Six Life-Giving Rhythms for 2025: Debra Fileta

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Six Life-Giving Rhythms for 2025

Guest:Debra Fileta

From the series:The Art of Soul Care (Day 3 of 3)

Air date:January 3, 2025

Debra:This is why this is different than self-care. This is not just going to shoot some hoops or get a manicure pedicure, but this is deeper than that. It’s going underneath the surface. It’s practicing healthy rhythms. It’s staying connected to the source of our fullness and partnering with Him to practice these things that are going to keep us filled so that we can continue to pour out.

Dave:Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Dave Wilson.

Ann:And I’m Ann Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

Dave:I have to admit, when we have this guest on our program, Debra Fileta, she’s sitting across and looking, giving me that eye right now. I have two emotions going on. One is I’m so excited. She’s so deep and wonderful and awesome and it’s going to be a great program. The other is, I’m afraid—

Debra:Fear and trembling.

Dave:—she’s going to step into my soul and pull something out that I don’t even know is there. And she can see. I remember when I would be preaching at my church, we had a counselor, Jack, and I’d be up there on stage and whenever I’d see him, I’d be like, “What’s he thinking?” He’s like, “Dave is so messed up right now.” The rest of the congregation going, “Go Dave,” and he’s like, “There’s this brokenness and this”— It’s awesome but at the same time I’m like—

Debra:Well, I’ll tell you this—

Dave:I want it, but I don’t want it.

Debra:This will make you feel better. Real counselors, good counselors are also aware of their own brokenness. We kind of focus on that more to get healthy. So if you run into a good counselor, just believe they’re probably thinking about their own junk.

Ann:That’s good.

Dave:That’s good.

Ann:I’m just going to say—

Dave:You don’t always think that.

Ann:—I love having her in, and the more she sees not just you but me, the better.

Dave:I feel the same thing. That’s why I get excited. It’s like I want a mirror. You’re like a mirror and it’s like I want to be able to see that. You said when we were on your program, “Marriage is like a mirror because you mirror your wounds back to one another.” That’s why you’re so deep. You go way underneath, and our listeners are going to love today.

Ann:And if you haven’t already, go back and listen to our last two episodes because there’s some nuggets in there that you’re just going to want to share with friends, with a spouse; and you’re ultimately going to want to pick up the book because after every chapter you have some questions, Debra, to take us deeper. The book is called Soul Care.

Dave:But I want to make sure our listeners know this because you read these subtitles and you’re like, “I want that.” Find Life-giving Rhythms; pick up a book right now. I want that. Life Restored, I want that. Discover Unspeakable Joy. No, that’s not even possible. You’re like, yep. And then Avoid Burnout. I’m not kidding. You’re like, “I want that.” But you just don’t get that; there’s a journey, right?

Debra:Yeah. And I think a lot of people don’t think it’s possible.

Ann:I think you’re right. And if maybe they’ve tried before and they’ve given up.

Dave:Unspeakable joy, that sounds like an overpromise.

Debra:I mean that sounds biblical, right? And that’s the thing. I think we do think it’s an overpromise, but that’s what God’s will is for us to live filled.

Ann:And it doesn’t mean all your circumstances are perfect. I look at the disciples, I look at Paul’s life. They’re in chains, but he’s worshiping.

Dave:Jesus.

Ann:And so somehow in the midst of hard or pain or transitions, they still had unspeakable joy in Christ.

Debra:Yes. I agree and I think we can partner with Him to get to that point. I think Jesus wants to help us heal, but He looks at us and says, “Do you want it? Do you want to be healed? Because if so, I need you to do this. I need you to get up and show me that you actually want this. Take your mat, get up and walk, stretch out your hand, show me that you’re partnering with me on this healing journey.”

And so that’s why we’re talking about these six life-giving rhythms that I believe Jesus himself practiced, to care for his own soul, to fill up so that He could pour out in the ways that God called him to.

Ann:And you don’t think you’re stretching it too far to say Jesus practiced these? Because some people have like, “What are you talking about now? You’re bringing the counseling mumbo jumbo into the Scriptures.”

