The Art of Soul Care: Debra Fileta

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The Art of Soul Care

Guest:Debra Fileta

From the series:The Art of Soul Care (Day 1 of 3)

Air date:January 1, 2025

Debra:The Bible says that Jesus came to give us life abundant. And other translations say, “…life in all of its fullness.” Fullness: “Do we resonate with that?” It is the enemy who comes to steal, kill, and destroy fullness. I want life in all of its fullness.

Ann:Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Ann Wilson.

Dave:And I’m Dave Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.

Ann: This is FamilyLife Today!

Ann: I am really excited about today. Do you know why?

Dave:One of your favorite authors, in all the world, is sitting across from us right now; that’s my guess.

Ann:It’s our personal therapist, basically. And I always get this little tickle inside of me because—

Dave:Because you think she’s going to do therapy on me?

Ann:No, it’s on both of us! But sometimes, it’s exciting to me when somebody else enters into your lives, and sees you in a whole different way of the areas you know that are tucked away—maybe, you haven’t dealt with—but she sees them, and knows them, and can pull them out. And that’s what Debra Fileta does for us.

Dave:I still think you’re excited that she’s going to fix me; that’s what I think.

Ann:No!

Dave:Debra Fileta is sitting over there. Welcome, Debra. I don’t know what you think when you come in here.

Debra: “Let’s go, Dave.”

Dave:What do you think when you come in here? Do you think, “I need to fix this couple”?

Debra:I love the two of you so much and your willingness to be fixed. Dave, you always let me in.

Dave:Oh, yeah.

Ann:He does!

Debra:And we have these really important conversations that I think, not only help us around this table, but everybody else who can relate to some of these struggles and pain-points that we carry. I’m excited to be here; I love your authenticity, and I’m just looking forward to our conversation today.

Dave:Well, we’re going to be completely fake today—no problems; we’re wonderful—especially, me. I don’t know if there’s any problems in our marriage; but if there are, it’s her, not me.

Debra: Yes, we should turn the table on Ann this time.

Dave: Isn’t that what we all think?

Ann:Yeah, I’d be happy to.

Dave:One of the things you can tell our listeners, because a lot of them know you; but I was thinking therapist, writer, speaker, stay-at-home mom,—

Ann:—mom, homeschooler.

Dave:—homeschooler teacher. I mean, of all the things you do, what dominates? Is it a balance of all those?

Debra:I think—this sounds so spiritual—but my love for the Lord, my walk with Jesus, my relationship with Him dominates. Everything that I do has to flow from that place. And I’m not just saying that to be over-spiritual; I’m saying that because, when I get that wrong, everything’s wrong. When I get that off, everything’s off.

Ann:If we just stop today, and that’s all that was said, it would be the most important thing for every one of us. And to ask that question: “Is that the most important thing? Is He the most important thing in my life?” I knew she was going to say that; because I’ve spent time with Debra, even walking from our studio to our lunch—and that’s always our conversation—has been Jesus. And do you think Jesus, and your walk with Him, is that what centers you in all those other areas?

Debra:For sure, and makes them meaningful: “You think that writing a seventh book is going to feel amazing,” “You think that getting on a bestseller list, or seeing someone reading your book at the airport is going to feel amazing,”—and you have all these goals and dreams; and then, you get there—that felt good for a minute. All these things feel good for a minute; and then, it’s onto the next thing. So to me, Christ is what keeps all of this mattering; [He] is what makes it matter. This is what brings foundation and meaning to all of it. Otherwise, it’s really not that big of a deal.

Ann:Yeah, which really makes sense with your new book, Soul Care.

Dave:Well, do you actually say Soul Plus Care?

Debra:No,—

Dave:Or is that just—

Debra:—Soul Care. The plus sign kind of symbolizes our need for medical attention: the need to take care of ourselves. I think, sometimes, we forget that. We run on empty, and we’re burnt out; and we have too much on our plate, and we get to a breaking point.

Soul Care is about identifying the check-engine signs and signals. When you’re driving a car, and you see all the “Check Engine” lights start going off: “What do you do?—Do you judge the car?—”Why is this car so weak?! What’s wrong with this car?!” and then, just keep driving? That would be unwise; because eventually, when you keep ignoring the signs, the car is going to break down. But we do that to ourselves—there’s all these signs and signals that something’s off: frustration, irritability, fatigue—whatever it is—signs of burnout; but we just keep pushing through. We judge ourselves; but eventually, something will break. And this is why soul care is so important.

