 89 chapters of the Gospels are about what we’re talking about today, the death and resurrection of Jesus.

Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.

Ann: This is FamilyLife Today.

Dave: We’ve got Jeremiah Johnston back in the studio with us.

Jeremiah: So great to be here! Thank you. Love you guys. It’s awesome to be here.

Dave: One of the things, Jeremiah, I’d love to ask you is: you mentioned family—obviously, married—how many years?

Jeremiah: Twenty years.

Dave: Half as long as us.

Jeremiah: Wow.

Ann: Five kids.

Jeremiah: Yes.

Dave: A question every parent struggles with is—and you’re in the age where your oldest is how old?

Jeremiah: Fourteen-and-a-half going on twenty-one, man.

Dave: So, there you are.

Ann: And your youngest is how old?

Jeremiah: Seven, seven, seven. [Laughter]

Ann: Jeremiah has triplet boys. [Laughter]

Dave: I know you talk to parents who have a teenager—and it could happen earlier—but usually, in those high school years, a teen could walk up and say, “Mom and Dad, I don’t believe any more. You raised me in the church. We go every Sunday. Dad, you’re an apologist, you’re world-renowned, you’re a PhD; I just don’t know if I believe any more.” How would you counsel a parent, or yourself, in that moment?

Jeremiah: Well, you know these questions have all already happened to me. I mean, I have kids who are extremely inquisitive. Number One: “Encourage their curiosity. Never put down a question that they ask. Never not have time for it.”

Ann: “Or shame them for their doubt.”

Jeremiah: Yes, never shame them for their doubt. Of course not, because you were there once, or you might be back there; so, be careful.

I always encourage them first: “Let me make sure I understand your question,” “This is a great question.” By the way, they always want to ask questions at bedtime, or when I’m exhausted or, literally, during the game. [Laughter] Thank God we can pause live TV now. I truly—this is a part of my own sanctification; always having time to be present for their questions. So, encourage the curiosity. That’s so important.

But make sure people understand that—especially our children—they respond so much better to questions than assertions: “Oh, Lily, you should just believe that. I mean, come on, you come from a generation of Christians.” No! It [should be], “Lily, let me tell you why we believe in anything right now. Let’s talk about how we know truth from error.”

These nuclear devices that our kids have, called phones—

Ann: [Laughter] Nuclear devices!

Jeremiah: They’re truly trying to find information. I’m learning all the lingo, by the way, of Gen Z. Justin or Lily will say something, and I’ll say, “Hey, that’s cat, man.” [Laughter] I hope people know what I’m saying there; that means they’re lying. Kids are totally—their minds—are being misguided with things that are completely un-factual. So, how do we know anything is true? My kids go screen saver on me. You know what I mean?

Dave: Yes, yes.

Jeremiah: Screen saver. [Laughter] If I talk more than 60 seconds, by the way—so, good luck to all the parents out there, and God bless you—say it in 60 second or less. I’ll just have one-liners: “Hey, I’m a Christian because Jesus rose from the grave. I really don’t know what you’re asking me about in Leviticus right now. You know what? I’m glad there’s 3,200 questions in the Bible, because a lot of those are going to get answered when we get to heaven; but the things that are firm—the very little we have to know to be followers of Jesus—those things I’m firm in.”

I know if I can be solid in the resurrection—and the deity, death, and resurrection of Jesus, and the power of His Word, and that evidence: “Hey, I’m not going to get all the questions answered. There’s going to be some that I can’t wait to talk about for all eternity someday;” but I just keep bringing them back to the golden truth of our faith—the deity, the death, the resurrection of Christ—and then, “Hey, let’s look into this together. It’ll be fun.”

But “I don’t know,” "I don’t know about this,” “I don’t know about that.” It’s okay for parents to say: “I don’t know. There are people who do. Let’s watch a YouTube^® video,” “Let’s watch an interview,” “Let’s do a Bible study together.”

Really, for our kids—you guys know this better than most with the work that you do with families and ministry, it’s not having all the answers. It’s keeping the conversation going. That’s crucial.