Debra:Yeah. I really believe that it’s biblical. And that’s where this is all about. This isn’t just things that we made up. A lot of these rhythms are backed by counseling and psychology, but they’re from the life of Christ. We see Him modeling this for us to show us that we can do this as well, and we’re called to do it in this way as well.

Dave:So review the three we’ve done and then let’s do three more.

Debra:So we talked about the rhythm of nourish, which is about hydration, movement and nutrition. We talked about rest, which is about analyzing your sleep as well as the rhythms of rest and how you pace yourself in life.

Dave:Jesus took naps.

Debra:Yeah, we talked about the rhythm of protect, which is about setting boundaries and figuring out why you have a hard time with boundaries and learning how to protect what God has given you and say no to everything else.

And then the next rhythm that we can talk about is the rhythm of connect, and it’s about engaging in life-giving relationships with God and with others. What does it look like for us to have life-giving relationships versus relationships that drain us and being really intentional, realizing that we need people, and we need healthy relationships and we’re part of the equation of health, but we’re also required to engage in healthy relationships with others.

And so getting to the roots of some of our relational needs, and in that section, I analyze how Jesus was a good friend and how He modeled healthy friendship to us. I think one of the most interesting things about that section was seeing that Jesus didn’t just give in relationships, He also received.

Ann:This is God in flesh, but He also received; that’s interesting.

Debra:He asked for things from his disciples.

Ann:Like what?

Debra:“Will you go and prepare the Passover? Will you stay up with me and pray? Will you go and do this? Will you go and do that? Will you go and get food?” He asked things of His disciples. He received. Remember when Mary came to wash His feet? His friend, His friend, He could have said, “No, no, no, no, no. You don’t have to do that. I’m fine.” He received from His friends.

I think oftentimes we get stuck in these cycles of relationships where we give and give and give and give and give and give. “Oh no, no, I’m good. I’m good. No, I’m not going to ask anything. I don’t need anything.” And then the relationship starts to go downhill because it becomes one sided and draining rather than what it was supposed to be, which is life-giving.

Ann:Why do we do that? I do that. “No, I’m fine. I’m fine. I’ll do it. I’ll do it myself.”

Dave:Go do it; go, go, go.

Debra:I know.

Dave:Dig in there.

Debra:Well, okay, let’s rewind a couple episodes back to the why. Why do you do that? And you talked about your people pleasing tendencies and not wanting to put things on people. And again, there is that “I’m going to please them. I’m going to make sure they’re okay. I don’t want to burden them.”

Ann:I want everybody’s life to be easier.

Debra:Yeah, “I don’t want to ask something of them. I don’t want to put something on them. I’m just going to take care of it myself.” And that’s not a healthy way to live. And it’s rooted in unhealthy belief systems that maybe make us feel like our needs are too heavy. Our needs are burdensome. Our needs are for us to carry rather than inviting people to carry the load with us. Jesus says we need each other. Encourage and edify one another in 1 Thessalonians 5. We have to be the body that walks with one another, not in isolation.

Ann:And I have to think too, when Jesus asked them to do things, He could have done it Himself easily. And yet He asked and showed a need Himself, which is growing the disciples too. I’m thinking when somebody asks me to help them, I love it in terms of, “Oh, they need me,” and I like that.

Debra:And it’s growing the relationship because with vulnerability—

Ann:That’s it.

Debra:—comes intimacy.

Ann:That’s it.

Debra:And if I don’t have vulnerability of here’s what I need and I’m just focusing on your needs, you don’t get to connect with me, you don’t get to have intimacy with me. And I think in being vulnerable, He invited them into intimacy with him.

Dave:I mean, when you talk about connecting life-giving relationships, is it important to analyze how different people in our life impact us?

Debra:I think so.

Dave:I remember a book I read decades ago by Gordon MacDonald called Ordering Your—no, no, no—Restoring Your Spiritual Passion and he had—and again, I won’t go into all the details, but he had five different types of people that you spend time with and he said, “You need to analyze how they affect your passion for God.”

Debra:Yeah.

Dave:And he said, if you’re with a—he called it a VRP, very resourceful—a mentor. You spend time with them; you get in the car to go home; you’re like, “Wow, I’m”—

Ann:—filled.