Dave:Well, it’s interesting, when you use that car analogy; because my first thought—which is usually wrong with the flashing light on my dashboard—is: “There’s something wrong with the light.” I’m not kidding; I just keep driving. It’s like, “Oh, that’s probably, I hit it; there’s nothing wrong.” I don’t usually think it’s telling me something. Don’t we do the same thing with our lives?

Debra:A lot of people do, and we just keep pushing through. We think something is wrong with the signal rather than: “What is the signal telling me?” and “Let me pay attention; and then, respond to the signal.”

Ann:It makes me laugh; because we’ve had fights about the engine light being on, because I get a little anxious: “We better get that fixed.” And Dave can sometimes: “It’s fine.”

Debra: I can see it now “It’s fine.”

Ann:But we do that with this area, where one person might think, “There’s something wrong,” and the other person can just be—maybe, the person who’s conflict-avoidant—can say, “It’s fine.”

Dave:She’s looking at me, because I do that.

Ann: No, I think we can all do that at times.

But Debra, you said Soul Care is really a prequel to your other books. What do you mean by that?

Debra:Well, I think many people can relate to struggles in mental and emotional health. Many people can relate to depression and anxiety, and all of the struggles that come with that. Many people can relate to trauma and having to deal with some of those things.

But all people can relate to the feeling of being empty, at some point in life; of being burnt out; of running on empty; of feeling like, “I have too much on my plate; I’m over committed.” How many of us can relate to that?—especially, in Western culture; especially, in the church.

This is the book that comes before the breakdown—and “This is how we keep ourselves in a healthy space by practicing the six rhythms of soul care,”—and these aren’t just rhythms that I made up. These are rhythms that are grounded in psychology and counseling, but the rhythms that I believe were modeled by the life of Jesus Himself—Jesus Himself, who is fully God; yet, fully man—and He honored His human capacity.

I think the reason He honored His capacity is to show us what it looks like to honor ours—to need to run to the Father, and to need to be filled up so that we can continue to pour out in the ways that God has called us to—Jesus poured out a lot during His time here on earth. But you can’t pour out if you’re not filled up. I think that’s the premise of this whole message is: “How can you be filled the way that God calls us to be filled?”

Ann:Do you think this is different?—soul care; and we’re looking at Jesus’ life as an example—that it’s different from the word that we hear, so often now, “self-care”?—where I think, as believers: “Is that good?” “Is that bad?” “Is that selfish?” “Is it different?”

Debra:I think it is, in the sense that, when I think of the definition of self-care, I think of these one-time practices, these onetime exercises that help us feel better when we’re struggling. The things that’ll make you feel better; the world today defines “self-care,”—like getting a mani-pedi; or taking a warm bath—and those aren’t wrong.

Dave:You got to talk guy stuff, too. I’m like, “What are those?” And I get it.

Ann:Golfing.

Dave:—golfing.

Debra:Going to hit a couple balls on the golf course, whatever y’all do.

Dave:I’ve never had a mani-pedi. You know what? I probably should! Anyway, go ahead.

Debra:But think about those things that we go to, when we’re not feeling good. “What is the first thing that comes to your mind that you do when you’re kind of feeling blah, down, tired?”—scrolling, or buying something; shopping on my app, eating, going to food, doing addictive things: “Get yourself off the edge to using substances.”

Ann: —to almost mask.

Debra: We do these things to mask what we’re feeling. When I think of self-care,

I think of superficial actions. It’s like a one-time act—it’s going to make me

feel good in the moment—but it’s not deep enough; it’s not long-lasting.

Ann:I remember going through—we were traveling so much—I was thinking, “I need to get a massage once a month.” So that was looking at just physically. But to look at the soul: it’s more than just the physical.

Debra:And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the massage.

Ann:Right; right.

Dave:It depends on how much it costs.

Dave:Getting a massage—it depends on the cost/the budget—“But is that the solution?”

Ann:Right.

Debra:No, it’s not the solution. I have to get underneath the surface, and practice rhythms that are going to get to my soul,—

Ann:That’s good.

Debra: —not just myself, a little bit deeper; because I have to change things underneath the surface if I want things to actually change. Soul care helps us get to some of those roots underneath the surface, and start to change things on the inside.

Dave:Alright; so if you’re listening right now, and you’re like, “Where do I start?”—if I’m inspired right now? I think I’ve been doing more self-care than real soul care. Soul care feels deeper; it feels more lasting. Where would I start?

Debra:Well, first of all, you don’t start by jumping into the rhythms. I know Dave; you’re ready to go.