Ann: Yes! They don’t necessarily want all the answers.

Jeremiah: No, because they’re going to go screen saver after 30 seconds anyway. [Laughter] They want to know: “Oh, I could ask him that. They’ve got an answer,” and “I’ll look into that.”

Ann: Yes.

Jeremiah: Never underestimate the power of the Holy Spirit speaking truth through you; how He plants seeds when you don’t think they’re listening. I’ve seen that at work a lot.

Dave: You mentioned four reasons we can trust the resurrection.

Jeremiah: In The Body of Proof…Resurrection  Bible study—there are two books; there’s The Body of Proof evidential book, which is great, but the Bible study, that’s just come out, is a study on the resurrection, where I take everyone by the hand. There are video QR codes throughout the study, so you don’t have to take my word for it. You can pull up a two-minute video here or two-minute video there. Again, I did that, honestly, with families in mind, because who has time for a longer video?

Ann: So, your videos are short.

Jeremiah: They’re very short. Even in the teaching segment—there’s four different teaching segments we filmed at Bethany; we filmed on the Mount of Olives; we filmed at the very resurrection tomb of Jesus; and then, we end, because we’re all on the road to Emmaus, we filmed from Emmaus.

Dave: What do you mean: “We’re on the road?”

Jeremiah: We’re all on the road to Emmaus. In Luke, Chapter 24, which is probably one of the coolest chapters in all of the Bible, because it tells us that all the Bible is about Jesus. That’s why we want to keep looking at Jesus in our faith. Two disciples—Cleopas, and we have someone who is un-named—are on this road, and they’re dejected. they had lost all hope. They’re like, “Okay, what are we going to do now? That didn’t work out.” And someone begins to walk with them, whom they don’t immediately recognize the fact—

Ann: —and these guys have been following Jesus.

Jeremiah: They had been following Jesus; yet, they didn’t realize it was Him. You never know. We know He had nail marks in His hands; we know that He had a wound in His side. Maybe He didn’t look normal, but that’s speculation. One thing we do know is that we’re all on this road to Emmaus, trying to find Jesus. Jesus is with them; they don’t even realize it at the time.

But then, Jesus begins to show them—what does He show them in their doubts?—Scripture. He begins in the Law, the Prophets, the Writings. He says, “These all testify to Me.” And then, their eyes are opened. Their eyes were opened in their moment of doubt through seeing Jesus, again, whom they had seen before and, then, seeing how He fulfilled Scripture. That is the pull point. We have 89 chapters in the Gospels; only four of those chapters are about the birth, and we celebrate Christmas. The majority of the 89 chapters of the Gospels are about what we’re talking about today, the death and resurrection of Jesus.

Ann: Jeremiah, do you ever think—because as I read through the Gospels, I’m like: “You guys! He told you over, and over, and over that He was going to suffer; that He was going to die; that He would come back again!” Do you ever think this: “How did they not get it?!”

Jeremiah: Absolutely! And here’s the interesting thing: that’s such human nature, isn’t it?

Ann: Yes! [Laughter]

Jeremiah: When we’re talking about Mark 8:31—this is Week 2 of the Bible study—where from Dominus Flevit; which just means, “God wept” in Latin. It’s literally Luke 19[:41-42]. One of the points of the Bible study is, in all our religiosity, we can miss Jesus. So, make sure we don’t miss Jesus in all our religion; because He weeps over the religious leaders in Luke 19. He said, “If you would have seen the things that bring you peace, but they are hidden from your eyes.” That’s why that church is called “Jesus Wept.”

I’m filming from there, but I use John, Chapter 2, Ann, where Jesus said—remember, they always wanted a sign? the Pharisees—and He said, “I’m going to destroy this temple, and then, I’m going to put it back together; I’ll rebuild it.” There’s a lot of great practical things: Jesus can rebuild the messes of our lives. But He said that—John 2 says, "And His disciples didn’t realize until after the resurrection what He was really talking about.”