Dave:“I’m ignited. They ignited my spiritual patch.” Great. A VIP says somebody, it’s sort of the same place you are spiritually. You spend time with them, get in the car, I feel ignited. VTP, very trainable person, somebody you’re pouring into, somebody you’re helping them grow. You get in the car, I’m fired up. It was like, I don’t even realize it, but that time with them energized my soul. He said, but most of our time is, I’ve never forgotten this.

Ann:Me too.

Dave:He said most of our time is spent with VNPs and VDPs: very nice people, very draining people. He said, you’re with nice people, they’re really nice, but when you get in the car, you’re like, I feel sapped.

Debra:Right.

Dave:And draining people, I’m drained. You see their number come up on your phone and you’re like, “I don’t even want to take this call.” And he says, we spend more time there. We feel like we’re called by God to help others. So that’s my cross to bear. He goes, you definitely are called by God to help people that drain you and are nice. You need to pour into them, but if you analyze your life and all your energy is there and you’re never getting filled by your connections, it’s not going to do well for your soul. Agree?

Debra:Exactly, 1000 percent agree. And I talk about what that looks like and how to assess healthy relationships and which ones we might need to purge from our life or set boundaries with or love from a distance.

Dave:And Jesus even did that.

Debra:Jesus had circles. Imagine how many people needed Him, how many people were crying out for attention and intimacy and closeness with Him. He didn’t say yes to everybody. He said yes to the chosen and He prayed over them for a night before He chose His disciples. He prayed. That’s intentionality. Do we pray about who we should bring up close or do we just bring them up close by default?

Oftentimes it’s by default rather than, “Lord, have you called me to this? What does this look like? How do I balance this with healthy relationships? Which ones are filling me? Which ones are draining me? Which ones have you actually called me to, and which ones are not actually my responsibility to bear?”

Ann:Alright, here’s a very practical question. I’ve shared this one other time where when we were in seminary, there was a friend, she lived close by, she’d be over constantly knocking at the door. There was a point—this is terrible—she rang the doorbell, and I had a window, and I dropped to the floor. I’m on my stomach in the hallway so she can’t see me, so she doesn’t think I’m home.

And I’m thinking, because I had just read this book, VDP, very draining person, and I thought, “Oh, I feel so drained, and I just don’t have the time.” But I never had a conversation with her or put a boundary around it. I don’t know how to do that as a believer without it feeling harsh. What could that conversation look like if I’m trying to put a boundary there?

Debra:And that’s exactly what we need to learn is that boundaries can be kind, firm, but kind. Once you have determined what relationships are permanent and what relationships need to be more of a distant, once you’ve determined where these people fit into your life because this takes discernment and prayer, having a conversation with someone like, “Hey, I love you, I appreciate you. I love our time together. But I’ve also realized something about me is that I get drained very quickly and so as much as I—

Ann:But not by you.

Debra:Well, you don’t have to say that.

Ann:Yeah, that would be hard to hear.

Debra:But you could just say, make it about you.

Ann:Yeah.

Debra:One thing that I have realized is I get drained really quickly in relationships and I need to make time for alone time. I need to make time for things that fill me up so I’m not able to spend as much time with you as I would like and maybe as you would like so what if we spend this much time together? Here’s my plan. I would love to get together with you once a week. That would be really great. Be specific. Tell them what’s going on.

Ann:Once a year.

Debra:Tell them what you need—for you and me once a year. And then learning to love people from a distance means saying no. If she invites you to do something, “I really appreciate that, but I’m not able to do that. I already have plans.” Even if your plans are, I’m going to be home resting because I need a break this week.

Ann:I think even Lysa TerKeurst was talking about drawing boundaries. I used to overexplain. “I can’t come because dot, dot, dot.” You don’t have to say that. Just say, “I’m so sorry I can’t come.”

Debra:Yes, you know your limits. I’ve even had hard conversations with someone where they really wanted to be friends with me and I just knew I didn’t have the capacity and I had to tell her, “You’re a wonderful person and a wonderful friend. I know my capacity, and in this season, I just don’t have the capacity to pour into relationships and keep them healthy in the way that I wish I had the capacity. I would love to get together with you every once in a while, but I just need you to know I’m not going to be able to invest in this friendship the way that you would like to invest in this friendship. I love you and appreciate you, but I just need you to know where I’m at.”