Dave: “Let’s go!”

Debra:“Let’s do this. What are the six rhythms?”

Dave:“Tell me something to do, yes.”

Debra:But I think what’s most beneficial for us is to get to the root of our “Why?” “Why do I struggle with this to begin with? Why do I find myself in a cycle of burnout?” “Why do I have a hard time saying, ‘No’? Why do I say, ‘Yes,’ to everything?” “Why do I feel like I’m spread too thin? Why do I get to the end of my day, and I am done?!”

Ann:You’re totally describing our lives right now.

Dave:I was thinking the exact same thing.

Debra:And so the answer is:—

Dave:Tell us why!—

Debra:—“Getting to the root of the ‘Why?’ first.”

So here’s what’s interesting: you guys have had me on enough that I always believe that it’s tied to our childhood, our early years, our developmental years. The roots begin there. I’m doing a “Soul Care” series on my podcast right now, where I’m having people come on and talk about one of the rhythms that they’re struggling with the most.

And your podcast is called—

Debra:It’s called Talk to Me: the Debra Fileta Podcast. We do these on-air

counseling sessions.

Dave:Yeah, you did us.

Debra:Yeah, you guys were on; we dug a little deep.

It’s been fascinating: three personality types have come to the surface of the people who are struggling the most with soul care, people who are struggling the most with identifying their needs.

The first are the firstborns: people who, just by birth order, were born first. They have a higher level of responsibility for the people around them. They feel like it is their job to fix things, to make everybody around them happy, to do the right thing, to be responsible for everybody else’s needs. And so they kind of put themselves on the back burner to be people-pleasers. We always say—in my counseling group—“Behind every people-pleaser was once a parent-pleaser.” And so it’s those kids, who are now adults, who: “Okay, what does everybody else need?”

The second personality type—

Ann:Wait; I have to find out: “Where are you in the birth order?”

Debra:Firstborn!

Ann:You’re firstborn.

Debra:And my book is dedicated to my firstborn child; because I believe this is something that we have to really face, as firstborns: “What are my underlying beliefs?” “Why do I do this?” “Why do I feel like I have to fill in the gaps for everybody?” and “Is that accurate?” I would say, “No, it’s not; because where is God’s role in this? He fills in the gaps.” We’re just: “Let’s get to the root of these underlying, unhealthy belief systems. The firstborns carry some of those.”

And then, the next group were people who come from a home, where there was some sort of chaos. There was somebody in the home who had high needs:

So maybe, it was someone with a disability.

Maybe, it was a parent who was an alcoholic.

Maybe, there was some conflict—major fighting in the home—and there was high needs elsewhere.

Maybe, there was a sibling, who was really disobedient or dysfunctional, and they had high needs.

So I become the low-needs person in order to keep equilibrium: “There’s so many other high needs here; what am I going to do with my own high needs? I’m going to pretend they don’t exist; I’m going to put them on the back burner; or I’m just going to deal with my needs myself, and just kind of shut them down.” That’s the second group of people who have a hard time feeling their needs.

The third group were people who had unavailable parents. I heard the word, “frazzled mom” many times in my counseling sessions: “Mom was so frazzled and stressed that she didn’t have an awareness of what I needed.” And so what do you do with your needs when mom is frazzled, or dad is drunk, or unavailable, or a workaholic? If one of the parents is overly-stressed, the other parent is unavailable, withdrawn; what do you do with your needs as a kid? You pretend they don’t exist; you hide them; you just put them on the back burner.

It was really fascinating to see those three personality types. And some

people, they were all three: “I had this”; “I had this”; “And I had this.” But

even just one of those things—and this is just a little cross-section—

of some of the ways that we become people, who have a very low

awareness of what we need.

Ann:I think every listener probably did this, too: you’re identifying things in yourself; you’re looking at your background—maybe, your spouse or kids—that’s what I was doing. I was going through that for both of us and identifying areas for both of us. Did you do that?

Dave:Oh, for sure!

Debra:Neither of you are firstborns, right?

Ann:Both, the youngest.

Debra:Babies in the family. That, in and of itself, has a dynamic. Depending on how much chaos was in the home, and where you fell [in birth order], and felt like: “My needs: is there room for my needs? If not, what do I do with them?” All that shapes you.