He did the same thing in Mark 8:31; Mark 9:31; Mark 10:33-34. Constantly predicting—using Hosea 6:2-3, the Old Testament prophet of Hosea—and He applies it to Himself. I like to say He Messiah-nises the passage. He says, “Hey, that’s about Me. The Son of Man will be killed, and three days later.” Like I’ve said before, “If the church had a hashtag, it would be: ‘on the third day,’”—[Laughter]—“on the third day, the Son of Man will be raised from the dead.” He did that, showing that there was a purpose to His death.

The death of Jesus didn’t take Him by surprise. He came—Luke [9:51] says, “He set His face like flint toward the cross to pay for our sin.” Jesus enters our suffering; He enters our shame; He enters into the pain of death for us, so that we’ll never be touched by that, so we have nothing to fear. That’s why the number one commandment of Jesus, in the Gospels, is, “Do not be afraid.” I know we’ve heard that a lot on bumper sticker theology; that there are 365—but I’m talking about actual things Jesus commanded in the Gospels. If you look it up, His command He said, more than any other, is: “Don’t be afraid. Don’t be afraid.”

Dave: Yes, I was thinking, if some listener just tuned in, “Who is this Bible guy?! [Laughter] This guy knows the Bible better than any—” I mean, Jeremiah—and if you did tune in late—it’s Jeremiah Johnston. He’s a friend of FamilyLife^®. He’s been on here. You’re not just an apologist who knows the resurrection. You are comprehensive, bringing all this together. In some ways, I think someone could be intimidated, “If I don’t know the Bible like Jeremiah, I can’t believe.”

Jeremiah: Oh, no; yes.

Dave: And yet, you don’t have to know every—

Jeremiah: —you have to know precious little of what I’ve said today to believe. That’s the great thing about the faith. The faith is simplistic, but it’s also sophisticated. Something can be simple and sophisticated.

I want to just say this: I’m a truth addict. [Laughter] My prayer from today is that people will become truth addicts. They’ll see that, with the power of the Holy Spirit—this is what’s so great about Christianity—it’s so understandable. If you give God time; if you read the Bible just four days a week, it has a radical change in your life.

Dave: Jeremiah, maybe I said this last time you were here, but 44 years ago—my first year of ministry—Ann and I had just gotten married. We were at the University of Nebraska, working with college athletes and sharing, basically, Jesus. My mentor, who was on staff for like ten years, was assigned to train us. Barry [was] a Physics major in college; very astute intellectual. He memorized books of the Bible.

I go out, sharing the gospel with Barry. Did I tell you this story?

Jeremiah: No, no. I’ve never heard of this.

Dave: This is fascinating. It was in these dorms in Nebraska. I’m like a trainee—I’m sort of [observing]. “Just watch me!” Barry’s like, “Pray and watch.” I’ll never forget; we go in this freshman/sophomore room in some dorm. We have “The Four Spiritual Laws,” a little tract we had to go through. We pass it out to this guy, who said he was interested, but then, he starts mocking us: “Oh, you guys are religious guys. Want to try to get me to Jesus, right?”

The door was open, so, as guys walked by, he would yell at them and say, “Hey, man, I’ve got some Jesus freaks. Come on in here!” Next thing I know, we’ve got 12 or 15 guys laughing at us.

Jeremiah: Wow.

Dave: I’m sitting there thinking, “This is not going well. [Laughter] I’m not sure what I’m supposed to be learning right now, but I’m not doing this again.” I just wanted to get out of there.

Barry was a master. He said, “Hey guys, you don’t want to look at this thing?” They say, “No.” He says, “Throw it on the ground.” They all throw it on the ground and laugh. He says, “Let me ask you a question: ‘do you guys believe that Jesus was an actual, historical person?’” Every guy in the room says, “Yes.” He says, “Do you know what He said?” “Not really.” Because he knew the Word so well, he just starts ripping off quotes from Jesus—

Ann: —all the red letters.

Dave: —about the resurrection:—

Jeremiah: That’s so awesome.