And I’m not saying those are easy conversations to have, but we have to have the courage to have hard conversations and honor people in how we communicate by telling them the truth. Honor our capacity by telling ourselves the truth and instead of hiding behind the window—

Ann:On the floor.

Debra:Right, that’s draining for you too. Then to live your life feeling like you have to dodge all the time and explain and overexplain, but just being honest and assessing which relationships we need to tweak.

Ann:That’s good.

Dave:At the same time, what you’re saying is make sure the ones that do bring life to you and you’re bringing life to them,—

Debra:—invest in those.

Dave:—you got to figure out a way: “This is a priority in my life.”

Debra:Yes, be intentional.

Dave:I’ll tell you what, at our stage in life, empty nest, that’s one of the things that surprised me that goes away. You have to be intentional. With the guys in my life, now they’re all with their grandkids and I’m with my grandkids and it’s like, “Wait, wait, we don’t meet anymore. We don’t talk anymore.” It’s like if you don’t put it on the calendar and make it important—connection is really, really important—it won’t just happen.

Debra:There’s never a stage where it becomes easy. We have to be intentional in all stages.

Dave:Alright, talk savor.

Debra:My favorite.

Dave:Really?

Debra:That one spoke the most to me. It’s about being present in life and enjoying life.

I’m a high efficient, get things done, checklist, to-do list, what’s next, and I like to think ahead and accomplish things.

Ann:I’m like that too.

Debra:But I felt the Lord slow me down in this section and just remind me about the importance of savoring life, savoring what’s today.

I was at a dinner party recently and someone said to me, “Debra, you just released this book, and you’ve got all this stuff going on, what’s next?” And I answered him really quickly and then I spent some time thinking about that question and I really felt like the Lord said to me, “The answer is not what’s next; it’s what’s now? What’s in front of you right now that I have given you to enjoy and to be present in and to savor.”

I have four kids in each season of life. You guys met them earlier. I have a toddler, elementary schooler, middle schooler, and high schooler. There’s a lot going on in these different stages of life, but I want to savor it. And you can’t savor while you’re multitasking. You can’t multitask and savor at the same time to be present with what’s going on around you.

You guys, we only have this moment right now, this second that we’re talking. This is all we are guaranteed. And to be able to be present in it and to be mindful of the gift of relationships, the gift of serving God, the gift of helping people heal in this moment, are we really enjoying the moments that God gives us and treasuring them?

Dave:How do you do it? Because I’m looking at your life and I’m like, you are multitasking, but somehow, you’re not.

Debra:Well, there’s moments of being intentional to savor life. There’s moments, I have a mindfulness practice in the book where, and I do this on a regular basis,—

Ann:Oh good; give it to us.

Debra:—where you focus on all five senses. What’s something I hear right now? And then I say a verse like, “Lord, open my ears so I can hear your words.” And what’s something I hear? Maybe I hear the birds outside and I say, “Thank you God for nature.” Maybe I hear the kids playing in the backyard and I say, “Thank you God for each one of these kids and the blessing they are to me.”

What’s something I smell right now? I smell my neighbor. He is got the smoker and he’s always smoking something. “Thank you, God, for the blessing of good neighbors and good food. Thank you for this sense of smell. Help my life to be a pleasing aroma to You.”

What’s something I see? What’s something I taste? What’s something I feel? And just being present in what God has given me right here and now has been so beautiful. Learning to enjoy life and not worry about the future or have regrets from the past that are so distracting. This is a mind game, Dave. This is a mind game of learning to just be in what’s in front of me right now.

Dave:I thought as you said that, I thought, this kills that.

Debra:Oh, doesn’t it?

Ann:Our phones and devices.

Dave:As you were doing that, my watch went “Buzz”.

Debra:Doesn’t it?

Dave:I’m like, “Oh, there it is.”

Debra:It does.

Dave:I want to look and see what’s that little notification.