Ann:And I was identifying with having a sister at the time—we didn’t know it, but a lot of sexual abuse—high needs, very dramatic, always crying, yelling; a lot of things going on. I can remember, probably being seven years old, crying as I’m listening to the conflict in the house, saying, “I will never be like that”; in other words, “I will never be that needy,” “I will never be that dramatic,” “I will never do that to my parents.” I was identifying like, “Oh, so I just put all my needs aside, and I will be the good girl.”

Debra:Exactly; “the good girl.” I can’t even tell you how many “good kids” came up on the podcast because I had so many submissions/video submissions of people who wanted to come talk. It was amazing that so many of them were “the good kid.” It’s like, “I’m the good kid; I don’t have needs.”

Ann:They don’t matter; other people are more important: “I’ll make them happy,” “I want my parents to be happy with me.”

Debra:Exactly; and then, we just carry that through life and the people around us until we break down. This doesn’t last indefinitely—you cannot do this forever—because something has to break, at some point, if you’re neglecting yourself.

Another thing: I think Christians worry about being selfish: “I don’t want to be selfish. I don’t want to focus on me.” But self-obsession is not what we’re talking about here. What’s interesting to me is self-neglect also has the word, “self,” in it; because when you neglect yourself, you’re so empty and depleted. Think about a time in your life, where you were just feeling at the lowest point—empty, depleted—”I got nothing left.” The only person you can think of in that moment is yourself, and how awful you feel, and what everyone has done to you—

Ann:You become the victim.

Debra:—the center of your world. In an attempt to not be selfish, we self-neglect, which leads us to a very selfish place. I don’t think that’s the biblical model: “Just self-neglect, because I don’t want to be selfish.”

Dave:And yet, often, that’s what you hear preached—again, I’m a pastor; so I’m not ripping on pastors—but you read the Bible, and you think: “It’s not about me. Give my life away to serve others,” “Lay down my life for others.”

Ann:—which is all good.

Debra:True.

Dave:And so when you think about yourself, there’s often a reaction by the Christ-follower, like: “No, no, no. I’m not supposed to think about myself,”

Ann:“Die to yourself.”

Dave:“I don’t matter”; and so you lay down yourself, constantly; and then, you are empty and depleted.

Debra:Right.

Ann:—and frazzled, and frustrated, and mean; and so many things.

Dave:So what do you say to a person that says that? I mean, you already said it, I guess: “Self is…”

Debra:Well, let’s just look biblically—I think the Bible says that Jesus came to give us life abundant. And other translations say, “…life in all of its fullness.” Fullness: “Do we resonate with that?” It is the enemy who comes to steal, kill, and destroy; so that’s one passage—

Ann:—John 10:10.

Debra:—that I’m clinging to: “fullness”; “I want life in all of its fullness.”

Another one that comes to mind is in 3 John, the first chapter, where it talks about: “I want you to prosper in every way, even as your soul prospers.” “Is your soul prospering? What does that look like?” I think, also, when the disciples ask Jesus: “What is the greatest commandment?” and He says, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength; and love your neighbor as yourself.”

I know there’s some controversy with that verse, and what it means; but I believe Jesus is bringing balance to this idea:

Jesus could have said: “Love your neighbor; do not love yourself.”

He could have said: “Love your neighbor; and then, I want you to love them more than yourself.”

But He didn’t say that. He could have said so many things. And He said, “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.” I believe the assumption there is that we are going to be good at loving ourselves.

The problem is: trauma enters the picture; Satan enters the picture; lies enter the picture. And so many people come from a trauma background, where they don’t love themselves. They’re filled with shame; they’re filled with hatred; and they self-sabotage; and they bring everybody, around them, down with them.

I believe that Jesus wants us to keep this balance of: “You have to care for yourself. You have to honor this temple.” Jesus says that we are the temple. How seriously do we take that?—“If I am His temple, how do I treat the temple?” Forget calling it that yourself if that bothers you. You are His temple. And this is a serious call: to take care of ourselves, physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, in every way to honor ourselves so that He can live here and dwell with us. I think this is a lot more serious than we sometimes take it.

Ann:Me, too.

Dave:When you talked about what you did, a little earlier, about: “Here’s the people that break down in their family of origin stuff.” I think the listeners are still stuck there. They’re like, “That was me! I’m not sure I identified that until I just heard Debra say that.” I came from this family—I mean, my story—I had two alcoholic parents.

Debra:—a lot of chaos.

Dave:I was [their] third, and I became the super child. I was gifted athletically, gifted musically. I ran to that; and it was like, “I’m not going to be a problem for Mom and Dad, who are drunk, and they’re getting divorced; and my brother just died. I’m just going to go out and win. I’m going to become great.” And I’ve still done that, everywhere I go; I’m like: “Perform,” “Perform,” “Perform.” I didn’t know, until I was almost 60 years old, I was living like that.