Dave: “John 11:[25] ‘I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in Me, though he dies, he will live.” He must have done ten of those. The room goes silent. And then, Barry turns and says, “If you believe in this Man that I just quoted, you can have eternal life. Who’s interested?” I bet half the room left, and half of the room stayed, [and] he led them to Jesus.

Jeremiah: Wow.

Dave: That moment, I remember walking out, thinking, “Now, that’s one of the best lessons I’ve ever learned.”

Jeremiah: That’s so powerful.

Dave: You can have a cute tract, and they’re helpful.

Jeremiah: Right.

Dave: But it really comes down to the historical reality: “This man rose from the dead, and it proves everything He said.”

Jeremiah: That’s right. All the Bible study, from then on, is figuring out what happened to us the moment we said, “Yes,” to Jesus. I want to make that very clear. Bible study isn’t about being more knowledgeable, because Paul said, “Knowledge puffs up; love builds up,” [1 Corinthians 8:1 paraphrase] It’s about, “Hey, let me figure out what happened to me in that moment when I barely understood anything, but I had enough faith in Jesus and His death and resurrection for me to say, ‘Yes, Jesus. Forgive me of my sins, [so I can follow You].’”

The rest of our life is figuring out what happened at that wonderful moment of conversion, because 39 unalterable things happened to us, according to the book of Ephesians, the moment we said, “Jesus,” that can never change. We were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. We were glorified at that moment, according to Ephesians. We became an adopted son of God. It literally goes right through the list in the book of Ephesians 1-3. These are facts that happened to us.

Again, you didn’t know all that happened to you the moment you became a Christian.

Dave: No.

Jeremiah: It’s like, you know, I can’t remember what day I was born, but I have good evidence it happened. [Laughter] I’m sitting here right now.

Ann: Yes, yes.

Jeremiah: Those truths begin to grow in our life. That’s the power, again, of locking into the resurrection more than just on Easter Sunday; more than just in a funeral sermon. Resurrection is the fuel that gives power to every other doctrine of the Bible. The resurrection belief is what gives us hope. I mean, that’s why there’s this connection between hope and the resurrection, between assurance and the resurrection, between strength and the resurrection.

Jesus couldn’t stop talking about His death and resurrection because that’s what He knew we needed. And then, there’s incredible proof from the last 2,000 years of men and women, who believed in this, who then go on to do remarkable things for God.

Ann: Let me ask you, with your Bible study, why did you want to take a film crew over to Israel? Which, by the way, you were over there, and right after that is when Israel was attacked.

Jeremiah: Yes, it was remarkable. We were there within days of the terrorist attack on October 7, filming in all these spots. By the way, I never felt safer in Israel; I never had a better time. I’ve been many times.

I wanted to take a film crew there because I have this problem of becoming a skeptic and a cynic, that the Lord really works on me about, every single day. I wanted to be able to guide viewers, like my family, by the hand to say: “This is the very spot where He rose from the grave.” We’re not talking about myths, fairy tales, legends. We’re talking about real people, real places, real events. “This is the spot, 2,000 years later, where Lazarus came out of the grave alive.”

Ann: “This tomb, right here.”

Jeremiah: “This very spot.” “This is the spot where the Emmaus disciples were ready to give up.” “This is the spot where Jesus—they asked for a sign, and He said, ‘I’m going to give you one sign’ [Mark 12], the resurrection from the dead.” ‘I’m going to destroy this temple.’” That meant God was bringing heaven and earth together. That’s what He meant when He said, “I’m going to destroy this temple and rebuild it. I’m bringing heaven to you. You don’t have to go to one place anymore. You don’t have to go to a temple. You don’t have to go through this sacrificial system anymore. I am your sacrifice.”

I love how John 2 says, “They really didn’t get it until after the resurrection.” Just go and read John, Chapter 2, for yourself. That’s why I took a film crew, because we live in such a visually-stimulated time. It’s fast-moving. I kept [telling] my boys: “No segments more than two or three minutes,” so it’s perfect for a Bible study, where you can watch where we filmed. It’s fast-moving. It feels like documentary. It feels cool; it’s got a great music bed, and it keeps going to all these places.