Debra:It’s hard to be in the moment when there’s that distraction. Soul Care, as I was writing it, there were so many surprises. I’ve read scripture so many times, but there were so many surprises. Matthew 13, verse 1, I guarantee you’ve never heard this even though you’ve read the Bible multiple times.

Ann:Okay.

Dave:Thirteen, verse one.

Debra:It says Jesus left the house and went and sat by the lake. Period. Look it up. There’s your Bible.

Dave:I believe you.

Debra:Jesus left the house and went and sat by the lake.

Ann:How did you find that verse right there?

Debra:Just reading scripture through the lens of soul care. I was studying the life of Jesus and the gospels. What did he do? Why did he do that? Why is that even in there? And I just imagined him after a long day of ministry in the house with a lot of people and he just went to sit by the lake. I love bodies of water. I love nature.

Ann:Me too.

Debra:And just how it fills you up being in God’s presence. I can just imagine Him just having a moment, breathing in the salty air, and just saying, “Thank you, God.”

Dave:You know what the next verse says?

Debra:Yeah.

Dave:“And great crowds came and gathered around him.”

Debra:Yep. Because He’s Jesus. And eventually people saw Him and came and gathered around Him and that’s when He went into the Parable of the Sower. One of the things He talks about in the Parable of the Sower is being distracted by many things. And I just felt like He came out of this moment where He sat by Himself and just looked at the lake.

But He is Jesus. Obviously, people saw Him, and they gathered around Him. But just think about Jesus went to weddings for the joy of it. Jesus had meals with His disciples for the fellowship. Jesus sat by the lake to just connect with God for the glory of who God is and what He was doing and took moments to savor life and be present in what was happening here and now, even though He had the burden of what was to come.

Ann:For me it’s nature too. I go on a walk, and I purposely don’t take my phone at times. I don’t take headphones so that I can look at what God has created; and then I’ll just praise Him.

One time I was walking, and I was going through this list of all the things that were wrong. I could see all these cracks and stones in the sidewalk where I was walking and I felt this impression, lookup. It was just that simple, just lookup. And I looked up and it was fall in Michigan. I mean it was gorgeous. The reds, the vibrant colors of the trees changing. And I thought, that is so important for me to do. I can get so lost in my to-do list of what’s happening and God’s just saying, “Enjoy.”

Dave:We did it last night. We went for a walk.

Ann:We did.

Dave:And Ann said, as we were leaving the house, “There’s houses we could see when we get around this corner.”

Ann:I said, “Don’t miss it. Don’t miss it.”

Dave:“Look.” I’m like, “What?” “Wait until we get around his corner. You can’t see it right now. There’s a house in our way.” Turn, and she’d look and there’s clouds and the pink, blue; it was gorgeous. She’s like, “To God be the glory.” It was just a five second savor; be fully present.

Debra:And it reminds you of who God is and who you are. Another practice in that section of savor is gratitude and learning to have rhythms of gratitude and thanksgiving and just thanking God. Gratitude changes us.

Ann:Totally.

Debra:It changes our neurology, our chemicals, but it changes our hearts. Just being grateful for all that’s around us and the many gifts, I believe is a way that we really fill up.

Dave:And you can’t have unspeakable joy without gratitude.

Debra:—without gratitude, no.

Dave:You can’t do it. It’s part of the process.

Okay, we have just a few minutes. Tune in.

Debra:Tune in is the section about emotional health and emotional awareness, understanding what’s going on underneath the surface of our lives and the different emotions that we have. I’ve talked about this in other books in a similar way, but the fact that Jesus had all of these different emotions. Biblical scholars identify 39 different emotions that Jesus had and expressed in scripture alone. He responded to the signals of emotion. He didn’t ignore it. He didn’t repress it. He didn’t numb it. He saw the emotion and He responded in a way that honored God.

So our emotions aren’t bad or good. Like we talked about in the very first episode, emotions are a signal. They’re the SOS our body sends us to pay attention. Maybe frustration is actually a signal telling you, “Ann, you should have set some boundaries a while ago. You should have said no to this.” What is the signal and what is it telling me?