And I think, what you said—if there’s a 20-, 25-, 30-, 40-year-old listening, “There’s good news for you. You’re way ahead of the game to understand that.” But their question—and you know this; you do this every day—is like, “Okay, so if I identify I’m one of those, and I see the warning light flashing a little bit; and now, I’m connecting some things: “How do I care for my soul?” What would you say they should do next?

Debra:Well, we will get into the six rhythms eventually; but I would say the first thing you need to do is really face and confront some of those unhealthy belief systems that cause you to do what you’re doing—those things that tell you: “You have to be the one to fix everything,” “You have to be the one to fill in the gaps,” “It is your responsibility to care for everybody else and their emotional needs. If you don’t do it, nobody else will.” All of these belief systems are rooted in our trauma; they’re not rooted in God’s truth. And so we have to take a period of time to confront some of that trauma.

Ann:“Would you write them down?” “Would you have somebody—they’re identifying it—would they journal it? Would they talk about it?”

Debra:I think that’s a great place to start to face some of those unhealthy belief systems that keep me going: If I ask you, “Why do you have a hard time saying, ‘No?’”; [response] “I don’t want to disappoint people; I want people to like me.” “Where did that begin? Where did that belief system begin? When did you first hear that?”

I was on a podcast recently; and the woman said something so profound, from Genesis. When Adam and Eve sinned, God walked into the Garden; and He said, “Who told you that? Who told you that? Where did that belief system begin?” Because that’s where we got to start.

For some people, this will require some counseling; it’ll require the help of a counselor, to say, “Let’s start mapping out your past, and making some connections, and digging up some of these unhealthy belief systems that came from trauma; and start bolting them with the light of God’s truth. Sort of attacking them.

Ann:The person who’s saying, “Oh, this is ridiculous. This is this counseling—

Dave:—”psycho—

Ann:—”jargon; I just need Jesus.” What would you say to that?

“

Debra:I would assume, if they’d been listening to your podcast long enough, they probably wouldn’t be here still after all that you guys talk about. But if this is their first time listening, and they think that all they need is Jesus, the answer is: “Yes, all you need is Jesus! But Jesus wants to help you shine a light on some of these places and take you deeper. We can’t do this without Him.” We absolutely can’t do this without Him. He wants us to be healed and whole, as the church; and He’s inviting us to go there with Him.

Dave:And by the way—obviously, you’re not saying it—but if somebody needs a good counselor,—

Ann:You have a whole network.

Debra:I do; I’m grateful. I have a team of amazing vetted Christian-trained counselors, who would love to walk by your side. It’s called the Debra Fileta Counselors Network, and it’s just been amazing to see people come and heal.

Dave:And we can help, as well. If you want to reach out to FamilyLife, just go to FamilyLife.com/PrayForMe. We will not only pray for you, but we can also connect you in different ways as well; and maybe, to your network. I’ve literally gone on there several times: “I’m going to sign up somebody”; and you’re like, “You should, Dave.”

Debra:Yeah, we welcome it. Imagine if the church could be healed in whole. I really believe that begins with us, as individuals.

Ann:Yes; thanks, Debra.

Ann:This is FamilyLife Today, and we’re Dave and Ann Wilson. We’ve been talking with our guest, Debra Fileta.

Dave:Yeah, her book, Soul Care: Life-Giving Rhythms, is awesome. I mean, what a great conversation that was. And you can get a copy, right now, if you go online to FamilyLifeToday.com, which is in the show notes. Or feel free to call us; the number is 800-358-6329. Again, the number is 800-F as in Family, L as in Life, and then the word, TODAY.

Ann:Oh, here’s my question: “Do you follow us on social media?” If not, you can head over to Instagram at FamilyLife Insta; or you can find us on Facebook FamilyLife for more regular encouragement; because we want to encourage you.

Dave:And we just want to stop, and say, “Thank you to all of you who gave a financial gift at our year-end gift match.” Wow! You don’t understand this; you make this ministry happen. We cannot do it without you, and we just want you to know we appreciate you and your gift. And gifts are still coming in; thank you so much for helping us.

Ann:Now, coming up tomorrow, we’ll be talking, again, with Debra Fileta about how soul care is not a luxury, but a necessity, for living a healthy life. That’s tomorrow.

Dave:We’ll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

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