But in all these places, I’m not like telling you how old the rock is. [Laughter] I’m telling you: “What difference does this make today? What difference does it make in the hearers then and the hearers now? What are those timeless truths that we can lock into?”

Dave: Have you watched it with your family yet?

Jeremiah: Oh, yes. Normally, I hate to watch myself, [Laughter] but I’ve broken this rule, because it was so surreal being there. I want to say this: having a ministry, now, for over 20 years, I’ve never had a greater ministry experience in all of my life than filming—

Ann: —really? And you’ve been over there before.

Jeremiah: Oh, I’ve been over there numerous times.

Ann: Yes.

Jeremiah: Being able to capture that footage, because I do believe, unfortunately, with everything that’s happening in the Holy Land, many people will just never go, this side of heaven.

Dave: Yes.

Jeremiah: I now have a gift to give them, where I can bring that footage to them. I’ve never seen footage from—you know, I scour YouTube when I do my research—no one has footage like what we have in Body of Proof, where you can actually see the sights and follow me into the very spots.

Ann: Where else did you go?

Jeremiah: Well, we went to all the Jerusalem resurrection sites. We had to get a Hummer^® to go to the road to Emmaus. That sounds extravagant until you’re bouncing up and down, side to side, because we truly had to go off-road to get there. A lot of people—because of my connections in archaeology, I know where the spot is. You say, “Well, how do you know that’s the spot?”

Ann: [Sounding like a man] “You know my connections with archaeology.” [Laughter] This guy’s like—who are you?! [Laughter]

Jeremiah: I texted Eli Shukron to make sure I was in the right [spot]: “Yes, do you see the milestones?” “Yes, I do. Oh, yes, there they are.” It’s just right there.

We went inside the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, which was phenomenal.

Ann: Yes, tell us about this; and share what the Holy Sepulchre is.

Jeremiah: Okay; the Church of the Holy Sepulchre—holy sepulchre; a sepulchre is a burial spot, that’s all that is.

The Church of the Holy Sepulchre goes back to the early 4^th Century, but it goes back much earlier than that. You have to understand the antisemitism [toward] the Jews in the 2^nd Century was so bad that Hadrian, in AD 135, renamed the Holy Land, Palestine. He demolished all of the Jewish holy sites.

He saw Christianity just as another Jewish sect. They knew that they all rallied around this burial spot outside the city. According to the book of Hebrews, “He was crucified outside the city.” He demolishes it, and he builds a temple to Jupiter and Venus in

AD 135, therefore, preserving the spot of Jesus’ death and resurrection, which is fascinating.

People didn’t travel a lot. Village memory was something that people had. There was not as much migration; people weren’t as transient. Constantine’s mother, whom I call the Mother of Archeology, in 326, comes to Israel. They said, “Oh, yes. Jesus’s resurrection happened where Hadrian put up that temple to Jupiter. That is the exact spot; it’s un-impeachable.” She builds a little church there, called the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, where we have it now. The archeology of it is fascinating; it’s a 1700-year-old story.

The cool thing is, though, National Geographic—not a Christian publication—did a remodeling of the actual resurrection tomb in 2017. It was opened for 60 hours. All of it is 1^st Century. And these are skeptics; these aren’t evangelical Christians testing this. It’s all 1^st Century; it’s all right place, right time.

We had the option to film somewhere around the church complex. In fact, when we first went in—and you’re hearing this only today on FamilyLife Today, [Laughter] by the way—some of this delicious detail.

Dave: —exclusive.

Jeremiah: We were told: “You can’t talk. You can just film B-roll.” But the Muslim man—which is interesting; a lot of Christians may not know a Muslim family—has the keys to the holiest site of Christianity and opens the door every day and locks the door. On my original Body of Proof book, I actually have a picture of the little house, or what’s called the aedicule. I showed the Muslim man. I said, “Hey, I wrote about this.” He stops a line that people have been waiting in for eight hours—there are 20,000 people a day; maybe, more than that—I’m able to take a camera with me into the very shelf that Jesus’s body came alive on in His resurrection.