And then how do I respond to my signals in a healthy way? Jesus responded to the signal of grief with thanksgiving. Jesus responded to the signal of exhaustion and weariness by stopping to rest. Jesus responded to the signal of anger by moving forward in acts of justice. He responded to the signals His body was sending Him. But so many of us tune them out, ignore them, numb them, pretend they’re not there, think they’re weakness. And so the section of tuning in helps us stay filled because it helps us stay aware of the SOS system and how to respond in healthy ways.

Dave:Wow, that’s deep.

Ann:So good.

Dave:One of the life-changing moments in our marriage, and it wasn’t a moment, it was over a journey, was me tuning into where’s this anger coming from. When I preached on it, and this is how you think, I had an extension cord wrapped around my waist and I said, you got to find it. It’s plugged somewhere and you just—there’s a dashboard. I don’t know why I’m mad. I’m going to get mad at the light that I’m mad at.

Debra:So good.

Dave:Rather than going, “This comes from somewhere.” And when I tuned into that, it changed our marriage. And this was 35 years ago.

Ann:You became a different person.

Dave:Yeah. I realized it was displaced, it was chronic, it was connected to my dad, it was connected to my trauma, and I had never really dealt with it. And then you have to go, “Okay, God, I need to heal. Help me go on this journey to understand it and get free of it.”

Debra:I go into depth in that section about triggers and where they come from, these emotional sore spots, where they might be coming from, how we can go back and heal, like you said, unplug from trauma and plug into truth and what that looks like to go on that journey. So this is why this is different than self-care. This is not just going to shoot some hoops or get a manicure pedicure, a mani-pedi in other words. Dave, you probably don’t know that language.

Dave:I’ve heard it.

Debra:But this is deeper than that. It’s going underneath the surface. It’s practicing healthy rhythms. It’s staying connected to the source of our fullness and partnering with him to practice these things that are going to keep us filled so that we can continue to pour out.

Jesus tells us to be a light that shines. You know that song in second grade, this little light of mine, won’t let Satan blow it out. What is the opposite of a light that shines? It’s a light that’s been burnt out. It’s a light that’s been snuffed and too many people in the church are living with a light that is flickering or has already been snuffed. And I don’t believe that’s how God calls us to live.

Ann:I think a great application too, Debra, would be to buy your book, go through it as a small group because you’ve got a lot of practical things and questions to answer at the end of each chapter. To me, I’m thinking this would be so fun to do with some of my friends.

Debra:I think so too.

Ann:And to talk about it, to go through it, and then we can even apply it to our marriages, to our kids. We could talk through that. Thank you for helping us.

Dave:It’s been great.

Debra:It has been my privilege. My dream would be for every pastor, leader, caregiver, anyone that considers themselves someone who has to pour out, my dream would be for them to get this book into their hands so that they can begin to fill up and pour out from filled places rather than empty places.

Dave:Wow.

Ann:We should do this together.

Dave:I’ll do it.

Ann:Okay.

Dave:I’m in.

Debra:Alright, I’ll check in with you this time six months from now, Dave.

Ann:Yes!

Debra:We’ll do a Soul Care check in.

Ann:Yes!

Dave:I would be totally, I’d welcome that.

Debra:Start with your weak point, okay. Start with your weak point and work from there.

Ann:Okay.

This is FamilyLife Today. We’re Dave and Ann Wilson, and we’ve been talking with Debra Fileta, and her book Soul Care. And you can get a copy now at FamilyLifeToday.com, in the show notes, or feel free to call 800-358-6329. Again, the number is 800-F as in Family, L as in Life, and then the word TODAY.

Dave:And we just wanted to stop and say thanks to all of you who have given financially to our yearend gift giving matching campaign. We cannot do this ministry without you. You are our partners and at yearend, you decided to jump in and be a partner with us, and we appreciate that. Thank you so much.

Ann:We would love to pray for you. And we even have a team at FamilyLife that can pray for you. Just go to FamilyLife.com/Prayforme.

Dave:Now, coming up next week, we’ll be talking with Ron and Nan Deal about their new book, The Mindful Marriage. And I’m telling you what, this is going to transform your marriage. I am not overpromising; this is going to happen, and that’s next week. So we’ll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

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