Ann: I’m amazed that you—I’ve been over there four times.

Jeremiah: I’m standing right there; I’m kneeling down. I’m saying, “This is the very place where His body came back to life and walked out of that tomb right there.”

Dave: Wow.

Jeremiah: And then, there are other tombs around it. A lot of people don’t know this. I know where [there] are other 1^st Century tombs. Again, He’s buried in a 1^st Century rock-hewn burial ground; essentially, a rock quarry. That’s just one of the four weeks.

Ann: [Laughter] It’s amazing that he let you do that. They’re so strict!

Jeremiah: Oh, yes. Our crew was like, “Go, go, go!”

Dave: Yes.

Jeremiah: We just kept the cameras rolling.

Ann: So, as you saw the slab where Jesus came alive, what were your thoughts? Did it feel like a holy moment, or were you in your head? Could you really experience it?

Jeremiah: I thought I was going to blow up. [Laughter] I was so excited!

Ann: Really?!

Jeremiah: I had never been in there before, because I’m not going to wait in that line.

Ann: Me, neither.

Jeremiah: I’m not only there for the first time myself; they’re filming my reactions. Of course, I got through all of the content; and then, I was in there alone. It was just amazing. It was amazing.

Ann: It’s the foundation of our faith.

Jeremiah: It’s the foundation of our faith. What happened, from that moment on, is the difference-maker in all of our lives, and we know Christianity is true.

Dave: Yes, I’m excited to think of families sitting and watching what you just talked about, and then, having a conversation.

Jeremiah: Yes.

Dave: That’s a gift that you have given so many of us.

Jeremiah: And it’s only eight minutes, guys. [Laughter] We’ve probably talked about behind the scenes longer than what you’ll actually see, but we did that on purpose, so kids stay tuned.

Ann: And our kids need, our families need, we need the foundation of the gospel and Jesus, because the world is screaming, and they’re distracting us from everything but that.

Dave: You were excited, being there. I can imagine families watching—and it’s an eight-minute video, so that’s good—but the conversations that are going to happen with teenagers/college kids. I don’t know; I think it’s going to be so exciting. I can’t wait to do it! We haven’t seen it! We’ve only seen the trailer. And, by the way, you look good, man.

Jeremiah: Oh, thank you! [Laughter]

Dave: I mean it. The music—seriously, the music bed was—I was impressed. You didn’t call me to do any music for you.

Jeremiah: You’ve got skills now. I’m impressed.

Dave: Whatever.

I’m also excited to think that we can give this as a gift to our FamilyLife partners. You give a financial gift to FamilyLife, become a monthly partner with us, and this is going to be your gift, not only for you; but for your family. This will be pretty cool.

Ann: Yes.

Jeremiah: Well, if I may, that’s why I’m so happy to be partnering with FamilyLife. This ministry is so crucial, and the need is stark right now for strong families.

Dave: Yes.

Jeremiah: I would just encourage everyone listening to partner with FamilyLife, because this is a life-changing ministry. The fact that you can donate, and then receive life-changing resources just to say, “thank you”—this is something we all need to get on.

Shelby: I’m Shelby Abbott, and you’ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Jeremiah Johnston on FamilyLife Today. You may be wondering, “How do I get the book and the video series? How do I get access to this study on the resurrection of Jesus?”

Super easy! The book and the study are going to be our gift to you when you partner with us today. You can get your copy right now with any donation by going to FamilyLifeToday.com and clicking on the “Donate Now” button at the top of the page. Or you can give us a call with your donation at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY.” Or you can feel free to drop us a donation in the mail. Our address is FamilyLife, 100 Lake Hart Drive, Orlando, FL 32832. Just drop a note in there, if you mail us something, and request your copy of Body of Proof.

Now, tomorrow, Jeremiah Johnston is back to talk about the power of waiting on God. It’s a very difficult thing to do, but a very positive thing. He’s going to talk about that and unpack that for us tomorrow. We hope you’ll join us.

On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I’m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

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